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SO WITH THAT, WE'LL[B. Discussion - Pump and Haul Permit Request of Front Royal Self Storage - Matt Wendling, Planning Director *This meeting was joined in progress*]
JUST JUMP TO ITEM B AND IT'S A DISCUSSION FOR THE PUMP AND HAUL PERMIT REQUESTS OF FRONT, FRONT ROYAL SELF STORAGE.GOOD EVENING, MADAM CHAIRMAN AND, AND, UH, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.
UM, I HAVE TODAY WITH US, UH, MR. DAVID PRINCE.
UH, THE AGENT FOR FRONT ROYAL SELF STORAGE, UH, LLC.
HE'S COME TO DISCUSS THEIR REQUEST FOR A PUMP AND HAUL, UM, FOR THE SITE AT 89 88 97 WINCHESTER ROAD, WHICH IS THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT FOR THE FRONT ROYAL SELF STORAGE FACILITY.
UM, I WILL LET HIM KIND OF GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF A BACKGROUND ON, UH, WHAT HAS BROUGHT THEM TO THIS POINT AT THIS, UH, TIME.
BUT, UM, JUST AS AN OVERVIEW FOR PUMPING HALLS, PUMPING HALLS ARE BASICALLY ISSUED BECAUSE THERE'S REALLY NO OTHER OPTION FOR, UH, GETTING RID OF WASTE FOR A SITE, WHETHER IT BE IN, IN THIS CASE IT'S UNIQUE CUZ IT IS A COMMERCIAL SITE, BUT MOST OF THE TIME IT'S A RESIDENTIAL SITE.
UM, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT WILL USUALLY ISSUE A DENIAL LETTER FOR A SEPTIC SYSTEM.
AND THEN THAT, UH, PERSON WHO OWNS THAT PROPERTY WOULD COME TO US, UM, AND REQUEST THIS THROUGH THE BOARD.
PART OF THE REQUEST IN THE POST-APPROVAL PROCESS REQUIRES THAT THE APPLICANT HAS A CONTRACT WITH A SEPTIC SERVICING COMPANY.
AND THAT SEPTIC SERVICING COMPANY, UH, BASICALLY COMES OUT PERIODICALLY.
USUALLY IT'S ON AN ON-CALL BASIS.
WHEN THOSE, THOSE TANKS ARE FILLED UP, THEY U THEY'LL, OR 75% FULL, THEY USUALLY HAVE AN ALARM ON 'EM.
THAT'S THAT TIME THAT, UH, THAT PROPERTY OWNER, IN THIS CASE, IT WOULD BE FRONT ROYAL CELL STORAGE, WOULD CALL THE CONTRACTOR COME OUT AND, AND PUMP THOSE TANKS OUT.
SO, UM, WITH THAT I WOULD REALLY, I'D LIKE TO BRING MR. PRINCE UP AND, UH, HE CAN IDENTIFY HIMSELF AND THEN GIVE YOU A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON WHY THEY'RE, WHY HE'S COMING TO YOU TONIGHT.
I'M WITH FRONT ROYAL SELF STORAGE.
UM, WE, UM, OUR ORIGINAL PLANS WERE TO USE PUBLIC SEWER AND WATER.
UH, AND, UH, AND, AND THAT EXTENDS UP 5 22 AND ENDS AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE GMC DEALERSHIP.
SO OUR PLANS WERE TO, AND THERE'S A UTILITY EASEMENT THROUGH THE PARKING LOT OF THE GMC DEALERSHIP.
WE WERE GOING TO EXTEND THE WATER AND THE SEWER TO OUR PROPERTY ACROSS THE, THE, THERE'S ATOMIC EDISON POWER LINES, AND THEN INTO OUR PROPERTY.
UM, THE PROBLEM IS, IS, YOU KNOW, WE STARTED 1ST OF DECEMBER WITH, UM, DIGGING TO, YOU KNOW, CUZ UH, THE, THE SEWER HAS TO BE PRETTY DEEP.
WE STARTED DIGGING IN THE 1ST OF DECEMBER AND WENT TO ABOUT THE SECOND OR THIRD WEEK OF JANUARY BEFORE WE, WE DECIDED THAT WE JUST, YOU KNOW, WE HAD 40 FEET OF PIPE IN THE GROUND.
UH, AND IT JUST WAS NOT GOING WELL AT ALL.
I KNOW THE GMC DEALERSHIP WAS UPSET, YOU KNOW, WE JUST, YOU KNOW, WE JUST COULDN'T, UH, GET THIS THING IN IN PLACE.
SO WE, WE, WELL, WELL, YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN WE DO? UM, SO WE START LOOKING AT A FORCE MAIN SYSTEM AND THE POSSIBILITY OF PUTTING A FORCE MAIN TO PUMP, UH, THE SEWAGE UP AND INTO THE PUBLIC SEWER SYSTEM AT THAT SOUTHEAST SOUTHWEST CORNER OF, OF, UH, THE GMC LOT.
UM, THAT'S PROBLEMATIC AS WELL.
Y UH, THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL WILL NOT ALLOW A PRIVATE, UH, FORCE MAIN SEWER SYSTEM IN THEIR PUBLIC UTILITY EASEMENT AND VDOT WILL NOT ALLOW THAT A, A PRIVATE SYSTEM IN THEIR RIGHT OF WAY.
SO WHAT WE HAD PLANNED BY BRINGING THE PUBLIC SEWER AND WATER, UH, THROUGH THE EASEMENT DOWN THE RIGHT OF WAY INTO OUR PROPERTY, WOULD JUST NO LONGER, UH, AN OPTION FOR US.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE JUST AT OUR WITS END TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE CAN DO TO, TO TAKE CARE OF IT.
YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE FEEL COMFORTABLE ABOUT THE WATER CAUSE THE WATER'S NOT AS DEEP AS THE SEWER.
AND WE, AND WE KNOW WE HAVE TO, WE'LL ENCOUNTER SOME ROCK, BUT WE THINK WE CAN BRING THAT DOWN THROUGH THE, THE UTILITIES THE RIGHT OF WAY AND GET THAT INTO THE BUILDING JUST FINE.
SO NOW WE'VE GOTTA DEAL WITH THE SEWAGE, YOU KNOW, HOW CAN WE GET RID OF THE SEWAGE AND, AND, YOU KNOW, IN A, THE RIGHT WAY.
UM, THE, UM, THE ONLY OPTION THAT WE FOUND WAS, YOU KNOW, WE, WE STARTED LOOKING AT THE OLD, YOU KNOW, AN OLD SEPTIC SYSTEM, A DRAIN FILLED AND SEPTIC TANK AND SO FORTH.
UH, THERE'S REALLY, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS, THIS PROPERTY IS JUST FULL OF ROCK AND, AND I JUST DOUBT THERE'S ANY SPOT ANYWHERE THAT WE CAN HAVE, UH, PERK SITE.
UM, AND, AND, UH, AS WE WERE LOOKING INTO IT, I, I CONTACTED GREG SMITH OF, OF WARREN COUNTY HEALTH TO SEE WHAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO GET, UH, A PERMIT FOR A SEPTIC SYSTEM.
AND, AND, UH, WE TALKED IT THROUGH AND HE SAID, WELL, YOU GOTTA, YOU KNOW, SEE IF YOU CAN FIND A DRAIN FILLED.
AND, UH, SO, SO, UH, WE REACHED OUT TO, UH, UH, AN OSC
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AND, AND, AND LO AND BEHOLD WE FOUND SOMEONE WHO'D ACTUALLY HAD, HAD DEALT WITH THIS PROPERTY 10 YEARS AGO AND THEY COULDN'T FIND A DRAIN SITE 10 YEARS AGO.AND ALL WE'VE DONE SINCE THEN IS, IS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA PAVE A LOT, YOU KNOW, LARGE PORTION OF IT, PUT BUILDINGS UP AND SO FORTH.
SO, SO WE'RE CONFIDENT THAT WE CANNOT FIND A DRAIN FIELD ON THIS, ON THIS PROPERTY.
UH, SO WE, WE JUST ASK THAT WE BE PERMITTED TO PUT A, A PUMP AND HAUL SYSTEM IN.
UH, IT WOULD, YOU KNOW, IT HASN'T BEEN DESIGNED YET CUZ WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE CAN DO IT, AND THEN WE'LL PUT IT INTO DESIGN TO MAKE SURE WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WE, WE MEET ALL THE CRITERIA AND WE'LL GET HEALTH DEPARTMENT APPROVED AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.
UM, THE, UM, UM, REALLY THAT'S, THAT'S ABOUT IT.
I, I JUST, UH, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO, YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE THE BUILDING'S GOING UP.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE DRIVEN UP 5 22, BUT THE BUILDING IS GOING UP.
WE'RE, WE'RE MOVING, YOU KNOW, TOWARDS, UH, AN OPENING DATE, BUT WE HAVE, HAVE NO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE, WITH THE SEWAGE.
SO, UH, WE'RE JUST HOPING THAT, UH, YOU GUYS WOULD ALLOW US TO, TO PUT A PUMPING HAUL SYSTEM IN.
AND, UM, UM, AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT.
AND JUST TO ADD TO THAT, UM, MR. MURPHY, WHO IS, UH, UH, WORKS WITH, UH, MR. PRINCE HERE, HE IS THE DEVELOPER.
BASICALLY USAGE IS GONNA BE TWO TOILETS AND, AND HAND WASH SINKS, BOTH WITH AUTOMATIC CUTOFF FAUCETS, NO PEPPER TOWELS, AIR DRY AIR DRYERS FOR HA UH, HANDS NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES, ONE PER DAY, UH, OCCASIONAL CUSTOMER USAGE USAGE LESS THAN FIVE TIMES PER DAY.
THERE ARE HOURS OF OPERATION ARE GONNA BE NINE TO 1800, WHATEVER THAT SIX, 6:00 PM GOTTA GO BACK AND THEN MAYBE CLOSED ON SUNDAY.
SO IT'S, IT'S REALLY A MINIMAL AMOUNT OF USAGE, LESS THAN A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING.
AND THE PREVIOUS, UH, PUMPING HAUL SERVED, UH, A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING THAT WAS BEING RENTED OUT ON THAT SITE.
AND THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY, UH, WE, WE HAD TO CITE 'EM AT ONE POINT IN TIME BECAUSE THEY WERE, WERE DRAINING THEIR, UH, WASHING MACHINE OUT ONTO THE, ONTO THE GROUND.
SO, UM, AND THEY, YOU KNOW, SO THEY HAD TO HAVE THAT SEPTIC COMPANY COMING OUT THERE PERIODICALLY EVERY THREE MONTHS TO FOUR MONTHS, YOU KNOW, AND THAT WAS A, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THAT HOUSE.
SO THIS, THIS IS MUCH LESS USAGE FOR, UH, A STANDARD PUMPER HALL.
AND AGAIN, THEY'LL HAVE IT, UH, ENGINEERED TO THEIR DESIGN, THEIR REQUIREMENTS, AND THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT WOULD REVIEW THAT AND THEN ISSUE THE, THE CONSTRUCTION PERMIT FOR THAT AND HAVE THAT ISSUED.
UH, THE ONLY ITEM THAT WE, I, I CAN'T GIVE YOU INFORMATION ON RIGHT NOW IS, UH, AND I'VE TRIED TO REACH OUT TO MR. BOYER FROM THE TOWN, IS THAT IF THEY HAVING ANY, ANY ISSUES WITH THAT, UH, AS FAR AS THE TOWN, UM, BECAUSE THIS IS A COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL SITE, COMMERCIAL SITE, AND WE JUST, UH, WOULD FEEL BETTER THAT THE TOWN SAID OKAY.
AS LONG AS THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT HAD, IT MEETS ALL THE CRITERIA.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY PROBABLY BEFORE WE BRING THAT TO YOU FOR YOUR APPROVAL ON A, AND IT'D BE ON A CONSENT ITEM, UH, I CAN GET AN EMAIL FROM HIM OR SOMETHING IN WRITING JUST TO SAY THAT THEY HAVE NO PROBLEMS, AND WE'LL INCLUDE THAT IN THAT PACKET FOR YOU.
SO, UM, THAT'S THE ONLY JUST TO, I WANNA JUMP IN FOR YOU.
AND, BUT, UM, IT, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT TYPICALLY THE COUNTY'S POLICY HAS NOT BEEN TO HAVE PUMPING HALLS FOR ANY COMMERCIAL BUSINESS THAT'S BEEN IN OUR POLICY.
HOWEVER, I, I THINK THAT IF THE BOARD IS TO APPROVE THIS AT WHATEVER MEETING, THAT THEY DO NOTE THAT IT IS A USE THAT IS SO MINIMAL AND THAT THIS SITE HAS NOT PERKED IN THE PAST.
SO THAT IS A UNIQUE HARDSHIP TO THE SITE.
I THINK IT'D BE IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THE HARDSHIPS OF THIS LOT SPECIFICALLY.
SO IN THE FUTURE, YOU KNOW, NOT ALL COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES WOULD FALL UNDER THAT BECAUSE THAT HAS, TYPICALLY WE HAVE THE POLICY IN WRITING FOR NO COMMERCIAL.
SO I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE GOOD TO, I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN FOR THIS SITE, AND I THINK THAT THIS SITE, I MEAN, IF YOU SAW THE PICTURE OF THE ROCK AT THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW COMMITTEE, THAT'S THE SITE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
SO I DON'T, I THINK WITH THE MINIMAL AMOUNT, I MEAN, THIS IS PROBABLY LESS THAN THE RESIDENTS THAT WAS THERE, HONESTLY.
UM, BUT I THINK IT'D BE IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT, AND WE ALSO NEED TO MAKE SURE WITH THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL, THAT THEY DON'T NEED THE WATER AND SEWER BOTH HOOKED UP, THAT THEY WOULD APPROVE JUST HAVING THE WATER AND NOT THE SEWER, BECAUSE THAT'S COME UP BEFORE IN THE PAST WITH SOME OTHER BUSINESSES ON THAT.
AND, AND WE HAVE BEEN, UH, UH, COMMUNICATING WITH ROBBIE BOYER AT THE TOWN ABOUT THIS.
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ARE.UH, HE HASN'T RAISED OBJECTION ABOUT IT.
BUT WE HAVEN'T ASKED SPECIFICALLY.
YOU KNOW, WILL YOU SIGN OFF ON, ON THIS.
BUT HE KNOWS THAT WE, AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE JUST GOT APPROVAL, UH, TO REMOVE, WE SUBMITTED PLANS THAT REMOVED THE FORCE MAIN OFF OF HIM BECAUSE HE, WE COULDN'T GET THAT TO BE APPROVED.
SO WE JUST WENT THROUGH IT, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY WAITING FOR, HE, HE, HE, HE'S HAS TOLD US THAT IT'S OKAY, AND THEN WE JUST NEED TO GET THE DRAWINGS IN HIS HAND SO HE CAN SIGN OFF ON THEM, BUT OKAY.
THEN WE'LL GET THAT BEFORE THE NEXT BOARD MEETING OR WHEN, WHEN YOU PUT IT ON THE REGULAR AGENDA.
NUMBER ONE, THE TOWN TYPICALLY CHARGES FOR SEWER, EVEN IF YOU DON'T USE IT, ISN'T THAT THEIR STANDARD IS LIKE, SO IF YOU TAKE IN WATER, THEN THEY'RE GONNA CHARGE YOU FOR THE SAME OUTPUT THAT YOU TOOK IN TO, TO DUMP IT OR TO ACTUALLY ON YOUR HOOKUP.
WHETHER YOU'RE HOOKED UP OR NOT IS, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THAT'S THEIR POLICY.
WATER GET, SO YOU GET WATER, YOU GET SEWERED WITH THAT.
AND THAT, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I ASKED MATT TO CALL RAVI ABOUT TODAY BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE YOU CAN HOOK ONTO WATER WITHOUT HOOKING ONTO SEWER.
I MEAN, I'M JUST NOT SURE ABOUT THAT.
UM, THAT CAME UP WITH ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT.
SOMEONE WANTED TO HAVE ONE OR THE OTHER.
I MEAN, AND, AND I'M NOT SURE.
I THINK THEY ENDED UP DRILLING A PRIVATE WELL AND A SEPTIC AND NOT DOING BLAH AWARENESS HERE.
THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO FIND OUT.
FROM THE TOWN PRIOR TO WILSON, ANY APPROVAL, WILSON J THE, THE PREVIOUS OWNER DID, HE WAS LOOKING AT DOING THAT.
HE WANTED TO KEEP THE, THE PUMPING HOLE, I THINK, AND THEN JUST HOOK UP THE WATER.
YEAH, THAT'S DEFINITELY A QUESTION.
THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS
AND IS IT GONNA HAVE THE SAME ISSUES? I MEAN, DON'T, IF IT DOESN'T PERK HERE, IT MAY NOT PERK THERE.
I'M, THAT'S JUST LOST MY MEMORY.
I'M OUT, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IT'S SIX ACRES.
UM, SO I, I DON'T KNOW, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE RO REMONT? SO THAT'S 80 ACRES.
I MEAN, THAT YOU'RE, YOU HAVE A LITTLE, OBVIOUSLY MORE LAND TO WORK WITH, I THINK, AND LAND DOES PERK OUT THERE.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT, BUT THIS LAND JUST, THERE'S DRAINAGE, THERE'S A DRAINAGE SWALE CORRECT.
THAT WAS A THING WITH THIS PROPERTY.
AND THIS PROPERTY HAS SOME DISADVANTAGES.
SO I, AND I JUST REMEMBER THAT FROM THE HOUSE BEING THERE AND NOT HAVING ANY PERMANENT SEWER SYSTEM, I THINK IT ACTUALLY HAS A SINKHOLE ALSO TOWARD THE BACK THAT THEY HAD THAT DROUGHT, YOU KNOW, SO, AND YOU'RE DEFINITELY GONNA FIND THAT OUT THERE.
I MEAN, IT'S CARS, IT'S ROCKLAND FOR A REASON,
OR, OR PUBLIC WATER SEWER, I MEAN, AT, AT A SCALE OF WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING.
YOU NEED PUBLIC WATER AND SEWER.
RIGHT? I MEAN, FOR THIS YOU COULD, YOU COULD REALLY JUST HAVE A WELL IN SEPTIC.
UM, BUT FOR A SCALE OF INDUSTRY OF THAT NATURE, YOU NEED PUBLIC UTILITIES.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION, MR. BUTLER? YEAH.
THE, UH, UH, SO IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE, UH, LIKE YOUR NEEDS ARE ARE MORE OF A, A JUST A HALF BATH, JUST A, JUST A SINK AND A TOILET.
WE HAVE TWO HALF BATHS IN OUR FACILITY.
UH, AND, YOU KNOW, A SINK AND A TOILET, UH, IN, IN TWO SEPARATE, UH, BATHROOMS. AND WE ALSO HAVE A, A SMALL PANTRY SINK AND A MOP SINK, AND THAT'S IT.
SO I'M, I'M JUST CURIOUS AND, AND, YOU KNOW, UM, DISREGARDING THE MOP SINK, UH, THE, UH, UH, HAS IT BEEN UNDER CONSIDERATION JUST TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE A PORTA-POTTY SERVICE OUT THERE? NO.
WE, WE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT DOING THAT ON A TEMPORARY BASIS.
IF WE CAN'T RESOLVE SOMETHING BEFORE WE'RE READY FOR, YOU KNOW, TO OPEN UP.
BUT, YOU KNOW, AND, AND TO SORT OF ADDRESS THE, THE, THE, THE, WELL, UH, WE HAVE A SPRINKLER SYSTEM IN TWO OF OUR BUILDINGS, SO WE, WE DEFINITELY NEED PUBLIC WATER, UH, DELIVERED TO THE SIDE.
I WAS, I'M, I'M JUST KIND OF CURIOUS AS TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE, HAVE YOU, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE, UH, YOU REALLY WOULDN'T NEED ANY MORE THAN, YOU KNOW, A SOMETHING THAT AKIN TO A FORA POTTY MM-HMM.
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FLOOR OR SOMETHING OF THAT, THAT NATURE.THE, THESE BATHROOMS HAVE BEEN INCORPORATED INTO A SITE PLAN AND THE DESIGN AND THE BUILDING PLANS AND EVERYTHING ON THAT.
AND I MEAN, I HAVEN'T TYPICALLY SEEN HEALTH DEPARTMENT APPROVAL FOR A PERMANENT USE OF PORTA JOHNS FOR A COMMERCIAL THING.
I MEAN, IT, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT WITH, UH, NON, UH, NON-COMMERCIAL PRIVATE USE CAMPING, YOU KNOW, TYPE THING WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S TEMPORARY, BUT THIS WOULD BE A PERMANENT SOLUTION.
AND SO THIS IS KIND OF THE, WOULD REALLY BE THE NEXT STEP UP FROM PORTA JOHN'S, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, THE PUMP HALL.
SO I, I WAS JUST, JUST CURIOUS ON THAT.
IS THERE A TIMEFRAME FOR A RESOLUTION TO THIS AT ALL? I KNOW YOU'RE RUNNING WOODS END.
UM, YEAH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE, UM, HOPING TO BE READY TO OPEN UP, UH, END OF APRIL EARLY, UH, MAY RANGE.
SO YEAH, WE'RE, WE'RE UNDER THE GUN AND, AND THIS, YOU KNOW, UM, UH, I, I WISH WE WOULD'VE DISCOVERED THIS SOONER, BUT IN THE, IN THE SEQUENCE OF, OF OUR CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITIES AND THE SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES WE'VE HAD WITH DUCT IRON PIPE AND THAT KIND OF STUFF, YOU KNOW, JUST THE, THE SOONEST WE COULD GET TO PUTTING THE SYSTEM IN WAS EARLY DECEMBER.
AND, AND, AND, UH, SO, SO WE, YOU KNOW, UH, WE IMMEDIATELY KNEW WE HAD A PROBLEM AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON SOLUTIONS UNTIL WE KIND OF RAN OUTTA SOLUTIONS.
CAN, CAN THE, CAN YOU PUT A FORCED SYSTEM ONTO YOUR PROPERTY TO PUSH INTO THEIR SYSTEM? YES, BUT GETTING THEIR SYSTEM TO OUR PROPERTY IS THE PROBLEM.
Y Y YOU KNOW, CUZ UH, THE, THE COULDN'T DO AN EASEMENT TO GMC OR WHEREVER THAT SITE IS.
WE, WE, WE PROBABLY COULD DO THAT AND, AND THROUGH THE POTOMAC EDISON EASEMENT AS WELL.
UM, BUT THAT'S GONNA TAKE A LOT OF TIME AND, AND I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT WE COULD, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE COULD DO THAT.
I, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO GET COOPERATION TO DO THAT FOR THEM TO, TO GIVE, YOU KNOW, GIVE US THAT EASEMENT.
I KNOW THAT THEY WANT US TO GO AWAY AND, AND WE, AND WE DON'T WANT TO DISTURB 'EM.
I MEAN, WE'RE, WE, WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT HAPPY THAT, THAT WE'VE HAD THIS PROBLEM.
WE WANT TO TAKE CARE OF IT AND, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, AND REPAY THEIR LOT AND GET THEM, YOU KNOW, BACK HOME.
YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK WE COULD HAVE ALL OF THE ANSWERS PRIOR TO THE FIRST MEETING IN APRIL AND MAYBE PUT IT ON THAT AGENDA IF THE BOARD WERE LIKE, MS. COLE, DID YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? UM, I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THE, WELL, CUZ I KNOW THE HOUSE THAT USED TO SIT THERE HAD NO IDEA THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, COULDN'T GET SEPTIC.
UM, SO I'M ASSUMING THEY DID HAVE A WELL THERE.
THEY, THEY HAD A WELL THAT SERVED THEM.
YEAH, THEY, SO MY, MY, JUST MY THOUGHT IF YOU CAN'T GET, UM, WATER, IF THEY SAY IF YOU DON'T GET ONE, YOU DON'T GET THE OTHER OR HOWEVER THE, THAT WORKS WITH THE TOWN.
UM, COMPANY TWO AND MR. BEAMS HERE, HE MIGHT BE ABLE, THERE'S NO PUBLIC WATER SEWER THERE AND THERE'S A WELL SYSTEM AND THEY HAVE A SUPPRESSION SYSTEM THAT'S OF A BIG TANK THAT HOLDS.
SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT AS AN OPTION, BUT I KNOW OUT THERE THEIR SUPPRESSION SYSTEM, THERE'S A HOLDING TANK OF WATER AND THE WELL SUPPLIES THAT, I DON'T KNOW ALL THE INS AND OUTS, BUT I DO KNOW THAT THAT WAS BECAUSE THERE'S NO PUBLIC SERVICE TO THAT FACILITY AND THEY HAD TO HAVE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM AS WELL.
YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAVE TWO, UH, 40,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDINGS.
I, THAT'S, I DON'T KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A LOT OF SPRINKLER COVERAGE.
IT WAS JUST A WELL THOUGHT SITTING HERE IS AN OPTION SPRINKLER, THEY HAVE A SPRINKLER SYSTEM, SO THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE, WELL, SO DOES THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
THAT'S WHAT I MEAN, THAT'S THEIR SUPPRESSION SYSTEM AND IT WORKS OFF OF THIS WELL IN THIS TANK.
IT IS, IT IS PLAUSIBLE TO HAVE ANY SIZABLE SYSTEM SERVICED BY A TANK.
I THINK MS CALL'S POINT IS, IS THAT IF THERE'S A DILEMMA BETWEEN THE TOWN NOT ALLOWING YOU TO HAVE JUST ONE OR NOT THE OTHER, THAT'S A POSSIBLE SOLUTION.
THAT'S JUST A ANOTHER WAY TO GO FORWARD.
WELL, AND WE CAN ASK THAT QUESTION SPECIFICALLY, BUT YOU KNOW, THIS, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY KNOW WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE DOING.
THEY KNOW THAT WE'RE HERE ASKING FOR THIS.
AND, AND I'VE NOT HEARD THAT OBJECTION AT ALL.
THAT'S WELL, I HOPE SO, BUT, BUT WORK, BUT WE CERTAINLY ASKED THE QUESTION SPECIFICALLY.
BUT I, YOU KNOW, JUST KNOWING THAT, NOT HEARING YOU SAY THAT AS AN OPTION, I DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU HAD THOUGHT ABOUT THAT.
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TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, WE HAVE NOT LOOKED INTO THAT.WE, YOU KNOW, I, I DIDN'T THINK THAT THAT WAS GONNA BE A, A, A FEASIBLE OPTION FOR US.
BUT, UH, BUT YOU KNOW, IF, IF NEED BE, WE WOULD CERTAINLY LOOK INTO IT.
GET I DO HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTIONS.
NOW, YOU DO HAVE SEWER SERVICE OUT THERE, CORRECT? NO, NO.
THERE'S NO SEWER, SEWER SERVICE? NO SEWERS? NO NONE.
IT, IT, IT ENDS AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE PARKING LOT OF, UH, GMC AND THAT, THAT'S WHERE THE PUBLIC, THERE, THERE'S A MANHOLE THERE.
AND, AND YOU KNOW, WE WERE TRYING TO EXTEND THAT TO OUR PROPERTY.
THE, THE REASON I WAS ASKING IS CUZ UH, MS. OS HAD SAID THAT, UH, SHE, SHE HAD, SHE HAD MENTIONED THAT, YOU KNOW, KNOW THAT, UH, IF YOU GET WATER, THEN YOU'D HAVE TO PAY FOR SEWER.
BUT IF THERE'S NO SEWER AFTER THAT, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
I MEAN, I'M NOT SAYING THAT SHE'S WRONG, I'M JUST SAYING IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
I'M TELL WHAT I'M SAYING TO YOU IS THE WATER POLICY OF THE TOWN, RIGHT.
IS THAT IF YOU TAKE IN THEIR WATER, WHETHER YOU USE THEIR SEWER, NOT YOU'RE GONNA PAY FOR IT.
AND THEY HAD TO, THEY WERE PAYING SEPTIC FEES FOR TWO YEARS AND THEY NEVER USED THE SEWER SYSTEM.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THE TOWN IS NOT ALLOWING, IS, COULD YOU EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE TOWN IS NOT PROVIDING THE PUBLIC WATER AND SEWAGE TO YOUR FACILITY? WHY AREN'T THEY DOING THAT? I THOUGHT THAT WAS THEY WILL, THEIR CHARTER.
THEY WILL, BUT WE HAVE TO PUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN.
WE HAVE TO PUT THE PIP YOU HAVE TO PUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN IT AND THEY CAN'T CAUSE OF THE ROCK.
HE'S SAYING IT'S TOO MUCH OF AN EXPENSE, BASICALLY.
OR CAN YOU PHYSICALLY DO IT? NO, IT'S, IT'S MORE THAN THAT.
I MEAN, IT IS GOING TO BE VERY, I MEAN, I'VE SEEN THE ROCK HOW BAD IT IS, BUT, BUT IT'S, IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN WE, WE, YOU KNOW, SIX WEEKS AND 40 FEET OF PIPE.
YOU KNOW, AND, AND THE GMC DEALERSHIP IS NOT HAPPY AND WE STILL HAVE, AND WE HAD THE, THE BARRICADES ON ROUTE, UH, 5 22.
IT'S JUST, UM, ANY, ANY, I GUESS ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, BUT IT'S JUST NOT, YOU KNOW.
SO ARE THEY DENYING THAT? OR IT'S JUST THAT YOU'RE ON A TIME CRUNCH THAT YOU WANNA OPEN UP YOUR BUSINESS AND THAT'S WHY YOU'RE ASKING FOR THIS ALTERNATIVE METHOD? I'M ASKING FOR THE ALTERNATIVE METHOD BECAUSE WE'VE LOOKED AT EVERYTHING FROM A, A PUBLIC SEWER AND WATER TO, TO THIS, AND THIS IS LIKE THE LAST OPTION.
BECAUSE THE PUBLIC WATER AND SEWAGE IS, IS OUT OF, IT'S NOT AN OPTION ANYMORE BECAUSE THE TOWN WON'T DO IT.
OR IS IT BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE OR THE COST OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS TOO HIGH? NO, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S AS A MATTER, IT'S, YOU KNOW, I DON'T, WE, WE HAVEN'T DONE A COST ANALYSIS BECAUSE WE'VE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE JUST LOOKED AT IT AND, AND YOU KNOW, WE'VE TESTED THE ROCK AS IT'S LIKE 29,000 PSI ROCK IS, YOU KNOW, JUST, IT'S JUST GOING NOWHERE.
AND, AND, AND IT'S, IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND YOU.
SO, SO YEAH, EVERY, EVERYTHING HAS A COST IMPACT.
SO, SO THIS CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE A COST IMPACT TO SOME SORT.
BUT, BUT, UM, WE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE, THE, THE, THE PUBLIC WATER AND SEWER, YOU KNOW, END AND WE ARE TO CONNECT.
WE'RE SUPPOSED TO CONNECT TO IT, AND WE'VE PAID THE CONNECTION FEES FOR BOTH SEWER AND WATER, AND WE MAKE THE CONNECTION, GET ALL THE INSPECTIONS, AND THEN THE WATER AND THE SEWERS DELIVERED TO OUR SITE RIGHT THROUGH THE PIPES THAT WE PUT IN THE GROUND.
WE CAN'T PUT, PUT THOSE PIPES IN THE GROUND, IS WHAT I'M SAYING.
IT'S JUST NOT, IT'S NOT, UH, FEASIBLE.
IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT, IT JUST IS, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT WE CAN'T DO WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, AND THERE'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, WE ACTUALLY, WE DIDN'T JUST HIT ROCK AND GIVE UP, YOU KNOW, WE LOOKED AT, AT THE POSSIBILITY, WE CONSIDERED THE POSSIBILITY OF BLASTING, BUT YOU KNOW, WE'RE RIGHT ON THE SIDE OF 5 22 AND, AND IN A PARKING LOT OF A DEALERSHIP, AND, AND IT'S JUST TOO RISKY TO DO THAT.
WE, WE HAD A LITTLE EPISODE WHERE THE QUARRY DID SOME BLASTING THAT DIDN'T GO WELL.
AND, AND IT'S, AND YOU KNOW, SO, SO THEN WE THOUGHT WELL MAYBE JUST BRING BIGGER EQUIPMENT IN.
AND, BUT WE GOT OVER, UH, WE HAVE, UH, POWER LINES OVERHEAD, SO WE CAN'T, WE'RE LIMITED TO WHAT WE CAN DO THERE.
SO WE'RE JUST BOXED INTO A CORNER.
SO THIS IS A PERMANENT FIX OR AN INTERIM? THE, I'M, I'M REQUESTING THAT THE PUMPING HALL BE A PERMANENT FIX.
CAN LIKE, TO, LIKE, TO CLARIFY SOMETHING.
SO WHERE, WHERE YOU'RE SITTING ON 5 22 MM-HMM.
THE, THE WATER AND SEWER CONNECTIONS ARE, YOU SAID IT'S DOWN ON THE, THE,
[00:25:01]
THE SOUTH SOUTHEAST CORNER, WEST, SOUTHWEST, CORNER WEST OF THEIR LIFE.AND, UH, SO ARE, ARE YOU, ARE YOU JUST TRYING TO, TO RUN YOUR CONNECTIONS OUT TO 5 22 WITH, WITH THE EX, WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT THEY WILL MEET YOU? OR ARE THEY SAYING, NO, YOU GOTTA COME ALL THE WAY DOWN.
WHY? THERE'S A, THERE'S A, WAIT, HOLD ON.
WOULD LIKE TO COME AND SPEAK ADDRESS THAT.
HE PROBABLY KNOWS THAT THIS A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN I, YEAH.
REAL, REAL QUICK, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, THAT IS THE STOPPING POINT FOR THE WATER AND SEWER AT THIS POINT IN TIME, THE PARALLEL WATER LINE WAS PUT UPON THE FRONT WALL STORAGE TO EXTEND IT TO THEIR PROPERTY.
THE PARALLEL LINE, THE TOWN IS PICKING UP FROM THAT POINT TO CONTINUE THE PARALLEL WATER LINE.
THIS IS ALL PART OF THAT ENTIRE PROCESS.
THE SEWER, HOWEVER, AS MR. PRINCESS SAID, IS MUCH LOWER.
AND THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM IS.
THEY HAVE TO PUT THE WATER LINE IN FOR THE TOWN TO BE ABLE TO DO THE PARALLEL WATER LINE.
AND THAT WAS PART OF THEIR AGREEMENT WITH THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL TO EXTEND IT BECAUSE THEY WERE GAINING BENEFIT FROM THAT TO GET IT THERE.
THAT IS PART OF THE ENTIRE PROCESS.
WHEN BOTH SHOPPING CENTERS WENT IN, THE DEVELOPER HAD TO IN INSTALL THAT INFRASTRUCTURE, EVEN THOUGH IT BECAME THE TOWN'S PROPERTY AFTERWARDS, THEY HAD TO PUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN.
IT'S THE SAME METHODOLOGY AT THIS POINT.
SO I, I GUESS I'M TAKING A LOOK AT ANYTHING THAT PARALLELS 5 22.
THE, UH, THAT, THAT, UH, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT SHOULD BE, UH, A, A PUBLIC CONCERN OVER THERE AND THAT THE, AND THAT THE TOWN SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PUTTING THAT IN.
BUT YOU SAID THAT IT'S ONE OF THESE THINGS WHERE THEY CAN, WHERE WHERE THEY CAN MAKE THAT PART OF THE NEGOTIATIONS THEN THAT WAS PART OF THE NEGOTIATION.
BUT, AND IS, IS THAT PART OF THE NEGOTIATION HERE? NO, THAT'S STILL BETWEEN FRONT ROYAL STORAGE AND THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL THAT THEY HAD TO EXTEND THAT TO GET TO THEIR BUILDING, TO PROVIDE THAT.
THE SEWER, THE SEWER IS NOT PART OF THAT.
THAT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THE, THE BUILDING OWNER WOULD'VE BEEN REQUIRED TO DO.
JUST, JUST AS, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT HE CAN GO BACK TO THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL AND SAY, I'D LIKE YOU TO EXTEND THAT SEWER FROM THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF GMC UP TO WHERE I CAN CONNECT IN, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU COME UP HERE AND I'LL CONNECT IN HERE.
NO, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, IT BENEFITS THE TOWN.
NOTHING AT ALL TO EXTEND IT THERE, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ANY DEVELOPMENTS GOING FURTHER OUT TO SERVICE AT THAT POINT IN TIME.
I, I GUESS, I GUESS THE REASON I'M SCRATCH MY HEAD ON THIS IS BECAUSE JUST LIKE MS. OATS SAID, IF THEY GET WATER UP THERE, THEY'RE GONNA CHARGE HIM FOR THE SEWER, BUT THEY'RE NOT GONNA PUT THE SEWER IN.
SO I'M SCRATCHING MY HEAD LIKE, OKAY, I DON'T SEE THE LOGIC IN THIS.
IT, IT GETS DOWN TO THEIR REGULATIONS FOR THE WATER AUTHORITY.
THAT YOU, THERE ARE CERTAIN PARAMETERS NOW THEY CAN MAKE EXCEPTIONS FOR IT.
RSW IS ONE OF THOSE EXCEPTIONS THAT THE COUNTY HAD INTENDED TO PUT A SEPTIC SYSTEM IN THE TOWN, SAID NO, IF WE'RE PROVIDING YOU WATER, YOU'RE GOING TO PUT IT BACK IN AND YOU'RE GONNA GET CHARGED FOR THAT.
THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT MADE FOR THAT SPECIFIC PURPOSE.
ARE THERE ANY HIDDEN COST TO THE COUNTY TO DO THIS METHOD? NO.
HIDDEN COST AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I DO NOT SEE ANY.
UM, THE ONLY ADDITIONAL, IT WON'T BE A COST, IT'S AN OFFSETTING COST WOULD BE ONCE THE PUMPING HAUL IS DESIGNED, WE WOULD HAVE TO DO THE REVIEW AND DO THE INSPECTIONS FOR THAT PARTICULAR PIECE.
BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS A COST OFFSETTING, THEY WOULD BE PAYING FEES FOR THAT.
I I, I JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE, AT THE PUMP HALL IS IS, TO ME IT WOULD NOT BE A VIABLE, PERMANENT SOLUTION.
I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE ONE OF THESE THINGS WHERE IF YOU WERE TO DO IT FOR THE NEXT YEAR TO TWO YEARS WITH THE, WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT YOU ARE GOING TO, TO GET THAT SEWER LINE UP THERE, AND, AND I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, YOU KNOW, YOU'D HAVE TO DRILL THROUGH ROCK AND ALL SORTS OF STUFF AND IT, AND IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST NOT DOABLE IN THERE.
THERE IS A PLAUSIBLE METHOD TO THAT.
BUT THAT WOULD BE ON THE TOWN TO DO, AS MR. PRINCE SAID, THEY WILL NOT ALLOW A PRIVATE SYSTEM TO BE INCORPORATED INTO THEIR SYSTEM WHERE THEY WOULD TAKE OWNERSHIP OF IT.
VDOT WILL NOT ALLOW A PRIVATE SYSTEM IN THEIR EASEMENT.
THE SOLUTION LATER ON, WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT CONTINUES FURTHER OUT IS THAT THE TOWN WILL PUT A PUMP
[00:30:01]
SYSTEM OUT THERE THAT WILL ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN AND EVERYTHING WILL BE STATUS QUO AT THAT POINT IN TIME.BUT THAT WOULD REQUIRE A DEVELOPMENT TO GO OUT THERE.
AND MORE THAN LIKELY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS THE SAME AS WHAT HAS HAPPENED PREVIOUSLY.
THE PUMPING STATION BE P WOULD BE PUT IN, BUT THE PATRON, THE DEVELOPER WOULD END UP PAYING FOR IT AND THEN IT WOULD GO INTO THE SYSTEM.
THERE'S A PUMPING STATION DOWN THERE THAT WAS PUBLICLY OR PRIVATELY FUNDED, BUT WHEN IT WAS ALL SAID AND DONE, THE TOWN ACCEPTED IT INTO THEIR SYSTEM AND THEY OWN IT NOW.
I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE LOGIC IS BEHIND THIS AND THAT, UH, THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE 10 YEARS FROM NOW, YOU'RE STILL NOT SIT, YOU'RE, YOU'RE THAT YOU'RE NOT SITTING THERE STILL PUMPING, UH, EXCUSE ME, THE, THE, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, STILL PUMPING, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, THE WATER AND THE SEWAGE.
CAUSE THAT WOULD BE A HECK OF A THING TO BE STUCK WITH.
JUST, JUST TO MENTION WITH THE PUMPING HAULS.
I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE DON'T ISSUE MANY OF THEM BECAUSE OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS HAVING TO DO THAT.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER TAKES ACCOUNT FOR.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE DOCUMENTATION WE REQUIRE THEN TO HAVE A CONTRACT WITH A SEPTIC COMPANY AND THEN WE HAVE SOME DOCUMENTATION RELATING TO THE PUMPING HALL POLICY THAT WE, WE, UH, HAVE THEM FILE, WE FILE AND UH, THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR SIGNS OFF ON THAT.
THE TOWN TOWN HAS ALREADY BASICALLY LET ME KNOW THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THESE, THESE THINGS HAPPEN AND THERE'S, THEY'RE NOT EVEN SIGNING OFF HAVING TO SIGN OFF ON THE THESE ANYMORE.
IT'S JUST BASICALLY AGREEMENT WITH THE, THE, UH, SEPTIC COMPANY THAT THEY CAN USE THE TOWN DUMP SITE.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S REALLY THE PRIMARY THING.
SO, SO YOU, YOU'VE GONE 40 FEET WITH THE, WITH THE, THE SEWAGE.
I MEAN, IT, IT WOULD TAKE US A YEAR AND A HALF AT THAT RATE.
NO, NO, WHAT I'M SAYING IS, YOU KNOW, WHERE, WHERE YOUR BUSINESS IS AT AND RUNNING IT OUT TO THE ROAD AND SAY LIKE IF THEY DID HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE, HOW CLOSE ARE YOU HERE? OH, UH, FROM OUR BUILDING IS ABOUT A WHAT, A HUNDRED AND TWENTY FIVE, A HUNDRED FIFTY FEET, 150 FEET OFF OF YOU GOT 40 OF THAT? NO, WE STARTED AT THE OTHER END.
WE STARTED TO, WE WANTED TO BRING THE, THE SEWER FROM THE CONNECTION POINT TO OUR PROPERTY.
SO WE'VE ONLY COME UP THE ROAD AND, AND, AND THERE'S A, YOU CAN SEE THE BIG HOLE AND IT'S NOT, WE FILLED IT IN, SO IT'S NOT A DANGER.
UM, BUT UM, UH, YOU CAN SEE WHERE WE'VE TAKEN PARKING LOT PAVEMENT OUT OF GMC AND THAT'S, AND THAT IS REPRESENTS MORE THAN THE PIPE WE HAVE ON THE GROUND BECAUSE OF THE, THE WAY YOU HAVE TO DIG AT AN ANGLE TO KEEP EVERYTHING SAFE.
SO HE PROVIDED ME WITH YEAH, WITH THEIR PLAN TO THE LOCATION OF WHERE THE PUMPING HALL MAY GO.
AND THE SETBACK TO THE DRINK, TO THE, UH, PARKING LOT OF 50 FOOT.
SO THIS IS WHERE IT WOULD BE COMING IN NORMALLY.
OKAY, SO THAT'S IF I'M CORRECT.
SO THE PUMPING HALL WOULD BE RIGHT HERE.
THEY'D BE COMING IN OR JUST, YOU KNOW, SERVICE THE TANKS AND THEN THEY'D GO WE, WE COULD, WE CAN, I WAS JUST, I WAS JUST CURIOUS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IF, IF YOU'D STARTED WHERE YOUR BUSINESS IS AT TO GO AFTER THE ROAD, BUT IT, IT'S NOT THAT WAY.
YOU STARTED OVER WHERE THE, WHERE THAT THING ENDS.
AND THEN TRIED TO, WE'RE TRYING TO BRING IT INTO THE PROPERTY.
IF WE TOOK IT TO THE ROAD, THERE'S NOTHING TO CONNECT TO.
AND, BUT YOU KNOW, THIS, THE, THIS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING, WHAT WE'RE ASKING IS NOT OUR FIRST CHOICE.
THIS ISN'T WHAT WE INTENDED TO DO HERE.
THIS IS JUST WHAT, YOU KNOW, AFTER, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SPENT, YOU KNOW, SINCE MID-JANUARY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN MAKE THIS HAPPEN AND, AND THESE SYSTEMS, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE PLACED IT, UH, WHERE WE DID FOR A REASON, UM, IT'LL BE GRAVITY FED SO WE DON'T HAVE PUMPS.
SO WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, LESS, YOU KNOW, FUTURE MECHANICAL PROBLEMS AND SO FORTH.
IT'LL, IT'LL, IT'LL GRAVITY DRAIN INTO THESE TANKS AND THE TANKS ARE ALARMED.
THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, I I I THINK IT, IT'S NOT IDEAL, BUT I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S A SYSTEM THAT COULD WORK AND COULD WORK.
SO IS, IS, IS, IS THERE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO ON THIS THAT WOULD BE, UH, BE BECAUSE, UH, I DEFINITELY DON'T WANT TO SET A PRECEDENT AND YOU KNOW, LIKE, WELL, YOU ALLOWED HIM TO DO IT.
IS THERE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD POINT OUT ON THIS PARTICULAR CASE THAT, THAT, THAT ABSOLUTELY THIS IS THAT THAT, UH, OKAY.
YOU KNOW, UNLESS YOU, UNLESS YOU'VE GOT THIS SAME SITUATION
[00:35:01]
THAT HE'S GOT NO, WE'RE NOT GONNA ALLOW THAT.USUALLY WHAT THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT WILL DO WILL PROVIDE A DENIAL LETTER.
FOR, FOR A, A DRAIN A STANDARD DRAIN FIELD.
SO IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WE WOULD GET SOME DOCUMENTATION FROM THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND THEN ALSO ONCE THEY'VE RECEIVED THE ENGINEERING REPORT AND, AND THE INFORMATION FROM THEIR ENGINEER AS TO THE LOCATION AND DESIGN OF THAT, THEY WOULD ISSUE A CONSTRUCTION PERMIT.
SO AS PART OF THE REQUEST, I WOULD MAKE SURE WE WOULD HAVE SOME KIND OF DOCUMENTATION FROM THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND THEN ALSO THE TOWN REGARDING THAT, THAT SEWER AND, AND, AND WATER USAGE, UH, POLICY THAT THEY HAVE.
UH, AGAIN, THEY MAY SAY HE IS STILL GONNA HAVE TO PAY, YOU KNOW, FOR THE SEWER.
YOU KNOW, FOR THE, I MEAN THAT THAT'S THE COST THAT THEY WOULD BEAR.
BUT THIS IS A SOLUTION THAT, YOU KNOW, WOULD SAVE THEM AN INFORMAL AMOUNT OF, I GUESS, TIME, MONEY, AND AGGRAVATION AFTER WHAT THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
I MEAN, BECAUSE YOU, YOU'VE GOT, UH, YOU, YOU'VE GOT A LOT TO INVEST IN AT THIS POINT.
WELL WE DO, BUT, BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, UH, UH, JERSEY BARRIERS DOWN 5 22.
WE CAN'T REMOVE THEM UNTIL WE PUT THE, THE DECELERATION LANE IN AND WE CAN'T PUT THE DECELERATION LANE IN UNTIL WE GET OUR WATER LINES IN AND WE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, OUR PLAN WAS TO DIG THE WATER AND THE SEWER AT THE SAME TIME, EVEN THOUGH THEY CAN'T BE, THERE'S CODE ON HOW CLOSE THEY CAN BE TOGETHER.
YOU STILL, YOU START HERE AND YOU WORK YOUR WAY DOWN 5 22 AND INTO THE PROPERTY.
SO, SO, YOU KNOW, WE, WE SET UP ALL THIS STUFF TO SET IN MOTION TO BE LIKE THREE WEEKS.
WE THOUGHT WE'D BE THREE WEEKS INTO, INTO GETTING THAT, THAT SEWER WATER DOWN AND TURNED IN AND THEN WE CAN START, YOU KNOW, OUR BACKFILL AND OUR PAVING AND THAT KIND OF STUFF TO, TO, TO OPEN UP OUR, OUR ENTRANCE INTO THE PROPERTY.
AND, AND RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE DEAD IN THE WATER.
SO, SO THE, SO HERE VISUALLY YOU CAN SEE THIS SO THAT, SO THE, THE WATER LINES ARE GOING DOWN TWO FEET BELOW THE FREEZE LINE.
THEY'RE ABLE TO DO THAT NO PROBLEM.
THE SEWER LINES, BECAUSE THEY ARE GRAVITY FED, ARE GOING DOWN EIGHT FEET.
SO, SO WHEN YOU'RE GETTING INTO THAT ROCK, WHEN YOU'RE GETTING, YOU KNOW, THAT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE THAN THE TWO FEET.
THEY CAN DO THE WATER LINES THAT, THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IF THE TOWN, EVERYTHING WORKS OUT.
IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A WAY FOR THEM TO HAVE TO NOT PURSUE THIS ANY FURTHER WITH THE SEWER BECAUSE IT'S JUST NOT, IT'S JUST NOT HAPPENING.
IT'S JUST WHAT DOES CODE STIPULATE THAT THE SEWER HAS TO BE BURIED TO, AND THAT'S A DATED QUESTION.
THE SEWER IS DESIGNED BY THE AUTHORITY HAVING JURISDICTION, WHICH IS THE TOWN.
SO IT, IT IS BASICALLY JUST A GRAVITY, IT'S AN EIGHTH OF AN INCH FALL PER FOOT.
BUT, BUT, BUT LET'S SAY THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO MEET THAT MM-HMM.
WHAT IS THE, WHAT IS THE MINIMUM DEPTH THAT YOU CAN THAT, THAT YOU HAVE TO BURY IT? I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE BECAUSE WE DON'T ACTUALLY REGULATE THAT TOWN WOOD, BUT I BELIEVE IT IS ABOUT A TWO FOOT, UH, MINIMUM COVER.
IS WHAT THEY'RE GONNA REQUIRE.
ALRIGHT, SO I THINK WE COULD GET THE ANSWERS FOR YOU PRIOR TO YEAH.
THE MEETING AND MAKE SURE THE TOWN'S ON BOARD.
BUT THIS IS MA'AM WELL, RIGHT.
AND HOPEFULLY THIS IS AN EXCEPTION TO THE RULE, HOPEFULLY.
[C. Discussion - Modification Request for Conditional Use Permit 2015-01-01, Gillian Greenfield & Richard Butcher for Private Use Camping (Non-Commercial) Located off Beech Road - Chase Lenz, Zoning Administrator]
ITEM FOR A DISCUSSION IS THE MODIFICATION REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.2015 DASH OH ONE DASH OH ONE GILLIAN GREENFIELD IN RICHARD BUTCHER FOR, FOR A PRIVATE USE CAMPING NON-COMMERCIAL LOCATED OFF THE BEACH ROAD.
UM, YEAH, SO WE HAD THIS AT A PUBLIC HEARING, I BELIEVE IN JANUARY BEFORE THE BOARD AND SOME CONFUSION OVER THIS FIRST CONDITION THAT WAS PLACED ON THIS CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IN 2015 AND REALLY LIKE WHAT THAT REGULATES.
UM, SO I PUT TOGETHER THIS SLIDE WITH THE DEFINITION FOR PRIVATE USE CAMPING.
UM, THERE'S ADDITIONAL CODE FOR WHAT THIS REQUEST WAS FOR IN THE SPECIAL FLOOD HAZARD AREA TO ALLOW FOR AN ACCESSORY BUILDING WITHOUT A PRINCIPAL BUILDING.
UM, THE CONDITION IS ALSO PUT UP HERE AND WE, UH, PLANNING STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT THE CONDITION BE MODIFIED TO THIS UPDATED LANGUAGE.
UM, SO DID GET AN, AN OPINION FROM THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE THAT WAS INCLUDING YOUR PACKETS LATE YESTERDAY.
APOLOGIZE FOR HOW LATE THAT WAS.
[00:40:01]
YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU YOUR OPTIONS MOVING FORWARD.UM, THIS, THE NAME CHA THIS DOES HAVE A NAME CHANGE REQUEST AND ALSO REQUEST TO REMOVE CONDITION NUMBER ONE.
UM, SO YOU COULD APPROVE THE NAME CHANGE REQUEST AND APPROVE THE REQUEST AND JUST REMOVE CONDITION NUMBER ONE ALTOGETHER.
UH, YOU COULD APPROVE THE NAME CHANGE REQUEST AND DENY THE REMOVAL OF CONDITION NUMBER ONE AND IT WOULD JUST STAY, UM, OR YOU COULD APPROVE THE NAME CHANGE REQUEST AND MODIFY THE CONDITION TO CHANGE THE LANGUAGE.
SO IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CODE OR DEFINITIONS OR HOW WE ENFORCE THINGS, UH, I'M AVAILABLE.
AND ALSO THE APPLICANTS ARE HERE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THEY'RE GONNA USE THE PROPERTY.
SO APPROVE THE NAME, CHANGE REQUEST AND MODIFY CONDITION NUMBER ONE IS THAT, I'M LOOKING AT THE COVER SHEET RIGHT NOW.
SO WE DELETED NUMBER ONE AND SO YOU REWROTE NUMBER ONE.
MATERIALS ASSOCIATED WITH REC, RECREATIONAL USE ARE TO BE STORED IN A NEAT AND ELDERLY FACT FASHION, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
SO IT'S THAT YOUR THIRD OPTION HERE.
SO CONDITION NUMBER OR ON THE COVER SHEET THAT HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED, SO I APOLOGIZE.
UM, THE CONDITION NUMBER ONE IS THE LANGUAGE THAT WAS ON THE FORMER SLIDE, UH, OR THE MODIFIED LANGUAGE AND IT'S READS.
THE PARKING AND USE OF MAJOR RECREATIONAL VEHICLES FOR PRIVATE USE CAMPING ON THE PROPERTY SHALL BE PROHIBITED.
SO THE WAY THE CONDITION IS CURRENTLY WORDED IS THEY NEED THIS HOA APPROVAL LETTER SUBMITTED TO US.
AND THEN IT OPENS THE DOOR FOR IT.
IF I RECALL CORRECT LAST TIME WE, UH, WE HEARD THIS, THE POA WAS SUPPOSED TO GO OFF AND GET SOME INFORMATION FROM THE FOREST FORESTRY.
THEY WERE, THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO GO BACK TO THE FORESTRY INDUSTRY TO, UM, AND THEY WERE GONNA DISCUSS FIRE HAZARD ON THE PROPERTY WITHOUT HAVING, UH, DRY HYDRANT OR SOMETHING THERE TO, UH, PROTECT THEIR INTEREST.
AND, UH, THEY HAVEN'T GOTTEN BACK TO US ON THAT YET THAT I'M AWARE OF.
HAVE WE? I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, UM, MR. I HAVEN'T HAD ANY COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE POA REPRESENTATIVES.
BUT THAT'S WHY WE PUT IT OUT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER.
SO DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY, I MEAN, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR HOW IT'S GOING TO BE WORDED IF WE DON'T NECESSARILY WANT OVERNIGHT CAMPING WITH, WITH, WITH, UH, TRAILERS AND UH, UH, YOU KNOW, LARGE RECREATIONAL EQUIPMENT, BUT DON'T MIND THE NAME CHANGE.
BUT I THINK, I, I THINK WHAT WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET TO IS HOW WE'RE GONNA WORD THIS.
SO, UM, GILLIAN AND RICHARD ARE WORKING TOGETHER WITH THE COMMUNITY TO GET THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.
CAUSE I DON'T THINK THEY'RE COMING TOGETHER AT ALL.
SO GILLIAN TELL ME IF HELP HELP ME OUT HERE.
UM, ACTUALLY, UM, UM, MY UNDERSTANDING IS, UH, THE NAME CHANGE IS ESSENTIALLY ASSIGNING THE C U P TO THE NEW OWNERSHIP, CORRECT? RIGHT.
UM, BUT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, WE ARE IN SUPPORT OF IS CHASE'S RECOMMENDATION WHERE WE UH, UH, UPDATE CONDITION NUMBER ONE WITH THE LANGUAGE, THE PARKING AND USE OF MAJOR RECREATIONAL VEHICLES FOR PRIVATE USE.
CAMPING ON THE PROPERTY SHALL BE PROHIBITED.
THAT'S WHAT YOU, YOU ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT AND WHAT YOU WANT.
A HUNDRED PERCENT RIGHT? A HUNDRED PERCENT.
WHAT CHASE IS ALSO RECOMMENDING WE'RE UNSUPPORTIVE.
AND YOU SUPPORTED THAT AS WELL? YES MA'AM.
I'M, I'M FINE WITH, WITH THAT.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT Y'ALL, BUT THANK YOU.
SO THE ONLY REAL CHANGE IS THAT WE ARE JUST TAKING AWAY THE, THE PO'S INVOLVEMENT IN IT.
THAT'S IT, THAT'S ALL WE'RE DOING.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? UM-MM NO.
[D. Discussion - Zoning Text Amendment 2023-03-02, Ordinance to Amend and Re-Ordain Sections 180-8 and 180-55.2 of the Warren County Code re: Rural Events Facility - Chase Lenz, Zoning Administrator]
ITEM FOR DISCUSSION IS THE ZONING TAX AMENDMENT 2023 DASH OH THREE DASH OH TWO ORDINANCE TO AMEND AND RE ORDAINED SECTIONS.180 DASH EIGHT AND 180 DASH 55.2 OF THE WARREN COUNTY CODE RURAL EVENTS FACILITY.
THE RURAL EVENTS FACILITY USE WAS ORIGINALLY ADOPTED TO THE WARREN COUNTY ZONING ORDINANCE
[00:45:01]
IN 2017, AS AS A USE ALLOWED BY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IN THE RURAL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.UM, THERE WAS A ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT IN 2020 TO ADD THE USE BY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO THE AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT.
ALSO AMENDED THE DEFINITION AND SUPPLEMENTAL REGULATIONS TO THE WHAT, WHAT IS EXISTING IN THE CODE TODAY.
UM, PREVIOUSLY WE'VE HANDLED LODGING FOR, UH, RURAL EVENTS FACILITIES THROUGH A SEPARATE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTAL.
NOW THIS SITUATIONS MAY BE UNIQUE FOR THERE'S ONLY THREE IN THE COUNTY AT THIS POINT.
UH, ONE HAS A SINGLE SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTAL ON IT.
THAT PROPERTY IS IN RURAL RESIDENTIAL AND ANOTHER HAS, I THINK ONE AND THEN AN ADJACENT PROPERTY HAS ANOTHER LODGING UNIT.
UM, SO WE DID RECEIVE BUILDING PERMITS FOR THE THIRD RELEVANT FACILITY, UM, THIS PAST DECEMBER FOR CONSTRUCTION OF CABINS TO BE USED FOR LODGING FOR EVENT GUESTS ON THE PROPERTY, UH, OR ON THIS PROPERTY APPROVED FOR RURAL EVENTS FACILITY.
IT IS THE FIRST STAGE OF THE OWNER'S PLAN TO CONSTRUCT A TOTAL OF 20 CABINS.
UM, AND IN DISCUSSING THIS PROPOSAL WITH THE COUNTY'S ATTORNEY OFFICE, WHO IS DETERMINED THAT THE EXISTING DEFINITION FOR RURAL EVENTS FACILITY DOES NOT EXPRESSLY INCLUDE OR IMPLY THE INCLUSION OF OVERNIGHT STAYS NOR LODGING UNITS FOR EVENT GUESTS AND A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT WILL BE REQUIRED TO CLASSIFY LODGING UNITS FOR EVENT GUESTS AS ACCESSORY TO THE ROYAL EVENT FACILITY USE.
SO THIS ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT EXPANDS THE DEFINITION TO EXPRESSLY INCLUDE LODGING UNITS FOR EVENT GUESTS AS AN ACCESSORY USE TO RURAL EVENTS.
FACILITY ADDS SUPPLEMENTAL REGS WHICH ADDRESS PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY CONCERNS WHILE ALLOWING FOR PROPER REGULATION OF THE ACCESSORY LODGING UNITS.
UM, THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO THE FIRST SECTION OF GENERAL, UH, REQUIREMENTS, WHICH IS 180 DASH 52 55 0.2 A ON THE DRAFT ORDINANCE.
IT REORGANIZES THE EXISTING SUPPLEMENTAL REGS AND CLEARS UP SOME CONFUSING LANGUAGE AND SPECIFIES WHEN CERTAIN ITEMS, UH, REQUIRED ITEMS ARE TO BE SUBMITTED.
UM, UNDER THE DRAFT ORDINANCE 180 DASH 55.2
THOSE WERE DETERMINED AFTER CONSIDERATION OF THE STATEMENT OF INTENT AND BUILDING SETBACK REQUIREMENTS FOR THE AGRICULTURAL ZONING DISTRICT.
UM, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT REQUIREMENTS AND CONSULTING WITH THE BUILDING OFFICIAL ON TYPICAL SIZES FOR LODGING UNITS AND THE PROPOSED GENERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR LODGING UNITS UNDER 180 DASH 55.2
THESE REQUIREMENTS AND STANDARDS DIFFERENTIATE THE ACCESSORY USE FOR LODGING UNITS FROM OTHER PRINCIPAL USES RELATED TO LODGING FOR COMPENSATION SUCH AS SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTALS, COMMERCIAL CAMPGROUNDS, RESORTS, HOTELS, MOTELS, INNS.
AND SO AT THIS POINT WE HAVE TWO SEPARATE OPTIONS FOR THIS ORDINANCE.
OPTION A INCLUDES EXPRESS LANGUAGE UNDER A SUBSECTION 180 DASH 52.2 55.2 BK TWO OF THE DRAFT ORDINANCE REQUIRING THE RENTAL OF LODGING UNITS TO BE ONLY IN CONJUNCTION WITH AN EVENT AND IMPLEMENTS A THREE CONSECUTIVE DAY DURATION LIMIT FOR RENTAL CONTRACTS AND PROHIBITS THE USE OF THE LODGING UNITS AS INDEPENDENT SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTALS.
THIS IS THE OPTION THAT PLANNING STAFF IS RECOMMENDING AS THESE REQUIREMENTS WE BELIEVE ARE ESSENTIAL TO THE CLASSIFICATION OF THE USE AS ACCESSORY TO THE RELEVANCE FACILITY AND THAT IT DISTINGUISHES THE USE FROM A SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTAL OR HOTEL.
UH, OPTION B UH, WE PREPARED AFTER RECEIVING A FEW FEW COMMENTS AND THAT EXCLUDES THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE RENTAL OF LODGING UNITS TO BE ONLY IN CONJUNCTION WITH AN EVENT.
IT DOES ALLOW FOR A SEVEN CONSECUTIVE DAY MAXIMUM DURATION LIMIT AND IT REMOVES THE PROHIBITION ON THE USE OF THE LODGING UNIT AS INDEPENDENT SHORT-TERM TORRES RENTALS.
AND WE, THIS OPTION, LIKE I SAID, IT DOES ALLOW FOR THE RENTING OF THE LODGING UNITS TO BE COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT OF THE RURAL EVENTS FACILITY.
AND IS THE OPINION OF PLANNING STAFF THAT SUCH RENTAL LODGING UNITS INDEPENDENT OF THE RURAL EVENTS FACILITY SHOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS A SEPARATE PRINCIPLE USE AND NOT ACCESSORY TO THE RURAL EVENTS FACILITY.
SO WE HAVE OPTION A, OPTION B AND THIS IS WHAT WE'VE PREPARED.
AND WE DO HAVE, UH, THE PROPERTY OWNER OF A RURAL EVENTS FACILITY, THE ONE WHO IS TRYING TO PUT IN THE LODGING UNITS HERE.
UH, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, ANY QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSIONS, UH, FROM FROM WHAT, UH, FROM THE DESCRIPTION HERE, THIS SOUNDS TO ME LIKE A, LIKE A IN BETWEEN, FROM FROM UH, WHAT THEY CALL GLAMPING, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS A, WHICH IS A REAL FANCY TENT AND YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT ALL SORTS OF STUFF AND THEN, UH, A UM, AN AIRBNB.
SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE IN BETWEEN.
OKAY, SO I HAVE A ACTIVE VINEYARD, RIGHT, THAT I HAVE BEEN PLANTING AND GROWING SINCE 2019.
[00:50:01]
PREPARED A LITTLE SOMETHING, I HAVE TO PUT MY GLASSES ON CUZ I CAN'T SEE NO MORE.Y'ALL
UM, MY GRANDPARENTS BEFORE ME, THE BIG PART OF DOING THIS WAS TO SAVE THE FARMLAND, UM, TO NOT DEVELOP IT.
I AM A CLASS A CONTRACTOR, HENCE IS WHY YOU'RE GETTING ME THE WAY YOU'RE GETTING ME GUYS BECAUSE I JUST CAME OUT OF THE FIELD AND I HAVE DEVELOPED AND DONE A LOT OF RENOVATIONS THROUGHOUT WARREN COUNTY AND IT'S DEAR TO MY HEART.
UM, PRESERVING THIS FARM WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME.
BUT WHAT WAS ALSO MORE IMPORTANT WAS TO SHARE FARMING WITH THE YOUNGER GENERATION BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I LIVED IN THIS COUNTY WAS FARMING.
YOU KNOW, I RAN THROUGH THE FIELDS AND SO IT WASN'T VIABLE FOR ME TO DO CATTLE, I DIDN'T WANT TO CHASE CATTLE.
SO I SOUGHT IT OUT, RESEARCHED IT AND VENDA CULTURE WAS VERY, JUST VERY NEAR TO MY HEART.
AND VIRGINIA HAS ONLY 2%, WELL IT'S CALLED SOCIALLY DISADVANTAGED FARMERS.
AND SO I HAD TO TRY AND THAT'S WOMEN, THAT'S MINORITIES.
THERE'S, THAT IS WHERE THE U S D A IS FOCUSING RIGHT NOW TO GET HELP OUT TO RURAL, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITIES TO TRY TO GET MORE DISADVANTAGED FARMERS TO WORK.
AND I AM WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE U S D A AND MULTIPLE VIRGINIA TECH AND THE SBA, UM, ON THIS PROJECT, NOT JUST FOR MYSELF, BUT WE'RE ALSO GONNA USE THE RURAL EVENT CENTER TO TEACH SOCIALLY DISADVANTAGED FARMERS.
THEY'RE GOING TO HOLD SEVERAL CONFERENCES THERE, THEY'RE ALREADY PLANNING THAT.
UM, BUT WHAT I SAID IS, AS YOU ALL KNOW, I CURRENTLY OWN AN OPERATIVE VINEYARD IN WARREN COUNTY THAT ENCOMPASSES AROUND 80 ACRES OF FARMLAND.
I OBTAINED A C U P IN 2020 TO OPEN AN EVENT CENTER IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE WINERY, NOT ONLY TO HAVE EVENTS FOR THE WINERY SUCH AS COOPERATIVE EVENTS HOSTED BY VIRGINIA TECH AND THE SBA FOR SOCIALLY DISADVANTAGED FARMERS SUCH AS MYSELF TO INTRODUCE PROGRAMS THAT COULD HELP BUT ALSO DO VITAL TEACHING IN COMMUNITY AND LOCAL EVENTS.
VIRGINIA AGRITOURISM ACCOUNTED IN ACCORDING TO THE 2016 STUDY HAS 2.2 BILLION IMPACT AS QUOTED BY VIRGINIA TECH REPORTING AND IS MAKING SUBSTANTIAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE ECONOMIC HEALTH AND WELLBEING OF THE COMMONWEALTH.
VIRGINIA FARMS ARE FACING CONSTANT STRUGGLES TO INCREASE REVENUE AND IN MOST CASES THAT REVENUE IS TIED DIRECTLY TO WHAT THE LAND CAN PRODUCE IN THE FARM'S ABILITY TO GENERATE SALES.
AGRITOURISM HAS AIDED VIRGINIA FARMERS BY ALLOWING REVENUE BY THE DEVELOPMENT OF AGRICULTURAL PROGRAMS, EVENTS, CABIN STAYS BY INVITING THE RESIDENTS AND THE TOURISTS ONTO THE LAND TO EXPERIENCE THE PEACEFUL BUT IN IN GEN ENERGIZING FARM ENVIRONMENT, I AM ASKING FOR YOUR SUPPORT WITH OPTION B WITH THE FOLLOWING.
CHANGES FROM MY VENUE ALLOW FOR GRASS PARKING AS MOST OF THE VINEYARD TO DO SO WILL ALLOW LESS OF AN ECONOMIC IMPACT AND ADDITIONAL AREA FOR RECREATION WHEN PARKING IS NOT NECESSARY FOR THESE EVENTS.
WE DON'T WANNA THINK THAT WE WON'T HAVE AN EVENT EVERY WEEKEND, BUT WE MAY NOT AND WE DON'T WANT TO USE AREAS THAT WE COULD HAVE FOR RECREATION.
WE CAN USE THE AREA THAT WE'RE GONNA USE, WE'LL PROVIDE FOR ABOUT 90 PARKING SPACES.
I DID WORK WITH CHASE AND MATT ON THAT AND THEY DID SAY THAT THEY WOULD WORK WITH ME ON THAT.
SORRY, THAT'S THE UP DOWN
THE CURRENT CODE IS 15 FEET FROM THE SIDELINES TO BUILD A HOME, 50 FEET FROM THE FRONT AND 35 FOR THE REAR.
BECAUSE OF THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THIS LAND, I AM ASKING, UH, FOR 20 FEET TO BE INSTEAD OF THE 30 BETWEEN THE CABINS AND A SETBACK OF 50 FEET FROM THE REAR PROPERTY LINE ARE A HUNDRED FEET FROM THE EXISTING HOUSES.
NOW IN ON MY FARM UP ON ALL THE CABINS ARE MORE THAN A HUNDRED FEET EXCEPT FOR FIVE, FIVE OF THEM WOULD BE BROACHED AND IT'S ABOUT 200 FEET FROM THE HOUSE, HOUSES FROM THE LOCAL.
AND ALL MY NEIGHBORS SUPPORTED ME.
THEY CAME OUT, THEY TALKED ABOUT IT WHEN I GOT MY C P.
UM, THEY'RE VERY EXCITED TO SEE THIS RATHER THAN TO HAVE A HOUSING DEVELOPMENT AND 80 PLUS HOMES THAT I COULD HAVE PUT OUT THERE.
UM, I DID THE EVENT CENTER THOUGH, JUST SO THAT WE KEEP THAT STRAIGHT.
THAT IS A HUNDRED FEET FROM ANY PROPERTY LINE AND IT'S ALREADY BEING BUILT.
UM, JUST SO YOU GUYS CAN SEE IF I'M ALLOWED TO APPROACH, YOU GUYS CAN PASS IT DOWN.
THESE ARE JUST SOME TYPICALS OF WHAT THE, THE VENUE WILL LOOK LIKE.
UM, AND I, THE OTHER THING IS I THINK IT'S VITAL FOR THE FARM
[00:55:01]
AND AG AGRITOURISM TO BE ABLE TO UTILIZE THE CABINS EVEN WHEN WE ARE NOT HOSTING AN EVENT AS IT WILL CREATE MUCH NEEDED REVENUE FOR THE VINEYARD AS WELL AS THE SEPTIC SYSTEM SHOULD NOT HAVE LONG PERIODS OF NOT BEING USED.WE'RE OVERSIZING THESE SYSTEMS ALREADY JUST IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT WE ARE USE ARE USING THEM FOR.
AND THAT'S, IT'S A REALLY HARD BALANCE WITH THIS.
UM, IN ORDER TO GET THE 300 OCCUPANTS, VDH SAYS WE HAVE TO HAVE FIVE GALLONS.
WELL IF WE DON'T USE THAT SYSTEM FOR TWO WEEKS, CUZ WE DON'T HAVE AN EVENT, WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA HAVE TO GO IN THERE AND FLUSH THE TOILETS.
UM, SO WE'RE AT A HUNDRED AND RIGHT NOW I THINK THEY'VE GOT IT UP TO 175 GALLONS AND THAT'S ALREADY OVERSIZED.
SO WE'RE WORKING WITH STAFF ON THAT.
BUT THERE'S JUST SO MANY LITTLE THINGS IN MAKING THESE AND, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO ASK THE BOARD IS TO PLEASE, I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING IN THESE RURAL EVENT CENTERS SPECIFICALLY THAT SAYS, HEY, THIS IS A FARM, UM, THAT IDENTIFIES THE APPLICANT AS A, AS A WORKING FARM.
SO IS TO ALLOW ACCOMMODATIONS FOR THAT BECAUSE YOU MAY, I KNOW YOU HAVE TO GEAR THIS FOR THE WHOLE COMMUNITY THAT MAY COME UP AND APPLY FOR ONE OF THESE, THESE, BUT IF YOU IDENTIFY SOMETHING IN THE SUBSECTION OF THE CODE THAT GIVES, BECAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE A WORKING FARM, YOU'RE ALLOWED CERTAIN ACCOMMODATIONS AND DAVID COULD SPEAK TO THAT AS FAR AS WHAT WE'RE ALLOWED UNDER THE CODE.
UM, BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, IF WE DON'T HAVE, IF WHAT THEY'RE SUGGESTING IN SECTION A, WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO RENT THOSE CABINS UNLESS WE HAVE A VENUE, THEN THE WHOLE POINT OF HAVING THIS EXTRA TO SUPPORT THE VINEYARD BECAUSE THE WHOLE REASON FOR ME DOING THIS WAS SO I COULD SUPPORT THE, THE FARM BECAUSE WE DON'T ALWAYS MAKE MONEY OR IF WE HAVE A BAD YEAR.
SO I WAS PUTTING, YOU KNOW, THE BARN OUT THERE TO HAVE WEDDINGS WORK, EXTRA
AND IF WE CAN'T USE THE CABINS, THEN, LIKE COVID FOR EXAMPLE, WE COULD HAVE AT LEAST RENTED THE CABINS CUZ WE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO HAVE EVENTS.
YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANNA SPEND THE COUNT OF MONEY THAT WE'RE SPENDING TO SUPPORT THE VENDA CULTURE THAT'S GOING ON IN THE FARM WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO USE THE CABINS.
SO, AND FINALLY I'VE PLANTED OVER A HUNDRED TREES, UM, ALL AROUND THE, THE PROPERTY TO BUFFER IT SO THAT IT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, BETTER FOR MY NEIGHBORS.
AND, UM, I'VE JUST DONE THE BEST I CAN TO BEAUTIFY THE PROPERTY AND I JUST ASKED FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND BEING ABLE TO USE THE CABINS, UM, NOT JUST WHEN I HAVE AN EVENT, BUT TO BE ABLE TO USE THEM SEPARATELY SO THAT PEOPLE CAN COME AND EXPERIENCE THE VINEYARD AND STAY THERE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR ME? NOPE.
ARE THERE ANY MADAM CHAIR? I JUST HAVE A COMMENT.
UH, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CUZ MY FATHER-IN-LAW HAD A, UH, PUMPKIN FARM.
YOU KNOW, HE, HE HAD ABOUT 200 ACRES AND HE TRIED RAISING, UH, CATTLE AND, AND FINALLY IT CAME DOWN TO THE ONLY WAY THAT HE WAS ABLE TO BREAK EVEN WAS TO, FOR THOSE THREE MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR TO, TO, UH, SELL THOUSANDS OF PUMPKINS AND, AND HAVE SCHOOLS AND, AND ALL THOSE FOLKS COME IN.
SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
IT IS UNDERNEATH YOUR LIFE AND, AND HAVING A FARM AND WE'RE, WE HAVE DONE SOME, UM, CHANGES BECAUSE YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO KEEP LOSING MONEY YEAR, YEAR AFTER YEAR.
I'M GLAD TO SEE CATTLE PRICES ARE UP FOR THOSE THAT ARE STILL, UH, RAISING CATTLE.
UM, THE OTHER THING THAT, YOU KNOW, I APPLAUD WHAT YOU'RE DOING, IT'S BEAUTIFUL.
UM, AND PAGE COUNTY IS GOT THE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A, A BIG EVENT CENTER GOING UP.
AND THEY GOT WAY MORE THAN 20 CABINS GOING ON UP THERE.
SO IF THEY'RE COMING THROUGH WARREN COUNTY, GOING TO PAGE COUNTY TO SPEND THEIR MONEY THAT YOU, WHICH YOU WANNA DO, WOULD CAPTURE SOME OF THAT.
UM, SO I, UM, WE HAVE A BEAUTIFUL COMMUNITY AND WE, YES, WE DO HAVE A LOT OF STARVING PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING TO SELL THEIR, YOUR GOODS IN THEIR STORES AND THIS WOULD KEEP THEM HERE.
AND I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T PUT COOKING IN THE CABIN SO THAT THEY WOULD GO OUT HOPEFULLY AND PATRONIZE OUR SHOPS.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? SO, SO I'M LOOKING AT, UM, B I THINK THAT BE IS WHAT THE GOAL WAS.
SO I, I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS WITH SENATOR URBAN SHANE BECAUSE
[01:00:01]
A AGRITOURISM HAS BEEN A KIND OF A, UM, A PASSION OF WHAT I THINK OUR COMMUNITY SHOULD BE PURSUING AS PART OF OUR TOURISM ENTITY.AND I DO KNOW THAT THE STATE HAS NOT WELL DEFINED THIS A AGRITOURISM PIECE CUZ SHELLY'S GOT A HYBRID.
SHE DOESN'T JUST HAVE A RURAL EVENT CENTER SITTING ON A PIECE OF FARMLAND THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY FARMING ATTACHED TO IT.
SHE HAS, SO I HAVE LOOKED, THERE ARE REGULATIONS FOR HER VINEYARD.
THERE ARE REGULATIONS FOR RURAL EVENTS, BUT THERE ARE NO REGULATORY DEFINITIONS FOR AG AGRITOURISM IN THE WAY SHE'S DOING IT.
AND SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WARREN COUNTY, AS ALWAYS IS PIONEERING
NOW MY QUESTION FOR YOU CHASE, AND FOR YOU MATT, IS WHEN AND IF THE FOLKS IN RICHMOND DECIDE TO DEFINE THIS, WILL SHE BE ABLE TO MODIFY WHAT SHE'S DOING OR WILL THAT BE CONSIDERED GRANDFATHERING? SO SAY THEY DEREGULATE SOME OF THE THINGS YOU AND I ARE TALKING ABOUT, WILL WE GO BACK AND MODIFY HER C P OR IS SHE GONNA BE, OR THE TEXT AMENDMENT STAYS? HOW DOES THAT WORK? WELL, WE, WE WOULD FOLLOW WHAT THEN THEY HAVE HAVE, RIGHT? THAT THEY HAVE ADOPTED
THE COUNTY CODE WOULD BE PREEMPTED BY THE STATE CODE.
BECAUSE THEY'RE CURRENTLY TRYING TO MAKE, TO PUT SOME DEFINITION AROUND THIS BECAUSE THIS IS AN INITIATIVE BY THE ENTIRE STATE TO, SO THEN WE REVISE OUR ORDINANCE TOO.
SO OUR ORDINANCE WOULD JUST BE REVISED.
SO SHE WOULD OKAY, BECAUSE THAT I TALKED TO SENATOR OPEN SHANE AND HE WASN'T ABLE TO HELP BECAUSE AT THIS POINT THERE ISN'T DEFINITION AROUND WHAT THE LODGING WITH THIS AGRA COMPONENT IS,
WELL, CAN I ASK WHY? WHERE ARE THESE ARBITRARY NUMBERS TO BEGIN WITH? WHY WOULD WE SAY THREE DAYS? I MEAN, PERSONALLY, AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT LIVING THERE YEAR ROUND, UM, WHY DO WE, I THINK THREE DAYS CARE FOR THREE DAYS OR SEVEN DAYS.
I THINK IT CAME FROM THE HEALTH PERMIT PER CORRECT.
AND ALSO I DO WANT TO NOTE THAT THE, THE WAY THE CODE IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN, IT ONLY ALLOWS FOR A SINGLE DAY.
IT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR OVERNIGHT STAYS, IT ALLOWS FOR EVENTS CONDUCTED ON A SINGLE DAY, BUT YET WE HAVE SHORT TERM RENTALS THAT CAN BE A A WEEK OR 30, 29 DAYS.
AND ALSO, I'LL NOTE THAT THAT IS A SEPARATE PRINCIPLE USE THAT WE CURRENTLY ALLOW BY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE SPLITTING A HAIR.
SORRY, I JUST, WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT ORDINANCES THAT ARE OVERLAPPING.
TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, MY QUESTION, MY COMMENT, MY COMMENT WITH THE NEW REQUIREMENTS THAT MS. COOK HAS BROUGHT TO THE, TO THE TABLE, IF YOU WILL, WHICH IS NOT PART OF OUR PACKAGE.
WE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU WORK TOGETHER, WE GOTTA KEEP IN MIND THIS IS AN ORDINANCE FOR THE COUNTY, NOT JUST FOR MS. COOK'S PROPERTY.
I KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO WORK WITH YOU, I KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO MOLD REGULATIONS TOGETHER TO MAKE THIS RIGHT, BUT WE GOTTA KEEP, LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE HERE.
SO WITH, WITH YOUR, YOU KNOW, UH, REQUESTS OF CHANGING SOME OF THESE REQUIREMENTS, I HOPE THAT WE KEEP IN MIND THAT NOT ALL PROPERTIES ARE GONNA BE LIKE MS. COOK'S PROPERTY, RIGHT? CORRECT.
AND IF YOU WERE TO SAVE IT, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, 100 FEET FROM ALL PROPERTY LINES, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD AGREE AND SAY THAT THAT SHOULD APPLY AND IT IS A SUPPLEMENTAL REGULATION SO WE COULD BRING IT BACK AS A C MODIFICATION AND WAIVE THAT REQUIREMENT.
SO I JUST WANT, JUST, JUST A COMMENT.
AND THEN, UM, YOU KNOW, I'M WITH B OPTION B, YOU KNOW, AND I UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE, THE, UM, THE DEFINITION THAT WE'RE, WE'RE FIGHTING WITH RIGHT NOW.
UM, AND I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH AN EVENT, PUN ATTENDED, BUT YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU CANNOT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE IT WITH THE ECONOMIC FACTORS THAT MAY COME FORWARD WITH US AND YOU WANTED TO MAINTAIN A, A REVENUE FLOW TO MAINTAIN THE WINERY AND, AND THAT KIND OF THING? YOU KNOW, UM,
[01:05:01]
I, YOU KNOW, I, I'M KIND OF CAUGHT IN BETWEEN ORDINANCES, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS ORDINANCE IS ABOUT RURAL EVENTS.WHAT MS. COOK IS TALKING ABOUT IS SHORT-TERM RENTALS, YOU KNOW, SO HOW DO WE INTEGRATE THAT? THAT'S INTO THIS ORDINANCE? IT'S, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO WRAP MY ARMS AROUND.
THAT'S BEEN OUR CHALLENGE FROM THE VERY, VERY START
YEAH, I MEAN WE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTALS BEFORE.
MY SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTAL, IS THAT A RESIDENTIAL OR IS THAT A COMMERCIAL? REALLY? I MEAN, IN REALITY IT'S A HYBRID, YOU KNOW? MM-HMM.
THE STATE HAS DETERMINED AND MADE THE, THE DECISION, THIS IS A RESIDENTIAL.
I MEAN, AND THAT'S WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION USUALLY HAS, THEIR DECISION MAKING PROCESS.
UH, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A RESIDENTIAL, IT'S, THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE COMMERCIAL ASPECT OF IT.
IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY LISTED USE FOR THIS HYBRID TYPE USE THAT, AND, AND GRANTED IT, IT IS INNOVATIVE.
I MEAN, I'M NOT DENYING THAT WE ARE NOT DENYING THAT, BUT WE HAVE OUR CODE TO LOOK AT AND SAY, WELL, WHERE DOES THIS FIT? OKAY.
AND SO WE'VE LOOKED AT THE VARIOUS DEFINITIONS FOR VARIOUS THINGS SUCH AS THE HOTEL MOTEL AND THE, THE, UH, COMMERCIAL CAMPGROUND AND, AND THAT KIND OF THING.
WE, AND FROM REALLY THE START, WE'VE KIND OF FELT LEAN MORE TOWARD, THIS IS MORE OF A COMMERCIAL CAMPGROUND NOW.
IF YOU, THE RURAL EVENT FACILITY, I JUST MENTIONED THIS KIND OF, WHERE WE CAME UP WITH THAT WAS THE THOUGHT THAT A WEDDING VENUE IS TYPICALLY GONNA BE MAYBE A THREE DAY THING.
WE'RE NOT IN, IN A, A ANOTHER COUNTRY WHERE SOMETIMES THEY'LL CELEBRATE THE WHOLE WEEK.
I MEAN, TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, THE, THE GUEST PARTY WILL GET THERE ON A FRIDAY AND THEY'LL GET PREPARED AND EVERYTHING.
THE WEDDING WILL GO ON, MAYBE THEY'LL STAY OVER FOR ANOTHER NIGHT OR TWO.
SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE CAME UP IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT WITH THAT THREE DAY.
NOT TO SAY IT'S WRITTEN IN STONE, I'M JUST SAYING THIS IS A LOGIC THAT WE CAME UP WITH.
AND WE WERE TRYING, AGAIN, TO DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM A SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTAL, WHEREAS A SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTAL, I MEAN, PEOPLE WILL COME FOR THE WEEKEND, BUT THEY HAVE THAT OPTION TO STAY UP TO 29 DAYS, 30 DAYS.
THEY CAN, AND THEY MAY STAY FOR A WEEK.
BUT IN THIS RURAL EVENTS FACILITY, WE'RE JUST, WE'VE TRIED TO TIE IT TO THAT SPECIFIC USE.
NOW WE'VE ALSO HAD OUR HANDS TIED A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TOLD NOT TO LOOK AT ANOTHER, USE ANOTHER LISTED USE, CREATE ANOTHER LISTED USE, WHICH WOULD REQUIRE MS. COOK TO GO THROUGH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THAT PARTICULAR USE, THAT NEW LISTED USE.
SO NOT TO SAY THAT WE'RE NOT OPEN TO DOING THAT, BUT YOU KNOW, WE'VE TRIED TO WORK WITHIN THAT TIMELINE FOR HER.
AND, AND AT DIRECTION FROM YOU.
WE'VE, WE'VE TRIED TO DO THAT AND WE'VE TRIED TO COME UP WITH, WITH SOMETHING THAT WILL WORK IN A FAIR WAY TO ACCOMMODATE WHAT HER VISION IS TO, YOU KNOW, FOR THE PROPERTY.
NOW THE CHALLENGE IS, IS THE AG TOURISM ASPECT OF IT, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE STATE IS NOT LISTING LODGING AS, AS A PART OF THAT PARTICULAR USE.
SO, WHICH IS BIZARRE BECAUSE TOURISM IN ITS OWN DEFINITION IS LODGING.
SO YOU'VE GOT AGRICULTURAL LODGING, YET YOU HAVE NO DEFINITION FOR IT.
AND I JUST WANNA SAY THAT THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH PERMIT, THAT WAS JUST A TYPO.
SO THEY BASICALLY, WHEN THEY DID THAT, THEY'RE DOING IT.
IT WAS JUST, I GAVE THEM NUMBERS WHEN WE WERE ORIGINALLY DOING THE CALCULATIONS.
SO YOU'LL HAVE A REVISED PERMIT FOR THAT.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND.
I GUESS I'M THINKING BEYOND JUST WEDDINGS.
LIKE IF YOU GET A FAMILY REUNION WHERE YOU'VE GOT FAMILY COMING FROM ALL ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, THAT WOULD BE A PERFECT PLACE FOR TRYING, YOU COULD HAVE YOUR EVENT AND EVERYBODY STAYS, YOU KNOW? YEAH.
THAT'S WHERE, WHERE WE MOVED IT TO SEVEN DAYS JUST BECAUSE OF THAT SCENARIO.
UP A DISTANCE AND WELL, IN EVENTS, I MEAN, IT'S, THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED AN EVENT CENTER BECAUSE THERE'S GONNA BE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO COME AND RUN IT.
WE HAVE NOTHING IN WARREN COUNTY.
AND IF YOU HAVE SOMEBODY THAT WANTS, EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT STAYING OVERNIGHT ON THE PROPERTY, BUT THEY WANT TO USE THE CENTER FOR SEVEN DAYS RESPECTIVELY, YOU KNOW.
THE, THE, UH, YOU KNOW, THE WHEN, UH, WHEN MY DAUGHTER GOT MARRIED UP IN, IN VERMONT, UH, IT WAS KIND OF QUASI HALFWAY POINT BECAUSE HER, HER HUSBAND IS FROM MAINE AND OF COURSE WE'RE IN, IN VIRGINIA.
[01:10:01]
LIVED IN VERMONT AND THEY FIGURED, OKAY, THAT'S, AND THE REASON I BRING THAT UP IS BECAUSE FAMILY NOT ONLY CAME THERE FOR THREE DAYS, THAT THEY HAD SOME FAMILY MEMBERS THERE FOR SEVEN DAYS OR 10 WEEKS BE, OR 10 DAYS BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO ENJOY VERMONT ALONG WITH RIGHT.GOING TO THE, SO, OH, EXACTLY.
I'VE HAD ALREADY HAD PEOPLE CONTACT ME THAT WANNA COME IN ON MONDAY AND THEIR WEDDING IS ON SATURDAY, BUT THEY WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE LOCAL SURROUNDINGS AND THEN STAY THERE SO THAT THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, CUZ THEY'RE IN DC THEY DON'T WANT TO TRAVEL BACK AND FORTH WHEN THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, GETTING READY FOR THEIR WEDDING.
SO, UM, THAT WAS JUST SOME OF THE THINGS, THAT'S WHY I KIND OF SAID THAT MAYBE THERE COULD BE A SUBSECTION TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITH THE TEXT AMENDMENT THAT SAID IF TO ADDRESS MRS. COOK'S CONCERNS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE SAYS IF IT'S ON A WORKING ACTIVE FARM, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW.
IT ACTUALLY USED TO SAY THAT IN THE VERY BEGINNING WHEN YOU FIRST CAME, WHEN WE WROTE IT FOR YOUR USE, BUT THEN IT GOT TAKEN OUT.
I DON'T REMEMBER, I CAN'T REMEMBER.
BUT I DO AGREE THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING GOOD TO ADD HIM.
I THINK THAT THAT WOULD GIVE THE DEFINITION AND THE SEPARATION BETWEEN OTHER APPLICANTS THAT WOULD BE SUBMITTING TO THE BOARD FOR SIMILAR USES.
IF IT SAID, IS IT AN AC IF IT'S AN ACTIVE FARM, THEN THESE THINGS WOULD OCCUR BECAUSE NOT MANY PEOPLE ARE GONNA HAVE 80 ACRES WHEN THEY DO THIS RURAL EVENT CENTER.
AND IF YOU THINK OF A RURAL EVENT CENTER, YOU THINK IT'S JUST A PERSONAL LAND THAT SOMEBODY WANTS TO USE TO PUT A BUILDING ON WITH ME.
IT'S KIND OF MIXED AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH BECAUSE IT, IT IS A ACTIVE FARM.
SO WE ARE GOING TO BE EBBING AND WEAVING THESE VINES EVEN THROUGH THE COTTAGES SO THAT THEY GET A FULL EXPERIENCE.
SO THERE'LL BE 40 ACRES OF VINEYARD THERE WHEN WE'RE AT MAX BUILDOUT.
SO, AND WE ALSO KEPT THE WOODLAND AREA AND WE'RE DOING SOME OF THE CABINS BACK IN THE WOODLAND.
SO YOU'LL ONLY SEE FROM THE ROAD ABOUT FIVE OF THESE CABINS.
THE REST OF 'EM WILL BE IN THE WOODLAND.
AND WE'RE DOING THAT BECAUSE WE WANTED TO RESERVE, YOU KNOW, PRESERVE RATHER THE INTEGRITY AND HAVE LESS ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT.
IT'S GONNA BE VERY RARE THAT YOU FOUND A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO INCORPORATE THAT ON.
SO WHAT WILL YOU BE DOING WITH THE OTHER 40 ACRES? IS THAT GONNA BE LEFT IN WOODLAND OR ARE YOU GONNA HAVE BE GROUND? NO, IT'S VALLEYS.
SO THE TOPO OF THE LAND IS ROLLING.
AND SO A LOT OF IT IS LIKE DOWN SLOPE OF THE VINES.
WE LOST ABOUT 15 ACRES IN JUST SLOPE MICROPHONE, JUST 15 ACRES IN SLOPE.
SO, SO ARE, ARE YOU GONNA BE GROWING ANYTHING ELSE? LIKE, UH, YOU KNOW, CORN, SOYBEANS? IT'S FUNNY THAT YOU SAID THAT.
SO I'M WORKING WITH VIRGINIA TECH TO TRY TO DO TWO DIFFERENT GREENHOUSES.
WHERE WE CAN DO, UM, AQUAPONICS AND ACTUALLY DO MICROGREEN GREENHOUSES TO BE ABLE TO HOPEFULLY BRING THAT PART OF VENDOR CULTURE.
IT GOES IN THE, SO WHERE YOU'RE LOSING, UM, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND IT'LL BE BASICALLY THE FIRST IN THE STATE.
HOW MANY ARE THE HOUSES MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF A SMALL HOUSE AND THE SET DISTANCE SEPARATION BETWEEN HOUSES? I, I SEEM LIKE I REMEMBER YOU SAYING THAT THERE WERE SOME THAT REQUIRED LESS THAN A HUNDRED FEET SEPARATION BETWEEN THEM.
IT WAS 20 FEET AND THE CODE, IT SAID HE WAS ASKING FOR 30 AND I ASKED IF WE COULD REDUCE THAT TO 20 BECAUSE THE BUILDING CODE THAT I ADHERE TO IS 15 FEET FROM THE SIDELINES.
SO I WAS SAYING COULD WE REDUCE THAT TO 20 SEEMS THAT THE CABINS ARE ON A SITUATED HILLSIDE.
THAT 15 FOOT SIDE SETBACK TIMES TWO.
SO BOTH BUILDINGS WOULD BE 15 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, WHICH MAKES A TOTAL OF 30 FEET OF SEPARATION.
THAT'S HOW IT CAME UP WITH THAT.
SO IT'S ACTUALLY 15 FEET THOUGH IN BETWEEN THEM.
SO WE'RE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING FROM OUR, UM, OUR SHORT-TERM RENTAL REQUIREMENTS REQUIRE US TO BE A HUNDRED FEET FROM WELLS AND RIGHT.
SEPARATION BETWEEN HOUSES AND ALL.
WE'RE NOT MAKING ANY OF THOSE CHAN TYPES OF CHANGES? NO, NO.
IT WOULD BE SIMILAR TO IF YOU HAD TWO SEPARATE PARCELS AND YOU WOULD BE 15 FEET FROM EACH SIDE SETBACK.
AND SO WE JUST DOUBLED THAT AS CHASE MENTIONED.
SO THAT'S HOW WE CAME UP WITH A 30.
[01:15:01]
OF THAT.BECAUSE I MEAN, WE DO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAINTAIN WHAT OUR REQUIREMENTS ARE FOR, UM, A SHORT TERM RENTAL NOW AND WE SHOULDN'T DEVIATE FROM THAT.
I MEAN THE SHORT TERM TAURUS RENTAL AND, AND, AND MS. COOK HAS APPLIED FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR ABSOLUTELY A VACANT LOT THAT SHE HAS, UH, IS GONNA BUILD A HOUSE ON AND THAT WILL MEET ALL THE REQUIRED SETBACKS FOR THE UNDERLYING ZONING DISTRICT.
AND UH, YOU KNOW, I THINK SHE'S GONNA PUT IT IN THE LOCATION.
IT'LL MEET THE A HUNDRED FOOT IS THAT BACK FOR THE SHORT TERM DOORS RENTAL.
SO WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE AN ISSUE THERE.
IT'S JUST THESE TI THESE SMALLER CABINS ARE KIND OF, IT'S A NEW, IT'S NEW IT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOME, SOME IN, IN OUR COMMERCIAL CAMPGROUNDS THAT ARE IN COMMERCIALLY ZONED AREAS.
NOT EXACTLY, BUT SOMETHING SIMILAR.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, AND THEY'RE MOSTLY JUST KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE PRIMITIVE, A LITTLE BIT MORE PRIMITIVE CAMPING THAN WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING.
UM, NOW, UH, NORFORK DOES HAVE SOME, YOU KNOW, NICER, SMALLER KIND OF COTTAGES.
UM, AND SOME OF 'EM ARE ON WHEELS THAT THEY CAN MOVE AND WHATNOT.
BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS IS INNOVATIVE.
IT'S NEW, IT'S A, IT'S, YOU CAN CALL IT A HYBRID IF YOU WANT, WHATEVER HOW.
BUT, UH, WE'RE JUST TRYING, WE'RE TRYING TO WORK WITHIN THE PUBLIC SAFETY, YOU KNOW, HEALTH, WELFARE AND SAFETY OF, OF THE CODE AND GOOD ZONING PRACTICE.
AND THESE ARE GETTING, UM, INSPECTED BY THE WARREN COUNTY BUILDING OFFICIALS OFFICE.
I CHECKED WITH MR. BEAM ON THESE
I CHECKED WITH HIM AND HE, YEAH.
SO THESE ARE ALL GETTING CHECKED OUT JUST LIKE IF NO MATTER IF WE BUILT SOMETHING THAT WAS MUCH LARGER, SO THEY'LL BE SUITABLE FOR LIVING AS IF IT, IT, IT ISN'T LIKE THE, THE MOVABLE CABINS DOWN AT NORTH FORK, CUZ I DOUBT THOSE HAVE TO BE INSPECTED.
AND I HAVE BEEN BUILDING ON AND OFF SINCE 2003.
SO YEAH, I, I'LL JUST MENTION TOO IS WE, WE KIND OF LOOKED AT THIS AND WE'VE USED SLIDING SCALES FOR INTENSITY USE IN SOME OF OUR OTHER ORDINANCES.
YOU KNOW, THE COMMERCIAL KENNEL ORDINANCES, YOU KNOW, IS ONE, UH, EVEN FOR, UH, A VACANT LOT WITH UH, UH, AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
WE KIND OF USED A A SCALE ON THAT AND, AND IN THIS PARTICULAR AMENDMENT WE LOOKED AT THE ACREAGE TO THE AMOUNT OF HOMES THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED.
AND SO WE CAME UP WITH THAT AND BE, CUZ MS. COOK HAS, UH, I THINK WHAT OVER, WAS IT 43 ACRES? 40? WELL, THERE'S TWO TRACKS.
SO IT, IT'S ACTUALLY IN THREE TRACKS, THE WHOLE FARM.
SO IT'S 43.5, IT'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE GOING UP TO 48 BECAUSE WE'RE MERGING ANOTHER PIECE.
AND THEN THERE'S, UM, A 32 ACRE PIECE.
AND THEN THERE'S A FIVE ACRE TRACK.
SO WE CAME UP WITH A, A, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY A 20, A 30 AND A 40.
AND THAT'S GONNA BE YOUR ALLOW US TO GAUGE JUST HOW MANY HOMES WOULD BE ABLE TO PUT ON THAT SPECIFIC LOT.
UM, YOU KNOW, AND SO WHICH ACCOMMODATES MS. COOK'S PLANS FOR HER IN HER VISION FOR HER LOT.
SO, UH, AGAIN, IT, IT WILL BE INTERESTING.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IF THIS IS APPROVED, IT, YOU KNOW, AS MS. COOK SAID IT'S GONNA BE A PHASED APPROACH.
AND, AND, UM, WE'VE ALSO HAD DISCUSSIONS, UM, ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WITH THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT REQUIREMENTS AND EVERYTHING AND, AND OBVIOUSLY THAT WILL IMPACT, YOU KNOW, THE, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER PLAN SHE HAS BECAUSE THOSE ARE STATE REGULATIONS THAT HAVE TO BE ADHERED TO.
I'M LOOKING AT THE DEFINITION OF THE ROLE EVENTS FACILITY AND WE HAVE ADDED, UM, A SENTENCE THAT SAYS LODGING UNITS FOR EVENT GUESTS ARE PERMITTED AS AN ASSESSOR ACCESSORY USE TO THE ROLE EVENTS FACILITY FACILITY UNLESS OTHERWISE DISALLOWED OR LIMITED IN THE CONDITIONAL USE MENT AND SHALL COMPLY WITH SUPPLEMENTARY UH, REGULATIONS.
THAT IN ITSELF TO ME SAYS IT ALL, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE NEED TO ADD THIS IN SECTION B, PARAGRAPH TWO.
SO, UM, PART OF THAT, WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I JUST WANNA CLARIFY THE LANGUAGE THAT OTHERWISE, UNLESS OTHERWISE DISALLOWED, THAT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO APPROVE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR JUST THE EVENTS FACILITY AND BY CONDITION RESTRICT LODGING UNITS IF THERE IS A FUTURE APPLICANT THAT ALLOWS YOU A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBILITY.
SO AS FAR AS THE GENERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR THE, UM,
[01:20:01]
FOR THE LODGING UNITS AND THE USAGE OF THEM, UM, SO, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU GOT, YOU, YOU ASKED THAT WE BUILD THIS CODE OUT FOR IT TO BE ACCESSORY.SO AN ACCESSORY USE IS A USE OF A LAND OR BUILDING OR PORTION THEREOF, CUSTOMARILY, INCIDENTAL, AND SUBORDINATE TO THE PRINCIPAL USE.
SO WE FIND THAT THOSE REQUIREMENTS ARE WHAT MAKES IT ACCESSORY.
I'LL BE GLAD WHEN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA GETS DEFINITION AROUND IT BECAUSE IT'S JUST, IT'S SO CONVOLUTED BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO FIT SOMETHING INTO A LAND USE THAT ISN'T WHAT WE, THAT ISN'T A DEFINED LAND USE.
AND SO IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED, UM, SO THAT WE CAN DEFINE IT BECAUSE IT, IT IS I THINK A WONDERFUL WAY TO MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF FARMLAND AND TO U TO USE IT IN THE SECOND LARGEST INDUSTRY IN VIRGINIA, WHICH IS TOURISM.
AND I'M JUST THINKING WHY ISN'T THIS DEFINED ALREADY
WELL, I, I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO, TO ACCOMPLISH HERE IS, IS ACCOMPLISHED IS, IS, UM, THAT WE WERE TRYING NOT TO IMPOSE ANY, UM, CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS.
AND THAT'S WHAT STARTED ALL OF THIS.
AND I THINK THAT, UM, LISTENING TO EVERYBODY AT EVERYONE HAS VALID POINTS.
AND, UM, I THINK, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GET TOGETHER AND TRY TO MESH, PUT THIS TOGETHER, THAT'S APPEASABLE TO EVERYBODY, BUT KEEP IT IN MIND THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A COUNTY ORDINANCE MM-HMM.
AND ALSO TO THE POINT THAT WE DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION OF WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.
AND OF COURSE OUR LEGAL TEAM IS HAPPY WITH IT.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A BIG TASK OR NOT, BUT, UM, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A WORKING SESSION
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENT OR ANY OTHER, SO THIS WILL GO ON NEXT WEEK'S, UM, VOTING IS IT ON NEXT WEEK? IT'S ON THE 28TH.
THAT'S WHEN WE DO JOINT, SO THE 28TH.
AND SO BY THEN THIS WILL BE A DETERMINED, SO IT SOUNDS I LIKE B, YOU LIKE B I LIKE B, BUT I, AND I HAVE TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I'M STRUGGLING A LITTLE BIT OF, OF IT BEING, UM, ONLY PERMITTED IN CONJUNCTION WITH AN EVENT.
RIGHT NOW I DON'T SEE, I THINK IT, IT, IT SHOULD TIE INTO IT BECAUSE OF THE ORDINANCE THAT'S UNDER A FACILITY.
BUT THEN WHEN I LOOK UP HERE, I MEAN IT STATES AT THE, THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE PARAGRAPH THAT KIND OF, WELL, I HAVE TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, IF I CAN'T USE THEM, OTHERWISE I WOULDN'T BUILD THEM BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SUPPORT, BECAUSE YOU CAN NEVER SAY IF YOU'RE RENT THAT VENUE.
UM, IF I DON'T GET 25 BOOKINGS OF WEDDINGS, THEN BASICALLY THOSE CABINS ARE, ARE GONNA SIT EMPTY AND THERE'S NO WAY THAT I CAN ECONOMICALLY AFFORD TO BUILD AN $80,000 CABIN ON A PIECE OF LAND AND NOT BE ABLE TO RUN IT EXCEPT FOR IF THAT BARN IS RENTED.
BECAUSE THERE'S NO SAYING ONE MAY HAVE TO OFFSET THE OTHER, THE WHOLE PURPOSE WAS TO KNOW THAT IF I RENTED THE WEDDING BARN, THOSE FEW CABINS COULD BE RENTED.
OR IF I DIDN'T RENT THE WEDDING BARN, I COULD STILL HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF GETTING SOME TIEBACK WITH AIRBNB OR SOMETHING TO GET THOSE RENTED.
AND THAT'S JUST HOW YOU HAVE TO DO IT BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET, SO TO SPEAK.
UM, I UNDERSTAND YOU NEED TO DIVERSIFY YOUR, YOUR REVENUE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST THAT WE'RE CAUGHT BETWEEN REGULATIONS.
OH, I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
IT'S JUST A HARD THING TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD.
I JUST DON'T THINK IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT AS FAR AS TYING IT TO THAT VENUE.
I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING WITH THE C P AND ALL THAT, BUT IF IT'S THERE, I THINK YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO INTERCHANGEABLY RENT THEM.
SO, BUT THAT'S, I DON'T HAVE THE SAME THINGS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE TO DEAL WITH AND I RESPECT YOUR YEAH, THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE, WELL I THINK AN EVENT COULD BE A GLASS OF WINE AT YOUR WINERY, SO I'M GOOD WITH THAT.
I MEAN, YEAH, I MEAN, EVENT TO ME IS THAT'S, IT'S GOING OUT AND SEVEN NIGHTS A WEEK, THE FAMILY TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, SO WELL THERE'S, THERE'S GONNA BE EVENTS THERE EVERY WEEK AND IT'S ALL ON THE SAME PARCEL.
SO HOPEFULLY WE CAN MAKE THIS WORK SO THAT I'LL BE ABLE TO, TO DO THIS BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS SPENT HERE BASED UPON THE C THAT I ORIGINALLY HAD THAT I THOUGHT THAT I HAD THESE CABINS WITH.
SO HOPEFULLY WE CAN FIGURE, YEAH, I DON'T THINK THE EVENT HAS TO BE A WEDDING.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A WEDDING.
NO, IT'S A BIRTHDAY EVENT YOU HAVE, IT'S A BIRTHDAY ANNIVERSARY EVENT, IN FACT.
YEAH, IT SAYS IT RIGHT UP HERE.
IF WE DID B, THE, I MEAN A, IT REQUIRES ME TO
[01:25:01]
KEEP LIKE RECORD KEEPING OF HOW IT'S, HOW IT'S TIED TOGETHER AND THERE'S NO WAY THAT I COULD TIE AN EVENT.LIKE YOU SAID, THERE'S AN EVENT EVERY, EVERY WEEK.
I MEAN, YOU COULD SAY IT'S HAPPY, YOU KNOW, ST.
I MEAN, RIGHT HERE IT SAYS, UM, ATTENDANCE IS PERMITTED BY INVITATION OR RESERVATION FACILITIES MAY HOST USUAL AND CUSTOMARY ACTIVITIES INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO PRIVATE PARTIES, BUSINESS MEETINGS, EDUCATIONAL SEMINARS, WEDDING RECEPTIONS, CEREMONIES, CLASS REUNIONS, BABY SHOWERS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
SO IT IT'S A BROAD DEFINITION OF AN EVENT.
SO I THINK TYING IT TO THE EVENT HELPED SEPARATE IT FROM THE SHORT TERM RENTAL DEFINITION.
THAT'S, YEAH, THAT WAS THAT WHOLE, THAT WAS THE WHOLE THING.
BUT IS SHE REQUIRED TO THEN ON A WEEKLY, MONTHLY, EVERY SIX MONTHS, SEND A REPORT IN? THERE'S NO SAYING THERE'S NO REQUIRE, THERE'S NOTHING BUILT INTO THE ORDINANCE FOR IT.
AND WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY CONDITIONS THE ADDED THAT REQUIRE THAT.
BECAUSE THEN, SO SHE COULD HAVE A PARTY THERE, THERE COULD BE A PRE BRIDAL PARTY AT THE, UH, THAT ISN'T USING THE EVENT CENTER, BUT MIGHT BE HELD AT THE VINEYARD AND THE PEOPLE WANNA STAY.
I I BELIEVE SHE MAY HAVE TO REPORT THAT TO THE COMMISSIONER REVENUE FOR TRANSIENT LODGING THOUGH.
AND SEE THAT'S WHERE IT'S GONNA, IF YOU CAN'T USE THEM INTERCHANGEABLY, I DON'T, I DON'T, I REALLY DON'T KNOW.
BUT IF YOU DON'T USE THEM INTERCHANGEABLY, LIKE YOU SAID, BECAUSE THERE MAY BE PEOPLE THAT JUST WANT TO COME AND USE THE EVENT CENTER FOR THE DAY FOR ONE DAY, BUT THEY'RE THERE FOR THREE NIGHTS.
SO HOW DO YOU TIE THAT IN? THAT'S A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE BECAUSE THEY'RE ONLY USING IT FOR ONE DAY, BUT THEY'D LIKE TO STAY AT THE LODGING FOR THREE DAYS.
WELL THEN THAT'S, IF I'M BEING HONEST, THAT'S NOT AN APPROPRIATE USE.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I SAID INTERCHANGEABLY, IT JUST, I HAVE SO MANY THINGS ALREADY THAT I HAVE TO KEEP UP WITH WITH THIS FARM AND TO ADD ANY MORE BECOMES JUST OVERWHELMING GUYS.
IT'S JUST, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX IT.
WHETHER IT'S THAT YOU GUYS DO SOME SORT OF, IF IT'S A FEE I HAVE TO PAY WHERE IT BECOMES THAT THEY ARE PART OF YOUR SHORT TERM RENTALS OR WHATEVER WE HAVE TO DO.
BUT I JUST CAN'T TIE IT TO WHERE, AND I WON'T BE DISHONEST.
I'M NOT, AND IF I'M GONNA USE THOSE CABINS FOR SEVEN DAYS, I'M GONNA SAY IT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO EVER DO SOMETHING.
I HAVE A LOT OF INTEGRITY AND I JUST, I WANT TO BE HONEST AND UPFRONT AND WORK IT OUT THE RIGHT WAY.
WELL, WELL ISN'T THAT SOMETHING SHE COULD WORK WITH MRS. HOURS ON A, THE LODGING PART? WELL, I THINK, I MEAN I THINK THE WHOLE, THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT WAS JUST TASKED WITH FITTING THIS UNDER HER CURRENT C P IF SHE WOULD'VE GOTTEN A C P FOR A SHORT TERM RENTALS, THIS WOULDN'T EVEN BE A, WE WOULDN'T EVEN BE HAVING THIS DISCUSS DISCUSSION.
AND THERE WOULDN'T BE, IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE INTERCHANGEABLE.
THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO FUNCTION INDEPENDENTLY WHENEVER, HOWEVER, WHATEVER, YOU KNOW.
BUT I THINK THEY WERE TRYING TO FIT IT UNDER THE RURAL EVENTS FACILITY C P THAT SHE ALREADY HAS.
SO I DON'T, SO IT'S MY, I DON'T KNOW HOW THE LODGING TAX WOULD WORK WITH THAT.
NO, IT TO ME THAT, MY UNDERSTANDING WITH THIS WHOLE THING IS THAT IF WE PASS THE TAX AMENDMENT, THAT GIVES HER AN ACCESSORY RIGHT.
TO USE THOSE BUILDINGS IN, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT ENTIRE PROPERTY.
NONE OF US HAVE DEFINED EVENT.
SO WHATEVER EVENT IS
WELL, THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, THAT IS THE POINT.
I MEAN THAT'S, I AGREE WITH THAT.
THAT'S WHY IT WAS WRITTEN LIKE THAT.
MY HEAD'S GONNA SEE THAT'S WHY I WAS TRYING TO SEPARATE SHORT TOUR.
SO WE JUST WOULD, VERSUS EVENTS B IS THE ONE THAT FITS WHAT I NEED TO DO LONG AND SHORT.
AND IT WOULD HELP MAKE IT SO THAT IT'S CLEAR.
UM, I THINK HAVING IT TIED TO THE EVENT WAS THE WHOLE THING TO SEPARATE IT FROM A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
EVENT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A WEDDING.
THERE'S A LOT THAT'S, I JUST DON'T WANNA BE IN THE, YOU GUYS COULD ALL GO AWAY.
AND THEN I'M TIED AND VICE VERSA.
SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEREAS WE KNOW YOU'RE GONNA DO RIGHT.
YOU, I MEAN WE DON'T, WE HAVE TO PLAN FOR IF, IF THE NEXT PROPERTY OWNER CUZ IT RUNS WITH THE PROPERTY WELLS.
I THINK THAT THAT CLEARLY SHOWS THAT THEY CAN'T DO IT EITHER.
I THINK SEVEN DAYS DOES WHAT IT, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWING SOMEBODY TO BE THERE FOR 30 DAYS.
YOU'RE NOT ALLOWING IT WHERE A SHORT-TERM RENTAL CAN AND THAT'S WRITTEN YOUR CONTRACT.
AND THIS IS EXACTLY, AND THIS IS SEVEN DAYS.
[01:30:01]
B CLEARLY DEFINES THAT THEY CAN'T BE THERE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.SHORT TERM RENTAL, I COULD DO THAT FOR ALL 30 DAYS.
SO TO ME, NOBODY'S GONNA BUY A PROPERTY FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL THAT THEY CAN'T LEASE IT OUT FOR LONGER PERIODS BECAUSE SOMETIMES THAT'S OUR BEST BET.
ONLY OTHER COMMENT COMPLICATED.
CEL, YOU'RE SUCH A PIONEER THAT THESE THINGS YEAH, WE'RE, THEY'RE SO CONVOLUTED.
IT'S MAKING OUR HEADS, OH THIS A SIMPLE GIRL COUNTRY GIRL THAT FARMS SOME OF THIS STUFF AND WORKS A LOT.
I JUST, I APPRECIATE WHAT EVERY ONE OF YOU IS DOING.
LET ME JUST SAY THAT I KNOW AT TIMES THAT IT GETS CONVOLUTED AND IT GETS HARD, BUT I APPRECIATE THE LONG HOURS THAT EVERYBODY PUTS IN.
I APPRECIATE WHAT CHASE AND MATT HAVE DONE TO TRY TO HELP GET THIS RESOLVED.
AND YOU KNOW, AS WE MOVE FORWARD, MAYBE THERE'LL BE CLARITY FOR THE NEXT PERSON THAT HAS TO HANDLE IT.
AND I THANK YOU FOR ALL FOR YOUR TIME.
I JUST WANNA SAY THANK YOU TO YOU FOR WHAT YOU'RE DOING OUT ON JOHN MARSHALL HIGHWAY.
I'VE, I'VE LIVED HERE MY ENTIRE LIFE.
MY GRANNY LIVED OUT THE ROAD, JUST A SHORT PIECE.
AND I'VE SEEN THOSE DETERIORATE OVER THE YEARS AND IT'S BROKEN MY HEART TO SEE THAT.
AND YOU'RE BRINGING THEM BACK TO LIFE.
LIKE I SAID, THIS IS, IT'S WITH MY HEART.
I LOVE MY COMMUNITY AND I LOVE SERVING IT AND IT'S NOTHING THAT MAKES ME HAPPIER THAN TO SEE PEOPLE APPRECIATE WHAT I LOVE SO MUCH.
[E. Guidelines for Short-Term Tourist Rentals - Planning Department]
NEXT ITEM, HONOR, AGENDA OR GUIDELINES FOR SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTALS.Y'ALL WANNA I THINK WE WE'RE ALL THREE MINUTES, EVEN THOUGH IT SAYS WE'RE PLANNING SAYS NO ATTACHMENTS ON MINE.
I MEAN, DAVID MUST HAVE DRAWN THE SHORT STRAW TONIGHT.
YEAH, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT EARLIER ACTUALLY.
BUT
SO THIS, THIS IS A VERY WORDY POWERPOINT.
I'M SORRY I DON'T NORMALLY DO THAT, BUT OH, WE CAN READ THAT.
UM, JUST A LITTLE HISTORY ABOUT THE ORDINANCE.
UM, SO IN 2011 THE BZA INSTRUCTED PLANNING STAFF TO PROPOSE A ZONING ORDINANCE FOR SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTALS TO CLARIFY WHAT IS PERMITTED AFTER THEY RECEIVED COMPLAINTS ON 12 CABINS THAT WERE BEING RENTED WITHOUT PERMITS.
SO THIS WAS KIND OF THE FIRST TIME THAT WE HAD EVER HAD CABINS THAT, UM, WE WERE AWARE OF BEING RENTED IN THE COUNTY.
UM, AND THESE WERE THE HOT TUB HEAVEN CABINS.
AND THEY, UM, WENT TO THE BZA AND THE BZA SAID, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE AN ORDINANCE, WE NEED ONE.
SO THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, UM, AT THAT TIME, THOSE CABINS WERE BEING RENTED WITHOUT, THEY WEREN'T IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE HEALTH PERMITS FOR THE, FOR THE SEPTIC SYSTEMS. AND WE HAD GOTTEN, UM, NOISE COMPLAINTS.
AND SO THE, THE BZA SAID WE NEED AN ORDINANCE.
SO THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER RECOMMENDED AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ADOPTED AN ORDINANCE IN 2012 TO ALLOW SHORT TERM RENTALS BY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IN THE RESIDENTIAL ONE ZONING DISTRICT.
AND THEN BY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IN THE AGRICULTURAL ZONING DISTRICTS OF LOTS THAT WERE FIVE ACRES OR LESS.
SO AT THAT TIME THEY WERE ALLOWING, IF YOU HAD OVER FIVE ACRES IN THE AG DISTRICT, YOU COULD DO IT BY RIGHT.
SO THEN THEY STARTED GETTING, WE STARTED GETTING MORE AND MORE OF THESE IN THOSE TWO YEARS.
AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS STARTED GETTING COMPLAINTS FROM HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT THESE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR THEY WANTED MORE, MORE, UM, CONTROL OVER THEM.
UM, AND THESE WERE IN DIFFERENT EVEN AGRICULTURAL SUBDIVISIONS.
SO THE BOARD SUPERVISORS CAME BACK AND PLANNING STAFF INSTRUCTED PLANNING STAFF TO WRITE AN ORDINANCE THAT ALLOWED TO AMEND THE ORDINANCE THAT MADE ALL THE SHORT-TERM RENTALS BY C U P ONLY IN THE RESIDENTIAL ONE DISTRICTS AND AGRICULTURAL ZONING DISTRICTS.
AND THAT'S THE TIME THAT THEY PUT IN THIS 100 FOOT SETBACK FROM NEIGHBORING DWELLINGS JUST TO GIVE A LITTLE MORE SPACE AND, AND MAYBE EVEN ELIMINATE SOME OF THOSE IN THE R ONE DISTRICT THAT COULDN'T MEET THAT REQUIREMENT.
AND THEY ADDED OTHER SUPPLEMENTAL REGULATIONS SUCH AS THAT, THAT H O A REVIEW THAT WE HAVE NOW, THAT LANGUAGE AND PROPERTY MANAGEMENT PLAN.
YEAH, THAT WAS ANOTHER, OH YEAH, THAT WAS A BIG ONE.
UM, SO CURRENTLY THE ZONING ORDINANCE ALLOWS IN THE RESIDENTIAL ONE AGRICULTURAL AND RURAL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS THAT SHORT TERM RENTALS ARE, ARE PERMITTED BY THE ISSUANCE OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
[01:35:01]
SO IN THE RESIDENTIAL ONE ZONING DISTRICT, WE HAVE 55 ACTIVE CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS.IN THE AGRICULTURAL ZONING DISTRICT WE HAVE 52 AG, UM, ACTIVE CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS IN THE RURAL RESIDENTIAL WE HAVE ONE AGRICULTURAL LAND ACCOUNTS FOR 60% OF OUR LAND AREA IN THE COUNTY.
RESIDENTIAL ONE IS A LOT OF OUR LARGER SUBDIVISIONS, SMALLER LOTS.
SO SHANDEL FARMS, SKYLAND ESTATES, BLUE MOUNTAIN, APPLE MOUNTAIN, UM, THOSE, A LOT OF THOSE SUBDIVISIONS THAT WERE PLATTED PRIOR TO ZONING THAT ARE MAYBE NOT EVEN ONE ACRE LOT, YOU KNOW, DOWN TO A QUARTER ACRE.
HOW MANY THAT YOU ARE, DOES THESE NUMBERS INCLUDE UM, SHANDOR FARMS OR HOT DUCK? HOT TUB HEAVEN.
SO THERE'S REALLY AN ADDITIONAL NINE MORE.
SO CHASE SAID IT DOES NOT INCLUDE GRANDFATHER ONES AND THAT NUMBER WOULD BE, DO YOU KNOW ABOUT 19? ABOUT 19? ABOUT 19.
CAUSE THERE WERE THE HOT TUB HEAVEN AND THERE WERE MAYBE TWO IN HYNO BRIDGE DRIVE DOWN IN THE SOUTH RIVER DISTRICT.
SO, SO THEN ACCORDING TO THESE NUMBERS, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S, UH, WE, WE'VE GOT, UH, 108, I COULD SWEAR OVER THIS LAST YEAR THAT WE HAD LIKE 2000 IN THE, IN THE COUNTY.
YOU KNOW, THAT WAS MY EXACT FAULT.
I I EVEN SAID, ARE YOU SURE WE ONLY HAVE 108 TO THE PERMITS THAT WE ISSUED? SO THESE ARE ACT THESE ARE, THESE ARE HUNDRED EIGHT PLUS 19 PROCESS.
THAT DOES NOT, FOR THOSE THAT ARE IN VIOLATION, HOW MANY OF THOSE ARE THEY? I WISH WE KNEW
SO 108 IN THE COUNTY, UM, THAT ARE ACTIVE, ARE THEY ACTIVE OR THAT THEY HAVE AN A C U P THAT'S ACTIVE, BUT CUZ I KNOW SOME OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN THEM BUT HAVEN'T USED THEM AS SHORT TERM RENTALS AND THEY DO FOLLOW UP ON THOSE.
UM, THEY ARE IN CONTACT, YEAH.
WITH THEM THEY KIND OF DETERMINE ACTIVE AS IF IT'S BEEN APPROVED AND THEY'VE GONE THROUGH THE POST-APPROVAL PROCESS AND THEY'VE, YOU KNOW, REGISTERED WITH TRANSIENT FOR THE TRANS LOGIC.
NOW, AT ANY ONE TIME, AND ESPECIALLY DURING COVID, THERE WERE SOME THAT JUST, THEY, THEY, THEY WERE ACTIVE BUT THEY SHUT DOWN.
THEY WEREN'T GONNA DO THAT ANYMORE AND HAVE SINCE A COUPLE OF 'EM HAVE SINCE NOT RESUMED IT.
SO, YOU KNOW, I, THIS IS PRETTY CLOSE.
THIS IS PRETTY CLOSE TO WHAT WE'VE GOT AND I KNOW IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT, BUT I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT IT'S NOT AS MANY AS IT SEEMS LIKE BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN APPROVING SIX OF 'EM AT A TIME AND IT MIGHT FEEL LIKE IT'S A LOT, BUT IT IS 108 SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTALS IS REALLY NOT THAT BIG AN IMPACT.
AND A COUNTY WITH HOW MANY HOMES DO WE HAVE? DO ANY, ANY, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY RESIDE RESIDENTIAL HOMES? HOUSING UNITS? WE HAVE ABOUT 17,000.
17,000 HOUSING UNITS AND WE HAVE 108 SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTALS.
YOU GUYS CAN DO THE PERCENTAGE? IT'S LESS THAN, I THINK THAT IT'S KIND OF JUST 1% BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A, IT'S SUCH A, LIKE A FAD RIGHT NOW.
AND SO I THINK THAT'S, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE A LOT.
WE'VE BEEN HAVING SO MANY EACH MONTH.
UM, THAT DOES SEEM LOW, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS WANNA VERIFY THAT, BUT THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS WE HAVE.
IT'S AMAZING THE IMPACT IT HAD THOUGH ON OUR REAL ESTATE INCREASES.
THAT WAS A BIG, DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE PIPELINE RIGHT NOW? UM, HOW MANY DO Y'ALL HAVE COMING UP? SIX, SEVEN
I'VE GOT A BOARD IN MY OFFICE WITH EVERYTHING WRITTEN OUT.
I GOTTA LOOK AT IT WHENEVER I GET THESE QUESTIONS.
WE JUST HAD FOUR A DEADLINE ENDED.
WELL IT ENDS TOMORROW AND I THINK WE ACTUALLY HAVE FIVE FOR, FOR THIS NEXT MONTH.
FOR THIS NEXT MONTH COMING IN.
SO IT'S AVERAGING BETWEEN FIVE AND EIGHT A MONTH.
YOU KNOW, SO AND YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY THE TOWN HAS STARTED? NO, SIR.
I, I DON'T, YEAH, I, I I THINK THEY'VE, THEY'VE KIND OF JUST STARTED TO HAVE THEM.
UM, I KNOW I WANTED TO GO OVER THIS JUST BECAUSE WE ALWAYS PUT THIS IN YOUR COVER SHEETS, BUT I'M NOT SURE WE'VE EVER REALLY TALKED ABOUT, UM, WHAT, WHAT OUR CODE SAYS AS FAR AS WHEN YOU APPROVE CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS.
SO THESE ARE JUST SOME QUICK GUIDELINES THAT IS ARE IN OUR CODE THAT YOU ALL SHOULD KEEP IN MIND AS YOU APPROVE ANY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
UM, THAT THE, THAT USE SHOULD BE IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
THE USE SHOULD BE IN HARMONY WITH THE GENERAL PURPOSE OF THESE ZONING DISTRICTS.
SO EACH ZONING DISTRICT, AGRICULTURAL, RESIDENTIAL, THEY ALL HAVE A PARAGRAPH AT THE BEGINNING THAT SAYS WHAT THAT, WHAT THAT DISTRICT LIKE.
THE OVERALL INTENT OF THAT, OF THAT DISTRICT IS.
[01:40:01]
UM, THE, IT SAYS THAT THE PROPOSED USE SHALL BE IN, UM, HARMONIOUS WIDTH AND NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT THE USE IN DEVELOPMENT OF NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.UM, THE LOCATION, SIZE AND HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING STRUCTURES, WALLS, FENCES, BUFFERING, IT SHOULD ALL NOT HINDER, DISCOURAGE THE APPROPRIATE DEVELOPMENT AND USE OF THE NEIGHBORING BUILDINGS.
THE PROPOSED USE SHALL, UM, BE SUCH THAT PEDESTRIAN AND VEHICULAR TRAFFIC ASSOCIATED WITH THE USE WOULD NOT BE HAZARDOUS OR CONFLICT WITH EXISTING AND ANTICIPATED TRAFFIC IN THE AREA.
UM, ADEQUATE UTILITY, DRAINAGE, PARKING LOADING.
AND I CAN PRINT THIS OUT TO GIVE YOU A COPY.
AND THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL FOR US.
WHERE, WHERE IN THAT SAYS ALSO THE COMMUNITY, UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD APPROVALS AND POAS IS THERE, SO THAT WAS SPECIFIC IN THE ACTUAL THIS IS AN ORDINANCE FOR ALL C P APPROVALS THAT THINGS YOU SHOULD CONSIDER YES, MA NOT FOR, NOT JUST FOR YES MA'AM.
I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO GO OVER THESE GENERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR ALL CEPS.
UM, WHILE, WHILE WE HAD THIS CHANCE
THESE, UM, YOU MAY IMPOSE REASONABLE CONDITIONS SUCH AS, UM, LOOKING AT TO ABATE OR RESTRICT NOISE, SMOKE DUST, OTHER ELEMENTS THAT COULD AFFECT SURROUNDING PROPERTIES.
YOU CAN ESTABLISH SETBACKS, SIDE AND FRONT REQUIREMENTS NECESSARY FOR THE ORDERLY EXPANSION TO AND TO PREVENT TRAFFIC CONGESTION.
YOU CAN PROVIDE FOR ADEQUATE PARKING INGRESS AND EGRESS TO PUBLIC STREETS OR ROADS.
YOU CAN PROVIDE ADJOINING PROPERTIES WITH BUFFERS TO SHIELD THE PROPOSED USE FROM VIEW.
UM, AND YOU CAN PREVENT SUCH USE FROM CHANGING THE CHARACTER AND THE ESTABLISHED PATTERN OF DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMMUNITY.
AND I KNOW YOU'VE HEARD ME SAY THAT BEFORE CUZ I ALWAYS THINK THAT IS A BIG THING IS, UM, JUST KEEPING THE, THE CHARACTER AND THE PATTERN OF DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMMUNITY.
SO THESE ARE JUST GENERAL GUIDELINES FOR ALL CUS THAT YOU, YOU SHOULD CONSIDER REALLY FOR EACH ONE, UM, NOT JUST FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS.
SO YOUR ZONING COMPLIANCE REVIEW, THIS IS WHAT PLANNING STAFF DOES.
UM, ONCE THE CCEP P IS APPROVED BY THE BOARD, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO KIND OF GO THROUGH AND HIGHLIGHT WHAT THEY DO AFTER IT LEAVES HERE AND IT'S BEEN APPROVED.
UM, YOU GUYS CAN JUMP DOWN IF YOU WANT, BUT, UM, THE APPLICANT APPLIES FOR A BUILDING PERMIT FOR THE STRUCTURE, UM, FOR THE CHANGE OF USE, WHICH IS APPROVED BY, BY DAVID AND BY ZONING STAFF.
AND THAT'S PRIMARILY JUST TO LOOK AT THE SMOKE AND FIRE DETECTOR SYSTEM AND CARBON MONOXIDE.
UM, I THINK FIRE EXTINGUISH ACTUALLY ONLY LOOKS AT THE CODE BY FURTHER REGULATION.
SO A LOT OF LOT OF PLACES HAVE THE OLDER SYSTEMS AND THE THE NEWER SYSTEMS KIND OF TALK BACK AND FORTH TO ONE ANOTHER.
SO THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR IS SYSTEMS. SO THEY MAY DO AN ONSITE VISIT, UM, ZONING STAFF.
THEY REVIEW THE HEALTH PERMIT FOR THE SEPTIC SYSTEM.
THEY, UM, USUALLY HAVE AN AN ON, ALL OF THEM I THINK HAVE AN ANNUAL COMPLIANCE WITH THE WELL WATER, UM, MONITORING.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE I MISSED? LET'S CHECKING FOR E COLI.
THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT PLAN, I'M GONNA MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THAT CONTACT OF, YOU KNOW, EVERY, SOMETIMES YOU SEE THEM IN THE PACKET BUT NOT ALL THE TIME.
SO THEY'LL MAKE SURE THEY GET THAT PRIOR TO, UM, ISSUING THE FINAL ZONING PERMIT.
WE MAY ASK THEM TO SEND PICTURES OF THE PROPERTY BOUNDARIES BEING MARKED IF THAT WAS AN ISSUE THAT CAME UP.
I MEAN USUALLY, WE'LL, YOU KNOW, WE ARE NOT ABLE TO DO A SITE PLAN.
WE'LL ASK 'EM TO SEND PHOTOS OF THOSE AND WE CONFIRM THAT THAT WAS WAS ADDRESSED.
AND UH, SO ONCE THAT ZONING PERMIT'S APPROVED, THEN THE APPLICANT CAN GET THEIR BUSINESS LICENSE AND UM, THE PLANNING STAFF DOES A REVIEW EACH YEAR OF THE PERMIT, WHICH, WHICH INCLUDES THE VERIFYING THAT THE TRANSIENT OCCUPANCY TAX IS BEING PAID, UM, FOR THAT SHORT TERM RENTAL.
WHY WOULD PARDON? WELL, BECAUSE IT'S IN THE ORDINANCE, IT'S IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
THAT'S, ISN'T THAT THE COMMISSIONER'S RESPONSIBILITY? WELL, SH SH SHE MAKES SURE THEY DO
[01:45:01]
REGISTER, BUT THEN THEY JUST FOLLOW UP THAT IT IS GOING DOWN.WE, WE WORK CLOSELY WITH THAT.
THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD WAY FOR US TO GAUGE WHETHER THEY'RE ACT ACTUALLY KIND OF GOING INACTIVE.
BECAUSE IF THEY'RE NOT, THEY HAVE TO DO THAT EVERY MONTH WHETHER THEY'VE HAD GUESTS OR NOT AND THEY COULD JUST PUT ZERO THEY, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THAT GOES.
SO IT JUST ALLOWS US TO GAUGE OKAY.
YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY'RE KEEPING ACTIVE ON THAT.
THEY ARE FILING, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PART OF THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT.
SO WE'RE NOT DOING DUPLICATE WORK HERE? NO, NO.
WE ACTUALLY WORK PRETTY HAND IN HAND WITH, WITH UH, COMMISSIONER REVENUE.
WE GIVE THEM OUR, OUR SPREADSHEETS EVERY MONTH AFTER ANY APPROVALS HAVE BEEN DONE.
SO WE LET THEM KNOW AND THEN THEY'LL, THEY'LL CONVERSELY LET US KNOW IF THEY'VE FOUND ONE THAT'S BEING USED, YOU KNOW, AND NOT PAYING TRANSIENT LODGING OR IF THEY'RE ONE THAT YOU KNOW IS WELL, YOU KNOW, NOT ON THEIR LIST AND RIGHT.
I MEAN AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT DOING THE SAME, THE SAME THING.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE YEAH MY CONCERN IS.
SO WE STAFF, THEY DO TYPICALLY ONLY KNOW OF COMPLAINTS IF SOMEONE ACTUALLY CALLS THE ZONING OFFICE ABOUT THE RENTAL.
UM, CUZ IT IS HARD, YOU KNOW, TO MONITOR THAT OR IF OR IF CUZ IF THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT GETS A COMPLAINT, I MEAN THEY DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
YEAH, I MEAN, SO THAT PROBABLY WOULD NEVER GET BACK TO THE ZONING OFFICE.
SO, UM, CHASE AND, AND OUR PREVIOUS ZONING ADMINISTRATOR, CHRIS WOULD PERIODICALLY LOOK A LINE JUST TO KIND OF SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.
THEY'D LOOK AT THE AIRBNB AND CHECK THAT OUT.
AND WE'RE, WE'RE TRAINING MR. BURKE, OUR NEW ZONING OFFICER, HE'S UH, HE'LL BE DOING THAT ALSO PERIODICALLY ONCE EVERY WEEK, EVERY, EVERY COUPLE WEEKS JUST TO TAKE A LOOK AT THINGS.
AND THEN IF WE SEE THAT HE CAN SEND A NOTICE OF INSPECTION JUST SAYING, HEY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE FOR THAT.
AND THEN, UM, AS WE ALWAYS SAY, IF THE APPLICANT DOESN'T COMPLY WITH THE C P CONDITIONS, THEN THE PERMIT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO REVOCATION, IT WOULD COME BACK TO THE BOARD SUPERVISORS.
THAT'S HOW OFTEN DOES THAT HAPPEN THOUGH? SO IT HAS NOT HAPPENED FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS.
NO, I CAN THINK OF A KENNEL DEFINITELY THAT HAPPENED AND TWO KENNELS.
YEAH, TWO KENNELS SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE.
SO, AND IT WAS ONE GUY VOLUNTEER THAT STOPPED THE OTHER ONE.
I MEAN THEY WERE BAD SITUATIONS.
SO, SO JUST TO, I JUST WANT YOU TO STATE THAT AGAIN, THAT IN THE 108
THAT MEANS EVERYBODY'S IN COMPLIANCE.
WE'VE NOT, WE NOT, WE, IF PEOPLE, I'M NOT GONNA SAY THEY HAVEN'T GOTTEN COMPLAINTS.
I MEAN IT TAKES, THEY DON'T, I MEAN MAY NOT KNOW WHO TO TO REPORT.
BRING SOMETHING TO YOU FOR ONE COMPLAINT.
AND THEY, THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY, HAVE A TO TO AND WE WOULD GIVE THEM A CHANCE.
I THINK THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE IT TO WHERE ONE COMPLAINT AND WE JUST CHOP IT OFF
WELL WE GONNA DO THAT ON LONG TERM.
ARE WE GONNA DO THAT ON LONG TERM TOUR, UH, REYNOLDS TOO.
NO, I'M JUST, I'M SORRY BUT YOU'RE NEVER GONNA CONVINCE ME THAT THESE ARE ANY DIFFERENT.
BUT ANYWAY, THE DIFFICULT THINGS IS SOME PEOPLE WILL COME TO THESE PUBLIC HEARINGS AND, AND AND SAY THAT WE'VE HAD PROBLEMS WITH, YOU KNOW, AND SOME OF 'EM HAVE BEEN THE GRANDFATHERED ONES, BUT THEY'VE NEVER REACHED OUT TO US.
YOU KNOW, SO IT'S A COMMUNICATION ISSUE IF YOU THINK SO IN THE GRANDFATHERED ONES, YOU HAVE NO JURISDICTION TO TO MANAGE.
THAT WAS THE, THAT WAS THE BZA A'S THAT WAS THE WHOLE THING IS THEY WANTED AN ORDINANCE TO BE ABLE TO, TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THEM AND REGULATE THEM.
SO, AND THEN WE STARTED OUT AND THEN THE BOARD HAD APPROVED, YOU KNOW, MORE, MORE AN AMENDMENT TO THE ORDINANCE IN 2014 BECAUSE THEY WERE GETTING A LOT OF PUSHBACK FROM UM, GATED CITIZENS.
GATED COMMUNITIES WERE VERY UPSET.
SO PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THEY, YOU, YOU'RE GONNA FIND VERY, I MEAN WIDE VARIETY OF OPINIONS ON THESE
SO WE HAVE SOME OPTIONS THAT KIND OF KEEP IT EVEN BUT CHANGE THE ORDINANCE A LITTLE AND WE HAVE OPTIONS OF MAKING IT MORE RESTRICTIVE.
[01:50:02]
UM, YOU COULD ALWAYS HAVE OPTIONS MAKING IT LESS RESTRICTIVE TOO.SO JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN I GO OVER THESE OPTIONS.
SO YOU COULD ALWAYS, WHAT WE DID IN THE VERY BEGINNING REVIEW THE ZONING DISTRICTS WHERE SHORT TERM RENTALS ARE CURRENTLY PER MINUTE, YOU COULD CONSIDER LIMITING THEM TO ONLY AGRICULTURALLY ZONED AREAS.
THAT'S, THAT'S OUR 60% OF THE COUNTY'S LAND AREA.
THOSE ARE TYPICALLY LARGER LOTS WITH MORE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE HOUSING AND MORE VEGETATION.
YOU NEED TO KEEP IN MIND THOUGH THAT THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS ARE THOSE SUBDIVISION SHANDEL FARMS, SHANDEL SHORES, SKYLAND ESTATES, BLUE MOUNTAIN, APPLE MOUNTAIN, THESE ARE JUST A FEW.
BUT IN THOSE ARE THE ONES YOU HAVE MORE OF RECENTLY.
UM, SO THAT'S A FAULT OF SOMETHING YOU MIGHT WANNA DO.
ANOTHER OPTION WE WERE THINKING OF IS TO, YOU COULD KEEP THE SHORT TERM RENTALS IN THE SAME ZONING DISTRICTS AS THEY'RE ALLOWED NOW BACK CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THAT WE COULD CLEAN UP THE LANGUAGE OF THE SUPPLEMENTAL REGULATIONS, MAYBE TAKE OUT THAT A HUNDRED FOOT SETBACK BACK.
CUZ THAT SEEMS TO BE A, DO WE WAIVE IT, DO WE NOT? UM, QUESTION YOU COULD ADD LANGUAGE OF PROHIBITING ATVS, OPEN BURNING FIREWORKS, DISCHARGING OF FIREARMS, BECAUSE THAT SEEMS TO COME UP A LOT THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE APPROVAL PROCESS.
WHEN YOU SAY CLEAN UP LANGUAGE, WHAT, WHAT DOES THAT, WELL THERE'S SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE ABOUT LIKE THE PHONE LINE HAVING TO HAVE A, A HARD PHONE LINE PHONE.
UM, AND PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THAT IT SEEMS LIKE.
BUT, AND WHEN, WHEN THIS WAS GOING ABOUT, WE DIDN'T HAVE GREAT SELF SERVICE THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY AND STILL THEIR, THEY'RE, IT'S SPOTTING, BUT IT'S A LITTLE BIT BETTER, LITTLE BIT BETTER.
AND NOW THERE'S VOICEOVER AND INTERNET CLEAR TO PAUL.
SO IF YOU'VE GOT A HIGH SPEED INTERNET, YOU CAN USE THAT AS THE TOOLS.
SO WE'VE KIND OF WORKED WITH PEOPLE ON THAT AND SO THEY'RE NOT, PEOPLE AREN'T DOING THAT NOW IS WHAT I'M SAYING.
SO I MEAN WE, WE WANNA LOOK AT THE ORDINANCE, YOU KNOW, OVERALL THE SUPPLEMENTAL REGULATIONS AND THAT'S WHAT THAT MEAN BY THAT.
SOME OF THE LANGUAGE ABOUT THE HOA, IT'S A LITTLE BIT KINDA CONFUSING AS TO HOW IT'S WORDED SO WE'LL.
YEAH, I THINK THE, AS FAR, CUZ I DO KNOW, ESPECIALLY IN THE BROWNTOWN AREA, LANDLINES ALL YOU CAN GET.
I MEAN IT'S, YOU MIGHT BE, IT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHERE IT'S, YEAH, I KNOW THE FARM THAT WE RENTED OFF OF, UH, LIBERTY HALL, THERE WAS ONE SPOT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD THAT YOU COULD GO AND MAYBE GET, AND YOU HAD TO STAND PERFECTLY STILL TO GET THE CELL SERVICE THERE.
IF YOU'RE A GUEST OF THAT HOUSE, YOURE NOT GONNA KNOW WHERE THAT YEAH.
UNLESS THEY PUT X ON THE, THE SPOT.
SO I SO IS THAT WHERE YOU, YOU TELL EVERYBODY I'M GONNA GO MAKE A PHONE CALL SO I'M GONNA PUT MY CODE ON.
WELL IF YOU'RE GONNA DO CELL PHONE.
SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, TAKING IT OUT ENTIRELY, I THINK IT BUT HAS TO, TO BE THAT'S HAVE THE IDEA YEAH.
TO A POSITIONAL THING OF WHERE, YOU KNOW, FOR MOST OF THE COUNTY, I THINK IT'S NOT EVEN A PROBLEM.
BUT I DON'T, I THINK, AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING, FORGETTING ABOUT IT ENTIRELY WITH THE, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAID.
WE HAVE TO DRAFT SOMETHING THAT DON'T MAKE IS NOT COMPLIANT IF THEY DON'T DO IT, YOU KNOW? MM-HMM.
AND SO THIS IS LIKE, WE, WE WILL WORK SOMETHING OUT.
THAT, SO ANOTHER OPTION, UM, IF YOU DID WANNA STICK WITH THE SETBACK AND YOU WEREN'T SURE WHETHER IT SHOULD BE WAIVED OR NOT WAIVED, YOU COULD ALWAYS PUT IT IN THE DEFINITION AND THAT WOULD BE A PERMANENT REQUIREMENT.
IT COULDN'T, IT CAN'T BE WAIVED IF IT'S IN THE DEFINITION.
SO THAT, THAT'S THAT A HUNDRED FOOT.
SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE A HUNDRED FEET, SORRY ABOUT YOUR BATTERY.
IT IS, IT IS HARD TO PUT THAT ON YOU ALL TO YEAH, I THINK, I DON'T THINK SO BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY, WE'VE HAD SEVERAL FOLKS COME IN HERE, UH, ONE GENTLEMAN WHO CAME IN AND, AND UH, I RE RECALL IT WAS THE LAST MEETING OR THE MEETING BEFORE LAST THAT UH, SAID THAT HE'S DONE A LOT OF TRAVEL, THAT HE'S, UH, HE'S BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH A LOT OF THESE, THESE, UH, RENTAL PROPERTIES AND THE, UH, AND HE SAID THIS IS THE ONLY COUNTY THAT HE'S EVER FOUND WHERE THEY HAVE THE HUNDRED FOOT SETBACK RULE.
AND SO I'M LOOKING AT IT LIKE, OKAY, WELL IF WE'RE GOING TO BE, IF WE, IF WE WANT TO BE THE COUNTY OF CHOICE VERSUS OF PAGE COUNTY, UH, CLARK COUNTY, YOU KNOW, THE, ALL OF THOSE COUNTIES AROUND US, THEN THE, I THINK THAT THE MORE RESTRICTIVE WE ARE, UNLESS IT'S FOR A SPECIFIC REASON OF THE, I THINK THAT IT'S, IT'S IN OUR BEST, IT'S IN OUR, OUR CONSTITUENTS BEST INTERESTS TO, UH, TO TO BE LESS RESTRICTIVE AS FAR AS THAT GOES.
[01:55:01]
THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHTS.AND THAT WAS, THAT WAS THIS WITH OPTION TWO? I MEAN, IT TAKES OUT THE SETBACK.
WE, WE TALKED ABOUT ADDING IN LANGUAGE OF THESE THINGS THAT ALWAYS COME UP, BUT I MEAN THAT OR YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
I MEAN, BUT DON'T WE HAVE A SETBACK FOR NORMAL HOUSES, HOUSING, RENTALS, FEET FROM EACH SIDE, PROPERTY LINES.
SO I WOULD JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE CONSISTENT.
THEY, THEY, I'M NOT GONNA SAY THEY ALREADY MEET THAT, BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE HOUSES WERE, WERE BUILT PRIOR TO THAT EVEN BEING A THING.
SO THIS IS MORE OF A USE SETBACK VERSUS A DWELLING OR STRUCTURE SETBACK.
TODAY IT WOULD BE 30, 30 FEET TO EACH PROPERTY LINE.
IF THEY WERE TO BUILD A BRAND NEW, IF THEY WERE BUILT BRAND NEW, THERE WOULD 15 GRANDFATHERS, 30 IN BETWEEN.
THE CHALLENGE TOO IS, AND AGAIN, LOOKING AT SETBACK, IT'S BEEN BROUGHT UP BEFORE.
YOU HAVE A LOT OF GRANDFATHER NOS.
RIGHT NOW I'M ON THE RIVER, YOU KNOW, WHICH KIND OF DOES MAKE A LITTLE BIT OF SENSE TO HAVE A SHORT TERM FOREST RENTAL DOWN THERE.
BUT THEY'RE, SOME OF 'EM ARE 30 FEET, NOT LESS THAN 30 FEET.
THEY'RE 20 FEET NEXT TO ONE ANOTHER.
THEY'RE BUNCHED UP AND, YOU KNOW, AND THEY'RE, BUT THEY'RE SECOND HOMES FOR PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, AND IT, IT KIND ALMOST DOES MAKE SENSE.
YOU'RE IN THEIR AWAY DISTRICT.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO'S LIVING THERE FULL-TIME.
YOU HAVE A FLOOD EVENT, THEY'RE HAVING TO GET OUT.
YOU KNOW, YOU GOT SOMEBODY WHO'S RENTING IT AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
THEY JUST MAY NOT HAVE SOMEBODY THERE.
SO, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S A BIT OF A CHALLENGE.
SO IT MAY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DO GO THIS ROUTE, YOU JUST BE A LITTLE MORE FOCUSED ON JUST WHERE THAT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AT THAT PARTICULAR PROPERTY IS, AND HOW IT'S GONNA IMPACT THE COMMUNITY AND THE NEIGHBORS.
IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORS, YOU KNOW.
UM, SO MR. WINS, WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING, YOU'VE BEEN DOING, COULD YOU, COULD YOU DO SOME RESEARCH FOR US? LIKE WHAT PAGE COUNTY'S, UM, WHAT THEY HAVE IN TERMS OF RESTRICTIONS? MAYBE WHAT CLARK, I THINK CLARK HAS A LARGE TOURIST, UM, SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTAL WORLD.
THAT, THAT THEY'RE GONNA BE CABIN CAPITAL, VIRGINIA.
THEY'RE BECOMING A HUGE CAPITAL.
UM, YOU KNOW, THEY TOURISM, THEY, I DO FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE, THEY ARE DIFFERENT.
IT WAS AS TO THEY DON'T HAVE AS, I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE THESE SUBDIVISIONS THAT WERE PLATTED PRIOR TO ZONING THAT WE'RE TRYING TO KIND OF DEAL WITH.
YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE THEY, THEY DO HAVE A LOT OF NICE, LIKE, RURAL AREAS.
I KNOW I RENTED A CABIN IN PAGE COUNTY.
I MEAN, IT WAS, ONE OF, IT WAS PROBABLY 20 ACRES AND IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT WAS THE POINT.
SO, UM, SO THEY HAVE A LARGER LAND MASS, I MEAN, AREA.
BUT YEAH, I THINK THAT ROAD THAT YOU CAN SEE FROM THREE 40, YOU LOOK ACROSS THE RIVER, IT'S IN PAGE COUNTY, BUT IT COMES INTO WARREN COUNTY AT ONE POINT.
UM, BUT THEY ARE VERY REMOTE, LIKE YOU SAY, IT'SS.
UM, THEY DEFINITELY HAVE SOME VERY REMOTE AREAS THERE.
SO IS, IS THERE A WAY, IS THERE A WAY TO, TO, UH, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY MEASURE WHEN, WHEN YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY WHO COMES IN AND SAYS, OKAY, I WANT TO, I WANT TO TURN THIS, THIS PARTICULAR, UH, PIECE OF PROPERTY INTO A SHORT TERM RENTAL, AND, UH, UH, BECAUSE I'M SENSITIVE TO, TO, UH, CONSTITUENTS WHO COME IN AND SAY, YOU KNOW, I, YOU KNOW, I DON'T LIKE THIS.
AND BE ABLE TO MEASURE, WELL, HOW MANY, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE CONTIGUOUS? HOW MANY PROPERTIES ARE CONTIGUOUS TO THAT? AND, UH, I'M JUST THROWING AN IDEA OUT THERE THAT, UH, IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN HALF THE PEOPLE THAT COME IN AND SAY THAT, THAT ARE CONTIGUOUS TO THAT PROPERTY, AND THEY SAY, WELL, I DON'T LIKE THIS, THEN, YOU KNOW, THAT GIVES US REASON FOR PAUSE.
I THINK THAT'S KIND OF THE WHOLE POINT OF THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, ACTUALLY.
DO THAT PROPERTY, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
SUPPLEMENTAL REGS, TAKE CARE OF CERTAIN THINGS WITHIN SPECIFIC CONDITIONS RELATED TO THAT AND TAKE CARE OF IT.
AND IF YOU CAN'T MEET A BALANCE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEN THAT'S THE REASON FOR DENIAL.
I MEAN, IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE DONE THAT.
OR WOULD IT BE ONE OF THESE THINGS WHERE IF PEOPLE COME IN AND THEY SAY, I DON'T WANT THIS.
SAY, WELL, WE'RE GONNA GRANT IT, BUT I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS, HERE'S THE PEOPLE TO CALL AND THEN WE WILL REVISIT THIS.
UM, THEY HAVE THAT OPTION NOW.
WELL, JUST TO SPEAK FOR MYSELF WITH THESE SHORT, UM, SHORT TERM RENTALS IS THE
[02:00:01]
INCONSISTENCY OF THE A HUNDRED FOOT SET, THAT REQUIREMENT.SO, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO DO A WAIVER.
AND THERE'S SOME OF US ON THIS BOARD FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, HEY, IT, IF IT'S IN THE ORDINANCE, IT'S IN THE ORDINANCE, YOU KNOW.
BUT THEN ON THE OTHER HAND, SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, YOU HAVE GRANDFATHERED, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, OUT IN THE SHORES AND YOU KNOW, WHERE IT'S THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD IS 30 FOOT, YOU KNOW, UH, SETBACK.
YOU KNOW? SO, SO THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN MY CHALLENGE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU UNDERSTAND, I MEAN, JUST LIKE LAST, I THINK IT WAS LAST WEEK WHERE WE HAD TWO CONDITIONAL, I MEAN, TWO, UM, SHORT TERM RENTALS, AND THEY BOTH DID NOT MEET THE SETBACK, BUT THE PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVED ONE AND THEN DISAPPROVED THE OTHER ONE.
AND IT WAS ONLY BASED BY THE COMMUNITY INPUT.
YOU KNOW, NOT TO SAY THAT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT WE SHOULD NOT IGNORE THOSE THINGS, BUT, UM, IT WAS, IT WAS, UM, IT WAS, IT WAS HARD FOR ME TO MAKE A MM-HMM.
SEE, I HAVE A HARD TIME WITH THE COM COMMUNITY INPUT WHEN THAT SAME INDIVIDUAL CAN RENT THAT HOUSE TO ANYBODY BY RIGHT.
LONG TERM AND MAKE A BIGGER IMPACT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAN THE SHORT TERM RENTAL.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT LOGIC, AND I CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT.
I, I DON'T UN I MEAN, WE HAVE LONG-TERM RENTALS IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT ARE A CONSTANT PROBLEM.
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GONNA HEAR THAT EVEN THOUGH THE LONG TERM RENTAL WINTER MIGHT HAVE MORE ISSUES, THEY AT LEAST KNOW WHO IT IS AND WHAT THEY HAVE NEXT TO THEM.
WITH THE SHORT TERM RENTAL, YOU DON'T KNOW BECAUSE IT'S SOMEBODY NEW EVERY WEEKEND, YOU KNOW? AND TYPICAL.
AND THEN YOU DO GET, YOU DO HEAR CONCERNS ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU GO ON VACATION.
I MEAN, WE DID HAVE A REALLY, REALLY BIG ISSUE IN MOSBY MOUNTAIN ESTATES WITH ONE, I MEAN, HAVING PARTIES EVERY WEEKEND.
AND SO WE'RE ALWAYS, THAT'S ALWAYS IN OUR MIND, YOU KNOW? I MEAN, WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD WENT THROUGH WITH, I REMEMBER THAT WE, WE HAD, WE HAD SO MANY NEIGHBORS, YOU KNOW, VERY UPSET AND, AND, AND, AND RIGHTFULLY SO.
I MEAN, THEY, THEY HAD, I MEAN, BUT COULDN'T, THAT MIGHT GET A PARTY HOUSE NEXT, BUT COULDN'T THAT SAME INDIVIDUAL HAVE RENTED LONG-TERM TO SOMEBODY WHO HAD A PARTY EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND.
SO, AND YOU WOULD'VE HAD NO RECOURSE EXCEPT TO CALL THE SHERIFF AND HAVE THE SHERIFF GO THERE.
THIS IS WHAT, THIS IS THE DISCONNECT IN MY HEAD ABOUT.
THAT'S AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, JUST TO, JUST TO KIND OF ADDRESS THIS, I THINK IT COMES DOWN TO THE OLD ADAGE OF, YOU KNOW, IT'S BETTER TO DEAL WITH THE DEVIL, YOU KNOW, THAN THE DEVIL YOU DON'T KNOW.
AND SO ON THE LONG TERM RENTAL, YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY THAT, YOU KNOW, IS JUST A REAL PAIN IN THE BAZOOKA ON THE SHORT TERM RENTAL.
ONE WEEKEND, IT COULD BE A GREAT PERSON, THE NEXT PERSON, THE NEXT WEEKEND.
IT COULD BE SOMEBODY THAT JUST DRIVES YOU BONKERS.
I, I THINK A BIG PART OF WHAT I'VE OBSERVED IN THE TIME WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS IS REALLY, THERE'S MULTIPLE LAYERS OF TRUST.
THERE'S TRUST BETWEEN THAT PROPERTY OWNER WHO OWNS THAT PROPERTY AND HIS NEIGHBORS.
THERE'S THE TRUST BETWEEN THE PROPERTY OWNER AND WHOM HE RENTS IT TO, THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, ARE GOING TO TREAT HIS HOME WELL.
AND, AND, YOU KNOW, BE WELL BEHAVED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THERE'S A PROPERTY, THERE'S A TRUST WITH THE AIRBNB.
YOU KNOW, IF THE AIR BBO, AIRBNB, WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, IF THEY, THEY ALLOW YOU TO VETT THESE PEOPLE AND THERE'S CERTAIN MECHANISMS THEY'VE PUT IN PLACE, THEN IT ALLOWS SOME OF THESE TRUCKS, HOMEOWNERS TO SAY, WELL, THIS PERSON I'M NOT GONNA RENT TO BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A GOOD RATING.
YOU KNOW? SO IT'S KIND OF THAT, WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS JUST A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING TO THE COMMUNITY AND PEOPLE JUST DON'T KNOW.
THEY DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY'VE NOT GOTTEN A CHANCE TO BECOME NEIGHBORS, YOU KNOW, SO THEY DON'T KNOW 'EM.
SO THERE'S SORT OF LIKE, OKAY, FIRST I DON'T KNOW YOU, BUT NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS PARTICULAR USE COULD DO TO MY NEIGHBORHOOD THAT I'M USED TO.
I MEAN, IT'S, AND LONG TERM, YOU, YOU DO THINK SOME PEOPLE HAVE MORE OF A VESTED INTEREST IN THAT PROPERTY.
I MEAN, MAYBE THAT NOT IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE, BUT WELL, COMING FROM, FROM LIVING IN A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE WE HAD A NEIGHBOR THAT I WOULD'VE PAID SOMEBODY $50,000 TO CREATE A SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTAL.
I CAN TELL YOU, COMING FROM LIVING THAT NIGHTMARE, I WOULD WELCOME SOMEBODY DIFFERENT EVERY WEEKEND.
SO ANYWAY, I, I JUST HAVE A LOT OF, I HAVE A LOT OF, OF ISSUES WITH THE INCONSISTENCY AND WHY WE'RE REGULATING ONE
[02:05:01]
USE VERSUS WHY WE'RE NOT REGULATING ANOTHER USE.THAT, THAT, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME.
AND SO, ESPECIALLY WHEN I KNOW THE LONG TERM RELATIONSHIP MIGHT BE WORSE,
I THINK PEOPLE REGULATE, YOU KNOW, THE SHORT TERM RENTALS, BECAUSE IT IS MORE OF A, I MEAN, IT IS A RESIDENCE, BUT IT IS MORE OF A BUSINESS.
I MEAN, BECAUSE IT'S MORE OF A, IT'S MORE OF A RISK.
IT'S, IT'S, WELL, IT'S MORE OF, I DON'T WANNA SAY IT'S A HOTEL, BUT I DON'T WANNA CALL IT THAT.
BUT THEY CAN SAY, BYE-BYE AFTER THREE DAYS INSTEAD OF HAVING TO GO TO COURT.
THIS GUY HADN'T PAID ME IN THREE MONTHS.
YOU KNOW, WHERE'S MY RIGHTS AS THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY AS A LONG AS A LANDLORD, YOU KNOW, TO GET MY PROPERTY BACK.
AND OF COURSE, AGAIN, IT COMES DOWN TO THAT VESTED INTEREST.
THEY DON'T HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE COMMUNITY OR THIS OWN.
AND I THINK THAT'S, YEAH, THAT'S A REGULATION TOO, BECAUSE THAT'S ANOTHER LAW THAT, YOU KNOW, YEAH, THAT'S TRUE.
CAN BE OVERLOOKED FOR LANDLORDS WHO RENT HOMES.
AND THEN OF COURSE, CONVERSIONAL.
YOU CAN HAVE LANDLORDS AND, YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF CHECKS AND BALANCES OUT THERE AND YEAH.
YOU KNOW, WE JUST HOPE THAT WITH THESE, WE CAN PUT A FAIR AMOUNT OF CHECKS AND BALANCES TOO.
AND I, AND I THINK ULTIMATELY, I MEAN, ULTIMATELY IT'S UP TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, WHAT, WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH THE SHORT TERM RENTALS, RIGHT? I MEAN, YOU COULD, YOU COULD NOT ALLOW THEM AT ALL, OR YOU COULD ALLOW THEM AS THEY ARE, YOU COULD MAKE THESE DIFFERENT LITTLE CHANGES AND WHERE YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, HAVE BUY RIDE IN SOME ZONING DISTRICT, SOMEBODY'S COMP COMPLETELY AT WHAT YOU THINK.
AND THEN WHAT THE CITIZENS WOULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, TO SAY, WHY DID THE MATH IN 108 SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTALS DIVIDED BY 17,000 HOUSING UNITS IS 600 OF 1%
SO, WHICH EQUATES TO ABOUT 10 A YEAR.
IT'S, IT'S REALLY A, I I DON'T, IT'S, IT'S REALLY A MINOR, UH, USE IN OUR COMMUNITY.
I GET WE DIDN'T HAVE 'EM FOR SO LONG, AND THEN WE'VE HAD SUCH AN INFLUX.
I THINK THAT IS WHY IT SEEMS, YEAH.
I MEAN, AND, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG WE'LL GET THIS MONEY.
I MEAN, I THINK IT'S LIKE ALMOST 75% OF THEM WERE FROM 2019 ON.
THAT'S WHY I THINK COVID YEAH.
WE DIDN'T HAVE THEM FOR SO LONG.
WE HAVE SIX, SEVEN THAT ARE LEFT.
I THINK COVID WAS THE BIGGEST IMPETUS TO DRIVING PEOPLE HERE TO FIND SOMEWHERE ELSE TO LIVE.
IT IS A FAT, WELL, I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, I, I'M, I'M FINE WITH HAVING SHORT TERM RENTALS.
I, YOU KNOW, THE WAY WE HAVE IT ESTABLISHED, IT'S JUST THE INCONSISTENCY WHERE WE APPROVE ONE BECAUSE OF SETBACK, BUT, BUT WE DON'T APPROVE THE APPROVE.
THE OTHER IS WHAT, AND WE CAN REMOVE THAT SETBACK REQUIREMENT.
I, I, YOU KNOW, I, AND I'M FOR OPTION TWO, ME TOO.
AND AS FAR AS THE, THE VOLUME, I MEAN, IF IT GETS WORSE, WE CAN JUST COME BACK AND AMEND THE ORDINANCE.
YOU KNOW,
BECAUSE IF THAT MAKES IT A LITTLE EASIER ON YOU NOW, BECAUSE YOU CAN JUST SAY, WELL, IT DOESN'T MEAN THE, THE HUNDRED FOOT SETBACK, SO WE'RE GONNA DENY IT.
WELL, I THINK THE STANDARD IS CLEAR IN THE ORDINANCE THAT THOSE TWO SLIDES I GAVE YOU THAT, THAT YOU SHOULD LOOK AT FOR ALL CONDITIONAL USES.
WE CAN DENY IT AND NOT SAY ANYTHING.
WELL, WELL, NO TO, TO, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE, UH, AT THE APPROVALS THAT WE'VE GIVEN ABOUT, THE ONLY TIME THAT WE EVER DENY THEM IS FOR THE, THE, THE SETBACK.
OR IF WE HAVE AN OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF PEOPLE COMING IN HERE SAYING, I DON'T WANT THIS, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
SO WE, OR IF THE, IF THE, IF THE SUBDIVISION HAS A ORDINANCE THAT THEY KNEW IN ADVANCE THAT THEY COULDN'T I, OR A RULE I, IF SOMEBODY BOUGHT THE PROPERTY AND THEY KNEW
THEN I'M LIKE, LOOK, YOU SHOULD HAVE READ YOUR COVENANTS LIST.
AND THAT'S COMPLETELY UP TO YOU ALL RIGHT.
THAT, THAT'S WHERE I KIND OF LOSE THE COMPASSIONATE PART.
BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S FORCED A LOT OF HOAS POAS TO, TO EVALUATE THIS PLAN USE, YOU KNOW? RIGHT.
IN THEIR COVENANTS AND IN THEIR BYLAWS.
BECAUSE SOME OF THE ONES THAT ARE MORE FORWARD-LOOKING LIKE HIGH NOW, THEY, THEY ALREADY, THEY HAD IT IN THERE.
THEY, YOU KNOW, BUT, BUT THUNDERBIRD FARMS, THEY WERE LIKE, WOW, WELL, WE CAN'T DEFEND.
IT WAS SO BROAD, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL BUSINESS, YOU CAN'T DEFEND THAT AGAINST FIRST SHORT TERM FOREST.
SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE EVALUATING THAT.
WELL, HIGH KNOB A GATED COMMUNITY AS WELL.
[02:10:01]
GOOD.WELL, SO THEN THERE'S, OKAY, DO YOU MAKE A RESTRICTION WHERE WE DON'T ALLOW THEM IN GATED COMMUNITIES THEN? WE ACTUALLY DID WE HAVE THAT IN THE FIRST ONE AND WE TOOK IT OUT? WE, WE, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT FOR LONG TIME.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE THING OF, AND YOU KNOW, YOU OPEN IT UP, THEN THEM AS BEST WE CAN.
AND I WANNA SAY IT WAS IN ONE OF THE VERSIONS AND IT JUST, IT NEVER GOT THROUGH.
AND I'M NOT SURE WHY IT WAS THEN YOU'RE FRIDGE ON PROPERTY RIGHTS.
WELL, BUT IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE GONNA SAY WE'RE GONNA TAKE RESTRICTIONS OFF OF SETBACKS AND THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER, THEN HOW CAN YOU SAY WE CAN'T, THAT WE CAN'T STOP 'EM FROM GOING INTO HIGH KNOB JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE A GATED COMMUNITY.
CUZ WE DID ALLOW THEM IN THE GATED COMMUNITY OFF PANHANDLE CORRECTS, TWIN X IS GATED.
YOU SEE, THEY, THEY ARE GATED AND THEY THREE NO, BUT I, I, I SEE.
NO, THEY KEEP THAT GATE LOCKED A LOT.
THERE'S BEEN, BUT, BUT I SEE MS. OS, YOU KNOW, I SEE HER, HER POINT IN THAT, YOU KNOW, IF, IF YOU COME ALONG AND YOU BUY THIS PROPERTY AND YOU KNOW THAT IT SAYS IN THE, UH, UH, IN THE, IN THE POA, UH, UH, THAT, THAT THEY DON'T ALLOW THIS.
AND THEN YOU JUST DECIDE THAT, WELL, I'M JUST GONNA TOSS THAT THE WIND AND, YOU KNOW, PROCEED.
AND WE'VE HAD THAT THERE 500 BUCKS AND THE FEE SCHEDULE WAS, IS COMING UP NEXT.
SO WE WELL, I WAS GONNA SAY, WELL, I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE'D PUT IN OUR ORDINANCE.
AND I, I THINK THAT COMPLIES WITH THE POA AGREEMENT.
I MEAN, WE, WE, WE HAVE THAT THEY PROVIDE COMMENTS, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE MORE JUST DO ALL CASE BY CASE BASIS.
YOU CAN'T GIVE THE POA THE LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY.
THAT'S A GOOD POINT THAT WE HAVE.
COVENANTS, SUPERVISORS, COVENANTS ARE SEPARATE.
AND I'M NOT SAYING THEY SHOULD.
WE HAVE, WE HEAR THE SAME THING TIME, AFTER TIME, AFTER TIME.
I BOUGHT THIS FOR A SECOND HOME AND NOW I NEED TO RENT IT OUT FROM THE WEST COAST OR WHEREVER.
AND YOU KNOW, IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT KIND OF IRKS ME THAT THEY COME IN WITH THAT BECAUSE YOU KNOW, DARN WELL THEY BOUGHT IT FOR AN INVESTMENT.
THEY NEVER PLAN TO LIVE IN IT FULL-TIME.
THEY WANTED IT FOR A SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IS PART OF THE PROBLEM THAT THE COMMUNITIES HAVE A HARD TIME BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE THEY WERE SPOOFED AS WELL.
I DON'T WANT TO USE THE WORD THAT I WAS GONNA USE, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A LEVEL OF, OF TRUST WHEN THEY BREAK IT RIGHT OFF THE BEGINNING OF COMING IN AND MAKING YOU THINK, OH, WE'RE GONNA BE GREAT NEIGHBORS AND, BUT I'M GONNA DO A SHORT TERM RENTAL OUT OF THIS.
I MEAN, WE HAD THE ONE LADY THAT SOLD HER A HOUSE AND SAID SPECIFICALLY, I WOULD NOT HAVE SOLD IT.
AND I TOLD THEM I WOULDN'T HAVE SOLD IT IF I HAD KNOWN THEY WERE GONNA DO A SHORT-TERM RENTAL AND THEY DID A SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
IS THERE ANY WAY THAT WE CAN CREATE A SHORT-TERM RENTAL ARRANGEMENT WHERE WE DON'T HAVE TO APPROVE FIVE OR SIX OF 'EM A MONTH, WHERE YOU ONLY BRING FORTH THE ONES THAT MAKE A THE REASON FOR THIS IS THAT THEY'RE, I MEAN, WE END UP APPROVING ALL OF THEM.
AND SO WE'VE GOT AN EXTRA MEETING A MONTH WHERE WE'RE BRINGING IN STAFF WHO COULD BE HOME WITH THEIR FAMILIES TO APPROVE THEM ALL.
IT'S JUST, IT SEEMS KIND OF MISS, MS. JORDAN TELL INTUITIVE ME INPUT TO THAT
SO I HAVEN'T DONE A LOT OF DIGGING IN THIS BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW IF THE BOARD WOULD EVEN BE INTERESTED IN IT.
I DO KNOW THAT FREDERICK COUNTY FAIRLY RECENTLY, LIKE IN 2019 OR TWEN 20 20 22, THEY ACTUALLY AMENDED THEIR ORDINANCE TO ALLOW A BY RIGHT USE OF A SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTAL.
AND SO THAT, I DO BELIEVE THAT IS AN OPTION.
I HAVEN'T CONFIRMED WITH THE CODE THAT THAT IS.
I THINK IT'S DEFINITELY AN OPTION.
WE DIDN'T GET INTO THAT AGAIN BECAUSE IT'S LESS RESTRICTIVE.
IT'S GONNA BE GETTING RID OF BY RIGHT.
UH, BUT THAT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE.
BUT THE BY RIGHT WOULD ALLOW, LIKE AS SOON AS THEY SUBMIT THE APPLICATION TO THE, TO PLANNING AND ZONING, THEY WOULD HAVE TO CHECK ALL THESE BOXES.
AND IF THEY DON'T CHECK ALL THE BOXES, IF THERE'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT ABOUT THE SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTAL, THEN THAT'S WHEN IT WOULD COME BEFORE THE BOARD FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
NO, SEE, I THINK THAT'S, I LIKE THAT.
BECAUSE WE VOTE FOR THEM ANYWAY, SO IT SEEMS SO YEAH, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE IT'S NOT GONNA BE A BURDEN.
I FEEL LIKE A BURDEN ON STAFF TO BE MAKING A DECISION THAT REALLY IS GONNA PUT THEM IN A BIND.
YOU KNOW? WELL, WE'RE, WE ALREADY HAVE A CRITERIA
[02:15:01]
SET UP.WE ALREADY HAVE IT WITH THE, USING THE C P RIGHT NOW IT'S C P C.
RIGHT NOW IT IS ALL C THIS WOULD BE FOR THE BY.
YOU KNOW, BUT YOU'RE STILL CHECKING THE BOXES.
SO ANYTHING THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU HAVE CHECKED ALL THE BOXES OR NOT, WE WOULD JUST HAVE TO BE CLEAR AS TO WHEN IT WOULD ACTUALLY COME TO THE BOARD.
WELL, WE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE SURE WHEN IT COMES TO THE BOARD FOR THEM, THE, THE PUBLIC TO BE NOTIFIED MM-HMM.
BUT YOU COULD DEFINITELY CRAFT AN ORDINANCE IN A WAY THAT WE, AND IF YOU ALL WANNA DO THAT AGAIN, WE THOUGHT WE, WE JUST TALKED ABOUT THIS TODAY.
WE WERE GOING GIVE YOU THE, THE OPTIONS THAT WERE MORE RESTRICTIVE.
WE CAN FEEL LIKE YOU'RE SPLIT DOWN THE MIDDLE
WELL, NO, THIS IS A VERY GOOD DISCUSSION.
THIS, YOU KNOW, I'M GLAD WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS.
WE WANNA EXPLORE ALL THE OPTIONS.
NOW, YOU GUYS DID A GREAT JOB, BUT THE OPTIONS THAT YOU BROUGHT NOW NO, I DIDN'T WANNA MAKE IT MORE RESTRICTIVE.
I, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IF WE HAD SOMETHING OUT THERE THAT WE FOLLOWED IT AND WE JUST DIDN'T WAIVE IT EVERY TIME.
BECAUSE IF WE'RE GONNA WAIVE IT, EVERYTHING, ANYTHING, WHY HAVE IT? WE DIDN'T LIKE THAT EITHER.
JUST DON'T, I MEAN, IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.
SO I DO FEEL LIKE TO STILL HAVE PUBLIC HEARING, I MEAN, I DO THINK SOMETIMES THE NEIGHBORS DO APPRECIATE BEING NOTIFIED.
AND, AND HAVING THAT CHANCE TO COME SPEAK.
WELL, DO WE, DO WE STILL HAVE TO DO A PUBLIC HEARING IF WE GO THAT ROUTE? YES.
IF YOU, IF YOU CHANGE IT IN THE, OR IN THE ORDINANCE WHERE IT'S NO LONGER A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT MM-HMM.
WITH, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU HAVEN'T SET RESTRICTIONS, YOU KNOW, SO TARYN, WHAT IF WE DID THE AG ONES BY, RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU SAID THAT IT'S 60, 60% AND YOU NEVER HAD THEM IN CONDITIONAL USE BEFORE.
WE HAD 'EM IN CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IF YOU HAD FIVE ACRES OR LESS.
FIVE ACRES OR, OR OVER FIVE ACRES.
YOU DID NOT, YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO.
AND THERE WAS, I MEAN, WE COULD AT LEAST DO THAT.
SO THAT'S HOW WE ORIGINALLY APPROVED IT.
THE BOARD AT THAT TIME GOT A LOT OF PUSHBACK.
AGAIN, IT WAS NEW IN THOSE TWO YEARS BETWEEN WHEN THEY ORIGINALLY DID THE ORDINANCE AND THEN AMENDED IT TO ALLOW THEM ALL ONLY BY C P.
THEY HAD GOTTEN A LOT OF COMPLAINTS.
WELL, I'M REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT FREDERICK COUNTY DID.
CAN WE, IF YOU GOOGLE IT, YOU CAN, YOU CAN PULL IT UP WITH THEY, CAUSE IT WAS, I, I THINK SEPTEMBER OF 2022.
YOU COULD ONLY ALLOW THEM IN CONDITIONAL BY CONDITIONAL USE SPRINT IN THE RESIDENT RESIDENTIAL ONE DISTRICTS AND NOT IN THE AG.
I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S SO MANY OPTIONS.
I MEAN, BUT WELL, I KIND OF, KIND OF LIKE THE, THE OPTION ABOUT THE BUY RIGHT.
UM, ONLY BECAUSE WE'RE ONLY DOING, WHAT'S THE PERCENTAGE AGAIN? MS. OATS 6 66 1 HUNDREDS,
WE, WE TRACK THE, YOU'RE DEFINITELY GONNA GET A LOT MORE IF THEY'RE BUY, RIGHT? YEAH, WE DO TRACK.
YOU'RE GONNA THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
YOU'RE GONNA A WHOLE LOT MORE UNHAPPY PEOPLE.
YOU'RE GONNA GET, YOU'RE GONNA GET COMPLAINTS.
BUT I MEAN IF THAT'S, IT'S TOTALLY UP TO THE BOARD.
WELL, PLANNING STAFF, I, I THINK I WOULD WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE PUBLIC INPUT BEFORE I WENT TO THAT BEFORE I PERSONALLY WAS COM COMFORTABLE WITH IT.
CUZ I DON'T, I THINK THE PEOPLE ARE GONNA SEE THAT AS WE'RE RESTRICTING THEIR VOICE IN, IN THESE THINGS.
WHETHER WE VOTE THE WAY THEY WANT US TO VOTE FOR OR NOT, AT LEAST THEY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD WHERE NOW THEY WON'T.
WELL, IN ANY ORDINANCE AMENDMENT YOU HAVE, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING AND THE PROPOSED LANGUAGE IS GONNA HAVE TO BE ADVERTISED TO THE PUBLIC.
SO THERE WILL BE, JUST TO CLARIFY, THE, THERE WILL BE A CHANCE FOR THE PUBLIC TO COME AND SPEAK ABOUT ANY PROPOSED CHANGES THE BOARD HAS AND IF WE DO HAVE A BY RIGHT.
AND IF THERE IS A COMPLAINT, THEN THAT COULD BE THE CHECK MARK TO BRING IT TO THE BOARD FOR REVIEW.
I MEAN, I'M JUST THROWING THAT OUT THERE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, BUT ANYWAY, I YEAH, THAT'S A VERY, THAT'S GONNA BE HARD.
I MEAN TO, IT'S GONNA BE HARD ON STAFF CUZ WE'RE NOTIFYING THE NEIGHBORS, BUT WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOTIFYING WELL THAT'S A NOTIFY PUBLIC HEARING.
COULD THEY HAVE NO, UM, THEY HAVE NO RECOURSE.
IT'S, WHICH IS JUST WEAK IN THEIR NOSE.
AND THEN THAT'S, AND THEN THAT'S KIND OF PUTTING, YOU KNOW, CHASE TO JUST TO DECIDE DO YOU, ARE YOU ALLOWED TO SPEAK OR NOT? SO,
[02:20:01]
WELL, I WOULD SUGGESTED YOU, YOU KNOW, THINK ABOUT THIS OPTION FOR WE HAVE AND, AND YOU KNOW, AND, AND SO WHY IS IT HERE THEN? WELL, AGAIN, WHY DIDN'T, WE WERE LOOKING AT, WE WERE LOOKING AT, LOOKING AT, WE WERE KIND OF UNDER THE IMPRESSION TO MAKE, TO KEEP IT BY C AND NOT MAKE IT MORE, LESS RESTRICTIVE.WE COULD, WE COULD DO IT THIS WAY.
WE COULD DO MULTIPLE LESS RESTRICTIVE OPTIONS.
YOU, YOU CAN'T DO THAT IF IT'S A C U P.
YOU HAVE TO, BECAUSE IT'S A LEGISLATIVE ACTION.
THERE HAS TO BE A PUBLIC HEARING.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE PROCESS.
WE HAVE NOW, THE ONLY WAY TO GET RID OF THAT PROCESS WOULD BE TO MOVE IT INTO A BY RIGHT USE.
AND YOU COULD DO BY RIGHT BY ACREAGE LIKE WE HAD IN THE BEGINNING.
SO FREDERICK COUNTY, UM, CHOSE TO ALLOW BY RIGHT.
UNLESS THE RESIDENCE WAS LOCATED WITHOUT DIRECT ACCESS TO A STATE MAINTAINED ROAD THAT WAS SO THAT WOULD BE, THAT'S ALL OF OURS.
I WAS GONNA SAY THAT'LL BE EVERYTHING IN OUR, IN OUR COMMUNITY.
WELL, AND IT KIND OF SENDS, I MEAN, THINK ABOUT IT, IT KIND OF SENDS THE, WE'RE TRYING TO GET THE EASY WAY OUT SO WE DON'T HAVE TO DO AS, AS MUCH.
WELL SAY THE EASY WAY OUT, MORE EFFICIENT WAY OF DOING BUSINESS.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S EFFICIENT THOUGH.
I MEAN THE STAFF TO SAY, NO, NO, THIS DOESN'T MEAN ALL THE CHECK BOXES.
SO WE HAVE TO PUT IT IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN THE BOARD.
IN THE OTHER, IN THE OTHER WAY WITH THE C AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IS BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BRINGING THE INFORMATION TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION WITH JUST THE FACTS.
THEY'RE MAKING THEIR, THEIR RE THEIR RECOMMENDATION TO YOU AFTER HEARING EVERYTHING.
HAVING THAT, THEIR PUBLIC HEARING, YOU KNOW, IT, IT MAKES IT EASIER ON YOU IF THEY DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES OR ANYTHING WITH IT.
IT MAKES IT EASIER ON YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE PEOPLE COMING OUT FOR IT.
BUT IF YOU HAVE PEOPLE COMING OUT FOR IT, THAT'S A DIFFERENCE.
YOU AT LEAST, LEAST GOTTA LISTEN THEN THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF REALLY YOUR JOB.
I MEAN, I'M NOT TELLING YOU WHAT
AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE WAY I SEE IT.
IT'S OUR, THAT'S WHAT WE WERE ELECTED TO DO.
YOU KNOW, AND IF IT WELL, CAN YOU DO IT? SO WE DEFINITELY THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE MULTIPLE MEETINGS.
WELL, I WOULD, YOU KNOW, FOR WHATEVER IT'S WORTH, I I'LL LIKE TO, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT OPTION FOUR WOULD BE LIKE, NOT TO SAY THAT WE WOULD DO SO OPTION FOUR.
I MEAN, WE COULD DO SO I THINK YOU'LL HAVE SEVERAL MORE OPTIONS.
IN CERTAIN ZONING DISTRICTS, YOU COULD DO BUY RIGHT.
ALL ZONING DISTRICTS WITH THAT CHECK LIST.
THAT'S, AND THEN YOU COULD HAVE AN ANCHORAGE DOWN.
WELL, I'LL LET YOU GUYS GO THINK ABOUT IT.
WITH, YOU KNOW, WITH SOME TYPE OF CONSTRAINT.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, BUT, AND I ALSO THINK, I MEAN, IT'S GOOD TO HAVE THIS BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE DIRECTION NOW.
I MEAN, WE WERE DOING WHAT WE WERE THINKING.
I MEAN, WE WERE JUST NO GUESSING.
YOU'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE BOARD'S, WHAT THE BOARD'S INTENTION TO READ OUR MINDS.
CAN YOU WELL, BUT, AND THERE'S DIFFERENT OPINIONS.
WE HAVE A MOTION TO VOTE ON ON IT AS WELL.
AND I'M NOT TRYING TO GET OUTTA WORK.
I'M TRYING TO GET OUTTA REST RE LESS REGULATION ON OUR, ON OUR COMMUNITY.
I THINK GOVERNMENT IS INTO PEOPLE'S BUSINESS WAY TOO DEEP.
AND THEN FOR US IS TO RESTRICT IT.
FOR US, WE HAVE, WE HAVE THE, THE PLANNING AND ZONING, YOU KNOW, MINDS OF IT.
SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THE IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY.
LIKE WE'RE ALWAYS THINKING THAT, UM, I MEAN, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT'S LOOKING AT TOURISM, YOU KNOW, SO, AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
SO, YOU KNOW, JOE AND I HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS.
BUT, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S SO THAT, THAT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND TOO.
I MEAN, WHEN WE'RE PRESENTING IT'S MORE LIKE PLANNING AND ZONING IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY.
PUBLIC HEALTH MEETING WELFARE.
SO, AND IT DOESN'T, IT CAN BE A GOOD, IT CAN ABSOLUTELY BE A BALANCE OF BOTH.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION? CAN WE, CAN WE NOT DO IT LIKE PLANNING COMMISSION DOES? I MEAN, THEY HAVE, YOU HAVE YOUR LIST AND YOU GET YOUR CHECKLIST TOGETHER AND YOU BRING IT IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND IF PUBLIC HEARING PEOPLE COME IN FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING, THEY LISTEN TO IT.
[02:25:01]
THEY REQUEST EITHER AN APPROVAL OR A DENIAL.AND IT THEN CAN COME TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
IF NOBODY COMES, THAT PROCESS MOVES VERY QUICKLY.
IT COULD WORK THE SAME WAY WITH THE, WITH THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
WHEN WE GET IT, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO REQUEST A PUBLIC HEARING ON IT.
AND THE ONLY, UH, THERE WOULD BE NO DIFFERENCE IN DOING A PUBLIC HEARING ON AND IN VOTING ON IT THAT SAME NIGHT.
IF NOBODY SHOWS, AND IT CAN GO VERY QUICKLY.
YOU'RE LOOKING FOR PEOPLE THAT'S, UH, OBJECTING.
YOU WANT, YOU'RE LOOKING FOR PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT IT FOR A PARTICULAR REASON.
THERE IS A REASON WHY THEY DENY IT OR MOVE IT FORWARD TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
WELL, I'LL JUST SPEAK TO THAT A LITTLE BIT.
SO SOMETIMES WE DON'T KNOW WHO'S GONNA COME OUT FOR MICROPHONE OR, OR AGAINST SOMETIMES WE DON'T KNOW WHO'S GONNA COME OUT FOR OR AGAINST.
UM, SO, AND WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THEY, THEY, THEY KIND OF HAVE THEIR CRITERIA.
THEY'RE, THEY, THEY FACTOR IN THE CITIZENS, YOU KNOW, OPINIONS.
BUT THEY HAVE THAT SET CRITERIA OF THEY KNOW WHAT ZONING, WHAT, WHAT ZONING'S ABOUT.
AND THEY KNOW WHAT SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTAL'S ABOUT.
IF IT MEETS ALL THAT, THE ONLY THING THAT THEY MAY LOOK AT IS SOMETHING THAT'S DIFFERENT, LIKE WAVING A SETBACK.
OR SOMEBODY COMES OUT, YOU KNOW, ABOUT OPEN FIRES AND THAT KIND OF THING, WHICH WE'RE, AGAIN, WE'VE ADDRESSED THAT IN THE CONDITIONS AND WHATNOT.
UM, SO I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS IT'S THE SAME PROCESS FOR YOU.
UM, IT'S JUST, I GUESS WE'RE LUCKY IF SOMETIMES THEY, NOBODY COMES OUT AT THE PLAINTIFF COMMISSION, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE ANYBODY SHOW UP FOR YOURS AND, BUT YOU'RE LET, YOU HAVE GIVEN THE JOHN Q PUBLIC COMMUNITIES BECAUSE YOU'RE STILL GOING THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS.
YOU'RE TELLING THEM, PLEASE COME OUT.
I WANT TO HEAR IT'S TOTALLY UP TO THE INDIVI.
AND WE'VE HAD VARIOUS PEOPLE COME OUT FOR VARIOUS REASONS, YOU KNOW, BUT THE PRIMARY REASONS ARE, ARE GONNA BE YOUR NOISE, A LITTLE BIT OF, UH, INVASION OF PRIVACY, POTENTIALLY TRAFFIC ISSUES ON THEIR, THEIR ROAD, THAT KIND OF THING.
SO CAN YOU MITIGATE THAT IN THE CONDITIONS? IF WE CAN, WE TRY.
IF NOT, THEN IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S UP TO THE BOARD TO, YOU KNOW, DENY THAT AND IT'S UP TO JOHN PUBLIC COME IN AND SAY IT'S STILL UP TO THEM.
THEY HAVE TO FEEL STRONG ENOUGH ABOUT WELL, ABOUT IT.
AND, AND WE ARE, YOU KNOW, IF THEY DON'T WANNA COME IN HERE, THEY'RE BETTER AT THAT.
THEY CAN SUBMIT LETTERS TO US AND EMAIL AND WE PUT IT IN YOUR PACKET.
SO YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE THEIR, THEIR VOICES HEARD IN THAT WAY.
BUT WE'LL LOOK AT SOME OTHER OPTIONS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE LOOKING AT HOW IT WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN WITH THE ACREAGE.
AND, UM, MAYBE WE'LL HAVE, WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER WORK SESSION.
THANK YOU GUYS FOR ALL THE WORK AND CONSIDERATION THAT YOU GIVE THIS, BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE ARE MULTIPLE OPINIONS ON OUR BOARD.
AND SO IT'S, THERE IS A HAPPY MEDIUM.
AND WE JUST NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHERE IT IS.
WELL, THERE'S MULTIPLE OPINIONS IN THE COMMUNITY.
THERE'S MULTIPLE OPINIONS AMONG STAFF.
I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S AN INTERESTING TOPIC.
WELL, I THINK WE'RE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
AND FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, I THINK THAT YOU ALL DID A VERY GOOD JOB AT TRYING TO DIVINE WHAT WE WERE THINKING.
AND THANK YOU FOR THIS BECAUSE YEAH.
AND, AND WE'LL BE MOVING FORWARD WITH THESE.
THERE'S NO PAPER WITH THIS ONE.
SO NOW, OH, YOU'RE HANDING OUT PAPER.
[G. Fees for the Building Inspections and Planning Departments - David Beahm, Building Official, Matt Wendling, Planning Director]
OKAY.ARE THE FEES FOR THE BUILDING, INSPECTIONS AND PLANNING DEPARTMENTS.
MR. WELDING, YOU GOING FIRST? I THINK IT'S WHOEVER GETS TO THE PODIUM FIRST.
YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ENOUGH, RIGHT?
I'M GONNA MAKE THIS REAL SHORT.
I GUESS I'M BETTER STAY CLOSE TO THE MIC.
I'VE ONLY GOT 37 PAGES TO GO OVER WITH YOU,
[02:30:01]
OH MY GOSH.BEFORE YOU OPEN THEM UP, LET ME EXPLAIN WHAT YOU'RE RECEIVING.
SO IT'S NOT AS ENTAIL AS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
I WAS GONNA SAY, I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT MY PAJAMAS.
YOU'RE GIVING US THE COMPARISONS.
THE VERY FIRST THING THAT I WANT TO DO IS SHOW YOU WARREN COUNTY'S FEES FOR COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL ARE RIGHT HERE.
IT'S THE VERY FIRST TWO PAGES IN THERE.
CAUSE I DIDN'T DO A FRONT AND BACK.
BUT IT IS ONE PAGE AND THAT WAS WHAT OUR INTENT WAS TO KEEP IT SIMPLE.
SO IT WAS VERY, VERY CONFINED.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE COMPARISON CHART, I'VE GOT OUR CURRENT, I'VE GOT AN OPTION ONE, I'VE GOT AN OPTION TWO.
I'VE GOT CULP, PEPPER, FAULK, SHENANDOAH, FREDERICK, AND THE CITY OF WINCHESTER.
IF YOU NOTICE, CULP PEPPER COUNTY, WHICH IS THE FOURTH ONE OVER, IS FROM PAGES SEVEN TO 17.
THAT'S HOW MANY PAGES THEY HAVE.
UH, FA HERE, COUNTY HAS THREE PAGES.
SHENANDOAH COUNTY HAS TWO PAGES.
FREDERICK COUNTY HAS, UH, SIX I BELIEVE.
AND CITY OF WINCHESTER HAS ONE,
BUT THEY LEAVE A LOT OF THINGS OUT THAT THEY DON'T ACTUALLY COVER.
THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS DEPARTMENT DOESN'T COVER.
SO THEY KIND OF PUSH THOSE OFF TO OTHER DEPARTMENTS.
THE COMPARISONS THAT I WANT TO FOCUS ON ARE BASICALLY ARE CURRENT IN OPTION ONE AND ANY OF THE OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT YOU REALLY WANT TO LOOK AT.
AND I'VE NUMBERED THE PAGES SO THAT YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE SO THAT YOU, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE CORRESPONDING IS AS FAR AS THAT GOES.
UM, I WILL SAY THAT CAL PEPPER COUNTY HAS THEIR OWN PAGE NUMBERING AS WELL, SO DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THAT.
THE UNDERLYING ONE IS WHAT IS LISTED AS FAR AS ON THE PAGE.
CURRENTLY OUR DEPARTMENT RUNS AT ABOUT BETWEEN ON A BAD YEAR, APPROXIMATELY 40% OF WHAT OUR COSTS ARE.
SO WE'RE, AS A JURISDICTION, SUBSIDIZING 60% OF THE DEPARTMENT.
WHAT IS IT? IN A GOOD YEAR? ON A GOOD YEAR? IT'S APPROXIMATELY THE OPPOSITE.
WE HAVE HAD TWO YEARS SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE THAT WE'VE ACTUALLY COVERED OUR EXPENSES, COVERED THEM, AND ACTUALLY PUT MONEY BACK INTO THE JURISDICTION.
AND I HAVE TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS OF SAYING THAT IT, BECAUSE WHILE WE PUT MONEY IN THE DEPARTMENT, WE ALSO LOST THE YEARS BEFORE AND THE YEARS AFTER.
AND THE REASON I SAY THAT IS BECAUSE THE STATE LAW SAYS THAT YOU CAN ONLY COVER YOUR COSTS.
YOU'RE NOT HERE TO MAKE A PROFIT.
SO THERE'S BEEN ACTUALLY A LAWSUIT DOWN IN, UH, I BELIEVE IT WAS HENRICO COUNTY THAT, UH, DEVELOPER HAD GOTTEN AHOLD OF A MEMO SAYING, HERE'S THE MONEY THAT WE PUT BACK INTO THE COUNTY PROFIT INTO THE BANK, YOU KNOW, FROM OUR INSPECTION FEES.
AND A DEVELOPER GOT THAT, SUED THE COUNTY BECAUSE HEY, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PROFITING.
SO OPTION ONE IS THE ONE THAT I'M ACTUALLY GONNA BE PUTTING FORWARD TO YOU UNLESS YOU CHOOSE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
OPTION ONE, WE WILL PROBABLY STILL NOT COVER OUR COSTS, BUT WE WILL COME A LONG WAY TO GETTING CLOSE TO THAT.
I'M ANTICIPATING PROBABLY ABOUT 80 TO 90% AS FAR AS COVERAGE.
OPTION TWO, I CAN GUARANTEE THAT WE WILL COVER OUR COSTS.
SO IT'S KIND OF, IT'S GONNA BE YOUR DECISION HOW, WHICH WAY YOU WANT TO GO.
I WOULD PREFER TO GO AHEAD, GO WITH OPTION ONE BECAUSE IT'S MORE IN LINE WITH WHAT THE OTHER JURISDICTIONS ARE AT.
AND IF YOU LOOK, YOU HAVE SIX PAGES OF COMPARISONS.
AND IF YOU LOOK, THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT METHODOLOGIES FOR FIGURING FEES.
SHENANDOAH COUNTY, IF YOU LOOK, I THINK IT'S THE, I THOUGHT IT WAS CLOSER TO THE REAR PAGE 21 AND 22.
THIS ONE BECOMES PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE THEY GO OFF OF THE ACTUAL COST OF THE CONSTRUCTION.
WHO DETERMINES THE COST OF THE CONSTRUCTION? THE BUILDER, THE BUILDERS.
WE HAVE CONTRACTORS THAT CONSISTENTLY COME IN.
NOW THESE ARE TRADES CONTRACTORS, EVERYTHING'S
[02:35:01]
$999 BECAUSE THEIR LICENSE ONLY ALLOWS THEM TO DO UP TO A THOUSAND DOLLARS.WE HAVE NO MECHANISM TO GO OUT AND INVESTIGATE CONTRACTS OR ANYTHING ELSE.
SO THEORETICALLY WE HAVE TO TAKE THEIR WORD FOR IT.
YOU'RE SHOWING WHAT THE COST IS.
SO OUR PERMIT FEE WOULD BE BASED ON THAT FEE OR IN SHENANDOAH COUNTY AS THAT SALE OF A HOUSE.
YOU COME IN AND YOU PAY YOUR PERMIT FEES BASED ON WHAT THE MARKET IS TODAY OF SAY, 400,000 WHEN THE SALE OF THE HOUSE GOES FORWARD AND YOU'RE ONLY MAKING 300,000.
SQUARE FOOTAGES ARE BASICALLY THE BEST WAY THAT YOU CAN GO OFF OF, BECAUSE THEY DON'T CHANGE UNLESS YOU AMEND YOUR PLAN.
YOU EITHER PUT MORE OR YOU TAKE AWAY FINISHED SPACE, UNFINISHED SPACE, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
SO AGAIN, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO PUT FORWARD REALLY IS OPTION ONE, AND THAT'S GONNA BE PAGES THREE AND FOUR OF THE PROPOSAL.
ONE IS RESIDENTIAL, ONE IS COMMERCIAL, AND YOUR COMPARISONS ARE ALL RIGHT THERE.
SO THE WAY I TRIED TO LAY THIS OUT IS THE FIRST TWO COLUMNS ARE WHAT YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING AT.
IT'S THE CURRENT FEE AND WHAT THE NEW FEE WOULD BE.
BUT IF WE HAVE A GOOD YEAR, IF I HAVE A GOOD YEAR, IT IT, IT TURNS IT AROUND.
I, I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THAT.
WELL, IF YOU REMEMBER IN OUR BUDGET, YOU KNOW, THE BUDGET SHEET, WE HAVE THE TOTAL EXPENSES, AND THEN WE HAVE, UM, REVENUE AND FOR INSPECTIONS, THEIR REVENUE IS WHAT THEY GET ON FEES.
SO WHEN YOU HAVE THE EXPENSES AND THEN YOU PUT PUT THE REVENUE, THEN THAT GIVES THE BALANCE OF HOW MUCH IS COMING OUT OF THE, SO THEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT MAYBE 10 TO 20% THAT COMES OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND AND THE REST OF IT IS COVERED BY YOUR DEPARTMENT.
NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WITH, ESPECIALLY THIS YEAR, IS THE FACT THAT WE HAVE BUDGETING ITEMS SUCH AS IT THAT'S NO LONGER IN OUR DEPARTMENT.
OUR SOFTWARE IS NO LONGER IN OUR DEPARTMENT.
IT'S STILL AN EXPENSE THAT'S BEING INCURRED BY OUR DEPARTMENT, BUT IT'S COMING OUT OF ANOTHER DEPARTMENT.
SO YOU SEE THE VERY FIRST YEAR THAT MONEY MAY ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE IT'S MORE, BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES THAT ARE DRIVING THAT EXPENSE.
BUT IT'S NOT ACTUALLY IN OUR BUDGET LINE ITEM.
IT'S KIND OF LIKE A SERVICE CENTER.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS I WILL DRAW A NOTE TO IS ON PAGE THOUGHT IT WAS CLOSER TO THE FRONT, I APOLOGIZE, I WAS WORKING ON THIS UNTIL FIVE O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON TO GET IT READY FOR TONIGHT.
UM, THERE IS A TECHNOLOGY FEE IN THERE OF 2%.
WHY I HAVE PUT THAT IN THERE IS BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THESE FEES, OUR SOFTWARE IS DEVELOPED TO CALCULATE THE FEES AUTOMATICALLY.
THAT MEANS THAT WHEN WE CHANGE THESE FEES, EVERY SINGLE FEE THAT WE CHANGE, WE'VE GOT TO HAVE IT UPDATED.
ONE, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I DON'T REALLY WANT TO BRING UP, BUT I HAVE A STAFF MEMBER THAT IS DOING A LOT OF THIS WORK, BUT REALLY IS NOT BEING COMPENSATED FOR IT.
IT IT IS A TECHNOLOGICAL POSITION.
THEY'VE TAKEN THAT ON, THEY ENJOY DOING IT, BUT REALLY IT'S NOT, IT WITHIN THEIR JOB DESCRIPTION TO BE MODIFYING A A SOFTWARE PROGRAM, IT IS REALLY NOT FULLY CAPABLE BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROGRAM ITSELF NOR THE ACTUAL ACCESS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE AND HOW OUR FEES WORK.
SO WE'RE EITHER GOING TO INCUR AN EXPENSE BY THE SOFTWARE COMPANY TO UPDATE ALL THESE FEES, OR WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT HAVING IN-HOUSE STAFF TO UPDATE THESE FEES.
MY PRE PREFERENCE IS TO HAVE THE IN-HOUSE BECAUSE I WANT TO ALSO HAVE A REDUNDANCY BECAUSE EMMA DRIVES THIS ISSUE QUITE REGULARLY BECAUSE OF GIS.
SO I WOULD LIKE EMMA TO BE A BACKUP TYPE PERSON FOR THIS.
[02:40:01]
MY, UH, PERMIT CENTER SUPERVISOR CURRENTLY IS THE ONE THAT IS DRIVING THE SOFTWARE PACKAGE.SHE'S THE ONE THAT, UM, MITIGATES THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE.
SHE GOES IN AND TWEAKS THINGS.
SHE WORKS DIRECTLY WITH THE SOFTWARE COMPANY TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS RUNNING PROPERLY AND WE'RE STILL WORKING ON THAT TO GET THINGS TAKEN CARE OF.
I IS THERE, IS THERE ANY PROBLEM WITH ALTERING THE, THE PROGRAM LIKE THAT? I MEAN, ANY, NOT NECESSARILY, BUT WHEN YOU GET INTO THESE FEES, IT, IT'S LIKE AN EXEL EXCEL SPREADSHEET.
YOU HAVE TO SAY, OKAY, IF, IF, IF IT'S THIS, IT'S THIS AND IF IT'S OVER HERE THIS, THEN IT CHANGES THIS TO THIS, IT, IT, IT CAN GET VERY COMPLEX.
SO WHAT I WAS WONDERING WAS ARE ARE THERE ANY COPYRIGHT IMPLICATIONS ON THIS? NO.
NO, THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I KIND OF PUT THAT 2% IN THERE BECAUSE I CAN SEE THAT I'M EITHER GOING TO HAVE EXPENSES BACK TO THE SOFTWARE COMPANY OR I'M GONNA HAVE EXPENSES TO PERSONNEL TO COMPENSA COMPENSATE FOR THAT.
NOW THAT 2% IS IN YOUR BUDGET? NO, IT'S IN THIS FEE RIGHT NOW.
IT'S ABSORBED IN THE FEES? WELL, IT'S ACT ACTUALLY IN THE FEE SCHEDULE.
SO IT WILL BE A REVENUE STREAM.
IT'S ON THIS FRONT PAGE, THIS LONG SHEET DOWN.
IS IT ON THE FIRST SHEET? TECHNO NUMBER 23 OF THE SIDE PANEL.
I WAS THINKING IT WAS THE SECOND OR THIRD SHEET RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT NOW THERE ARE, THERE IS ONE ITEM THAT THE STATE IMPOSES AND THAT'S A 2% LEVY.
WHAT I'M PROPOSING IS AN ADDITIONAL 2% TO THE PERMIT FEE.
TO COVER THAT, THAT EITHER ADDITIONAL FOR PERSONNEL OR FOR THE SOFTWARE UPDATING.
BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO PAY FOR IT SOMEWHERE.
AND WE'RE ACTUALLY PAYING FOR IT NOW, BUT IT'S ANOTHER COMPENSATION.
THE ONLY OTHER JURISDICTION THAT DOES THAT IS CALL PEPPER COUNTY THAT I CAN SEE ON THEIR FEE SCHEDULES.
SO THIS WOULD GIVE US ENOUGH REVENUE TO BE WITHIN 20% OF OUR BUDGET THAT IS REQUIRED TO DO THE JOB CURRENTLY.
WOULD IT GIVE YOU THE CAPACITY THEN TO, TO HAVE HIGHER ADDITIONAL STAFF SO THAT YOU COULD SHORTEN THE CUSTOMER SERVICE TIME? IF WE WENT WITH OPTION TWO? YES.
IF WE STAY WITH OPTION ONE? NO, NO, I DON'T THINK SO.
BUT WOULD YOU PREFER OPTION ONE? THAT'S WHAT I'M PROPOSING BECAUSE ONCE THE, ONCE THIS GETS OUT FOR PUBLIC HEARING, CUZ IT TYPICALLY GOES FOR PUBLIC HEARING.
I KNOW THAT THE CONTRACTORS ARE GONNA BE OUT TO SAY, HEY, THE MARKET'S SHIFTING, YOU KNOW, AND NOW YOU'RE PROPOSING FEES.
UM, THEY ARE IN AGREEMENT THAT THE FEES DO NEED TO GO UP.
BUT I THINK THESE ARE PROBABLY MORE THAN WHAT THEY'RE ANTICIPATING.
SO YOU, YOU THINK THEY'LL BE MORE ACCEPTING OF OPTION ONE VERSUS TWO? MOST DEFINITELY.
AND THAT MAKES GOOD SENSE AND PROPOSED OPTION TWO AND THEN WHEN THEY PUSH BACK, SAY, OKAY, WE'LL GO WITH ONE AND THEN THAT IS YOUR PREROGATIVE.
I'M PUTTING THIS IN FRONT OF YOU SO YOU CAN TELL ME YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE OR NOT AND I CAN PUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER AND PUT THEM BEFORE YOU AT THE SAME TIME.
CUZ MOST OF THE MATERIAL IS ALREADY DONE, I DO WANT TO GO BACK AND JUST MAKE SURE THAT MY NUMBERS AND FIGURES AND EVERYTHING THING ARE WHAT I REALLY NEED TO HAVE.
WELL, WITH ME, I, I THINK ABOUT REVENUE PAYING FOR THE EXPENSES.
I DON'T THINK WE NECESSARILY FORGET IT, BUT YOU, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE HAVING A TURN DOWN IN THE CONSTRUCTION FIELD AND THEN YOU OVERBURDEN THEM, THAT'S JUST GONNA TURN IT DOWN EVEN MORE.
BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA PASS THESE ON TO THE CUSTOMER, THEIR CUSTOMER, WHEN THE CUSTOMER SAYS, OH, I CAN'T AFFORD THAT.
ESPECIALLY NOW WITH THE AMOUNT OF WHAT LUMBER AND STUFF.
I DON'T KNOW HOW PEOPLE ARE BUILDING HOUSES.
HONESTLY, I DON'T
BUT, UH, ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT I DO WANNA POINT OUT, IT'S KIND OF CONVOLUTED, ESPECIALLY WITH CULP PEPPER AND FAULK COUNTY, IF YOU LOOK AT 'EM, THEIR BASE PERMIT FEES ARE SUCH THAT IT'S KIND OF SOMEWHAT MISLEADING BECAUSE THEN THEY ALSO HAVE A PLAN REVIEW FEE THAT'S ADDED TO IT AND THEN THEY HAVE AN ADMINISTRATIVE FEE THAT'S ADDED TO IT.
[02:45:01]
PROPOSAL IS A HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR A RESIDENTIAL MINIMUM PERMIT FEE, CULP PEPPER COUNTY IS 75, F**K YOURS A HUNDRED, BUT I KIND OF WENT IN THE MIDDLE THERE.BUT PEPPER CHARGES A PLAN REVIEW FEE.
THEN THEY ALSO CH HAVE SOME ADMINISTRATIVE FEES THAT THEY THROW IN ON TOP OF THAT.
SO THE HUNDRED DOLLARS OR THE, THE $75 REALLY ISN'T $75.
THE HUNDRED 50, IT'S, YOU'RE GETTING UP, IT'S CALLED G AND A $300 THERE.
SO THIS SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE CUT RATE AIRLINE THAT CHARGES $150 FOR A CARRYON BADGE, PEANUT'S COST YOU $200.
THE THE OTHER THING IS, IF YOU LOOK AT PAGE 16 AND 17 OF 30, THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST CONFUSING FEE SCHEDULES THAT I HAVE SEEN OUT OF THE, ALL THE JURISDICTIONS AROUND US.
THEY GO INTO BUILDING COSTS, BUT THEY ALSO GO INTO A RATE TABLE.
SO AT THE BOTTOM OF PAGE 16 OF 30, IT SAYS YOUR FORMULA, YOU TAKE YOUR, YOUR SQUARE FOOTAGE TIMES 67 TIMES THE COST FACTOR TIMES 0.0057.
THAT'S HOW YOU FIGURE OUT YOUR BUILDING.
AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, YOU GO TO THE NEXT PAGE AND IT TELLS YOU, OKAY, WELL YOU'RE IN GROUP 1, 2, 3 OR FOUR.
THAT'S THE CAVEAT THAT YOU HAVE TO PUT INTO THE FACTOR ON THE FIRST PAGE.
THAT, THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTOOD OURS IS ONE PAGE FRONT AND BACK.
IT, WE TRY TO KEEP IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE AND THAT WAY IT'S HOPEFULLY EASY TO CALCULATE SO YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR COSTS ARE GONNA BE.
OBVIOUSLY SOMEBODY IN THIS DEPARTMENT HAD A LOT OF TIME ON THEIR HANDS.
I, I, I KNOW BOB OR HE'S A GREAT FRIEND, BUT I THINK THIS WAS ACTUALLY IN PLACE BEFORE HE, HE GOT THERE AND UM, HE'S JUST KIND OF CARRYING IT ON.
BUT, UM,
I BELIEVE THAT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE A COMMUNITY POT THAT THINGS GO INTO AND THE COMMUNITY POT DOESN'T BREAKS EVEN.
BASICALLY THEY, THEY, THEY DON'T, THEY COVER THEIR COSTS.
I TRIED TO GIVE IT TO YOU AS CONCISELY AS POSSIBLE CUZ THERE IS A LOT AND I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAD THE OTHER FEE SCHEDULES IN FRONT OF YOU SO YOU COULD TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE.
THAT'S, YEAH, I LOVE HAVING A COMPARISON.
I, I DON'T LIKE WHEN NUMBERS ARE THROWN OUT AND THERE'S NO SURROUNDING AREAS, YOU KNOW, TO, TO COMPARE TO.
AND I BELIEVE, I'M NOT SURE WHAT TIMEFRAME WE'RE GONNA TRY TO GET THIS ONTO THE AGENDA, BUT, UH, IT'LL BE THERE SHORTLY CUZ IF YOU LOOK AT THE BOTTOM OF OPTION ONE AND OPTION TWO, THE EFFECTIVE DATE IS SKET RIGHT NOW FOR JULY 1ST.
SO DO WE, DO WE HAVE TO HAVE PUBLIC HEARING WHEN WE DO FEE, UM, INCREASES.
THE LAST TIME THAT WE DID A FEE INCREASE, WE DID A PUBLIC HEARING.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S REGULATOR OR MANDATED, BUT I WILL.
IT'S BEEN SO LONG FOR PLANNING AND ZONING.
I KNOW, BUT, UM, I WOULD SUGGEST IT, I WOULD SUGGEST IT, GIVEN THE FACT IT'S MAY NOT BE A BAD IDEA TO EXTEND THAT OLIVE BRANCH OF HEARING INPUT.
WILL THIS GO TO THE PUBLIC NOW? OKAY.
SO THEN THE, THE CONTRACTORS WILL BE ABLE TO SEE IT TOMORROW.
I JUST WANT THEM TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO, TO, YOU KNOW, AND I'VE TALKED TO SOME OF THEM AND THEY DO BELIEVE THAT OUR FEES ARE ARE MM-HMM.
IF THEY'RE ABLE TO GET A BETTER QUALITY OF SERVICE, THEY'RE MORE WILLING.
WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THAT ISSUE WITH THE TOWN MM-HMM.
WE, WE GOT INUNDATED WITH A LOT OF WORK THAT WAS TAKEN FROM US AND THEN JUST KIND OF DROPPED ON BACK ALL
[02:50:01]
AT ONE TIME.SO NOW I DO, I WILL SAY ONE THING WITH REGARDS TO THAT.
YOU ALL STILL HOLD THE KEY AS TO WHO I CAN HIRE AND HOW MANY PEOPLE I CAN HIRE.
SO WHETHER MY FEES ARE ADJUSTED, IT, IT STILL IS DEPENDENT ON HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU, WHAT WE CAN PROVIDE AND FINDING QUALITY PEOPLE TOO.
THAT'S, THAT'S ANOTHER KEY TO IT.
UNLESS YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, I, I DO HAVE A QUESTION, BUT IT, IT'S NOT CONCERNING THIS AND I WANTED TO CATCH YOU UP AFTER THE, AT THE END IT'S, IT'S ON THAT THE ISSUE, THE FIRST ISSUE THAT WE COVERED.
UH, THIS EVENING I JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU A REAL QUICK QUESTION ON THAT, SO, OKAY.
AS LONG AS MATT KEEPS IT SHORT, I GOT HORSES IN CALS TO FEED
I HOPE YOU GOT A GOOD FLASHLIGHT.
UM, I'M GONNA JUST MENTION A COUPLE THINGS BEFORE WE GET GET GOING ON SOME OF THESE.
UH, YOU'LL KNOW WELL ON OUR FEE SCHEDULE LIST HERE THAT WE HAND OUT TO THE PUBLIC.
UM, WE HAVE A LITTLE NOTE AT THE BOTTOM OF IT.
UH, PAGE TWO APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ON APRIL 15TH, 2003.
AMENDED BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS APRIL 6TH, 2004.
UH, AS FAR AS I KNOW, THAT WAS LAST TIME WE, WE INCREASED ANY OF OUR FEES.
UM, I'LL MENTION ALSO THAT THE FEES DO NOT INCLUDE CUSTOMER SERVICE.
OUR DEPARTMENT IS INVOLVED WITH MUCH OF OUR TIME IN CUSTOMER SERVICE BETWEEN CITIZENS, CALLING REALTORS, CALLING BOARD MEMBERS.
YOU KNOW, WE, WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON CUSTOMER SERVICE AND TRYING TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY.
UM, IT DOESN'T REFLECT THE CROSS-TRAINING THAT WE DO.
A LOT OF US, YOU KNOW, HAVE CROSS-TRAINED IN VARIOUS THINGS.
UH, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR DEPARTMENT HAS TWO FLOODPLAIN ADMINISTRATORS, MIS, MR. LENS AND MYSELF ARE FLOOD CERTIFIED FLOODPLAIN ADMINISTRATORS.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, WE GOTTA FACTOR THOSE THINGS IN.
I THINK ALONG WITH EVERYTHING THAT DAVID MENTIONED AS FAR AS THE TOOLS THAT WE NOW USE, THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE USE, THE SOFTWARE THAT WE USE, YOU KNOW, THAT IS AN INTEGRAL COMPONENT OF HOW WE SERVE THE PUBLIC.
AND OUR ABILITY TO SERVE THE PUBLIC IN A GOOD WAY.
UH, THE GIS IS A CRITICAL COMPONENT IN OUR DEPARTMENT NOW AND WITH THE NG 9 1 1 SYSTEM, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR DISPATCHERS ARE DEPENDENT, ARE GONNA BE DEPENDENT.
COMPLETELY ON THAT, ON OUR GIS AND HOW WELL R GS IS BEING MAINTAINED AND UPDATED.
AND THAT'S INCLUDES ALL THE PARCELS AND EVERYTHING ENTER THE SAME WAY.
SO THE MORE WE COME BECOME DEPENDENT ON THESE TECHNOLOGIES AND THEY'RE NOT CHEAP, IT'S $9,000 A YEAR FOR, FOR OUR LICENSES FOR JUST ESRI.
THAT'S NOT INCLUDING ANY HARDWARE.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THOSE THINGS THAT ARE REALLY KIND OF OUTSIDE STAFF SALARIES THAT WE HAVE TO KIND OF FACTOR IN, IN THE BIG PICTURE OF HOW WE SERVE THE PUBLIC, HOW WE SERVE YOU, HOW WE SERVE OUR PLANNING COMMISSION.
SO I JUST WANNA MENTION THAT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT YOU TO KIND OF LOOK AT THESE, THIS PROPOSED, PROPOSED FEE CHART AND SAY, OH MY GOODNESS, BOY, THAT'S GOING UP A LOT.
WELL, I, I, STAFF AND MYSELF, WE, WE DID SOME RESEARCH IN, IN FRONT OF YOU.
WE HAVE CULP, PEPPER COUNTY, SHINDO COUNTY, FREDERICK COUNTY'S FEES IN FRONT OF YOU.
NOW, CULP PEPPER AND SHINDO COUNTY HAVE, UH, SOME SIMILAR DEMOGRAPHICS TO US.
AND THAT'S ONE REASON WHY WE CHOSE IT.
AND, UH, DAVID BURKE, OUR ZONING OFFICER WHO HELPED ME, UH, PUT THIS TOGETHER, HE, HE PUT FREDERICK COUNTY ON THERE CUZ HE CAME FROM FREDERICK COUNTY.
SO FREDERICK COUNTY'S A LITTLE BIT CHALLENGING AND, AND I JUST KIND OF, AT LEAST THERE IN ADJACENT COUNTY, WE HAVE SOME OF THEIR INFORMATION.
SO, UM, IF YOU LOOK ON THE, THE LARGE FEE SCHEDULE HERE THAT WE HAVE HERE, THAT KIND OF THE BREAKDOWN WITH ALL THE DIFFERENT COUNTIES.
UM, IF YOU GO DOWN, THE FIRST THREE COLUMNS ARE WARREN COUNTY AND YOU GO DOWN TO TEXTS, EVERYTHING BELOW TEXT, DOWN TO OUR MAP FEES, BASICALLY, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, WE DON'T PROVIDE THAT ANYMORE.
IT'S PROVIDED ALL DIGITALLY, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GO ONLINE TO OUR DIGITAL ZONING ORDINANCE.
WE SEND, WE SEND OUT LINKS TO PEOPLE, GO TO THE DIGITAL ZONING ORDINANCE.
[02:55:01]
CAN GO ONLINE AND SEE THE, THE COMP COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AS IT IS.SO WE'VE BECOME MORE TECHNOLOGY BASED IN THIS TIME SINCE THE LAST, UH, UH, AMENDED FEES AND THAT, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A COST TO THAT.
SO, UM, WE'LL GO BACK, WE'LL GO TO THE FEE SCHEDULE.
AND THE FEE SCHEDULE, YOU'LL SEE JUST THE PROPOSED FEES.
THESE ARE FEES THAT I COMPARED WITH ADJACENT COMMUNITIES.
AND I KIND OF THOUGHT, WELL, UM, WHAT WOULD WE WANT TO BE CHARGING FOR PEOPLE NOW WITHOUT HAVING TO INCREASE OUR FEES IN ANOTHER TWO, THREE YEARS? YOU KNOW? UM, I MEAN, WE CAN REEVALUATE MAYBE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE COUNTY CAN REEVALUATE THESE ON A YEARLY BASIS IF THEY WANT, BUT, YOU KNOW, I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE TO COME BACK, YOU KNOW, AND SAY WE'RE NOT MAKING, THE OTHER THING IS, AND I'LL, I'LL MENTION THIS AND, AND SPECIFIC TO, TO ZONING AND PLANNING ITEMS THAT HAVE TO BE ADVERTISED FOR PUBLIC HEARINGS.
THE COST OF OUR ADVERTISING IN THE LOCAL PAPERS HAS GONE OUT SIGNIFICANTLY AND WE'RE REQUIRED TO ADVERTISE IN ONE, UH, PAPER MEDIA.
WE HAVE, UH, I'VE, I'VE MADE A DECISION TO CUT BACK TO NOT ADVERTISE IN THE SENTINEL ANYMORE, UM, JUST AS A, AS A COST SAVINGS FOR THAT E BECAUSE THAT'S FOR EACH OF THE APPLICATIONS.
AND THEN OF COURSE THERE'S MAILING COSTS CUZ WE DO MAIL OUT LETTERS TO ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS.
AND WHEN YOU HAVE A REZONING, LIKE WE HAD, WE'VE HAD TWO OF THE REZONINGS, THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT YOU'RE SENDING OUT AND ACCUMULATIVELY WITH YOUR CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, THAT COULD BE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY.
SO, UM, I'VE, UH, FIRST COLUMN IS YOUR PROPOSED FEES.
UM, I DID YOU'LL NOTE, I I I HAND CHANGED THE ONE FOR ZONING VARIS, CUZ I REMEMBER THAT CHASE WAS TELLING ME THIS RECENT ONE, HE ENDED UP SPENDING ALMOST $400 IN ADVERTISING FEES AND THAT'S NOT INCLUDING YOUR, YOUR, UH, YOUR MAILINGS THAT HE HAD TO DO.
SO, UM, AND HE, AND HE'S PUT A, A LOT OF STAFF TIME INTO THAT, UH, BZA, UM, REQUEST.
AND WE DON'T INCLUDE THE, THE EDUCATION WE'RE REQUIRED TO EDUCATE OUR BZA UH, MEMBERS.
SO THERE'S A COST TO THAT IN EDUCATING THEM.
SO, UH, I JUST THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA MAKE THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE.
SO, SO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS YOU'RE SEEING YOUR PROPOSED FEE, YOU'RE SEEING THE EXISTING FEE.
IS IT AN EXISTING FEE? YES, IT'S AN EXISTING FEE.
IS IT A NEW FEE? YES, IT'S A NEW FEE.
AND THEN, UH, THE, THE FOURTH, WELL FIFTH COLUMN IS CURRENT FEE.
THIS IS THE, THAT'S THE CURRENT, CURRENTLY WHAT WE'RE CHARGING.
AND THEN JUST COMMENTS WERE, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, PUT IN THERE TO GIVE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
UH, WE LOOK AT THE, LET'S GO DOWN TO THE CUS CUZ WE SEE MORE OF THEM THAN ANYTHING.
AND THEY TAKE UP A, A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF STAFF TIME BETWEEN QUESTIONS AND, YOU KNOW, DOING POST-APPROVAL, UM, UH, UH, WORK WITH THE, WITH THE APPLICANTS.
UH, RIGHT NOW WE'RE CHARGING $500.
THAT'S PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING THAT COMES IN HERE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF CHURCHES AND PRIVATE USE CAMPING, UM, CHURCHES, WE REQUIRE THAT THEY PROVIDE US, UM, A DOCUMENT THAT SHOW THEY'RE TAX EXEMPT, UH, PRIVATE USE CAMPING.
WE MADE A DECISION A FEW YEARS AGO THAT, BECAUSE TYPICALLY THOSE LOTS HAVE MAYBE THREE PEOPLE AROUND IT.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT COMMERCIAL USE AND THEY'RE, THAT, THAT'S JUST BASICALLY TO BRING PEOPLE INTO COMPLIANCE, YOU KNOW, LIVING ON THE RIVER, YOU KNOW, FOR CAMPING ON THE RIVER.
SO WE, WE D D DETERMINED THAT TO BE A NONPROFIT.
UM, AGAIN, YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY DOING, WHAT WE'RE, UH, THE PROPOSED VR IS, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'M BRINGING THIS TO YOU.
I JUST KIND OF, I WANTED TO PICK A LITTLE BIT OF A HIGH NUMBER IF YOU WANNA LOOK AT THAT.
IT, IT COULD BE CONSIDERED A HIGH NUMBER, BUT I WANTED TO GET A BETTER FEEL FOR HOW YOU, HOW YOU WANT TO APPROACH THIS.
A LOT OF THESE NUMBERS ARE EQUAL TO WHAT SHINDO COUNTY AND CULP PEPPER COUNTY HAS, UH, FREDERICK COUNTY, FORGET ABOUT IT.
YOU KNOW,
UM, YOU KNOW, SO, YOU KNOW, I I, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE HAD AND WHAT WE HAVE, WHAT I'M PROPOSING, YEAH, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF, OF A BIG NUMBER.
[03:00:01]
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE ADJACENT COMMUNITIES ARE CHARGING, IT'S, IT'S PRETTY MUCH GOING WITH WHAT THEY ARE, WHAT THEY HAVE NOW.AND AGAIN, WE'RE LOOKING 20 YEARS OF CHANGE IN 20 YEARS OF ECONOMICS.
SO, UM, IT'S LIKELY THAT THEY'VE UPDATED THEIRS SINCE 2003, RIGHT.
SO, UH, UNLESS TARYN HAS ANYTHING SHE WANTS TO ADD TO THAT, CUZ SHE'S BEEN HERE THAT WHOLE TIME ALSO, AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WE REALLY STRIVE TO GIVE GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE TO PEOPLE.
IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME, OUR STAFF TIME.
WE STRIVE TO, YOU KNOW, KEEP OURSELVES EDUCATED THROUGH PROFESSIONAL COURSES THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE, YOU KNOW, UM, I MEAN, AND I'LL TELL YOU, I MEAN, MY STAFF CHASE IS DOING NOW WHAT YOU MIGHT EXPECT FROM A SENIOR PLANNER OR, OR, OR DEPUTY PLANNING DIRECTOR.
WHAT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE, HE'S DOING EMMA, IS, IS DOING WHAT A, UH, WHAT A, UH, GIS ADMINISTRATOR'S DOING AS A COORDINATOR.
UM, AND, AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WITH OUR OTHER STAFF, VERONICA AND DAVID, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE, THEY'RE STRIVING AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE LEARNING AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PROVIDING AS WHAT I FEEL IS GOODS CUSTOMER SERVICE TO, TO THE PUBLIC.
SO, UM, WE'RE NOT GONNA COVER ALL OUR COSTS.
WE'RE NOT LIKE DAVID, WE'RE NOT EVER GONNA DO THAT.
BUT IF WE CAN JUSTIFY WITH SOME OF THIS, UH, RE UH, REVENUE TO BE ABLE TO GET SOME ADDITIONAL STAFF MEMBERS THAT WE'VE REQUESTED, THE THE GIS INTERN OR, UH, TECHNICIAN AND, AND AN, UH, A, UH, INCREASE IN, YOU KNOW, A PROMOTION FOR EMMA AND THEN POTENTIALLY ANY OTHER STAFF THAT WE MAY NEED, YOU KNOW, IN THE FUTURE.
UM, YOU KNOW, TH THIS'LL BE, I WON'T WANNA SAY IT'LL BE A DROP IN A BUCKET, BUT WE WILL, IT'LL HELP US THROUGH THAT.
AND THEN TO COVER SOME OF THOSE TECHNOLOGY COSTS THAT WE WE'RE INCURRING.
HOW ABOUT IF WHEN I COME BACK I KIND OF FIGURE OUT IF I CAN CALCULATE THAT? I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA BE ANYWHERE NEAR IT, BUT IF WE CAN PUT A BIG ENT IN IT, THAT WOULD BE GOOD.
AND IF IT WOULD HELP US JUST FOR, FROM A MANNING STANDPOINT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE INCREASED STAFF TO BE ABLE TO SERVE THE PUBLIC BETTER AND DO OUR JOBS BETTER, UM, THE REVENUE IS, IS WORTH IT FOR, FOR ME AND FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR OUR STAFF AS A WHOLE AND FOR THE CITIZENS, I REALLY THINK IT WOULD BE TO, TO KNOW THAT WOULD BE HOW MUCH INCREASE IN, IN FEES THAT WE'VE GOT.
I MEAN, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A 75 OR 80 OR EVEN 90% COVERED.
AND IF, IF IT MEANS GOING UP ON EVEN THESE FEES, IT MAY BE WORTH IT YEAH.
TO GET THE PEOPLE THAT WE NEED TO DO THE JOB CORRECTLY AND PAY THE BILLS.
I'LL, UH, I'LL HAVE SOME NUMBERS.
I'LL PUT SOME NUMBERS TOGETHER FOR YOU BETWEEN NOW AND THE NEXT TIME WE REVISIT THIS OR WHERE, HOWEVER WE'RE GONNA DO THIS.
I'LL TRY AND GET SOME, SOME THINGS TOGETHER AS FAR AS WHAT WE HAVE CURRENT REVENUE AND WHAT WE'VE HAD AS REVENUE.
AND THEN OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THE BUDGET Y Y'ALL ARE GOING THROUGH THE BUDGET, RIGHT.
SO YOU'LL SEE KIND OF WHAT WE HAVE STAFFING WISE AND COST TO STAFFING.
UM, AGAIN, TO ME, OUR MOST VALUABLE ASSET IS THE PEOPLE I HAVE WORKING FOR, FOR WARREN COUNTY WORKING FOR, THEY WORK FOR YOU, THEY WORK FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
THEY JUST, I'M, I'M JUST THERE TO HELP MANAGE 'EM AND, AND, UH, THEY'VE DONE A GREAT JOB.
SO, UM, I MEAN, I'M EVEN LOOKING AT YOUR PRESENTATION AND IT SAYS HERE FOR ZONING COMPLIANCE REVIEW, STAFF MONITOR WEBSITES TO SEE IF RENTALS ARE BEING ADVERTISED WITHOUT CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS.
IS THAT BEING DONE? IT, IT'S, IT, IT HAS BEEN DONE.
AND MR. BURKE IS, IS LEARNING THAT HE'S, HE'S KIND OF GETTING THAT INTO HIS WORKFLOW.
UH, HE'S ONLY BEEN WITH US FOR A LITTLE WHILE NOW, BUT HE'S, HE'S DONE A LOT OF WORK KIND OF THAT I'VE ASKED HIM TO DO, KIND OF JUST TO GET HIM ORIENTED TO WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE.
THAT'S A PART OF THAT THAT HELPS PART OF THAT REVIEW, PART OF THAT ABSOLUTELY.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, SO WE DO THE BEST WE CAN WITH THE STAFF WE HAVE, BUT WE, WE CERTAINLY FEEL LIKE IF, IF WE CAN GET ADDITIONAL REVENUES, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THESE ARE FEES, NOT TAXES, BUT I KNOW THEY'RE KIND OF CLOSE, BUT THEY'RE NOT RIGHT.
THEY'RE NOT BURDENING ALL OF THE COUNTY.
THEY'RE BURDENING JUST THE PEOPLE WHO WANT THAT SPECIFIC PLANNED USE OR SPECIFIC THING DONE.
AND WE'VE HAD A LOT OF THE SURVEYOR SAY, WHEN ARE YOU GONNA INCREASE YOUR FEES?
[03:05:01]
I'VE HEARD THEY ALL WANT TO PAY YOU MOREWELL, I THINK THEY DON'T WANNA SUBSIDIZE, A LOT OF THE PEOPLE DON'T WANNA SUBSIDIZE PEOPLE'S PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL NEEDS, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T MIND HELPING OUT OTHER AREAS.
BUT WHEN YOU'RE PAYING FOR A REZONING, FOR INSTANCE, AND YOU'RE SUBSIDIZING 40% OF THAT RIGHT.
THEN I THINK WE HAVE A JUSTIFICATION TO RAISE MM-HMM.
SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ANYBODY HAS? WELL, JUST TO UPDATE THE BOARD, I HAVE, UM, FOUND THE CODE SECTIONS THAT REQUIRE BOTH FEE SCHEDULES TO, UM, TO BE ADOPTED BY ORDINANCE, WHICH MEANS YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING.
SO JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT.
SO IF YOU HAVE A TIMELINE, YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS ONE TO LET DAVID AND I KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'LL TWEAK EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE AND DO, DO WE WANT TO TAKE, HAVE THESE FEES BE IN EFFECT BY FISCAL YEAR 24 IS WHAT WE WANT? YES.
I MAY NOT THINK EVEN APRIL OR MAY IF YOU ARE ALREADY OKAY.
WE CAN, YOU CAN WORK WITH THAT SOONER THAN LATER.
DALEY IS SAYING SOONER THAN LATER FOR THE FEES.
I MEAN, JUST TO GET 'EM IN AND READY.
BUT WE ALSO NEED THIS AS PART OF THE BUDGET TOO.
I MEAN, I'D WANT TO KNOW THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING THIS BEFORE WE DO THE BUDGET OR FINISH THE BUDGET.
WELL AT LEAST, OR AT LEAST KNOW WHAT REVENUE STREAM THAT WE'RE GONNA GET YEAH.
TO OFFSET THE EXPENDITURES FOR THE NEXT YEAR.
A GOOD BALLPARK IS, IS BETTER THAN NO BALLPARK AT ALL.
AND WE, WE CAN GET, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REFERRING TO, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, GUESS THAT AS BEST AS POSSIBLE, RIGHT.
I MEAN, THAT WOULD, WE NEVER, WE NEVER, NEVER KNOW WHAT'S GONNA COME IN.
I'VE SEE THAT TO OFFSET THE EX, UM, THE EXPENSES, YOU KNOW, CUZ RIGHT NOW THEIR REVENUE IS BEING BASED BY TODAY'S NUMBERS.
SO IF THEY'RE GOING TO INCREASE THE FEES, IT'D BE INTERESTING TO KNOW HOW THE REVENUES ARE BEING OFFSET FROM THE EXPENDITURES TO HELP US MAKE A BETTER DECISION ON PROVING THEIR BUDGETS.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? DO WE WANT TO ADJOURN THIS MEETING? MOTION TO ADJOURN.