* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:02] OKAY, THIS ONE WORKS WE'LL. SHARE. UM, I WANNA THANK EVERYONE [A. Call To Order] FOR COMING TONIGHT FOR THE SPECIAL WORK SESSION OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND JUST WANNA GO OVER A FEW THINGS, UM, FOR WORK SESSIONS. THIS IS NOT A PUBLIC COMMENT TIME, SO DO APPRECIATE THE PUBLIC COMING OUT, BUT IT'S NOT A QUESTION ANSWER TIME FOR THE PUBLIC. IT'S CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE GROUP, UH, REPRESENTING THE LIBRARY AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. AND, UM, SO ALL THE SAME RULES OF CONDUCT APPLY HERE THAT APPLY DURING ANY OF OUR BOARD MEETINGS, YOU KNOW, UM, TO NO BOOING OR CALLING OUT FROM THE, FROM THE AUDIENCE WOULD APPRECIATE THAT. AND I'M GONNA TURN, UH, [B. Discussion with Samuel's Public Library Board of Trustees] THE PRESENTATION OVER TO MRS. COOK AND DR. JAMISON, BECAUSE THIS IS THEIR COMMITTEE REPORT. AND SO I WILL TURN IT OVER TO YOU. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. I'D LIKE TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR COMING AS WELL. UM, THE MRS. COOK AND MYSELF, UH, WERE ON A, UH, LIBRARY, UH, RESEARCH DEBRIEF 2023 DEBRIEF AND RESEARCH SUBCOMMITTEE AS PART OF OUR GOALS FOR THE 2024 SEASON. SO, GIVEN THAT THE NATURE OF THE, OF THE, YOU KNOW, I'LL JUST SAY CONFLICT, UH, CONFLICTS IN OUR COMMUNITY LAST YEAR, UM, WE THOUGHT IT WAS, IT WAS IMPORTANT TO ADDRESS WHAT HAPPENED AND RESEARCH THE PAST AND RESEARCH THE FUTURE, UH, AND THE PRESENT. SO THERE IS THAT THEY CAN'T HEAR YOU IN THE BACK. I'M SORRY. SO THAT'S THE NATURE OF, OF OUR SUBCOMMITTEE. AND THIS IS ACTUALLY NOT OUR, OUR COMMITTEE REPORT. UM, THIS IS A, THIS IS PRECEDING OUR COMMITTEE REPORT IN TERMS OF GETTING AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THE, THE TRUSTEES, THE PEOPLE WHO RUN SAMUELS, UM, TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE THINGS THAT, THAT COME UP ON, ON THIS SUBCOMMITTEE RESEARCH PROJECT. SO THAT IS THE NATURE OF THIS DISCUSSION. IT'S BRINGING THINGS INTO THE FORE TO SAY, WHAT DO WE THINK ABOUT THIS? CAN WE TALK ABOUT THIS? WHAT HAPPENED? UM, AND SO ON. UM, WHOOPS. ALREADY TOO QUICK ON THE BUTTONS HERE, ONLY FIVE, UH, BULLET POINTS. THIS, THIS IS REALLY SOMETHING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE CAN HAVE DISCUSSION. IF THERE'S NOTHING MORE TO DISCUSS, WE CAN MOVE ON. UM, THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS IS ESSENTIALLY IS, IS THE, AN ENCAPSULATION. I THINK EVERYBODY ALREADY HAD, UH, THE, THE WORD DOC OR WHATEVER IT WAS, THE LONG FORM OF THESE DISCUSSION POINTS. SO THOSE ARE EXPANDED. THIS IS JUST AN OUTLINE. SO THE FIRST ITEM IS THE, UH, DISCUSSION ABOUT THE REPRESENTATION AND ACCOUNTABILITY OFT FOR TAXPAYER CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE LIBRARY. UH, BETWEEN 2007 AND 2023, TAXPAYERS HAVE PAID 88 TO 91% OF ALL PUBLIC LIBRARY COSTS. DISCUSS HOW ONE TAXPAYER REPRESENTATIVE ON A BOARD OF 16 TRUSTEES OF A PRIVATE COMPANY IS CONSISTENT WITH TAXPAYER ACCOUNTABILITY FOR PUBLIC SERVICES. THE UNDERLYING FUNDAMENTAL HERE IS THAT THE, THE PUBLIC MONIES OF THE COUNTY ARE, UH, DISTRIBUTED OR ARE ALLOCATED AND DISPERSED BY ELECTED OFFICIALS OF THE COUNTY. SO WHEN THERE IS A PUBLIC SERVICE BEING PROVIDED, THE PUB, THE, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAVE TO BUDGET, ALLOCATE AND ALLOCATE THE MONEY. WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT. IT'S FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAS. UM, SO THAT IS A A YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE A, THERE'S A COUPLE OF COUPLE OF BACKUP SLIDES TO PROVIDE SOME CONTEXT, UH, FOR THIS DISCUSSION. ON THE LEFT, UH, IS THE, THE A PIE CHART THAT REPRESENTS THE PROPORTIONS OF FUNDS FROM 2007 TO 2023. ALL THE DATA ON THESE, UH, REPORTS COMES FROM THE SAMUELS WEBSITE. UH, THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS THAT ARE DOWNLOADABLE IN PDF FILES FROM SAMUEL'S WEBSITE. UM, SO THE, THE TOTAL FOR THIS PERIOD FOR THE COUNTY'S CONTRIBUTION, OR SORRY, TAXPAYER CON CONTRIBUTIONS ARE 23 MILLION, $59,000. UH, THE PRIVATE CONTRIBUTIONS ARE $1.7 MILLION. IN HERE. WE HAVE ALSO FEES OF $900,000 IN INVESTMENT INCOME OF $488,000. SO IN PROPORTIONALITY TERMS, UH, THE BLUE IS, IS ABOUT 88%. DEPENDS HOW, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME, SOME THINGS IN HERE ABOUT WHETHER FEES OR PRIVATE CONTRIBUTIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO THE PERCENTAGES, YOU KNOW, MAY SPLIT 1% HERE OR THERE. UH, THE GOVERNANCE OF THE, OF THE LIBRARY IN THE CURRENT SITUATION, HOWEVER, [00:05:01] IS, IS, UH, 15 TO ONE PRIVATE TO PUBLIC. SO THE NATURE OF THE, UH, ARRANGEMENT WITH THE PRIVATE CONTRACTOR LIBRARIES THAT THE BOARD OF, UH, SUPERVISORS GETS ONE SEAT ON THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE PUBLIC LIBRARY. SO THERE'S AN IMBALANCE AND INVERSION THERE THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS RELEVANT. THE NEXT POINT OF CONTEXT IS THE, UH, THE FUNDING OF, OF THE PUBLIC LI YES. WOULD YOU WANNA RUN THROUGH ALL OF THE NO, NO. IF YOU WANT US TO RESPOND, WELL, AFTER I PROVIDE THE CONTEXT OF JUST THE, THERE'S THIS SLIDE IN ONE MORE SLIDE, THEN, THEN WE'LL SETTLE ON THIS AS A DISCUSSION POINT. I'M NOT GONNA GO THROUGH ALL THE DISCUSSION POINTS. WHAT THIS, THE SLIDE REPRESENTS IS THE COUNTY. THIS IS JUST THE COUNTY FUNDING, NOT, NOT ANY OTHER FUNDING. THE COUNTY FUNDING OF ARE THE BLUE BARS, UH, FROM 2005 TO 2024. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S EVIDENT IS THAT THERE, THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME OF ABOUT 12 YEARS WHERE THE FUNDING, UH, UH, WAS GROWING AT ALMOST 10% PER YEAR, WHILE INFLATION WAS, UH, AN AVERAGE DURING THAT TIME OF 1.8399999999999999%. AND THE POPULATION GROWTH WAS, UH, 0.85%. SO DURING THIS TIME, THE, THE FUNDING OF THE LIBRARY WAS ALMOST QUADRUPLE. THE, THE COMBINED POPULATION IN INFLATION GROWTH AND THE, THE, IT DID EVENTUALLY SLOW DOWN. UM, THE POINT OF THIS IS TO SHOW THAT THE, THE BASIS OF FUNDING IS, IS, HAS GROWN. AND WHEN A BASIS GETS LARGE, THEN EVERY INCREASE AFTER THAT IS LARGER. SO WHEN A PUBLIC SERVICE GROW STARTS TO HAVE A LARGE BASIS, THEN EVERY YEAR WHEN THERE'S AN INCREMENTAL INCREASE THAT THE, THE PROPORTIONAL SHARE OF THAT, UH, GROWS OUT OF PROPORTION TO THE OTHER PUBLIC SERVICES. AND THE LAST, UH, CONTEXTUAL SLIDE, UM, ILLUSTRATING THE SITUATION HERE IS THE, THE, THE IMBALANCE BETWEEN GOVERNANCE AND FUNDING. AND, UH, THE, THE, THE, THE PRIVATE ORGANIZATION THAT'S CONTRACTED TO RUN THE LIBRARY HAS 15 OUT OF 16 SEATS OF THE GOVERNANCE CONTROL. AND THE, THE, THE TAXPAYER IS PAYING THE, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE, OF THE, IT'S A PUBLIC SERVICE SUPPORTED BY PUBLIC TAX DOLLARS PREDOMINANTLY. SO THAT, THAT IS THE CONTEXT, UM, FOR, FOR THE DISCUSSION. SO THAT, YOU KNOW, LET'S OPEN IT UP FOR DISCUSSION. ANY, ANY THOUGHTS OR, OR IF YOU WILL, PUSH THE BUTTON AND MAKE SURE THE GREEN LIGHT ON. OKAY. CAN EVERYBODY HEAR ME? I CAN HEAR YOU. OKAY. UM, FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME BEFORE YOU TONIGHT. UM, MY NAME'S MELODY HOEK, AND I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE LIBRARY BOARD. UM, TO MY RIGHT, WE HAVE, UH, THOUGHT IT'D BE GOOD TO KNOW EVERYONE'S NAME, UH, SINCE WE'RE GOING TO BE ENTERING INTO DISCUSSIONS. THIS IS MICHELLE LEISURE, SHE'S OUR TREASURER. UM, MADELINE HICKMAN IS OUR SECRETARY. UM, WHITLOW IS OUR, UM, VICE PRESIDENT , UM, YOU KNOW, ERIN ROONEY, OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR. AND THIS IS LOUIS MOTEN, WHO IS OUR AT LARGE. UM, WE, WE CHOOSE TO LOOK AT THIS WORK SESSION TONIGHT AS AN OPPORTUNITY. IT'S CLEAR THAT YOU STILL HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT LAST YEAR'S EVENTS, AND MAYBE TOGETHER WE CAN PUT THIS TO REST AND MOVE FORWARD AS PARTNERS TO CONTINUE PROVIDING EXCELLENT SERVICES. SINCE WE WERE LAST, BEFORE YOUR BOARD, WE'VE HAD A RIBBON CUTTING AT THE STUDIO THREE 30, UM, A NEW MEMORY LAB AND MAKERSPACE. AND WE'VE EMPLOYED A NEW PART-TIME SPECIALIST TO RUN THOSE PROGRAMS. ON OCTOBER 17TH, WE TRAVELED TO NORFOLK TO RECEIVE THE THREE AWARDS YOU SEE BEFORE YOU HERE. UM, YOUR INVESTMENT IN THE COMMUNITY'S LIBRARY HAS RESULTED IN SAMUEL'S LIBRARY BEING NAMED LIBRARY OF THE YEAR FOR THE STATE OF VIRGINIA. UM, WE ALSO RECEIVED CONGRATULATORY LETTERS FROM BOTH CONGRESSMAN BEN KLEIN AND SENATOR MARK WARNER. SO I THINK THAT'S A REAL CAUSE FOR YOU ALL TO CELEBRATE, AND IT HASN'T BEEN MENTIONED IN THE PRESS AT ALL BY THE BOARD, SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU GOT A CHANCE TO SEE THE AWARDS AND COULD FEEL GOOD ABOUT WHAT'S, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE. SINCE RECEIVING YOUR INVITATION AND QUESTIONS ON THURSDAY, OUR BOARD HAS DILIGENTLY WEIGHED IN WITH RESEARCH FEEDBACK, RECOLLECTIONS, FACTS AND FIGURES, THOUGH I'LL TAKE THE LEAD TONIGHT. I WANT YOU TO REST ASSURED THAT THESE COMMENTS ARE UNITED. WE'RE ALL UNITED IN OUR RESPONSES AS FAR AS REPRESENTATION AND ACCOUNTABILITY. YOUR FIRST POINT, SAMUEL'S PUBLIC [00:10:01] LIBRARY IS ACTUALLY A NON-FOR-PROFIT ENTITY AND NOT A COMPANY WHOSE SOLE'S MISSION IS TO PROVIDE LIBRARY SERVICES FOR THE RESIDENTS. THE PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP IS A QUALIFYING PROJECT UNDER YOUR OWN CODE 39.2 0.2, AND HAS BEEN A SUCCESSFUL MODEL OF EXCELLENCE IN THE COUNTY OFFICIALLY SINCE RECEIVING ITS IRS DESIGNATION IN 1978. IN FACT, SAMUELS CAN TRACE ITS HISTORY OF SERVICE TO FRONT ROYAL BACK TO 1799. THIS PARTNERSHIP RELIES ON BOTH PUBLIC FUNDS FROM YOU AND PRIVATE GRANTS, MAXIMIZING THE LIBRARY'S ABILITY TO SECURE STATE FUNDING, FEDERAL PROGRAM FUNDING, GRANTS DONATIONS, VOLUNTEERS, NOT-FOR-PROFIT SPECIFIC SOURCING. AND TO AVOID APPEARING GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED PER IRS REGULATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS FOR CHARITABLE STATUS. THERE ARE A LOT OF ADVANTAGES TO THIS PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP THAT WE CAN LEVERAGE THAT RELATIONSHIP IN OUR, AS A NONPROFIT TO THE BENEFIT OF THE TAXPAYERS BETWEEN 2007. HERE'S WHERE WE DIFFER, UM, ON YOUR NUMBERS. AND IT MIGHT WARRANT AN A, A DIFFERENT SIT DOWN WHERE WE CAN GO OVER WHERE YOU PULL THOSE NUMBERS FROM. BECAUSE WHEN WE LOOKED AT OUR EXPENSES IN OUR FINANCIAL STATEMENTS, UM, AND WHAT THE COUNTY GAVE US, WE HAVE, THE TAXPAYERS HAVE ACTUALLY PAID AN AVERAGE OF 69% OF ALL THE LIBRARY'S ACTUAL EXPENSES THAT ARE REPORTED IN THOSE AUDITS. AND WE'VE PROVIDED YOU, WE CHART A THAT SHOWS THOSE NUMBERS. THE LIBRARY'S CURRENT BUDGET OF 1,000,024 AMOUNTS TO ONLY 1.05% OF THE COUNTY'S 2025 GENERAL FUND OF 97,350,000, WHICH AMOUNTS TO 1 CENT ON THE DOLLAR. THE LIBRARY IS ACCOUNTABLE TO THE TAXPAYERS AND ALL BUDGETS, DOCUMENTS, FINANCIAL REPORTS, TAX FILINGS, POLICIES, MEETINGS AND ACTIVITIES ARE READILY AVAILABLE ON THE WEBSITE. AS OUTLINED IN THE CURRENT MOA, THE LIBRARY REPORTS TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TWICE A YEAR, PROVIDING SIX MONTH PERFORMANCE MEASURES. WE WOULD BE INTERESTED IN FINDING OUT IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER PERFORMANCE MEASURES THE COUNTY WOULD LIKE TO SEE REPORTED TO FEEL BETTER INFORMED ABOUT THE COUNTY'S INVESTMENT AS OUTLINED IN THE BYLAWS OF THE ORGANIZATION, THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES CONSISTS OF NINE TO 15 TAX PAYING CITIZENS. SO AGAIN, WE DIFFER THERE BECAUSE EVERYONE WHO SITS ON THE BOARD IS A TAX PAYING REPRESENTATIVE OF THIS COUNTY. THEY BRING A CROSS SECTION OF EXPERTISE IN THE VARIOUS NEEDS OF THE LIBRARY, AND THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF TRUSTEE VOLUNTEER THEIR HOURS OF SERVICE FOR THE LOVE OF THE LIBRARY AND THE COMMUNITY. IN ADDITION, AS STATED IN THE BYLAWS, ONE REPRESENTATIVE FROM WARREN COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAS ALWAYS BEEN A VOTING PARTICIPANT REPRESENTING THE COUNTY'S INTEREST. THAT REPRESENTATIVE NOW SITS ON THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE AS WELL UPON RESEARCH. OTHER COUNCILS AND COMMITTEES WITHIN THE COUNTY HAVE ONLY ONE REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MAINTAINING INDEPENDENCE WITH THE CIVILIAN BOARD ACROSS ALL VOTING DISTRICTS, EMPHASIZES COMMUNITY DRIVEN DECISIONS TO ADDRESS LOCAL NEEDS AND INTERESTS AND ALIGNS THE LIBRARY'S NOT-FOR-PROFIT STATUS WITH THE IRS REQUIREMENTS FOR CHARITABLE STATUS. OVER TO YOU, IS THERE ANY OTHER, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION, UH, AMONGST ANY OF YOUR TRUSTEES? WE'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED IT AMONG THE TRUSTEES, AS I SAID, AND WE HAVE A UNIFIED VOICE ON OUR RESPONSES TO YOUR QUESTIONS. OKAY. SO IF I MAY. SURE. SO WHAT, UH, I'M LOOKING AT OUR TALKING POINTS THAT WAS SHARED AND WE HAD DISCUSSED ONE, UH, DISCUSSED HOW ONE TAXPAYER REPRESENTED ON THE BOARD OF 16 TRUSTEES OF A PRIVATE COMPANY IS CONSISTENT WITH TAXPAYER ACCOUNTABILITY FOR PUBLIC SERVICES. SO BASED ON THE STATEMENT THAT YOU JUST READ, YOU'RE SAYING BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES LIVE IN WARREN COUNTY AND THEREFORE THEY REPRESENT TAXPAYERS, IS, IS THAT WHAT I UNDERSTAND? DO THEY NOT, I'M JUST ASKING YOU, IS THAT YOUR POSITION? IS THAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID? I BELIEVE THAT WE'RE ALL TAX PAYING. OKAY. JUST WANTED CITIZENS OF WARREN COUNTY AND WE REPRESENT THE DISTRICTS. OKAY. I'M IN YOUR DISTRICT, IN THE WORK DISTRICT, BUT WE HAVE ALL FIVE DISTRICTS REPRESENTED AND ARE, AS A CIVILIAN BOARD, WE'RE ABLE TO KNOW OUR NEIGHBORS [00:15:01] AND REPRESENT THE PLACES THAT WE LIVE. OKAY. SO THEREFORE, REPRESENTING THE ACCOUNTABILITY OF TAXPAYER CONTRIBUTIONS, YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU'VE ALREADY, THERE'S NO DISCUSSION TO GO ANY FURTHER WITH THAT. IT MEETS OUR BYLAWS. I BELIEVE WE HAD THAT DISCUSSION, IF YOU REMEMBER LAST YEAR WHEN YOU WERE PRESENT AT OUR MEETINGS, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY. AND THERE'S SOME BOARD MEMBERS HERE THAT WE'RE NOT PART OF THOSE MEETINGS. SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOOD THAT WE CAN JUST ADDRESS WHAT WE'RE HERE TODAY. OKAY. SO, UM, SO THE ONLY POINT I WANNA JUST ADD TO MY COLLEAGUES, YOU KNOW, IS THAT I UNDERSTAND YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS. MM-HMM. , I'M NOT ARGUING WITH THAT. HOWEVER, WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTING THE, UM, THE BOARD OF, UH, THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES, THERE IS A PROCESS, AND I KNOW FROM, UM, THAT WE, WITH OUR NEW M-O-M-O-A THAT WE HAD, UH, AGREED TO, THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS CAN RECOMMEND PEOPLE TO BE SELECTED FOR THE BOARD OF, UH, TRUSTEES. THAT'S CORRECT. MM-HMM. . SO THERE WAS, THERE WAS THAT NEGOTIATION, YOU KNOW, THAT WE, THAT WE, UM, AGREED ON. YES. BUT THE ONE THING THAT I WANNA ADDRESS THOUGH IS THAT THERE'S NO ONE ON THE BOARD OF SUPERVISOR OR THE BOARD OF SUPERVISOR TRUSTEE THAT IS PART OF THE SELECTION PROCESS. WE ONLY, WE ONLY PROVIDE THE NAME AND THEN WE'RE NO, WE'RE NOT PART OF THAT INTERVIEW PROCESS. I, I THOUGHT AS THEIR BOARD, AS THE BOARD REPRESENTATIVE THAT YOU DID TELL ME THAT I COULD BE A PART OF THAT, THAT PROCESS. WELL, THAT'S ANY BOARD MEMBER, ANY BOARD MEMBER CAN ATTEND ANY BOARD MEETING. YOU COULD BUT NOT HAVE A VOTE INTO WHO THEY'RE SELECTING. NOW, IF THAT HAS CHANGE, IF THAT HAS CHANGED, I'D LIKE TO SEE YOUR POLICY THAT MADE THAT CHANGE. I THINK THAT WAS PART OF THE AGREEMENT THAT THEY HAD. THE AGREEMENT WAS ONLY THAT WE WOULD RECOMMEND SOMEONE FOR THEM TO CONSIDER THROUGH THE INTERVIEW PROCESS. YEAH. NOT BEING ON THE SELECTION COMMITTEE ITSELF TO GO THROUGH THE INTERVIEWS OF EVERYBODY. AND NOW IF THAT HAS CHANGED, THEN I'D LIKE TO SEE THE POLICY WHERE THAT'S DOCUMENTED, THAT THAT'S CHANGED. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THE REPRESENTATIVE IS A VOTING MEMBER OF THE BOARD, SO THAT WHEN CANDIDATES ARE PRESENTED, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON THOSE CANDIDATES. OKAY. VERY GOOD. I'D LIKE TO SEE THE POLICY THAT STATES THAT IT'S LISTED. IT'S ON THE WEBSITE, NOT IN YOUR BYLAWS. NO. THAT THAT'S NOT IN THE BYLAWS. THE POLICY FOR SELECTING NEW BOARD MEMBERS IS, IS ON THE WEBSITE. OKAY. SO THE, SO IF I GO ON THE WEBSITE MM-HMM. LOOK AT THE POLICY FOR THE SELECTION OF YEAH. OF, UM, TRUSTEES. AND WE'RE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU THAT. WE'RE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU THAT. IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU'D WANT. WE CAN NO, I CAN, YOU KNOW, EMAIL IT TO YOU. YOU DON'T HAVE TO. I COULD LOOK IT UP. I JUST WANTED TO SEE THE LANGUAGE THAT SAYS THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISOR, REPRESENTATIVE ON THE BOARD OF TRUSTEE HAS A VOTE IN SELECTING BOARD MEMBERS. I WANT, THAT'S WHAT I WANNA SEE. AND NO, I WAS TOLD THAT WHEN I WENT ON, I, I ASKED SPECIFICALLY WHAT DID, WHAT AM I ALLOWED TO VOTE FOR AND WHAT NOT, AND THEY TOLD ME EVERYTHING. WELL, THAT'S GREAT. I JUST WANNA SEE IT IN A POLICY. THAT'S ALL. THAT'S ACTUALLY IN THE BYLAW THAT THE REPRESENTATIVE IS A VOTING MEMBER. OKAY. I JUST WANNA SEE WHERE IT'S WRITTEN THAT WHEN YOU GO THROUGH YOUR NEXT, MY LAWS ARE ON YOUR WEBSITE AS WELL, OF APPOINTING BOARD OF TRUSTEES, THAT WHOEVER'S REPRESENTING THE BOARD OF SUPERVISOR ON, ON WHO'S REPRESENTING THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IS PART OF THE INTERVIEW PROCESS AND THE SELECTION PROCESS OF APPOINTING PEOPLE TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVI, UH, TO YOUR TRUSTEE. THAT'S, THEY, THEY MAY BE IF THEY SO WISH, BUT AGAIN, I WANNA SEE THAT IN WRITING. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. WELL, I THINK I WA I NEED TO TO POINT OUT THAT THE FACT THAT YOUR TR ALL THE TRUSTEES OF THE LIBRARY LIVE IN WARREN COUNTY AND SAYING THAT THEREFORE THEIR REPRESENTATIVES OF WARREN COUNTY IS A, AN INTERESTING INTERPRETATION OF, OF THE SITUATION. THEY'RE NOT ELECTED TO PRO PRESIDE OVER THE BUDGET OF THE COUNTY. THAT'S THE KIND OF REPRESENTATION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. TAXPAYER REPRESENTATION IS WHAT'S INTENDED BY THIS. WE ARE REPRESENTING THE TAXPAYERS AS ELECTED FIDUCIARIES FOR ALL OF THE BUDGETARY CONCERNS BEING FROM THE COUNTY AS A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE LIBRARY DOESN'T MAKE THOSE TRUSTEES REPRESENTATIVES OF THE COUNTY IN, IN MY OPINION. SO, UM, I, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT TOPIC. UM, SO IF, UH, IF THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES, UH, DO FUNCTION IN A WAY AS REPRESENTATIVES OF A TAXPAYER, UM, TWO PART QUESTION. ONE IS, UM, [00:20:01] IS THERE, UH, SORT OF A, A WAY FOR A TAXPAYER TO FIND OUT WHO THEIR TRUSTEE IS OR WHO, WHO SHOULD THEY GO TALK TO? AND, AND HOW CAN THEY GET THEIR CONTACT INFORMATION IF THEY HAVE A CONCERN? AND THEN SECONDLY, IF, IF THE TAXPAYERS, UH, SAY AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF TAXPAYERS ARE, ARE FED UP WITH A PARTICULAR TRUSTEE, IS THERE ANY AVENUE OF RECOURSE? UH, I MEAN, LIKE, YOU KNOW, TO PUSH FOR A REPLACEMENT TO THAT TRUST TRUSTEE. THE WAY, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF US COULD GET UN UNSEATED IN AN, AN ELECTION IF, IF WE WERE DI OF DISAPPOINTMENT TO THE TAXPAYERS. FRANKLY, THAT'S NEVER HAPPENED. , WE HAVE OUR PULSE ON THE COMMUNITY. WE TALK TO PEOPLE EVERY DAY. UM, MANY OF THE, MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM ARE VOLUNTEERS AND ARE OUT ON THE FLOOR AND TALKING TO, TO THE PEOPLE AND TALKING TO THEIR NEIGHBORS. AND, UM, THAT'S JUST NEVER COME UP. UM, MOST OF THE COMMUNITY HERE RECOGNIZES THE LIBRARY AS AN EXCELLENT INSTITUTION AND THE HUB OF OUR COMMUNITY. AND THEY, THERE HAVE NO BEEN NO COMPLAINTS IN THAT REGARD. OKAY. THANK YOU. MM-HMM? . YEAH. YEAH. THAT'S IS IT? YES. MM-HMM. ALL THE, ALL THE CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE TRUSTEES IS ON THE WEBSITE AS WELL. THANK YOU. SO, JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, SO IF THERE IS A CONSTITUENT THAT HAS AN ISSUE OF SOMETHING WITH THE LIBRARY, THEN THEY GO TO THE WEBSITE AND LOOK FOR THE TRUSTEE THAT REPRESENTS THEIR DISTRICT TO, TO EXPLAIN THEIR CONCERN OR EVEN THEIR, UM, COMPLIMENT, IF YOU WILL. YEAH. IF THEY'RE NOT SATISFIED, THEN THEY GO TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS REPRESENTATIVE TO VOICE THEIR, IF THEY HAVE A CONCERN, IT'S JUST NEVER COME UP. I MEAN, WELL, THERE ISN'T A POLICY IN PLACE 'CAUSE IT JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN. AND THEN, AND USUALLY COMPLAINTS GO FIRST TO, TO THE, UM, LIBRARY DIRECTOR. YEAH. I, I JUST, I JUST WANNA JUST SET UP UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS. YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THIS? NO, I DON'T, I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS. . I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I'M SAYING, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IF SOMEONE, IF SOMEONE, SOMEONE COMES TO ME AND, AND WE'RE VERY NICE. YOU DON'T, I'M JUST SAYING, I, I'M BEING NICE IS, IS WONDERFUL. AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN YOUR AWARD IF YOU WEREN'T VERY NICE. RIGHT. SO I'M JUST SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW. YEAH. JUST, IT'S A VERY PROFESSIONAL BOARD AND THEY WORK VERY HARD TO FOLLOW ALL THE RULES AND LETTERS OF THE LAW AND THE BYLAWS. AND HONESTLY, THIS HAS JUST NEVER COME UP ISSUE THAT MADE ONE DAY COME UP. SO I'M JUST WANTING TO UNDERSTAND. YEAH. AGAIN, IF COME UP, BUT THE CONTACT INFORMATION IS THERE AND IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO, TO, IF THEY TALK TO US, THEY'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO. AND IF IF THEY'RE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE RESPONSE, THEY CAN COME TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS REPRESENTATIVE. IS THAT CORRECT? IT'S TRUE. TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE BACK TO THEY CAN DO BOARD OF TRUSTEES. THEY CAN DO THAT AT ANY POINT ANYWAY. I'M JUST SAYING IS THAT THE PROCESS? IN EVENT THERE'S SOMETHING WE DON'T HAVE A PROCESS FOR THAT IT'S NEVER COME UP. OKAY. WELL THAT'S GOOD. AND THEN MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO DISCUSS OFF OFFLINE, . WELL, I THINK THE ROOT, THE, THE ROOT ISSUE THAT WAS, THAT EVERYONE'S TRYING TO GET AROUND IS THE, THE ACCOUNTABILITY OF AN ELECTED OFFICIAL IS DIRECT. I WON'T BE ELECTED NEXT TIME IF THE CONSTITUENTS DON'T WANT ME TO BE HERE. CORRECT. THAT'S NOT THE CASE WITH YOUR TRUSTEES. YOU CHOOSE YOUR TRUSTEES. WE HAVE A TERM AS WELL AS YOU DO THOUGH. THAT'S OKAY. BUT THERE'S, IT'S NOT THE SAME. I THINK THAT I'M ASSERTING THAT. OKAY. I THINK THE POINT THAT, UH, THAT, UH, MR. JAMESON OR DR. JAMESON IS MAKING IS THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU APPOINT SOMEBODY ON YOUR, YOUR BOARD, IT'S, IT'S AN UNDERLYING EXPECTATION THAT THEY ARE GONNA MAKE THE, THE, THE RECOMMENDATIONS, THE DECISIONS THAT ARE IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE LIBRARY. CORRECT. AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE THERE FOR. YEAH. BUT YET, UH, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE SOMEBODY WHO IS, IS, UH, YOU KNOW, COMES WHO IS, HAS A DIRECT AFFILIATION WITH THE COUNTY AND THEY SAY LIKE, UH, YOU KNOW, MENTION ABOUT, UH, UH, BEING, UH, APPOINTED, UH, UH, SOMEBODY WHO'S, WHO'S BEEN RECOMMENDED, UH, AND APPOINTED BY THE COUNTY, THEN THEY HAVE MORE OF A, A FIDUCIARY, UH, RESPONSIBILITY AND AN UNDERSTANDING THAT WHEN THEY MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS OR DECISIONS OR YOU KNOW, THE, THE, UH, THAT IT'S GONNA BE BASED ON WHAT IS BEST FOR THE COUNTY. AND I CAN TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, THE SIT SITTING UP HERE AND MAKING, UM, DECISIONS THAT END UP RAISING TAXES IS NOT A COMFORTABLE POSITION TO BE IN. I CAN RESPECT THAT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T LIKE TAXES RAISED, UH, AND I KNOW THAT MY NEIGHBORS [00:25:01] DON'T, DON'T LIKE TAXES RAISED. SO, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE WHOLE FOCUS ON THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, OF THE, IT'S THE, IT'S THE, THE EMPHASIS OF TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MAKE THE BEST DECISIONS FIDUCIARY, UH, THAT WILL BALANCE THAT FOR THE, FOR BOTH THE COUNTY AND THE LIBRARY. AND I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT, UH, DR. JAMESON AND, UH, MS. COOK ARE GETTING TO. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I CAN, I CAN GO OUT AND BUY A, UH, CADILLAC WITH ALL THE BELLS AND WHISTLES AND IT'LL BE THE GREATEST CAR IN, IN THE WORLD. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, IF MY POCKETBOOK, UH, DOESN'T SUPPORT THAT, WELL, I'M JUST GONNA HAVE TO SETTLE FOR THAT VOLKSWAGEN OVER THERE. SO, AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE THE POINT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE ON THIS AS FAR AS THE, UH, YOU KNOW, THE FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITIES. AND OVER HERE, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNANCE VERSUS THE FUNDING. 'CAUSE THAT FUNDING IS COMING FROM THE TAXPAYERS IN THIS COUNTY. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS, IS, UH, YOU KNOW, SOME TYPE OF, OF ACCOUNTABILITY, DIRECT ACCOUNTABILITY. BECAUSE WHEN WE GO AND TELL FOLKS THAT WE'RE SPENDING A MILLION DOLLARS AT THE LIBRARY, I, I APPRECIATE ALL THE WONDERFUL THINGS THAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING OF THE, UM, UM, AND, AND WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO, TO, TO STATE THAT. WELL, WE TOOK A LOOK AT THIS AND THERE'S A GOOD BALANCE THERE. SO THAT, THAT'S THE POINT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE. WE'RE NOT TRYING TO BEAT YOU ALL UP OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. THE, UM, ONE ASSUMPTION YOU'RE MAKING IS THAT THE TRUSTEES AREN'T ALSO FISCALLY LOOKING AT THE BUDGET OF THE LIBRARY WITH A TAX, WITH THE MOST COST SAVING IN MIND. I'M NOT MAKING THAT ASSUMPTION. I'M JUST SAYING THAT IT IS, IT'S INNATE. YEAH. BUT WE ARE TAXPAYERS AND, AND HAVE THE SAME VIEW OF IT THAT YOU DO. NOBODY WANTS THEIR TAXES RAISED. YEAH, NO, YOU'RE, YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THAT. SO ESPECIALLY MY WIFE, AND WE'RE, WE'RE PARTNERS IN THIS. SO WE, THE REASON WE HAVE THE COUNTY REPRESENTATIVE ON THE BOARD IS TO REPRESENT THE COUNTY'S INTERESTS. MM-HMM. . AND THERE'S ALWAYS A SECTION AT EVERY MEETING FOR THE COUNTY REPRESENTATIVE TO SAY, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE COUNTY AND WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE AND HOW CAN WE HELP? AND WE'RE IN THIS TOGETHER, SO WE WANNA WORK AS PARTNERS. OKAY. IF I, I COULD SAY A COUPLE THINGS. ONE OF 'EM IS THAT THE FACT THAT ONLY 1.05% OF THE BUDGET OF THE COUNTY BUDGET IS BEING SPENT ON THE LIBRARIES IS, IS NON SECONDARY. NOT, NOT, 'CAUSE IT'S A SMALL PERCENTAGE, DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE'RE, WE DON'T NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO IT. ALRIGHT. SO I DON'T, I DON'T, I DON'T THAT, THE THING IS, I DON'T WANT, I REALLY DON'T WANNA BELIEVE OF THIS, BUT I DO HEAR RESISTANCE TO, UM, YOU SAY WE'RE NOT A COMPANY, WE'RE A NONPROFIT. IT'S, WE'RE AN INCORPORATION. SO, AND YOU FILE TAXES. YOU, YOU FILE TAXES. I DO NOT FILE TAXES. WELL, YOU FILE IRS RETURNS AS, AS NINE NINETY'S FOR A NONPROFIT. RIGHT. IT'S A, IT'S A CHARITABLE ORGANIZATION. IT'S A CORPORATION. IT'S SAMUEL'S LIBRARY INCORPORATED. WE HAD TO INCORPORATE IT INTO, IN ORDER TO GET OUR RIGHT NON-PROFIT STATUS WITH THE IS THAT'S RIGHT. BUT IT IS NOT A FOR-PROFIT COMPANY. I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS FOR-PROFIT. OKAY. THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. UM, THE, THE, THE OTHER THING IS, I THINK IT'S, IT'S NECESSARY TO POINT OUT NONPROFIT DOESN'T IN EQUAL EFFICIENT, I MEAN, NOT THE, THE, WHAT THIS PICTURE REALLY SHOWS IS A, A HIGH LEVEL OF INTEREST IN ACCELERATING FUNDING FOR A LIBRARY FOR AN INSTITUTION OVER TIME. THE THE, YOU CAN SAY, AND YOU COULD BE RIGHT, THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE FIDUCIARY CONCERNS ON THE, YOU KNOW, ALL THE TRUSTEES OR TAXPAYERS, AND THEY HAVE, THEY, THEY DON'T LIKE PAYING TAXES EITHER AND SO FORTH. ULTIMATELY, THEY'RE THERE ON THE BOARD OF THE LIBRARY TO PROMOTE THE LIBRARY'S GROWTH, THE LIBRARY'S HEALTH AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. SO IT'S NOT THE, IT CAN'T ON BEHALF OF THE COUNTY. ALL I'M SAYING IS IT'S NOT EQUIVALENT THAT THE TRUSTEES ARE THE FIDUCIARIES IN THE SAME WAY THAT THE, THAT SUPERVISORS ARE FIDUCIARIES. THAT'S IT. WE'RE ELECTED BY THE TAXPAYER. THAT'S ALL, THAT'S SORT OF THE LAST POINT I HAVE ON THAT. UH, I HAVE TO SAY IT'S A, IT'S A, THE, THE REASON FOR INVITING THE TRUSTEES TO COME BEFORE US WAS TO HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH THE TRUSTEES. AND THIS SEEMS A BIT STILTED WHEN ALL THE, THE, THE ANSWERS AND DISCUSSIONS COMING FROM ONE PERSON, MAYBE THROUGHOUT THIS OTHER PEOPLE WOULD BE FREE TO SPEAK, INCLUDING THOSE WHO AREN'T ON THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE AS TO WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS. THAT WOULD BE GOOD. WOULD YOU LIKE THEM TO DO LIKE A SHOW OF HANDS OR SOMETHING? I MEAN, I, I THINK WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO WAS TO EXPEDITE TIME BY [00:30:01] THE DISCUSSION FORMAT IS, IS IT'S OPEN. OKAY. ANYBODY CAN PUT THEIR MICROPHONE ON AND SAY WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT SOMETHING. WE DON'T NEED TO HAVE A SHOW OF HANDS OR VOTES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SEMI INFORMAL OR, OR I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE DID THIS. OKAY. WELL THEN I'M JUST ENCOURAGING YOU. I WELCOME YOU. YEAH. I WOULD SAY THIS, WE DO HAVE PUBLIC MEETINGS. EVERYTHING'S FOIBLE. BUT IF SOMEBODY HAS A PROBLEM AND THEY CAN'T REACH ONE OF US, THEY CAN SPEAK AT OUR MEETINGS. THEY ARE OPEN TO PUBLIC, THEY ARE ANNOUNCED AND THE NOTES ARE AVAILABLE AS WELL. SO IT'S, IT'S NOT LIKE THEY TALK TO US AND THEN THEY HAVE TO GET THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. THEY HAVE OTHER ACTIONS THAT THEY CAN TAKE ALONG THE WAY. SO WE DON'T, WE DON'T SPELL IT OUT 'CAUSE WE NEVER HAD THAT ISSUE. BUT THEY'RE, BUT THE PUBLIC IS INVOLVED IF THEY CHOOSE TO BE, THE MEETINGS ARE OPEN TO EVERYBODY TO COME IN. YEAH. I, I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IF I'M WRONG, IT'S ONLY UP TO THREE PEOPLE THAT CAN SPEAK. YEAH. U USUALLY IF, IF WE'VE, WE'VE GOT A, AN ISSUE WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE, UH, THEN YOU, YOU WAIVE THAT REQUIREMENT. 'CAUSE LIKE, I BELIEVE IT'S ONLY THREE PEOPLE AND THEN THAT'S IT. AND THEN I THINK IT'S THREE MINUTES. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TIME WAS, BUT NOW WE, WE CAN SCHEDULE THEM AS A SPECIAL ITEM PROBABLY ON THEIR AGENDA. MM-HMM. . SO IF THEY SPECIFICALLY WANT TO SPEAK ON A SPECIFIC TOPIC. 'CAUSE THE, THE PUBLIC IS GENERALLY LIKE PEOPLE WE DIDN'T EXPECT. MM-HMM. . IF WE, IF WE KNOW TO EXPECT SOMEBODY AND WE HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT WE KNOW ARE COMING IN, WE CAN MAKE AN AGENDA. DON'T WAVE AT REQUIREMENT. YEAH. OKAY. WELL THE FIRST ONE ONLY TOOK 30 MINUTES, 35 MINUTES. SO HOPEFULLY WE'LL MOVE THESE ALONG. UM, NEXT ITEM OF INTEREST IS THE PURPOSE AND SOURCE OF THE SAMUELS INVESTMENT FUND. UH, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, I THINK WELL KNOWN, BUT MAYBE NOT WELL KNOWN, BUT IT'S WELL KNOWN TO ME THAT SAMUELS HAS AN INVESTMENT FUND OF APPROXIMATELY A MILLION DOLLARS. UH, I JUST LIKE TO DISCUSS THE SOURCE AND THE PURPOSE OF THIS MONEY AND WHY IT IS THAT SAMUELS RESISTS ITS USE TO SUPPORT FINANCIAL NEEDS AS AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR. WE'RE GONNA LET SOMEONE ELSE TALK. YEAH. I'LL TAKE THIS ONE. . OKAY. UM, AND SO JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, WE DID RESTRUCTURE THE NAMING OF OUR FUNDS. 'CAUSE I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF CONFUSION ABOUT THE INVESTMENT FUND. IT IS NOT, IT IS, NO, IT IS NOT AN INVESTMENT FUND. IT IS AN ENDOWMENT FUND. I THINK WE BROUGHT IT TO YOUR ATTENTION A WHILE AGO THIS YEAR. SO, UM, IT'S, WE HAVE AN ENDOWMENT FUND, UM, AND IT'S ON OUR WEBSITE. CLEARLY, YOU KNOW, STATE ITS PURPOSE. AN ENDOWMENT FUND ARE BUILT OVER TIME THROUGH DONATIONS, GRANTS, AND BEQUESTS TO SUPPORT THE LIBRARY'S LONG TERM STABILITY. THESE FUNDS ARE INVESTED IN THE RETURNS, INTEREST AND DIVIDENDS PROVIDE A STEADY, PREDICTABLE INCOME THAT CAN BE USED TO SUPPORT SPECIFIC PROGRAMS, EXPAND RESOURCES, OR ENSURE FINANCIAL SUSTAINABILITY, ESPECIALLY DURING ECONOMIC DOWNTURNS. DONATIONS MADE TO THE ENDOWMENT FUND BY TAX PURPOSES, OR SORRY FOR TAXPAYER BY TAXPAYERS FOR REASONS ABOVE AND SUBSEQUENTLY USED FOR OPERATING EXPENSES, COULD BE CONSTRUED AS DOUBLE TAXATION. DONATIONS OFTEN COME WITH RESTRICTIONS SET BY DONORS. AND HONORING DONOR INTENT IS ESSENTIAL TO MAINTAINING TRUST WITH FUTURE BENEFACTORS. AS OUTLINED IN THE LIBRARY OF VIRGINIA STATE GUIDELINES. PAGE 16, A LIBRARY'S OWN ENDOWMENT FOUNDATION OR TRUST FUND CAN BE ESTABLISHED WITH THE INTEREST USED TO SUPPLEMENT THE TAX BASE BUDGET OR TO FINANCE A SPECIAL PROJECT. THE SAMUELS PUBLIC LIBRARY ENDOWMENT FUND IS COMPRISED OF 11 AREAS AND INCLUDING GIFTS AND BEQUESTS, BOTH CASH OR NON-CASH RESTRICTED OR UNRESTRICTED FOR THE FULL LIST OF ENDOWMENT FUND COMPOSITION. AND THE GUIDELINES REGARDING THE ANNUAL 3% DISTRIBUTION, SEE THE INVESTMENT POLICY EXHIBIT A, A ON SAMUEL SBY WEBSITE. FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS, THE LIBRARY HAS USED THE ANNUAL, USED THE ANNUAL 3% OF INTEREST OR DIVIDENDS TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE ON THE OPERATING BUDGET EXPENSES. S SAMUEL'S PUBLIC LIBRARY HAS BEEN FLAT FUNDED FOR OVER FIVE YEARS, DESPITE AN OVER 20% INFLATION RATE. IN THE TIME RESPONSIBLE FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT MEANS USING ENDOWMENT INCOME STRATEGICALLY WHILE PRESERVING THE PRINCIPAL. IT IS PART OF THE LIBRARY STRATEGIC PLAN TO GROW THE ENDOWMENT FUND. SO THE LIBRARY CAN CONTINUE TO PROVIDE THE TAXPAYERS WITH A HIGH STANDARD OF E OF EXCELLENCE. IT'S ADVANTAGEOUS TO THE COUNTY TO SEE THE, THE FUND GROW. SO THAT'S, IT'S NO LONGER, IT'S NOT AN INVESTMENT FUND, IT'S AN ENDOWMENT FUND. OKAY. UM, THERE'S SOME CONTEXT I'D LIKE TO ADD TO THIS AS WELL. UM, [00:35:01] I'M NOT SURE IF, IF HOW, HOW MUCH LONGEVITY OR HOW MUCH TIME, UH, THIS BOARD OR THE INDIVIDUALS ON THIS BOARD HAVE, HAVE BEEN IN OFFICE. BUT, UM, PART OF THE RESEARCH IN INVOLVED WITH THIS PROJECT WAS LOOKING BACK INTO PAST CONTRACTS AND AS, AS WE'VE RECENTLY BEEN, UH, GOING OVER THE LEASE AND, AND SAMUELS HAS SAID, WELL, CAN WE HAVE SOME, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU PAY FOR SOME MAINTENANCE? AND THE BOARD HAS SAID, WELL, THE LEASE SAYS THAT YOU'LL PAY FOR THE MAINTENANCE. IT, IT BECAME AN ISSUE. AND, UM, THE, THE FACT IS THAT ONE OF THE, THE, I'M GONNA RECITE A FEW FACTS. IN APPROXIMATELY 2006, THE NEW LIBRARY STARTED TO BE CONCEIVED. THE LIBRARY WAS, UH, BUILT FROM I THINK, UH, UH, 2007, EIGHT AND OH NINE, I BELIEVE OPENED IN 2009. UM, I THINK EVERYBODY, PROBABLY EVERYBODY ON ON YOUR BOARD IS FAMILIAR WITH THIS, THIS LEASE. UH, ONE OF THE FEATURES OF THE LEASE IS THAT LA SAMUELS IS, IS ALLOWED TO, IT HAS THE, THE, THE BENEFIT OF LEASING THAT NEW BUILDING FOR $1 A YEAR FOR 30 YEARS IN THAT SAME LEASE, UH, THE SAMUEL'S LIBRARY SAID, AND IS IN THAT LEASE THAT, THAT THE WARREN COUNTY WOULD BE ABLE TO USE THE VILLA AVENUE BUILDING THE OLD LIBRARY FOR FREE FOR 20 YEARS. IN 20 11, 2 AND A HALF YEARS INTO THAT 20 YEARS OF FREE USE OF VILLA AVENUE, THAT AGREEMENT WAS ABROGATED. THAT 2008 LEASE WAS ABROGATED. THE SUPERVISORS AT THAT TIME AGREED TO PAY SAMUELS OVER THE COURSE OF FIVE YEARS. $550,000. WHY? I I KNOW I'M NOT GONNA GET THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. OKAY. I'M NOT GONNA EXPECT THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. CERTAINLY DON'T EXPECT YOU TO HAVE THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. THAT SHOULD BE FREE, SHOULD HAVE BEEN FREE TO THE COUNTY FOR FOUR MORE YEARS FROM TODAY. ALRIGHT? THE FACT THAT, HOWEVER, THOUGH, IS THAT, THAT THE, WHEN THAT HAPPENED, THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT IN 2011, AND THAT AGREEMENT HAD TWO COMPONENTS. IT WAS LOAN FORGIVENESS TO SAMUELS OF 230 SOME THOUSAND DOLLARS AND PAYMENTS OF 300 SOME THOUSAND DOLLARS, WHICH TOTALED $550,000. THE BLUE BARS ARE REPRESENT TRANSFER PAYMENTS FROM, AT THE BEGINNING OF 2011 FROM WARREN COUNTY TO SAMUEL'S. SO THERE WAS A LOAN FORGIVENESS OF 231,000, AND THEN THERE WERE CASH PAYMENTS FOR, FOR FOUR YEARS OF A CERTAIN SIZE, LIKE 30 SOMETHING THOUSAND. AND THEN CASH PAYMENTS OF 50 SOMETHING THOUSAND IN FINAL PAYMENT. 2018. UH, THE ORANGE BARS ARE THE GROWTH OF THE FUND. UH, YOUR DOCUMENTS INDICATE YOUR LONG-TERM PERFORMANCE OF YOUR INVESTMENT FUND ENDOWMENT IS 6.4%. SO THAT'S THE NUMBER I USED HERE. SO THE, THE TRANSFER PAYMENTS FROM WARREN COUNTY TO SAMUELS FROM 2011 THROUGH 2018. AND THEN THE BASIS THE GREEN BARS ARE, THE BASIS COMPOUNDED IS $1 MILLION. IT'S $1,080,956. THAT'S A, THAT'S A MODEL. IT'S A FINANCIAL MODEL IS MODELING THE PRESENT VALUE OF THOSE CASH TRANSFERS. SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS IF WE UNWIND THAT AND GO BACKWARDS AND TAKE AWAY THAT COMPOUNDING IN THE LAST YEAR AND FOLLOW THOSE BARS BACK DOWN, THEN IF WARREN COUNTY HADN'T ABROGATED THAT AGREEMENT AND PAID THAT $550,000, YOUR ENDOWMENT WOULD HAVE ALMOST $0 IN IT. YOU DIDN'T MENTION IN YOUR, IN YOUR SOURCES COMMENT THAT WARREN COUNTY TRANSFERRED PAYMENTS TO SAMUELS WERE A COMPONENT OF THE ENDOWMENT FUND. OVER TIME, OVER TIME, MONEY COMES FROM VARIOUS SOURCES AND GOES OUT TO VARIOUS SOURCES THAT I UNDERSTAND THAT I, I'VE STUDIED THE, THE MODEL THAT YOU USE, HOW YOU BRING MONEY FROM THE ENDOWMENT INTO THE, INTO THE OPERATING, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN PERCENT PER YEAR, ALL THAT. UM, BUT THIS IS A, THIS IS A, UM, VERY THI THIS IS, IS WAS AN, AN UNBELIEVABLE FIDUCIARY FAILURE TO THOSE SUPERVISORS IN 2011 TO PAY CASH FOR SOMETHING THEY WERE ENTITLED TO USE FOR ANOTHER 17 AND A HALF YEARS. IF I, IF [00:40:01] I GET INTO A PERSONAL ARRANGEMENT WITH A FRIEND AND I SAY, YOU CAN USE MY HOUSE HERE. IT'S A BEAUTIFUL HOUSE. I JUST BUILT IT. YOU CAN USE IT FOR A DOLLAR A YEAR. AND HE OFFERS TO ME, WELL, YOU CAN USE MY HOUSE DOWN IN, IN THIS NICE PLACE ON A LAKE FOR, FOR FREE FOR 20 YEARS. AND AFTER I'M IN IT FOR TWO YEARS, I SAY, I THINK I'LL JUST PAY YOU $500,000 FOR IT INSTEAD OF HAVING IT FOR FREE FOR THE NEXT 17 AND A HALF YEARS. THAT'S, THAT'S FIDUCIARY MALFEASANCE, UH, THE COUNTY TRANSFERRED MONEY, WHICH IS NOW WORTH A MILLION DOLLARS AT 6.4% TO SAMUELS AND GOT NOTHING. IT, IT, IT DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD TO HAVE A TITLE TO A BUILDING. YOU WERE ABLE, SHOULD'VE HAD TO BEEN ABLE TO USE FREE FOR 20 YEARS. AND I SAY, I UNDERSTAND NOBODY ON THIS BOARD WAS A TRUSTEE AT THAT TIME. BUT, AND, AND THIS WAS A LEGAL DOCUMENT. I MEAN, I READ THE, THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IN 2011 WHEN THAT TRANSACTION HAPPENED. THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION. NOT ONE WORD SPOKEN AS TO WHY THEY WOULD PAY $550,000 FOR SOMETHING THEY WERE ENTITLED TO USE FOR FREE FOR 20 YEARS. BUT THE TRANSFERS WERE MADE TO SAMUELS. NONE OF YOU WERE ON THE BOARD THEN, BUT YOU TOOK THE MONEY AND IT'S LEGAL. I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT IT NOT BEING LEGAL, BUT I, BUT I'M, I AM I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU WANT US TO SAY. 'CAUSE THAT WAS A SUPERVISOR DECISION. UH, THAT'S RIGHT. BUT, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, HERE'S THE THINKING. SO WE OWN THE BUILDING AND THE, AND THE COUNTY BOUGHT THE BUILDING. SO THEREFORE THE MONEY BELONGS TO THE LIBRARY. 'CAUSE WE OWN THE BUILDING. IT'S NOT I KNOW WHAT'S YOUR LAW? IT'S YOUR MIND. IT'S NOT REALLY A TRANSFER WHEN OH, SALE'S A TRANSFER. IT WAS A SALE OUTRIGHT. NO, AND THE PAYMENTS WERE MADE PERIODICALLY OVER THOSE YEARS. YEAH. THE POINT, THE POINT I'M, THE POINT I'M MAKING IS THAT THE COUNTY BOUGHT SOMETHING AND GOT NO VALUE FOR IT. YEAH. THAT'S A SHAME. IT IS A SHAME. AND, AND SAMUEL'S TOOK THE MONEY. SO ARE YOU, ARE YOU SAYING IT WAS OUR BUILDING? YOU BOUGHT THE BUILDING YEAH. AND NOW YOU LOAN THE COMMUNITY CENTER. WELL, WHAT I'M IMPLYING IS THAT IF IN MY, MY PERSONAL THING OR MY, MY, I, I LOANED MY FRIEND MY, I GAVE MY, FROM MY HOUSE FOR A DOLLAR A YEAR. HE GAVE ME THIS FOR 20, BUT I TURNED AROUND AND SAID, I DECIDED I'M GONNA PAY YOU 500,000 FOR IT INSTEAD OF USING IT FOR FREE. HE YEAH. SHOULD STEP IN AND SAY, RICH, ARE YOU SURE? BECAUSE YOU CAN USE IT FREE FOR 20 YEARS. WHY DO YOU WANT TO PAY 500,000? RIGHT. SO ARE YOU SAYING YOU WANT OUR ENDOWMENT? NO, . I JUST, BUT I WHAT I, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I NO, I'M, I'M DEFINITELY SOUNDS I'M DEFINITELY THIS, I'M OPERATIONS, I'M BRINGING IT UP BECAUSE WHEN I, IF, IF I ASK A QUESTION, WHY ARE YOU SO RESISTANT TO TAPPING THIS MONEY TO SUPPORT YOUR OPERATIONS AS AN INDEPENDENT OPERATION, WE NEED THAT MONEY. WE NEED THE INTEREST FROM THAT MONEY. AND THAT'S THE THE BALANCE WE NEED. WE, WE COUNT ON THE INTEREST FROM FROM THAT. YEAH. MY, MY BOTTOM LINE POINT IS THAT TAXPAYERS MATERIALLY ARE, ARE ACTUALLY THE SOURCE OF ALL OF IT. I'M NOT SAYING IT'S THE TAXPAYER'S MONEY, BUT IF YOU UNWIND THOSE TRANSFER PAYMENTS, IT'S ZERO. I BELIEVE IT WAS RMA THAT DONATED THE PROPERTY. IT'S THAT IT'S THEORETICAL. SO, SEE, IIII HAVE A QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU. SO NOW DOES IT STATE IN YOUR BYLAWS OR IN YOUR, IN YOUR ANYWHERE THAT IT'S GONNA BE AT 3% THAT THAT'S WHAT YOU, YOU, UH, UH, YES. WE HAVE A POLICY THAT SAYS 3%. SO YOU, BECAUSE I KNOW RIGHT NOW THE MONEY MARKET FUNDS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE BASED ON THE, UH, UH, BASED ON BONDS. WELL, NOT ONLY ON BONDS, BUT, UH, SHOOT, BONDS ARE PAYING FIVE AND A HALF OR FOUR AND A HALF, ALMOST 5%. SO THAT MEANS THAT IF YOU HARVEST THAT 3%, YOU STILL GOT 2% BECAUSE IT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE A, UH, UM, A NON-PROFIT, A, UH, 5 0 1 C3. SO THEREFORE YOU'RE NOT PAYING ANY TAXES ON THAT. THAT MEANS THAT THAT'S, UH, IT'S GONNA BE A ONE AND A HALF TO 2% THAT'S STILL BUILDING IN THERE. ALTHOUGH YOU ARE USING THAT 3% IN A GOOD YEAR. YEAH, YEAH. NO, IT'S, UH, THERE HAVE BEEN YEARS WHERE IT WASN'T GOOD. WELL, BUT THE IDEA, THE IDEA IS TO HAVE A STEADY, AND WE HAVE A POLICY ON IT. NO, NO, I, I REALIZE THAT. YEAH. AND, AND I THINK 3% IS PROBABLY A, A SMART SPOT TO, TO PUT IT AT, BECAUSE ON BAD YEARS, IT'S, IT'LL PROBABLY DIP DOWN TO 3%. IT'S PART OF THE GUIDELINES IN THE LIBRARY STATE CODE FOR THE HANDBOOK, FOR THE, UM, FOR THE TRUSTEES. BUT, BUT THE POINT THAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS, IS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT, UH, THAT [00:45:01] YOU GOT THAT 3% AVAILABLE AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S STILL GROWING AT, UH, AT ANOTHER PERCENT AND A HALF IN GOOD YEARS. SO, AND WE WANT IT TO GROW. WE USED THAT 3% TO, TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE IN THE OPERATING BUDGET. OVER AND ABOVE THAT WE ARE NOT BEING FUNDED. SO THAT 3% GOES TOWARD COST. WELL, WELL, I HAVE A QUESTION ON THAT. I GOT A QUESTION ON THAT. YOU KNOW, BEING THE VIRGINIA LIBRARY ASSOCIATION, UH, LIBRARY OF THE YEAR MM-HMM. , UH, I'VE TAKEN A LOOK AT THE DONATIONS THAT YOU ALL GET OF, YOU KNOW, BEING A, BEING A, A, A, A GOOD LIBRARY LIKE THIS, WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO GET MORE DONATIONS OR WHAT BE BECAUSE WE WON AN AWARD? YEAH. WELL, OUR HOPE, OUR HOPE IS THAT, I MEAN, YOU ARE A GOOD LIBRARY. OUR HOPE IS THAT YOU MAXIMIZE THIS NO. WITH REALTORS, BUSINESSMEN, THE TOURISM BOARD, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN REACH HERE. THAT'S WHAT YOU GUYS ARE FOR. THAT'S WHAT YOU GUYS ARE FOR. THAT'S WHAT THE, THAT'S WHAT THE, THE BOARD IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, IS REACHING OUT AND GETTING, UH, GET, GETTING SOME, UH, UH, SOME DONATIONS, YOU KNOW, GETTING PEOPLE ON BOARD. WE DO, WE DO HAVE, WE DO HAVE FUNDRAISING ACTIVITIES AND FUNDRAISING EVENTS. SURE. WE, WE SEEK DONATIONS. I WOULD, I WOULD LE LEVERAGE THAT TO THE MAX TO GET THE MAX DONATIONS THAT YOU CAN. YOU'RE HIRED . I'M ALREADY HERE, YOU KNOW, I'M ALREADY ON THE BOARD. WELL, TO ADD WITH THAT, I KNOW THEY, THEY DO WORK TO GET GRANTS AS WELL. SO, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THEY'VE BEEN ACTIVELY LOOKING AT THAT. AND I, I THINK THEIR POINT IS, AND I DON'T MEAN TO SPEAK FOR YOU, BUT WE HEAR ALL THE TIME THAT WHEN THESE BIG COMPANIES, UH, LOOK AT A, AN AREA, ONE OF THE THINGS THEY LOOK AT ARE THE QUALITY OF THE SCHOOLS AND THE SOCIAL AMENITIES AND, UM, YOU KNOW, ENTERTAINMENT, AMENITIES AND ALL THAT. AND SO I'M SURE THAT THAT DOES GO A LONG WAY. UM, WHEN PEOPLE LOOK AT THAT AS ONE OF THE NICE THINGS OF WHAT DOES FRONT ROW AND WARREN COUNTY HAVE TO OFFER. WELL, I HOPE IT WOULD, AND I, AND I, MY HOPE IS AS Y'ALL LEVERAGE THIS IN THE FUTURE TO GET MAX DONATIONS, UM, UNFORTUNATELY, GONNA TAKE US FURTHER AWAY FROM THE TOPIC ON, ON THE AGENDA. BUT I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY SOMETHING THAT HAD BEEN STATED, I THINK BY, BY YOU, MICHELLE, UM, THAT, UH, THE LIBRARY HAD BEEN FLAT FUNDED FOR ROUGHLY FIVE YEARS. UM, YOU'RE, YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT INFLATION OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS HAS BEEN OVER 20%, AND THAT THE LIBRARY HAS NOT BEEN FUNDED AT PACE WITH INFLATION. BUT JUST TO CLARIFY, UM, FROM 2018 TO 2023 OR SO, UH, THE LIBRARY DID SEE, UH, OVERALL INCREASE OF ABOUT 5% IN FUNDING. UM, AND THEN IT HAS BEEN FLAT FUNDED FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS. UH, SO, UH, FOR THE LAST TWO BUDGET CYCLES, UH, IT'S BEEN AT, UM, 1,000,024, BUT BACK IN 2018, IT WAS AT 9 9 73 IN CHANGE. SO IT HAS GONE UP ABOUT 5%, UM, OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS OR SO. UM, AND THE COUNTY OPERATIONS GREW AT BASICALLY THE SAME PACE. UH, SO WHAT, WHAT HAPPENED OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS IS NOTHING ABOUT ME CAPPING THE LIBRARY. IT'S, IT'S BEEN ABOUT FISCAL DISCIPLINE COMING TO THE COUNTY AND LIVING WITHIN OUR MEANS OVERALL. UM, THE ONLY DEPARTMENT THAT REALLY GREW ABOVE THAT WAS IT, WHICH WE HAD TO CREATE AN IT DEPARTMENT. WE DIDN'T HAVE ONE, UH, BACK IN 2018. SO, UH, JUST TO CLARIFY THAT. SO THANK YOU. I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS, UM, REGARDING THE, UM, THE ENDOWMENT FUND. WE'LL LEARN HOW TO SAY ENDOWMENT. NOW. ANY EVENT, I'M LOOKING AT YOUR, UM, STATEMENT OF ACTIVITIES, YOUR AUDIT REPORT OF JUNE 30TH, 2023. AND IT SHOWS HERE THAT THE REVENUES AND OTHER SUPPORT COUNTING YOUR DONATIONS AND, YOU KNOW, INKIND CONTRIBUTIONS AND MISCELLANEOUS FEES FOR, YOU KNOW, COPY MACHINES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT ANYWAY, SO THE TOTAL REVENUES CAME TO $1.4 MILLION. WELL, I'M $1.5 MILLION JUST TO ROUND IT UP. AND THEN I LOOK AT THE EXPENSES. AND THE EXPENSES WERE 1.4. SO THERE WAS A POSITIVE DELTA REMAINING AT 50 5K, WHICH I ASSUME YOU JUST ROLL IT BACK INTO YOUR ENDOWMENT. FUND RESTRICTED. I, UM, YOU KNOW, SO THERE ARE RESTRICTED FUNDS. WELL, THE RESTRICTED FUNDS HERE IS, UH, LET ME SEE, [00:50:01] WITH, WITH DONOR RESTRICTIONS IS ONLY $10,000. AND I'M LOOKING AT THE COLUMN, IT SAYS, WITHOUT DONOR, THE ENDOWMENT FUND ALSO HAS RESTRICTED FUNDS SITTING IN IT. $50,000 IS THE DOCTOR ENDOWMENT, AND $5,000 WAS A GENERAL ENDOWMENT. AND WHEN THE NAME CHANGE WAS MADE, WE ALSO INSTRUCTED THE, UM, THE REPRESENTATIVE TO MOVE THAT INTO THE FULL . BUT THE HUMOR MONEY IS SEPARATE AND RESTRICTED. WELL, I'M JUST READING WHAT YOUR AUDIT REPORT SAYS. SO IF THAT MAY BE TRUE. I, I, I DIDN'T SEE IT IN THE AUDIT REPORT. OKAY. SO, BUT ANYWAY, MY QUESTION IS, OKAY, IT'S THAT YOU, YOU'VE, UM, I'VE HEARD YOU SAY THAT YOU USE THIS ENDOWMENT FUND TO OFFSET OPERATIONAL COSTS BECAUSE WE'RE F FUND, F FUND FUNDING FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS, BECAUSE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAD, UH, HAVE OTHER PRIORITIES. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, WE'RE TRYING TO BALANCE OUR THREE LEGGED STOOL IN OUR BUDGETS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO WHEN I SEE THAT AT THE END OF THE YEAR, EITHER WAS 50 5K LEFTOVER FROM YOUR COLLECTION OF REVENUES, AND OPERATIONALLY WE DONATE, WE, WE DONATED, WE CON, UM, CONTRIBUTED $1,000,024 OF TAX DOLLARS THAT WE COULD USE FOR PUBLIC SAFETY OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THINGS JUST WANNA THROW THAT OUT THERE WITH THE SALARIES, WHICH I UNDERSTAND THAT. I, UM, I'VE BEEN TOLD IN THE PAST, AND I MAY, I MIGHT BE INCORRECT NOW, AND YOU PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT A LOT OF THE CONTRIBUTIONS THAT WE, THAT THE TAXPAYERS GIVE TO SAMUELS INC. IS TO HELP PAY FOR SALARIES. SO WHEN I LOOK AT THE NUMBERS OF GOING BACK TO 2023, THE SALARIES, AND IT'S IN, IN THIS, I'M ASSUMING THAT THE SALARY NUMBER THAT I'M LOOKING AT IS TOTAL BURDEN COST WAS $704,000. SO THAT WAS A DELTA OF $319,000 OF CASH, OF, OF TAX DOLLARS THAT HAVE BEEN CONTRIBUTED TO THE OPERATIONS. SO WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS, YOU KNOW, IS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN THE FUTURE, WHERE DOES THE MILLION DOLLARS GO TO? BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, UH, WHEN I, UH, WHEN I REVIEW THE, YOUR, YOUR, UM, YOUR FINANCIAL REPORTS THAT YOU PUBLISH ALL THE TIME, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S COMMINGLED. I, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T SAY, OKAY, A MILLION DOLLARS PAID FOR THIS AND A MILLION DOLLARS PAID FOR THAT. AND IF I GO WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT IT'S FOR SALARIES, WELL, RIGHT HERE FOR YOUR AUDIT REPORT, THERE'S A DELTA $300,000. SO DID IT GO TO BOOKS? YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW WHERE, WHERE, YOU KNOW, WHERE DID IT GO? SO I'M JUST PUTTING IT OUT AS, UM, SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT MOVING FORWARD, I WOULD LIKE TO, TO SEE WHERE THE COUNTY, UH, WHERE THE TAXPAYER DOLLARS ARE BEING ALLOCATED TO IN THE OPERATIONS, IN THE OPERATIONS PART OF IT. SO, AND LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW, WHEN I LOOK AT THE REPORTS, IT'S HARD. IT'S ALL COMMINGLED. WHEN I LOOK AT YOUR, YOUR FINANCIAL REPORTS THAT YOU DO DURING THE YEAR, AND THEN WHEN I LOOK HERE, YOU KNOW, ON YOUR AUDIT REPORT, IT DOESN'T DO IT. I MEAN, IN FACT, THERE'S A PARAGRAPH SOMEPLACE SAYING THAT THE, THE, THE COUNTY FUNDS AND STATE FUNDS ARE NOT, ARE NOT, UH, ARE, ARE NOT RESTRICTED, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GRANTS. IN FACT, I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY, THE TERMINOLOGY THEY USE IN HERE THAT THEY'RE CONSIDERED AS GRANTS. SO YOU WANT SPECIFICALLY WHERE THE COUNTY MONEY GOES YEAH. INSTEAD OF JUST HERE'S ALL THE YEAH. EXPENDITURES. EXACTLY. YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THAT'S, BECAUSE THAT'S ACCOUNTABILITY OF THE TAX DOLLARS. OKAY. THAT'S WHERE I, AT LEAST, I'M ONLY SPEAKING FOR MYSELF. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW THAT IS, YOU KNOW, IS BEING, UM, ACCOUNTED FOR. DO YOU HAVE A TIMEFRAME YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT IN? WELL, THE REASON I ASK IS WE DO A, A FAIRLY LARGE REPORT FOR THE STATE OF VIRGINIA. UM, THAT TAKES ALL OF THE FUNDINGS AND STUFF. WE HAVE TO SEPARATE IT OUT AND ALL THE STATISTICAL DATA AND ALL THAT IT MM-HMM. IT JUST OPENED UP FOR US TO START ENTERING DATA LAST WEEK. WOULD IT, WOULD IT BE TOO MUCH TO ASK THAT THE, UM, NEXT UPDATE THAT, UH, NO, THAT WOULD BE DOABLE. THAT, THAT YOU AND THAT WOULD BE KIND OF TOWARDS THE END OF THE YEAR. I DON'T KNOW. PLEASE, PLEASE SEE YOU GUYS HERE ON THE BOARD IF I'M GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. IF YOU DON'T THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, NO, I THINK YOU'RE POINT IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION BECAUSE Y'ALL HAVE MENTIONED THAT YOU DO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF FUNDS THAT ARE, LEMME SEE, HOW'D YOU SAY IT? THAT [00:55:01] ARE RESTRICTED. SO, AND I GOT A QUESTION ON THAT. SO, AND YOU MENTIONED HIS NAME DR. IT WAS A $50,000 FUND. DR. DR. HUBER, DR. HUBER, I'M SORRY. HUB HUBER, DR. HUBER. OKAY. SO, SO $50,000, YOU DON'T TOUCH THAT, WHICH YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU JUST, YOU JUST HARVEST THAT THE 1500, IF IT'S 3%, YOU HARVEST THE 15, $1,500 THAT YOU GET OFF THAT. IS THAT 1500, IS THAT RESTRICTED? NO. OKAY. SO THEN, AND IF YOU LOOK AT OUR FUND DOCUMENT POLICY ONLINE, IT EXPLAINS WHAT INTERESTS CAN BE HARVESTED AND WHAT CAN'T. OKAY. AND IT'S ALL ABOUT DONOR, UM, REQUEST. SO IF DONOR COMES IN AND SAYS, I'M GONNA GIVE YOU THIS MONEY. CORRECT. AND ANYTHING, THIS MONEY AND ANYTHING THAT IS GENERATED BY THIS MONEY, EVERYTHING BECOMES, HAS TO, HAS TO BE USED IN THIS CERTAIN MANNER. THAT'S CORRECT. THAT WOULD BE LIKE THE AMPHITHEATER. IS THAT CORRECT? MM-HMM. DONATIONS YOU GET FOR THE AMPHITHEATER HAS TO BE EARMARKED ONLY FOR THAT. MM-HMM, . OKAY. ALRIGHT. I THINK THAT'S 30 K CLARIFY. I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. , UH, I'D LIKE TO JUST QUICKLY ADDRESS MR. JENKINS' QUESTION. WHY IS THE BEING BROUGHT UP NOW? ONLY SO THAT THERE CAN BE AWARENESS THAT THE, THE BALANCE OF THAT FUND EXISTS BECAUSE OF TRANSFER PAYMENTS THAT WARREN COUNTY TAXPAYERS MADE INTO SAMUELS. IF THOSE TRANSFERS HADN'T BEEN MADE, THAT ACCOUNT WOULDN'T HAVE THAT MONEY IN IT JUST WIND THAT BACKWARDS, SO. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. WE'D LIKE TO DISCUSS THE EXPECTATIONS OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SAMUELS AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. I'D LIKE TO DISCUSS THE CONTRACTING NATURE OF SAMUELS AS A PRIVATE COMPANY PROVIDING PUBLIC SERVICES UNDER CONTRACT ON BEHALF OF WARREN COUNTY. DISCUSS VIEWS CONCERNING ANY SPECIAL STATUS OR PRIVILEGES THAT SAMUELS IS ENTITLED TO IN THE BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP THAT WAS SHIELDED FROM A COMPETITIVE PROCUREMENT PROCESS. THIS IS ON RIGHT. ALRIGHT. THERE'S NOTHING SHIELDING SAMUEL'S PUBLIC LIBRARY, UH, THE LIBRARY ABIDES BY ALL VIRGINIA PROCUREMENT LAWS AS REQUIRED BY THEIR STATE AID TO LIBRARIES. GRANT FUNDED BY THE VIRGINIA GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESEARCH BY A JOINT AD HOC COMMITTEE WAS DONE IN ADVANCE OF THE 2017 MOA TO SEE IF THE COUNTY COULD SAVE MONEY BY TAKING OVER THE LIBRARY SERVICES, HAVING A THIRD PARTY OPERATE THE LIBRARY, OR KEEP THE LIBRARY AS A CHARITABLE ORGANIZATION IN ITS CURRENT STRUCTURE. TODAY, THE CURRENT OPERATING SYSTEM OF REPUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP SHOWED SIGNIFICANT SAVINGS COMPARED TO OPERATING AS A MUNICIPAL LIBRARY. WE HAVE UPDATED THAT RESEARCH WITH COMPARATIVE STATISTICS OF SAMUEL'S PUBLIC LIBRARY IN RELATION TO REGIONAL PEER LIBRARIES OF SIMILAR SIZE. AND WE DID PROVIDE A HANDOUT DEMONSTRATING THAT, UH, OUR CURRENT MOA STATES, THE LIBRARY AND COUNTY AGREE TO WORK TOGETHER TO IDENTIFY OPPORTUNITIES TO SHARE RESOURCES TO PROVIDE COST SAVINGS FOR THE LIBRARY WITHOUT REDUCTION IN THE COUNTY APPROPRIATION. WE WOULD WELCOME YOUR EXPERTISE ON ANY COST SAVING MEASURES THAT WE COULD INCORPORATE INTO OUR OPERATING BUDGET. CAN I ASK SOMETHING? SO THIS PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP THAT, THAT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED, COULD I LOOK AT THAT AS WARREN COUNTY AWARDING A GRANT TO SAMUELS INC. SO THE MONEY THAT, UH, WE CONTRIBUTE IS, OR THE PROCESS OF CONTRIBUTING OR TRANSFERRING THE TAX DOLLARS TO YOU COULD BE CONSIDERED AS A GRANT FROM THE WA FROM THE CO THE COUNTY. IS THAT KIND OF A, A TYPE OF A RELATIONSHIP IN YOUR MIND THAT DESCRIBES PUBLIC PRI PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP? WE ARE A PRIVATE ENTITY, BUT WE'RE CHARITABLE. OKAY. SO I I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING THE, THE EXACT NATURE OF THE QUESTION 'CAUSE IT'S MEANS SOMETHING ELSE. IT'S NOT SO MUCH A QUESTION AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT AND NOT GETTING THAT THE POINT ACROSS. UM, I LOOK AT THE CONTRIBUTIONS THAT THE WARRANT THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS APPROPRIATE IS IN TERMS OF A GRANT. WE'RE, [01:00:01] YOU KNOW, WE ARE, UM, CONTRIBUTING TO THIS NONPROFIT TO PROVIDE LIBRARY SERVICES TO THE COMMUNITY. SO I I I JUST WANNA JUST, UM, PUT THAT OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, AND MAYBE LATER ON HAVE A DISCUSSION OF THAT AND THAT MIGHT HELP US WITH THE ALLOCATIONS AND, YOU KNOW, ON ACCOUNTABILITY AND, AND TRANSPARENCY OF THE TAX DOLLARS. AND I INVITE YOU TO, YOU KNOW, TO CHIME IN ON THAT IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND OR, OR YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME OR, WELL, I THINK USUALLY ANYBODY AWARDING A GRANT DOESN'T SIT ON THE BOARD MAKING DECISIONS OVER HOW THAT GRANT CAN BE APPLIED. MM-HMM. , UM, YOU, YOU HAVE YOUR CONDITIONS MM-HMM. . BUT WE, WE AS A LIBRARY, WE MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON THAT MONEY. AND I WOULD HOPE THAT BASED ON THE TRANSPARENCY OF A REPORTING AND THAT WE'RE TALKING TO YOU, THAT YOU ARE CONFIDENT THAT YOUR, YOUR MONEY'S GOING SOMEWHERE THAT IT'S BEING PUT TO GOOD USE. IF IT'S NOT BEING PUT TO GOOD USE, WE NEED TO KNOW IMMEDIATELY WHAT IS YOUR CONCERN, WHAT'S, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE MONEY. YEAH. AND THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING IF WE CAN HAVE A, A NEW BUDGET REPORT LAYING OUT THE EXPENDITURES OF WHERE THE MILLION 24 GOES TO. BECAUSE RIGHT NOW YEAH, I'VE WRITTEN IT DOWN IN MY NOTES. THAT'S RIGHT NOW THAT'S, I LOOK AT THE DATA AND I HAVE NO CLUE WE CAN CLARIFY THAT, YOU KNOW, BUT YOU DO BRING UP A VERY GOOD POINT ABOUT THE GRANTS AND, YOU KNOW, REPRESENTATION ON THE BOARD. BUT I JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT THERE FOR FOOD, FOR THOUGHT AND, AND JUST TO UPDATE, UM, ON AN EARLIER MEETING ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN SPEAK AT A MEETING. UH, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A LIMITATION OF, OF FIVE PEOPLE. IS IT FIVE WITH THREE MINUTES EACH? SO I APOLOGIZE. I DIDN'T, I WASN'T AWARE OF THE, THE INFORMATION. I JUST, I KNEW THAT THERE WAS SOME LIMIT OF HOW MANY PEOPLE WHO CAN SPEAK, YOU KNOW? YEAH. LIKE HERE, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, WE, IT'S UNLIMITED, BUT WE GIVE YOU AN UM, WHAT, AN HOUR, RIGHT? AN HOUR AND THREE MINUTES TO, TO SPEAK. SO, SO, SO IS THAT FIRST COME, FIRST SERVE OR IS THAT ROCK, PAPER, SCISSORS, OR WHAT? I THINK THEY SIGN UP OR OR FIRST COME FIRST COME. ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS? NOPE. CAN I JUST MAKE A COMMENT? I FEEL LIKE THERE'S BEEN SOMETHING LOST IN THIS CONVERSATION THAT IS IGNORING THE SPIRIT AT WHICH THIS BOARD OF TRUSTEES WORKS TOGETHER FOR THE COMMUNITY. I DON'T SEE THE LIBRARY AND THE COUNTY AS TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES. I SEE THEM AS ONE AND THE SAME. I FEEL LIKE EVERYTHING WE DO FROM OUR PASSION FOR THE LIBRARY IS NOT ABOUT GUARDING BOOKS THAT ARE BUILDING THE BRICKS, BUT IT'S THE COMMUNITY. IT'S THE COMMUNITY THAT WE WORK FOR. THAT'S WHO WE CARE ABOUT. ALL OF THE CHILDREN, THE FAMILIES, THE ELDERLY, SOMETIMES THE HOMELESS. THE LIBRARY SUPPORTS THE COMMUNITY. IT REPRESENTS THE COMMUNITY. AND THAT'S WHO WE WORK FOR AS FIDUCIARIES. AND SO I FEEL LIKE IN THIS DISCUSSION, I'M STARTING TO FEEL LIKE WE'RE JUST HOLDING ONTO A BIG PILE OF MONEY, AND WE'RE NOT DOING THE RIGHT THING WITH THE MONEY. MY GOSH. WE'RE TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THIS COUNTY, THIS COMMUNITY. WE'RE PART OF THIS COMMUNITY. SO I JUST WANNA SHARE THAT'S HOW WE FEEL. AND IF I CAN ADD TO THAT THOUGH, HOWEVER, AT THE END OF EVERY FISCAL YEAR, THE COUNTY HAS TO PROVIDE A AUDIT REPORT TO THE STATE THAT WE HAVE TO SHOW ACCOUNTABILITY OF ALL. WE'RE ALL TAX DOLLARS. SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE. OKAY. WE WANT TRANSPARENCY, ACCOUNTABILITY, AND, AND, AND HAVE THE DISCUSSION OF UNDERSTANDING HOW WE CAN WORK TOGETHER WITH YOU. I AGREE. WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER. GO AHEAD. THE, THE INTERJECT SOMETHING ALONG. MELODY'S EARLIER COMMENTS. SHE REFERENCED PERFORMANCE MEASURES. WHEN WE MEET WITH YOU EVERY SIX MONTHS TO REVIEW HOW THE LIBRARY'S PERFORMING, AND WE GIVE YOU FACTS AND STATISTICS, HAVE THE NUMBERS, UH, THOSE ARE GENERALLY POSITIVE. THE TRENDS ARE IN INCREASING USAGE, INCREASING PATRONAGE. WE HAD THE BEST FUNDRAISING YEAR EVER LAST YEAR. BUT IF THERE ARE OTHER PERFORMANCE METRICS THAT YOU NEED TO SEE, LET US KNOW. WE, WE WANT TO WORK WITH YOU TO GIVE YOU THE INFORMATION YOU NEED TO FEEL CONFIDENT THAT YOUR INVESTMENT IN THE LIBRARY IS FOR THE BENEFIT OF PEOPLE IN. THANK YOU. I HAVE NO, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, THE, YOUR KPIS THAT YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH THOSE WHATSOEVER. I MEAN, YEAH. WE CAN ADD A LITTLE BIT MORE, YOU KNOW, FOR ACCOUNTABILITY, [01:05:02] YOU KNOW, BUT, WE'LL, I'LL THINK ABOUT THAT AND, AND SUBMIT IDEAS TO THE, TO MS COLORS. WHO SERVES ON YOUR, ON YOUR BOARD. SO YOU MENTIONED THAT LAST YEAR THAT Y'ALL HAD A, I, I GUESS A, COULD YOU CALL IT A BANNER YEAR FOR, FOR FUNDRAISING? WHAT? WHAT'D Y'ALL DO? ? I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TIME FOR THAT. I, OF THE, THE CHALLENGES THAT WE FACED LAST YEAR, OKAY. PEOPLE MADE DONATIONS FROM ALL ACROSS THE NATION. ALRIGHT. INTERNATIONALLY, TORONTO, SPAIN. WELL, I, I DON'T WANNA REPEAT IN RESPONSE TO, IN RESPONSE TO THE CHALLENGE, WELL, I DON'T WANNA REPEAT THAT, BUT MAYBE THERE'S SOME OTHER WAY THAT, YOU KNOW, WE COULD, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT, UH, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE COULD, WE COULD BOOST THAT FUNDRAISING. YEAH. IT WAS IN SUPPORT OF THE LIBRARY AND, AND, AND THE MISSION. SO, ALRIGHT. THAT'S, BUT THAT, THAT'S NOT ALL, I MEAN, YOU GUYS DID A LOT OF FUNCTIONS. WE DO A LOT OF FUNCTIONS. THAT'S GOOD. OUR TASTE FOR BOOKS. WE WELCOME YOU EVERY YEAR TO COME AND ENJOY THE BEST PARTY IN TOWN. AND, UM, WE, WE FUNDRAISE WHERE WE CAN WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, BEING A BURDEN ON THE TAXPAYERS. THEY DON'T WANNA HEAR FROM YOU, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED TIMES. BUT, UM, BUT THEY'RE VERY, IT'S A VERY GENEROUS COMMUNITY AND THERE'S A LOT OF LIBRARY READERS. THEY LOVE THE LIBRARY AND THEY'RE, THEY'VE GOT A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR, FOR THE, FOR THEIR, THEY LOVE THE LIBRARY. SO, UM, JUST CURIOUS ABOUT, UH, LOOKING AT YOUR GRANTS AND DONATIONS ON PAGE SIX OF YOUR SLIDE DECK. UM, IT, IT ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE FY 23 IS WITHIN THE NORMAL RANGE. UM, BUT THAT INCLUDES DONATIONS AND GRANTS TOGETHER, I THINK. UM, AND WOULD YOU, UH, TECHNICALLY BE CHARGE FY 23? PAGE SIX. YEAH. AND THE DECK THAT LOOKS LIKE THIS AND PAGE NUMBER SIX? YEAH. FY 23 IS, IS CONSISTENT WITH MANY PRIOR YEARS. THE ONLY OUTLIER THERE I SEE IS FY 22 IS LOW. I THINK TECHNICALLY LAST YEAR WOULD'VE BEEN FY 24. OH, RIGHT, OKAY. WE WERE IN THE PROCESS OF PUTTING IN THAT DATA FOR OUR, OUR STATE YEAH. SURVEY RIGHT NOW. OKAY. THAT'S OKAY. FY 24 IS, SO WHAT IS, SINCE IT'S NOT ON HERE, WHAT WAS THE TOTAL NUMBER IF YOU HAD DONATIONS AND GRANTS TOGETHER FOR FY 24? DO YOU KNOW? UH, I DON'T HAVE IT OFF HAND, BUT I CAN, I CAN GET IT TO YOU. OKAY. JUST CURIOUS. THAT INCLUDE THE GRANT, UH, THAT WOULD, OH, AND THE MELLON GRANT WAS 500. RIGHT? SO THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD PUT IT ORBITAL. BUT MAYBE EXCLUDING THAT, BECAUSE THAT ONE'S AN I I, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION, AND IT MAY BE RHETORICAL. WHY DOES SHENANDOAH HAVE FIVE LIBRARIES? FIVE TOWNS, SIR. OH, OKAY. I I WAS JUST CURIOUS. OKAY. SECOND ITEM HERE IS THE PHRASE ATTACK ON THE LIBRARY HAS BEEN USED FREQUENTLY IN THE PAST YEAR. DISCUSS WHETHER THE SAMUEL'S TRUSTEE TRUSTEES CONSIDER ANYTHING SHORT OF UNQUALIFIED AND UNQUESTIONED BOARD OF SUPERVISOR SUPPORT FOR ALL SAMUEL'S REQUESTS AS BEING INHERENTLY AGAINST SUPPORT OF THE PUBLIC LIBRARY SERVICES FOR WARREN COUNTY. WHAT'S THIS, WHAT'S THE HEADING ON THIS ONE? THERE YOU GO. OH, THIS IS SUB OH, A SUB-BULLET. OKAY. UM, SAMUEL'S LIBRARY TRUSTEES COMPLIES WITH ALL REPORTING REQUIREMENTS OF THE COUNTY TO BE THREATENED WITH DEFUNDING HAS FELT THREATENING TO THE LIBRARY AND TO THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE. IT WAS A DEPARTURE FROM PRIOR INTERACTIONS BETWEEN OUR BOARDS. SAMUEL LIBRARY HAS A LONG HISTORY OF WORKING AMICABLY WITH AND ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TO PROVIDE AN OUTSTANDING LIBRARY. AND IT'S OUR GOAL TO CONTINUE THAT TRADITION OF COOPERATION FOR THE COMMON GOOD REPORTING REQUIREMENTS TO BOTH THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND THE STATE DEMONSTRATES THAT SAMUEL'S PUBLIC LIBRARY UNDERSTANDS AND RESPECTS THE PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP. TO THAT END, WE HOPE THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ARE HAPPY AND PROUD THAT ITS INVESTMENTS IN THE LIBRARY HAVE JUST THIS YEAR GARNERED NOT ONLY A $500,000 GRANT FROM THE MELLON FOUNDATION, BUT ALSO THE THREE OF AWARDS YOU SEE IN FRONT OF US. THIS IS HUGE. AND OUR LOCAL LIBRARY IS ONE OF A FIELD OF 372 PUBLIC LIBRARIES IN VIRGINIA. IT'S A MODEL OF TRANSPARENCY, [01:10:01] ACCOUNTABILITY, AND EXCELLENCE, AND SERVES AS A VIBRANT HUB OF OUR COMMUNITY. LOOKING TOWARD THE FUTURE, LET, WE HOPE THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO PROMOTE THE AWARDS AND MARKET THE SUCCESS TO BUSINESSMEN, REALTORS, AND INCREASE TOURISM. WE VIEW THIS AS A WIN FOR ONE SHOULD BE A WIN FOR ALL. I JUST WANNA MAKE A COMMENT ON THIS. YOU KNOW, UM, AGAIN, AS I'M, I'M THE BUDGET PERSON, YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT WARREN COUNTY'S BUDGET AS A PORTFOLIO AND WHAT I MEAN BY PORTFOLIO, YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT OUR TAX REVENUE THAT WE GET OUR EXPENDITURES GOING OUT AND OUR DEBT, AND I, AND I ONLY, I'M ONLY GONNA SPEAK TO MYSELF OH, FOR MYSELF, IS THAT I ALSO HAVE CONCERN OF OUR COMMUNITY AND TRYING TO KEEP OUR TAXES IN BAIT, IF YOU WILL. YOU KNOW, I KNOW IF THERE'S INFLATION, YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ESCALATION FACTORS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE YEARS AGO WHERE THERE WAS MONEY AVAILABLE TO MAINTAIN THINGS. NOW IN THE CURRENT SITUATION THAT WE'RE IN, THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, WE HAVE TO REALLY LOOK AT WHAT WE, WHAT WE'RE BRINGING IN. EVERYBODY'S GETTING A CUT IN THE, IN OUR BUDGET PROCESS. SO, YOU KNOW, SO WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT BUDGETS AND WHERE THEY GO AND YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH WE CAN, UM, PROVIDE TO THE LIBRARY, PLEASE WE'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF OUR DEPARTMENTS WE HAD TO CUT LAST YEAR AND OTHER PARTNERSHIP FIVE, UH, 5 0 1 C3. SO I JUST WANT TO PUT THAT OUT THERE TO REMEMBER THAT WHEN WE START GOING THROUGH THE BUDGET PROCESS AND, YOU KNOW, AND KINDA MELLOW, KIND OF KEEP DOWN THIS ATTACK ON, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT WE, WE DON'T CARE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE PUNISHING YOU OR, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW, WE JUST, WE'RE TRYING TO BE RESPONSIBLE WITH THE TAX DOLLARS. AND AGAIN, AS I JUST SAID BEFORE, YOU KNOW, I VIEW THE COUNTY BUDGET AS THE PORTFOLIO AND IT'S A THREE-LEGGED STOOL AND WE JUST HAVE TO BALANCE IT. SO THAT'S ALL MY COMMENT. AND I THINK WE APPRECIATE THAT. AND WE'RE WORKING ON OUR BUDGET. WE ARE TRYING TO KEEP THE BUDGET AS LOW, AS LOW AS POSSIBLE. BUT I WILL SAY THAT WE HAVE REACHED OUT TO THE COUNTY TO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SPENDING ON MAINTENANCE SO THAT WE CAN PUT IT INTO OUR BUDGET. WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT WE CAN'T GET THAT NUMBER. SO JUST, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE WORKING WITH YOU ON. UM, SO THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOTTA PUT IT IN OUR BUDGET. SO JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NOW HAVE TO, AND WE UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION, YOU KNOW, WE UNDERSTAND WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE CONTRACT, WE'RE FINE WITH THAT, BUT UNDERSTAND THAT WE'VE GOTTA PUT THAT BACK INTO OUR BUDGET. SO I JUST WANTED TO GIVE THAT HEADS UP. OH, ABSOLUTELY. AND AGAIN, I THINK WHEN I LOOK AT THE TOTAL, YOU KNOW, I THINK A PENNY PER DOLLAR, I THINK OF THE VALUE THAT WE PROVIDE THIS COMMUNITY WITH THE LIBRARY IS OUTSTANDING, OR A PENNY PER DOLLAR. SO AGAIN, JUST KIND OF PROMOTING OUR BUDGET, YOU KNOW, WE ALL WANT THIS AND I THINK WE ALL CAN APPRECIATE MM-HMM. IF PENNY, IF THERE'S ANYTHING I CAN DO TO HELP YOU GET THAT INFORMATION, OKAY. PLEASE LET ME KNOW. THANK, AND WE'LL SEE WHAT WE CAN DO. SO WE CAN, WE'LL TRY AGAIN. BUT AGAIN, I MEAN, BE YEAH, YEAH. WE, WE KNOW WE HAVE TO PUT IT INTO OUR BUDGET. ABSOLUTELY. SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET A GOOD NUMBER. YEAH. SO WE ARE VERY DILIGENT ABOUT WHEN WE PUT A BUDGET TOGETHER, WE WORK HARD ON IT. MM-HMM. , WE TRY TO KEEP IT AT A, A MINIMUM. WE REALLY DO BECAUSE WE KNOW, WE KNOW YOUR POSITION, WE UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION. I DO A BUDGET, I WORK ON MY BUDGET. I WORK FOR A BIG COMPANY. I'M WORKING ON BUDGET RIGHT NOW, . SO I UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION, BUT UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE TRYING TO, TO GET AS GOOD A BUDGET AS WE CAN TOGETHER. YEP. ABSOLUTELY. IS IS THERE, IS THERE SOME KIND OF VALUE THAT YOU'RE EXPECTING FROM THE LIBRARY THAT YOU'RE JUST NOT GETTING? IS THERE SOMETHING LIKE, OR ARE WE MISSING OUT ON SOMETHING THAT YOU EXPECT NOT FROM SOME KIND? NOT FROM MY POINT OF VIEW. THE, THE, THE, WHEN I, WHEN I SAY SOMETHING LIKE, UM, IS IT SHIELDED FROM A, IS THERE SOMETHING ABOUT THIS RELATIONSHIP THAT SHIELDS IT FROM A COMPETITIVE PROCESS? IT'S HAVING MORE PERFORMANCE METRICS GIVEN TO ME ISN'T, ISN'T REALLY GONNA BE MEANINGFUL. BUT, BUT IF, IF THERE IS A COMPETITIVE PROCESS FOR PROCURING THIS SERVICE, THEN BY LOOKING AT ALTERNATIVES, A, B, AND C, I WOULD, ON A SCOPE OF WORK, THEN THAT WOULD BE COMPETITIVE. THAT WOULD BE MEANINGFUL COMPARISON. [01:15:01] OKAY. UM, SO, SO I DON'T, UH, I MEAN, I, I DON'T DISPUTE, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THERE SHOULD BE, SHOULD, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING DONE. UH, IN TERMS OF OFFERING MEETING ROOMS OR, OR WHATEVER. NO, THERE'S NOT A LACKING IN THAT SENSE THAT I PERCEIVE, UM, THE THREAT OF, OF MY CONCERNS I THINK IS EVIDENT. AND IT'S JUST SIMPLY, IS IT, ARE WE BEING GOOD FIDUCIARIES? 'CAUSE IF, IF IT'S COSTING THE COUNTY MILLION, IT MIGHT POTENTIALLY COST IT 700,000. AND I DON'T KNOW. AND I WOULD, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WE'VE ALREADY GONE THROUGH THOSE PROCESS, AND I, I WOULDN'T MIND GOING THROUGH IT AGAIN TO VERIFY THAT THIS IS THE BEST OPTION FOR THE COUNTY. BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT TAKES RESEARCH AND TIME AND, AND MONEY TO DO AND MONEY TO DO IT. YEAH. OKAY. WE READY TO MOVE ON? MM-HMM. LESSONS LEARNED FROM LAST YEAR, FROM FY 24. IN 2023, THERE WAS A PREVALENT NARRATIVE THAT THE LIBRARY MAY BE CLOSED. YET THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS NEVER INDICATED THAT POSSIBILITY NOR WAS FUNDING EVER WITHHELD IN A CURRENT OPERATING PERIOD. DISCUSS WHY SAMUEL DID NOT PROACTIVELY PROMOTE A CALMING REASSURANCE TO THE PUBLIC. THE LIBRARY SERVICES WOULD NOT BE INTERRUPTED. 'CAUSE IN A WORST CASE SCENARIO OF PROTRACTED CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS, IT HAD A MILLION DOLLARS OF FUND IT COULD USE AS A BUFFER DISCUSSED, THE ROLE SAMUEL'S HAD IN THE LIBRARY CLOSING NARRATIVE WITH THE PUBLIC RELATIONS FIRM RETAINED IN COORDINATION WITH OTHER GROUPS AND OTHER MEDIA THAT FURTHERED AND PROMOTED THE LIBRARY CLOSING NARRATIVE DISCUSSED THE REASONS BEHIND THE DECISION TO REJECT THE MOA PROPOSALS BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND THE REASONS BEHIND THE TERMS PROPOSED BY SAMUELS IN ITS OWN SEPARATE PROPOSAL. I, I WANT TO, UH, MAKE A A, AN OPENING COMMENT HERE. I THINK THAT THE LIBRARY CLOSING NARRATIVE WAS VERY HARMFUL TO EVERYBODY IN THE COUNTY, UH, TO, ON BOTH SIDES. AND I THINK THAT THAT A, A VERY SMALL, IN TERMS OF THE 40,000 PEOPLE IN THE COUNTY, MAYBE, UM, PICK A GENEROUS NUMBER, 250 ON EACH SIDE, OR 500 ON EACH SIDE. STILL, IF IT'S ACTIVIST PEOPLE COME INTO THE MEETINGS, YOU KNOW, HAVING AN OPINION THIS WAY OR HAVING AN OPINION THAT WAY. UH, MANY, MANY PEOPLE HEARD, WELL, THE LIBRARY MIGHT BE CLOSED, AND, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT WAS, IT WAS DAMAGING TO THEM. AND IT JUST IS, IS IT WAS UNNECESSARY. UH, I FEEL THAT THE, THE MEDIA FANNED THIS. I'M, I'M, I KNOW THAT SAMUELS RETAINED A PUBLIC RELATIONS FIRM TO HELP THEM THROUGH THIS PERIOD. I SPENT 50, MORE THAN $50,000 GETTING ADVICE ABOUT HOW TO GET THROUGH THIS. I ALSO KNOW THAT, UM, OTHER GROUPS, FRIENDS OF SAMUELS, SAFE, SAMUELS, ALL WERE, WERE WORKING WITH THIS CLOSING NARRATIVE. AND IN, IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE, THE, THE SOLUTION ANNOUNCED TO THE CONTROVERSY WAS IN A JULY 10TH MEETING. AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THE, THE, I WASN'T HERE, BUT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ACCEPTED THAT SOLUTION ON JULY 10TH. THIS NARRATIVE CONTINUED ON THROUGH, UH, JULY, AUGUST, SEPTEMBER CONTINUED ON. I WENT AND LOOKED AT ALL THE EDITORIALS, ALL THE PRESS ARTICLES WITH QUOTES FROM SAMUEL'S MEMBERS, MANAGERS. UM, IT WAS, IT WAS, IT WAS UNNECESSARY. I THINK I, I WOULD'VE LIKED TO SEE A REASSURANCE, UH, A CALMING HAND, UM, FROM SAMUELS. NOT A, NOT A THREAT. UH, AND I FEEL THAT THAT WAS HELD OVER THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. I WAS, I WAS MONITORING, WATCHING THE MOAS GO BACK AND FORTH. I READ THE TERMS OF THEIR MOAI READ THE TERMS OF, OF THE MOA THAT SAMUELS DID. SO, SO JUST IN, IN GENERAL, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT WAS IT ABOUT? THIS CLOSING PUBLIC LIBRARY IS GONNA CLOSE NARRATIVE THAT WAS APPROPRIATE IF YOU THINK IT WAS APPROPRIATE OR INAPPROPRIATE. IF YOU THINK IT WAS INAPPROPRIATE. BUT THE, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE, THE, THE PUBLIC LIBRARY IN WARREN COUNTY IS FUNDED BY THE TAXPAYERS. IT'S, IT WAS NEVER SAMUEL'S PREROGATIVE TO CLOSE IT EVER. AND, AND IN FACT, AS I SAID HERE, FUNDING WAS NEVER WITHHELD IN A CURRENT OPERATING PERIOD. THE, THE, THE DISBURSEMENTS OF THE COUNTY. I'VE LOOKED BACK FOR YEARS. THE DISBURSEMENTS THE COUNTY'S MADE OVER TIME HAVE ALWAYS BEEN QUARTERLY. AND THE, THE, THE [01:20:01] QUARTERLY DISBURSEMENT WAS MADE FOR THE FIRST QUARTER, AND THE NEGOTIATIONS WERE ONGOING. SO I'D LIKE TO UNDERSTAND, I'D LIKE TO KNOW YOUR PERSPECTIVES ON IT. WHETHER, WHETHER THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS, IS SOMETHING STILL IN THE CARDS OR IS THIS A, CAN WE JUST CALL THIS A NOT BRING UP CLOSING THE LIBRARY, BECAUSE THAT'S A, IT'S A COUNTY PUBLIC SERVICE. IT'S, IT'S JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD EVER HAPPEN OR BE, UH, SPECULATED ABOUT. IT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN. I AGREE WITH YOU. THERE WAS A FOUR TO ONE VOTE PUBLICLY TO WITHHOLD FUNDING IN JUNE. AND THE LIBRARY HAD NO REASSURANCES AND NO COMMUNICATIONS FROM ANY BOARD MEMBERS THAT, THAT WOULD CHANGE, AND THAT WE WOULD RE RECEIVE FUNDING AGAIN EVER, OR OCTOBER OR THE NEXT QUARTER. UM, THIS WAS NOT OUR CHOICE. THIS CAME OUTTA LEFT FIELD. THERE WAS NO REASON FOR IT. UM, AND IT'S REGRETTABLE BECAUSE, UM, DESPITE OUR DESIRE TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE BOARD, WE NEVER ACTUALLY DID THIS. WE NEVER SAT DOWN AND HAD NEGOTIATIONS. IT ENDED UP BEING BACK AND FORTH. YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THAT, THROUGH LAWYERS. UM, AND THAT'S REGRETTABLE. WE, WE HOPE FOR A BETTER WORKING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OUR TWO BOARDS. WE THINK THAT A MORE RESPECTFUL APPROACH, UM, WOULD'VE BEEN TO HAVE YOUR, YOUR REASSURANCES. THAT FUNDING WAS GONNA CONTINUE. BUT THE REALITY IS THAT WITHOUT, OUT, WITHOUT COUNTY FUNDING BEING RESTORED FOR OCTOBER 1ST, WE WOULD'VE HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO CLOSE THE DOORS. DESPITE USING THE ENDOWMENT, HAVING A MILLION DOLLARS IN YOUR ACCOUNT. YEAH. USING THE ENDOWMENT WOULD ONLY HAVE PROVIDED OPERATIONS FOR ONE YEAR, MAKING IT AN UNSUSTAINABLE APPROACH. THE POINT OF AN ENDOWMENT FUND IS TO GROW THE PRINCIPLE UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE INTEREST CAN BE USED FOR PROJECTS. AND THE FUND IS NOT AT THAT POINT. THE FUND CURRENTLY EXISTS IN CASE OF AN EXTREME EMERGENCY, WHICH WOULD'VE NEEDED TO MAKE FUTURE PLANS OR TO KEEP THE EMPLOYEES WHOLE WHILE THEY LOOKED FOR OTHER JOBS. WE DID ENGAGE A MEDIA FIRM BECAUSE IT WAS UNCHARTERED WATERS. WE'VE NEVER BEEN IN THIS POSITION BEFORE. SUDDENLY WE HAD LOCAL, STATE, UM, NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL NEWS PEOPLE CALLING US. AND THE BOARD, AS GOOD STEWARDS OF THE ORGANIZATION, WERE ADVISED TO SEEK PROFESSIONAL ASSISTANCE. OTHER GROUPS IN AND AROUND THE COUNTY VOICED CONCERNS IN THEIR OPINIONS OR TOOK ACTIONS ALL INDEPENDENTLY. THE LIBRARY RESPONDED TO FOIA REQUESTS AS OUR LEGAL OPERATIONS OR LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY. SO THIS WAS NOT, UM, THIS WAS NOT A, A NARRATIVE THAT WE PROMOTED. THIS WAS A NARRATIVE THAT WAS THRUST UPON US. AND THEN AS TO THE MOA GOING BACK AND FORTH, THOUGH, THOSE PROPOSALS WERE HELD IN CLOSED MEETINGS, UM, UNDER VIRGINIA SECTIONS. AND AS SUCH AREN'T PUBLIC. BUT WE DID MAKE EVERY ATTEMPT TO BE ACCOMMODATING WHILE KEEPING TO OUR ARTICLES, OUR BYLAWS, AND OUR NONPROFIT STATUS. IF I MAY, UM, THE BOARD, WHEN WE APPROVED THE BUDGET LAST YEAR, AND DR. DALEY, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, WE STILL APPROPRIATED ALL OF THE FUNDING. THE 1,000,024, WE APPROVED THAT BUDGET. IT WAS APPRO AND WE APPROPRIATED IT. IT WAS JUST THE FIRST QUARTER ALL WE SAID THAT WE WERE GOING TO TRANSFER THE FIRST QUARTER PAYMENT, WHICH AGAIN, THAT'S HOW IT DR. UH, JAMESON BROUGHT UP. THAT'S HOW WE, UM, TRANSFER THE FUND IS QUARTERLY. DURING THAT, THAT PROCESS. I DO RECALL SOME BOARD MEMBERS SAYING, BACK IN JUNE, WHEN MYSELF AND MS. OATES AT THE TIME MET WITH THE LIBRARY TO COME UP WITH SOME SOLUTIONS THAT WITH THE COMMUNITY, UM, WHICH WE WORKED WELL TOGETHER IN COMING UP WITH THOSE SOLUTIONS, IT WAS, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE SOLUTIONS WERE BEING INCORPORATED AND THAT THEY WERE GONNA WORK AND THAT KIND OF THING. SO [01:25:01] AFTER THE FIRST QUARTER, IT WAS SATISFACTORY TO THE BOARD, AND WE NEGOTIATED THE MOA GOT IT SIGNED, AND THEN BUSINESS, BUSINESS' NORM, IF, IF YOU WILL. BUT MAYBE THAT'S TOO SIMPLE. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, UM, MOVED ON. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE A POINT THAT WE DID NOT CUT YOUR BUDGET. WE DID NOT CUT YOUR FUNDING IN THE BUDGET THAT WAS APPROVED. WE STILL HAD IT APPROPRIATED KNOWING THAT WE WERE GOING TO CONTINUE THE PRO, UH, CONTINUED THE SERVICES, HOW THE NARRATIVE GOT OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, LESSONS LEARNED. AGAIN, LESSONS LEARNED ON BOTH SIDES. BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT POINT THAT WE, AT NO POINT DID WE EVER CONSIDER CUTTING THE BUDGET AND, YOU KNOW, OF THE COURSE OF THE LACK OF COMMUNICATION, YOU KNOW, HERE OR THERE. LET'S MOVE ON. BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE THAT POINT OUT TO EVERYBODY. AND IF YOU HAD LOOKED AT THE, THE BUDGET THAT WE PUBLISHED, YOU WOULD'VE SEEN THAT LINE ITEM FOR, FOR THE LIBRARY OF 1,000,024. NOW, THE, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS HOW CAN YOU WITHHOLD SOMETHING THAT'S IN THE FUTURE? I MEAN, THEY MADE THE FIRST QUARTER APPROPRIATION AND THE, THE, THE OTHER THREE QUARTERS WERE APPROVED IN THE BUDGET, BUT THAT TIME FOR THOSE DISBURSEMENTS HADN'T ARRIVED YET. SO, IN WHAT WAY WERE THEY, WAS IT CUT? IF YOU GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE VOTE, THE VOTE, THE VOTE WAS FOR, TO WITHHOLD FUNDING TO WITHHOLD THE NEXT QUARTER UNTIL SOME THING WAS ACCOMPLISHED. AND THERE WAS NO COMMUNICATION AFTER THAT FROM ANY BOARD MEMBER THAT, OH, IT'S COMING, DON'T WORRY. WHICH, WHICH FIRST QUARTER? THE FIRST ONE WE GOT THE FIRST QUARTER. OKAY. MM-HMM. , IT WAS THE SECOND QUARTER. THE, THAT WOULD'VE BEEN AFFECTED THAT WE WOULD RECEIVE IN OCTOBER, THAT WE HAD NO IDEA WHETHER IT WAS COMING OR NOT. WELL, THAT WAS THE NARRATIVE THAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT, IS THE ONE FROM JULY, AUGUST, AND SEPTEMBER. AND THE, THE, THE NEXT DISTRICT, THE NEXT DISPERSAL, ACCORDING TO THE BUDGETED NUMBER, WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN UNTIL OCTOBER 1ST. RIGHT. BUT IN JUNE, THE BOARD VOTED, THE BOARD HERE VOTED TO WITHHOLD THE FUNDS THEY WERE APPROPRIATED. THEY WERE, THEY WERE IN THE BUDGET, BUT THEY WERE NOT GOING TO BE COMING TO US. WELL, THAT'S BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO GET THE OA WITH WITHOUT INSURANCE APPROVED OR, OR YEAH. WE HAD TO, OR RELIANCE ON IT. WE HAD TO NEGOTIATE THE MOA AND ONCE THE MOA GOT APPROVED RIGHT. THEN, THEN IT WAS RIGHT. BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANNA WORK WITHOUT AN MOA. RIGHT. BUT THAT NEGOTIATE, THAT BACK AND FORTH DID NOT HAPPEN SOON ENOUGH. AND THE PUBLIC WAS CONCERNED AND, AND COMING TO MEETINGS AND, AND ENCOURAGING THE BOARD TO FULLY FUND THE LIBRARY AND TO NOT WITHHOLD ANYTHING. YEAH. AND WAY WAS NOT APPROVED OCTOBER 1ST ANYWAY. IT WAS THE FOURTH. IT WAS, IT WAS, YEAH. BUT IT WAS STILL HUNG OVER OUR HEADS THAT WE WEREN'T GONNA GET ANY. WELL, WELL, I MEAN, THAT'S A, THAT'S A QUE A FAIR QUESTION FOR DISCUSSION. I MEAN, IF, IF, IF THIS, IF THIS BOARD IS WHO YOU DEPEND ON FOR YOUR FUNDING, WAS IT INAPPROPRIATE TO HOLD BACK ON THAT UNTIL A SATISFACTORY DOCUMENT? THERE WAS NO OPERATING AGREEMENT. THERE WASN'T. THEY WERE OP THEY WERE OPERATING WITHOUT AN AGREEMENT. SO THAT AGREEMENT WAS NECESSARY. RIGHT. WELL, WAS IT APPROPRIATE? IS IT APPROPRIATE? RIGHT. YOU WANT THE MONEY. CAN CAN WE, WE NEED TO SIGN AN AGREEMENT. YEAH. SO THERE'S WE AND WE, WE ARE HAPPY TO SIGN AN MOA THE HISTORICALLY, WE HAVE NEVER HAD AN MOA WITH THE COUNTY THROUGH THE YEARS. THE FIRST ONE WAS THE 2017 MOA. SO THERE HAD NEVER BEEN ONE UNTIL THE 2017 MOA. SO IT WASN'T LIKE WE WEREN'T DOING THAT AFTER THE 2017 MOA EXPIRED. NOBODY CAME TO US AND SAID, WE NEED TO RENEW IT, OR LET'S DO ANOTHER ONE. SO THERE WAS, IN OUR HISTORY WITH THE COUNTY, THERE'S ONLY BEEN ONE MOA PRIOR TO THE CURRENT ONE THAT EXPIRED. AND IT EXPIRED. IT EXPIRED, AND IT FELL THROUGH THE LOOP THAT WE WERE NOT, RIGHT. YEAH. IF THAT'S ALL HAD HAPPENED ON BOTH SIDES, IT FELL THROUGH THE LOOP. WE NOT, SO WE REMEDIED BY, WE KNOW THAT YOU WERE EXPECTING ONE. WELL, AND THEN IT WAS ONLY BECAUSE OF THIS, THESE ISSUES THAT NOW SUDDENLY THE MOA BECAME AN ISSUE. WELL, AGAIN, THERE WAS AN MOA, IT EXPIRED IN 2020, MAYBE 2021. MM-HMM. , IT WAS A THREE YEAR, BOTH BOARDS. IT JUST SLIPPED THROUGH THE CRACK. AND, AND, AND SO WE HAD TO REINITIATE IT. YEAH. AND IT WAS PRETTY MUCH FOR A SPECIFIC REASON AT THAT POINT. SO, AND THEN WE HAD ANOTHER SPECIFIC REASON THIS TIME AROUND. SO THERE HASN'T BEEN ONE, IT'S NOT LIKE WE HAVE ONE EVERY YEAR, IS WHAT I'M SAYING. IT WAS THE FIRST ONE WAS 2017, BECAUSE THERE WAS ALWAYS A WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE, WITH THE BOARD. SO WE HOPE THAT WE CAN JUST IMPROVE COMMUNICATIONS BACK AND FORTH SO THAT THESE KIND OF THINGS DON'T HAPPEN AGAIN. WOULD YOU, WOULD YOU MIND ANY, ANYBODY DISCUSSING SOME OF THE REASONS BEHIND [01:30:01] WHY THE, THE WHAT THE MOA WAS SOMETHING THE COUNTY WAS NEEDING TO CONTINUE OPERATIONS AND SAYING, WE, WE GOTTA HAVE ME A MEMBER OF A ME, ME MEMORANDUM, MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT. RIGHT. TO CONTINUE THIS RELATIONSHIP. UM, AND SO NEGOTIATION WAS ONGOING AND THEY, THEY FORWARDED ONE TO YOU. MM-HMM. , WHICH YOU, AS I UNDERSTAND UNANIMOUSLY REJECTED AND THEN HAD YOUR OWN. AND THEN YOU SENT THAT OVER TO THE, CAN YOU KIND OF DISCUSS HOW THAT WENT? THAT WAS HAPPENED IN CLOSED MEETINGS? WE'RE NOT GONNA GO INTO THAT. OKAY. THOSE WERE, YOU WOULDN'T SHARE YOUR CLOSED MEETINGS WITH US EITHER. SO THAT WAS CLOSED MEETINGS. RIGHT. NOBODY UNDER THE, UNDER THE LAW. YEAH. OKAY. I THINK ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UH, DR. JAMESON IS KIND OF GETTING TOWARD GETTING AT IS, AND THIS WAS, THIS WAS MY IMPRESSION. I, I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CHERYL OR, UH, OR, UH, VICKI, UH, OR THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS THAT AT THE TIME. BUT, UH, I, MY IMPRESSION WAS THAT, UH, THE LIBRARY WAS COMING FORWARD AND SAYING, GIVE US THE MONEY AND GO AWAY. THAT'S, THAT WAS A FEELING THAT I GOT REALLY WELL, IN ALL FAIRNESS, I THINK A LOT OF THE, UM, DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS AND SO FORTH HAVE THAT MENTALITY. NOT, I MEAN, SERIOUSLY . UM, I, YOU KNOW, AND I, I KNOW WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION AT THE LIAISON COMMITTEE, UM, WITH THE TOWN OF COMMUNICATION. AND THIS IS A, A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF COMMUNICATION GONE AWRY AT A ASTRONOMICAL LEVEL THAT AFFECTED THE WHOLE COMMUNITY. SO IF WE DON'T LEARN ANYTHING ELSE FROM THIS, IT'S THAT WE ALL NEED TO COMMUNICATE LIKE THIS BETTER. YEAH. UM, WE WOULD WELCOME THAT. AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS, I WAS A LITTLE APPREHENSIVE ABOUT THIS MEETING, BUT IT'S TURNING OUT MUCH BETTER THAN I THOUGHT IT WOULD. AND THIS IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE BACK AND FORTH, HONEST COMMUNICATION, UH, THAT DOESN'T GET OFF THE RAILS. SO I APPRECIATE THAT. BUT, UM, I, I JUST HAD TO SAY THAT NOT BEING FACETIOUS AT ALL, BUT I, I THINK THAT'S BASICALLY EVERYONE THAT COMES INTO US WITH REQUESTS OR HOPING THAT THEY JUST, WE JUST NOD OUR HEAD AND SAY, SOUNDS GREAT. GIVE THEM THE MONEY. AND THEY GO ON THEIR WAY. AND, AND IT, IT CAN'T BE THAT WAY. IT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, YOU KNOW, WE DO NEED TO HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY AND I, UM, IN ALL OF THESE DEPARTMENTS AND IT'S HARD. IT'S VERY HARD. UM, AND IT'S, IT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION. AND, UM, I THINK WE JUST ALL NEED TO UP OUR GAME ON DOING BETTER WITH IT. NOT JUST THE LIBRARY, BUT FOR ALL THE DEPARTMENTS. ONE OF THE BEST THINGS TO COME OUT OF THAT, IN MY OPINION, IS THE SIX MONTH THAT WE COME TO YOU EVERY SIX MONTHS, BECAUSE IT, IT ONLY, EVERYTHING'S SO TRANSPARENT ON OUR WEBSITE AND WE JUST ENJOY STANDING IN FRONT OF YOU AND SAYING ALL THE GOOD THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING AT THE LIBRARY SO THAT YOU HEAR IT FIRSTHAND AND YOU CAN SEE THE STATISTICS AND HOW MUCH THE COMMUNITY IS USING THIS BUILDING AND, AND WHAT WE WANT YOU TO GENUINELY BE PROUD OF THIS BUILDING AND PROUD OF THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING THERE. SO, UM, I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE REALLY GOOD POINTS THAT CAME OUT OF THE MOA. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS IS WE, WE WOULD MAKE CHANGES THAT WE THOUGHT WERE WHAT YOU WANTED AND THE PROBLEM STILL HAPPENED. SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY GIVING THE MONEY, IT'S MORE LIKE WE FELT WE WERE PENDING TO YOUR WILL AND STILL NOT GETTING ANYWHERE OR COMMUNICATION. SO IT'S LIKE, WE WANT TO, WE WANT TO SATISFY YOUR CONCERNS, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. UM, AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE BIGGEST PROBLEM I THINK THAT WE FACED. AND WE ALL FELT IT, ALL THE STAFF FELT IT. AND IT WAS NOT A GOOD TIME TO BE WORKING IN THE LIBRARY AT THAT TIME. 'CAUSE YOU COULD CUT THE AIR WITH A BUTTER KNIFE. IT WAS SO THICK. SO YEAH, WE, WE, WE ARE OPEN TO WHATEVER YOU GUYS EAT. WE WE'RE SERVING YOU, WE ARE SERVING THE COMMUNITY. I, I THINK MRS. HOEK JUST SAID THAT SHE WON'T DISCUSS THIS, AND YOU WON'T DISCUSS THIS, BUT YOU JUST SAID YOU WERE BENDING TO THE WILL YES. OF THE BOARD, BUT THE, THE, THEY OFFERED YOU AN MOA THAT HAD SOME SIGNIFICANT CHANGES, PARTICULARLY IN TERMS OF REPRESENTATION, TAXPAYER REPRESENTATION ON YOUR BOARD. THE REQUEST WAS FOR SEVEN, THEN FIVE. AND IN, IN ALL CASES WAS NO, NO. SO THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF MM-HMM. , IT'S AN INVITATION. WERE YOU BENDING TO THE WILL? WERE YOU GIVING AN INCH? UH, THAT'S A QUESTION. I, I WAS TALKING [01:35:01] ABOUT THE LIBRARY CHANGES OF WHERE BOOKS WERE LOCATED. UM, I, THE, THE OTHER THING IS THERE ARE LAWS THAT I CANNOT BEND TO WHERE THE LIBRARY IS CONSTRUCTED CAN ONLY GO SO FAR. WELL, REFERRING TO THE, TO THE, TO THE MOA THAT THE COUNTY OFFERED WITH THE INCREASED REPRESENTATION. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO. YEAH. THERE, I I CANNOT GO INTO THAT. BUT THERE WERE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS AND I CAN'T SAY WHAT THEY ARE. YEAH. BUT THERE WERE CONCERNS. OKAY. I I, I WOULD INVITE YOU TO TELL US WHAT YOUR CONCERNS WERE. WELL, I WASN'T ON THE BOARD AT THE TIME, BUT I SUPPORTED THEIR, THEIR ATTEMPT TO GAIN REPRESENTATION ON THE SAMUELS MM-HMM. BOARD. UM, EVEN THOUGH I RECOGNIZED EVEN IF YOUR BOARD OF YOUR NONPROFIT ACCEPTED FIVE PUBLICLY APPOINTED A PUBLICLY ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE, APPOINTED MEMBERS, UM, IT WOULD STILL NOT, UH, BE A MAJORITY. RIGHT. IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAD THAT WOULD OR TAX CONSEQUENCES OF BEING A CHARITY. YEAH. WHEN THE GOVERNMENT, AND IN THAT, IN THAT RESPECT, I, I DIDN'T SUPPORT THAT THEIR, THEIR ATTEMPT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK A PUBLIC, UH, PUBLICLY APPOINTED REPRESENTATIVE SHOULD BE ON A PRIVATE BOARD. I WILL SAY THAT WE DUG INTO THE MOAS. WE TOOK THEM VERY SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED ALL THE RAMIFICATIONS AND THE LEGAL POINTS THAT, BUT I, I CANNOT SAY SPECIFICALLY WHAT WE DECIDED AND WHAT WENT ON. BUT PLEASE BE AWARE, WE DID CONSIDER THEM. WE DIDN'T OUTRIGHT REJECT THEM. WE DID LOOK AND CONSIDER WHAT COULD POSSIBLY CHANGE TO MAKE THIS RIGHT. SO I, I, THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY THERE. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE YOUR CANDOR. IS THERE ANY MORE ON THIS? OKAY. ALRIGHT. UM, I'D LIKE TO OPEN UP THE POSSIBLE, UH, DISCUSSION OF SOME POSSIBLE CHANGES. I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF CREATING A SEPARATE SAMUELS ENTITY TO OVERSEE PRIVATE CONTRIBUTORY FUNDS IN AN ENDOWMENT IN SUPPORT OF THE PUBLIC LIBRARY WHILE SEPARATING AN OPERATIONS ENTITY. THIS WOULD MAKE SAMUELS CONSISTENT WITH A NORMAL MANNER IN WHICH PRIVATE TRUST AND ENDOWMENTS INTERACT WITH PUBLIC LIBRARIES VERY SUCCESSFULLY ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. THERE, THERE'S AN ISSUE WHEN, AND, AND WE, YOU KNOW, I, I INTERACTED, UH, WITH MRS. HOEK AND MRS. GRADY A FAIR AMOUNT IN JANUARY, UM, ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE FLOWS OF, OF NUMBERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND, AND, UM, THERE IS, UM, AND I STATED AT THE TIME, AND I STATED, AGAIN, I'M NOT, I'M NOT ADDRESSING ANYTHING ABOUT LEGALITIES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT I, BUT THERE IS A, UH, THERE'S A, ON THE ONE HAND, A SITUATION IN THIS HERE WHERE THERE'S NOTHING, THERE'S NOTHING LIKE THIS AROUND HERE. IT'S, IT, THE PUBLIC LIBRARY BOARDS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE GO GOVERNANCE AND OPERATIONS OF, OF THEIR LIBRARIES AND PRIVATE ENDOWMENTS AND TRUSTS, INTERACT WITH THEM VERY SUCCESSFULLY. WRITING GRANTS, BRINGING MAKER LABS IN AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS. THAT'S THE NORMAL WAY THINGS ARE DONE. AND IT DOESN'T INVOLVE ANY CONFLATION OF, OF, UM, PRIVATE AND, AND PUBLIC FUNDS. THE, UH, I HOPE YOU KNOW WHAT I MEANT BY THAT. OBVIOUSLY THERE'S PRIVATE AND PUBLIC MONEY GOING INTO SUPPORT THE LIBRARY, AND THAT'S DESIRABLE. AND SAMUEL'S DOES A REASONABLY GOOD JOB OF THAT. UH, WHEN I SEE SOMETHING LIKE, AND I POINTED THIS OUT IN JANUARY YEAR AFTER YEAR, THE DONATIONS ESTIMATE AND THE BUDGET IS SAY 25,000, 30,000, 31,000. AND THEN THE ACTUAL DONATIONS ARE A HUNDRED THOUSAND, 200,000. IT JUST LIKE, THERE, THERE'S A, A, A DIFFICULT TO TRACK PROCESS THERE. AND YOU CAN SAY, WELL COME IN AND WE'LL SHOW YOU HOW IT ALL TRACKS. IT'S AN, IT'S NOT A STANDARD WAY IT'S DONE. AND I'M JUST, I'M WONDERING, YOU KNOW, IF IF THERE'S ANY OPENNESS TO HAVING AN OPERATING COMPANY OVER HERE THAT'S JUST CONCERNED WITH OPERATING THE LIBRARY AND OVER HERE, ALL THE FUNDRAISING, THE CONTRIBUTORY, THE ENDOWMENT, ALL OF THE THINGS THAT THE, THE WORD IN YOUR MINUTES FOR THE ENDOWMENT FUND ARE TO SUPPORT, I BELIEVE IT SAYS THE LONGEVITY AND SOMETHING OF THE LIBRARY FOREVER. RIGHT. UM, IT'S, IT'S, I I'M, YOU KNOW, INTERESTED IN, IN THE COMPETITIVENESS OF LIBRARY SERVICES. I'M INTERESTED IN THE POTENTIAL FOR WHAT IT WOULD, WHAT IT WOULD COST IF WE WERE PART OF A REGIONAL SYSTEM. I MEAN, THERE'S, I AM OPEN TO OPTIONS IN, IN THAT REGARD. OKAY. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. UM, SO I, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE VERY BEST THAT SAMUELS HAS AND CAN CONTRIBUTE [01:40:01] IS IN THE, IS FOR SURE IN THIS CHARITABLE, PRIVATE CONTRIBUTORY FUNDRAISING TASTE OF BOOKS, ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF. I'M NOT REALLY THAT SURE. I'M, I'M NOT SURE, UM, THAT THE OPERATIONAL, THE, THE OPERATIONAL DAY TO DAY, DAY-TO-DAY MECHANICS OF RUNNING A LIBRARY IS A CORE IS SOMETHING THAT'S CORE AND NECESSARY FOR YOU TO DO. IS, AND SO YEAH, YOU, MRS. HOEK IS CONFUSED. I'M, I'M, I'M BLATHERING I GUESS, BUT RESPOND IN IN ANY WAY. I MEAN, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? WHERE TO START? UM, SO SAN LUIS LIBRARY IS ONE OF 19 NONPROFITS. SO IT'S NOT UNUSUAL TO HAVE A NONPROFIT LIBRARY IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA. WHEN IS IS THAT AT LIKE 350 THAT YOU, UH, 372. OKAY. YEAH. UM, SORRY. FOUR PUBLIC LIBRARY SYSTEMS. 94 PUBLIC LIBRARY SYSTEMS. OKAY. UM, SO WHEN, WHEN IT'S, WHEN YOU HAVE A MUNICIPAL LIBRARY AND IT'S, AND IT'S FULLY FUNDED BY THE COUNTY, THEN YOU DEFINITELY NEED A SEPARATE FOUNDATION TO, IN ORDER TO RAISE DONATIONS AND TO A SEPARATE NONPROFIT TO MONITOR THOSE FUNDS. BECAUSE WE ARE ALREADY A NONPROFIT, WE ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO, UM, TO FOLLOW THAT MODEL. SO WE HAVE SYSTEMS IN PLACE, CHECKS AND BALANCES. WE HAVE A FINANCE COMMITTEE. WE MEET BIMONTHLY TO REV REVIEW THE FINANCES. WE HAVE A FINANCIAL ADVISOR WHO COMES IN ANNUALLY AND, AND IS A PHONE CALL AWAY WHEN THERE ARE ISSUES. AND WE HAVE A, AN ANNUAL AUDIT. SO ALL THE CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE IN PLACE TO MONITOR OUR ENDOWMENT FUND. AND THE FINANCES ARE SEP ARE, ARE VERY WELL BEING HANDLED. UM, ALL OF THE, ALL OF THESE ARE, THEY COME TO AND REPORT AT OUR MEETINGS. SO THE FINANCIAL ADVISOR COMES EVERY SEPTEMBER. THE ANNUAL AUDIT JUST FINISHED. AND, UH, HY AND BARBARA WILL BE COMING IN NOVEMBER. SO WE INVITE YOU TO COME AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT OUR AUDIT, UM, YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME TO THE MEETING. BUT THE, THE STRUCTURES ARE DIFFERENT AND THERE WE DON'T NEED THAT EXTRA LAYER OF COMPLEXITY BECAUSE SYSTEMS CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE ALREADY IN PLACE. DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE A LIST OF THE, OF THE OTHER 18 LIBRARIES? WE CAN GET THEM, WE CAN GET A LIST. OKAY. I'D APPRECIATE THAT. SO IS THERE ANY VALUE ADDED IN ASKING, AND I THINK WE TOUCHED ON THIS EARLIER WITH THE COMMINGLING OF, OF THE COST OF, WE, WE, AS THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS FOCUS ON THE OPERATIONAL PART OF THE LIBRARY AND ALL THEIR PROGRAMS ACTIVITIES ARE LIKE SEPARATE WHEN IT COMES TO LOOKING AT THE TOTAL, YOUR TOTAL BUDGET, IF YOU WILL. SO, LIKE, I KNOW IN THE PAST, AND I DON'T KNOW IF, IF WE, I'M PRETTY SURE WE STILL DO IT. WHEN YOU COME AND YOU REQUEST, WHEN YOU PROVIDE YOUR, UH, THE BUDGET REQUEST AND YOU BREAK OUT THIS MUCH GOING TO THE SALARIES, THIS MUCH GOES TO BOOKS, THIS MUCH GOES HERE. AND MAYBE WE DO THIS ALREADY. I'M, I'M, I'M HAVING A, YOU KNOW, I DON'T RECALL. BUT WHAT'S BEING PRESENTED TO US ON THAT SHEET IS JUST OPERATIONAL COSTS. DOES IT INCLUDE YOUR DONATION FORECAST? WHICH, LIKE, WHAT I, WHAT I THINK I'M HEARING IS THAT THE DONATIONS WILL HELP WITH THESE PROGRAMS THAT YOU HAVE AND, AND THE FUNDRAISING AND ALL THAT KIND OF THING. SO I'M JUST THROWING THIS OUT THERE. SOMETHING THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT LATER ON ABOUT SOMEHOW DIVIDING THOSE TWO THINGS. SO WHEN IT COMES TO THE BUDGET PROCESS, IF YOU REMEMBER IN THE REPORTS THAT WE GIVE TO THE BOARD MEMBERS EVERY TWO MONTHS, THERE'S A RUNNING TOTAL OF ACTUAL NUMBERS UNDER ALL THE OPERATIONAL EXPENSES SO THAT IT'S NOT COMMINGLED. THEY'RE, THEY'RE SEPARATE IN QUICKBOOKS. THERE'S SEPARATE LINE ITEMS FOR OPERATIONAL EXPENSES AND ON OTHER TYPE OF CATEGORIES. [01:45:01] SO YOU, YOU GET THAT EVERY TWO MONTHS. YOU GOT IT WHEN YOU WERE ON THE BOARD. CHERYL GETS THAT AS WELL. ANY DONATIONS ARE FOR THINGS THAT ARE OVER AND ABOVE OPERATIONS. SO WHEN WE PAINT THE BUILDING, WHEN WE PROVIDE EXCEPT TOYS OR PRIZES, YOU KNOW, FOR CERTAIN PROGRAMS TO ENHANCE THE QUALITY OF THE SERVICES WE PROVIDE, THOSE COME FROM DONATED MONIES. MOST GENERALLY, OUR, OUR FRIENDS GROUP WHO IS ITS OWN NONPROFIT WILL, WILL PROVIDE US WITH FUNDING FOR THINGS THAT WE DON'T EXPECT THE COUNTY TO PAY FOR. WE DON'T EXPECT THE COUNTY TO PAY FOR TOYS THAT GO TO READING PRIZES. UM, SO ALL THE DONATED MONIES GO TO OVER AND ABOVE OPERATIONAL EXPENSES. AND YOU CAN FIND THOSE ON THE BUDGET IN THE ACTUALS AT THE END OF EACH YEAR. WE HAVE AN ACTUAL COLUMN, UM, OF WHAT ALL THOSE OPERATION EXPENSES ARE. I'LL HAVE TO TAKE THAT REPORT 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S FORMATTED IN THE WAY THAT I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE YEAH, IT SEPARATED. SO AGAIN, I'LL, I'LL TAKE A LOOK AT IT AGAIN. WE'D LOVE FOR YOU TO COME IN AND TALK TO EILEEN AND GO OVER ALL THESE LINE ITEM QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE. YEAH. 'CAUSE I, RIGHT NOW THIS FOR REMEMBERING, YOU HAVE ONE SECTION THAT HAS REVENUE OF ALL THE DIFFERENT DONATIONS AND WHAT WE HAVE, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE ACTUALS THAT ARE SEPARATED IN DIFFERENT SECTIONS. YOU HAVE OPERATIONAL AND YOU HAVE DONATIONS. YOU HAVE DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF EXPENDITURES. YEAH. ON THE BUDGETS. MM-HMM. RIGHT. THE BUDGET, HOW, YOU KNOW, BUT WHERE I'M, I WANNA TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER AND SAY, OKAY, OUT OF THE MILLION 24 THAT IS GIVEN TO THE LIBRARY, YOU WANT AN ASSIGNMENT. HOW MUCH OF THOSE OPERATIONAL COSTS ARE BEING USED WITH THAT MILLION DOLLARS? YOU KNOW THAT RIGHT? BUT I'LL, I'LL DOUBLE CHECK AND LOOK AT THE REPORT AGAIN. IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE I I FOLLOWED THE EXPENDITURES. SO, SORRY. VICKY. VICKY, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT LAST. CAN YOU CLARIFY THAT? OKAY. SO AGAIN, OF THE MILLION $24 THAT, UH, NOT $24 A MILLION, A MILLION DOLLARS THAT WE, UH, APPROPRIATE TO SAMUELS INC. UHHUH, IN MY MIND, AND, AND, AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS OFFLINE, BUT RIGHT NOW IN MY MIND, THAT, THAT MONEY IS USED TO FOR OPERATIONAL COSTS. CORRECT. OKAY. THE SALARIES, ALL OF IT, SALARIES, THE LIGHTS, WHATEVER IT IS. UTILITIES, YES. WHATEVER. MM-HMM. . OKAY. OPERATIONAL. YES. OKAY. SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW OF THE OPERATIONAL COSTS, WHAT EXPENDITURES ARE BEING, ARE BEING TAKEN FROM THAT MILLION DOLLARS. OKAY. SO I ALREADY, SO I ALREADY QUOTED THAT WAS LIKE 700 FOR 23, IT WAS SALARIES WITH $700,000 AND THERE WAS A DELTA $319,000 LEFT. SO WHERE, WHAT ELSE, WHAT OTHER OPERATIONAL EXPENSES OCCURRED? I THOUGHT WE WERE GONNA THAT IN JUNE. RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING WITH, THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S EXACTLY, I'M JUST REPLY GOING TO SEE WHERE I WAS GOING THEN. SO I'M JUST KIND OF RETHINKING IT AGAIN, . RIGHT, RIGHT. SO, SO ANYWAY, SO YOU JUST WANNA SEE LIKE LIGHTS, STAFF MAINTENANCE, OR DO YOU NEED IT DRILLED DOWN OR JUST WELL, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I, I LOOK AT THE, AND WE CAN TALK OFFLINE ABOUT IT. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE DOWN TO A LINE ITEM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I MEAN, GRANTED YOU HAVE QUICKBOOKS, SO YOU ALREADY HAVE THE DETAIL. YEAH, YEAH. RIGHT. WELL, IT'S THE REPORT THE LIBRARY VIRGINIA PUTS TOGETHER IS PRETTY DETAILED. YEAH. YEAH. WE DON'T NEED TO GOOD. WELL, I CAN'T, I I, I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR THE REST OF THE BOARD THAT I DON'T NEED THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL. YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE IT AT CATEGORIES. YEP. OKAY. THEN THAT I'M, I'M FINE WITH THAT. OR GLA OR WHATEVER TERMS THAT YOU USE. NO PROBLEM. YEAH. YOU KNOW, SO ANYWAY, ANYTHING FURTHER, I HAD LIKE TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR COMING TO THIS MEETING. IT'S VERY MEANINGFUL. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER BEFORE WE ADJOURN? I, I THINK, I THINK WE, WE GOT THE, NO, I DON'T THINK SO. BEFORE WE CLOSE, I HAD A COUPLE ACTION ITEMS THAT I'LL JUST SEND TO DR. DALEY. OKAY. AND, AND I RECOMMEND IF ANYBODY HAD ANY OPEN ACTION ITEMS SO WE CAN GET 'EM ON A LIST AND DISTRIBUTE TO EVERYBODY FOR FOLLOW UP. YEAH. TO CLOSE OUR DISCUSSIONS. AND AGAIN, PLEASE, WE, WE WANT A GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIP. SO ANYTHING THAT YOU HAVE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE US TO DO OR INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED, JUST GIVE US A HOLLER. [01:50:04] THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY. THANK YOU. WELL, I APPRECIATE EVERYONE COMING OUT AND PUTTING UP WITH MY COUGH. IT, UM, I DON'T HAVE A BUBONIC PLAGUE. IT'S JUST HOT UP HERE AND IT CAUSES MY REACTIVE AIRWAY PROBLEM, . BUT THANK YOU. AND SAFE TRIP FOR HOME. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.