[00:00:04]
GOOD EVENING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. IT IS TUESDAY JULY THE 8TH.
AND WE BEGIN OUR WORK SESSION. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A HAPPY ANNOUNCEMENT.
ANNOUNCEMENT? TODAY, MY SON TOOK HIS DRIVER'S TEST.
AND THE THE INSTRUCTOR OR WHOEVER IT WAS WHO GAVE IT TO HIM, SAID THAT SHE HOPES THAT THE THAT THE REST OF HER TESTS THAT SHE GAVE TODAY, THAT SHE'S GOING TO GIVE TODAY WHEN IT'S SMOOTH IS WHEN THAT THAT SHE GAVE HIM.
SO SO I SAID, BOY, HE HE HAS A WAY TO FOOL PEOPLE, DOESN'T HE, YOU KNOW.
NO, HE'S HE'S A VERY GOOD DRIVER. SO IF YOU'LL IF YOU'LL BEAR WITH ME FOR JUST A MINUTE.
SO THE I'D LIKE TO BEGIN WITH THE WITH THE AGENDA.
DO WE HAVE ANY ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS TO THE AGENDA? IF IF NOT, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A PROPOSAL AND THAT'S ON.
ITEM B IS THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS AND THE ITEM F IS THE DISCUSSION WITH HOMESTEADERS. I'D LIKE TO FLIP THOSE SO THAT THE HOMESTEADERS ARE AFTER THE STATE FORESTRY.
AND THE TEXT AMENDMENT IS AFTER THE ROAD NAMING POLICIES.
OH, E I'M YEAH, I'M SORRY, E HE POINTED OUT. I WAS MISREADING THAT.
SO. JUST SWITCH B AND E SO THAT E COMES AND THEN B IS. OKAY. SO DO I HAVE A DO I HAVE A A MOTION? SO MOVED. SECOND. ROLL CALL, MRS. COOK. DOCTOR. JAMIESON. ALL RIGHT, MR. CHAIRMAN.
[A. Presentation - State Forestry Department about the Spongy Moth problem and solutions ]
BUT FIRST, I'D LIKE TO START OUT. DO YOU HAVE A PICTURE OF THAT? THAT SPONGY MOTH HERE WITH ME? NO, THAT WE CAN SEE UP HERE.OH. I'M SORRY, BECAUSE I WAS DOING SOME WORK LAST WEEK, AND I KEPT ON SEEING THESE THINGS, AND PEOPLE WERE CALLING THEM SPIDERS, AND I SAID, WELL, THOSE VARMINTS ARE NOT SPIDERS.
YOU'RE PROBABLY SEEING SPOTTED LANTERNFLY. THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE.
THE LITTLE. THEY'RE THEY'RE BLACK AND THEY'RE TURNING RED NOW.
OH, OKAY. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A A PICTURE READILY AVAILABLE, THAT'S OKAY.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT? WHAT? IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE THEY'VE CHANGED THEIR NAMES.
IF I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK WRONG. ARE THEY BACK IN THE 80S? THEY WERE THE GYPSY MOSS. AND NOW THEY'RE CALLING THEM SPONGY MALTS.
WHY DID THEY CHANGE THE NAMES? I'M AT I DON'T KNOW, I CAN GO INTO THAT.
[00:05:03]
OKAY. I'M JUST CURIOUS. IT'S IT'S NOT. WELL, SO AND THAT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES WE'VE REALLY RUN INTO IN THE PAST THREE YEARS IS THAT PEOPLE DON'T RECOGNIZE THE NAME SPONGY BALL BECAUSE THEY'RE FORMERLY CALLED GYPSY MOTH.AND PROBABLY AROUND THE ROOM, I WOULD SAY SPONGY MOTH.
MOST OF THE PEOPLE HERE PROBABLY DON'T KNOW ABOUT PICKING UP, BUT IF I SAY GYPSY MOTH, THEY PROBABLY REMEMBER FROM THE INFESTATIONS FROM 87, 88, 90 AND REALLY ENDING IN 91 WHEN THEY FIRST MOVED THROUGH THE REGION.
AND WHAT KIND OF TREES DID THOSE KILL? SO THEY'RE PRETTY INDISCRIMINATE.
DEFOLIATION. DEFOLIATION. THEY PREFER OAKS AND IN HICKORIES, MOSTLY UPLAND SPECIES.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR MAP AND THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT I JUST SENT IN, WAS THE LIVE CHAT.
FROM OUR AERIAL SURVEYS, WE SHOULD KNOW. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR MAP.
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR MAP IN YOUR PACKETS YOU COULD SEE BENTONVILLE REALLY GOT HIT HARD LAST YEAR.
THAT IS THE THE WHAT WAS COMPLETELY FOLIATED ARE THE BLUE POLYGONS ON THE MAP.
AND THAT WAS LAST YEAR'S DEFOLIATION. THAT IS TOTAL CANOPY REMOVAL.
EVERY LEAF EATEN BETWEEN MAY AND JUNE. NOW TREES CAN RECOVER FROM THAT.
THE BLUE POLYGON. THE LARGE BLUE POLYGON IN BENTONVILLE WAS NOT TOTALLY, TOTALLY DEFOLIATION.
WE STILL SAW 20 TO 30% CANOPY LOSS IN THAT AREA THIS SPRING.
JUST FOR SOME REFERENCE, 20 TO 30% CANOPY LOSS IN A STAND IS PRETTY DETRIMENTAL.
BUT IT'S NOT HORRIBLE. YOU KNOW, TREES TYPICALLY WILL RECOVER.
AND THEN EVERY AREA IN BETWEEN THOSE BLUE AND THE YELLOW POLYGONS, WE'VE SEEN SPONGY MOTH ACTIVITY.
IT HASN'T BEEN BACK SINCE OR SINCE IN THIS AREA, SINCE 91.
WE GOT RID OF HIM. AND WHAT BROUGHT HIM BACK? SO WE THEY NEVER REALLY, TRULY WENT AWAY. THEY WERE JUST IN VERY, VERY SMALL, UNDETECTABLE LEVELS.
AND THE DROUGHT THE PAST TWO YEARS REALLY SENT THEM INTO OVERDRIVE.
ONE IS ACTUALLY WHAT WE SPRAY ON THEM, WHICH IS BT.
IT'S A BACTERIA, NATURALLY NATURALLY OCCURRING BACTERIA THAT REALLY IT'S IN THE ENVIRONMENT, BUT IT AFFECTS ALL LEAF EATING CATERPILLARS. BT, IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH CORN, IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY'VE GENETICALLY ENGINEERED INTO CORN FOR CORN WEEVILS. IT'S THAT SAME BACTERIA THAT HELPS CONTROL FUNGUS OR SPONGY MOTH.
THERE'S ALSO A FUNGUS WHICH REALLY HELPS CONTROL IT.
AND THERE'S A VIRUS. THE PROBLEM WHEN YOU HAVE SUSTAINED DROUGHT LIKE WE HAVE IN THE PAST TWO YEARS, WE'RE SEEING SMALL EMERGENCES OF THEM IN ISOLATED POCKETS THROUGHOUT THE VALLEY.
AND SO REALLY, TWO YEARS AGO WE SAW THEM AMPING UP.
AND THEN LAST YEAR THEY JUST WENT ABSOLUTELY WILD.
NOW ON THE UPSIDE, WE HAVE SEEN THIS YEAR WITH AS MUCH WET WEATHER.
WE SAW A LOT OF THOSE NATURAL CONTROLS WORKING.
BUT THERE'S STILL A VERY HIGH PREVALENCE IN THEM.
SHENANDOAH AND PAGE COUNTY BOTH HAD SUCCESSFUL SPRAYING DONE.
THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE AND THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE HAS ALSO BEEN SPRAYING TO, YOU KNOW, REDUCE THE POPULATION. REALLY AND THIS IS KIND OF WHY I WAS ASKED HERE.
OUR PROGRAM IS BASICALLY WE CAN GIVE THE COUNTY MONEY IN ORDER THAT YOU ALL CAN GIVE LANDOWNERS MONEY IN ORDER TO GET A SPRAY CONTRACT IN LARGE, BECAUSE IT'S IT'S EXTREMELY DIFFICULT FOR INDIVIDUAL LANDOWNERS TO GET BE ABLE TO COORDINATE A SPRAY CONTRACT BECAUSE WE SPRAY USING AERIAL SPRAYS.
[00:10:07]
MINIMAL 500 ACRES, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE AT EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY HIGH PER ACRE RATE.THE COUNTY BASICALLY HAD SMALLER CONTRACTS WITHIN EACH INDIVIDUAL LANDOWNER, AND THEY WERE ABLE TO BRING THAT COST TO THE COUNTY DOWN TO $40 PER ACRE. NOW, WITH THE FUNDING THAT WE PROVIDED, THE COUNTY WILL WAS ABLE TO PASS ON THAT COST SAVINGS TO $20 PER ACRE IS WHAT THE LANDOWNER IS, WHAT THE COUNTY ACTUALLY ENDED UP CHARGING LANDOWNERS.
WOW. SO, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY IS A VIABLE OPTION IF THERE IS A NEED, WHICH IN WARREN, I THINK THERE IS DEFINITELY STILL PROBABLY GOING TO BE A NEED FOR TREATMENT OVER THE NEXT, YOU KNOW, YEAR, MAYBE 2 OR 3 YEARS.
SHENANDOAH COUNTY HAS HIRED A PART TIME EMPLOYEE.
FORMER COUNTY EMPLOYEE. BASICALLY JUST BROUGHT HIM OUT OF RETIREMENT PART TIME TO DO IT.
PAGE COUNTY ACTUALLY DESIGNATED ONE OF THEIR ALREADY CURRENT EMPLOYEES AND JUST ADDED ON.
PAGE COUNTY HAD EIGHT PEOPLE GET SPRAYED A TOTAL OF 2000 ACRES.
AND IT WAS ALSO VERY SIMILAR COST RATE. FREDERICK COUNTY.
AND THIS IS THE ONLY REASON I BRING THIS UP ON FREDERICK COUNTY.
AND SO FREDERICK WAS NOT ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE PROGRAM THIS YEAR.
MUCH TO THEIR DETRIMENT. BUT IT'S JUST IT'S AVAILABLE.
AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TONIGHT IS JUST TO LET YOU ALL KNOW THAT THIS ISN'T THIS IS A PROCESS.
WE ARE ABSOLUTELY WILLING TO HELP, BUT SOMEONE'S GOT TO ACTUALLY DEVELOP THE PROGRAM FOR YOU.
FOR YOU ALL. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS DO YOU ALL HAVE? I'M SURE THERE'S A LOT. YES, SIR. COORDINATOR AND AGENDA COUNCILOR GARY.
MARSDEN IS THE COUNTY AS THE COUNTY COORDINATOR IN PAGE COUNTY.
JESSE'S REGULAR JOB, AND I MEAN, IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE AN OUTDOORSY PERSON AT ALL.
TESTING HIS REGULAR JOB IS SHE'S BASICALLY THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATORS, US ASSISTANT, YOU KNOW, EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT. SO DO THEY DO THEY PUT A NOTICE OUT? WELL, YES. YEAH. SO WE WE DID WE DID. BASICALLY, I'VE BEEN GETTING A LOT OF PHONE CALLS.
WE'VE BEEN MAINTAINING LISTS WHEN PEOPLE ARE SHOWING INTEREST.
YOU HAVE A LIST? YES. I DO HAVE A LIST OF INTERESTED PERSONS.
AND WARREN COUNTY, THE LIST IN WARREN RIGHT NOW IS ABOUT 20 INDIVIDUALS.
JUST SAYING, HEY, THIS PROGRAM IS GOING TO BE AVAILABLE AND IF YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED, AND THEY HAD MY NUMBER LISTED AND GARY YEO'S CONTACT INFORMATION IN IT.
AND THAT WAS KIND OF THE OUTREACH AS FAR AS OUTREACH.
A LOT OF IT COMES THROUGH OUR DEPARTMENT BECAUSE IF PEOPLE ARE HAVING ISSUES WITH THEIR TREES WERE WHO, YOU KNOW, THEY CALL THE AND ONE OF THE REASONS WE ENDED UP GOING WITH NEEDING A COUNTY COORDINATOR INSTEAD OF US DOING IT OURSELVES IS JUST THE AMOUNT OF WORK VOLUME AND TYING TOGETHER.
I MEAN, GARY IS THE KIND OF EXTREME EXAMPLE WITH THAT MANY LANDOWNERS, I JUST DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO CONTACT AND CONTRACT WITH THAT MANY LANDOWNERS, WITH ALL OF MY DUTIES. IT JUST IT'S IT'S INFEASIBLE WITH ME COVERING THREE COUNTIES AND STILL HAVING TO FIGHT FIRE.
DO LAW ENFORCEMENT AND BE THE FORESTER. IT WAS JUST TOO MUCH.
AND SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS. AND WE KIND OF MODELED OUR PROGRAM OFF OF THE VDA PROGRAM.
FEDEX OR THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE ALSO DOES HAVE DOES ALSO HAVE A SUPPRESSION PROGRAM.
VDA HAS NEVER ACTUALLY HAD IT HAD TO EXERCISE THEIR SUPPRESSION PROGRAM.
[00:15:04]
SO ALL OF THEIR GENERAL ASSEMBLY FUNDS HAD BEEN GOING IN TO STOP THE SPREAD WHICH IS WHAT WAS DONE EXTENSIVELY HERE DURING THE 90S AND WAS FAIRLY SUCCESSFUL AT READING IT. NOW, IS IT ACTUALLY STOPPING TO SPREAD IT? THEY'RE HAVING FAIRLY GOOD SUCCESS IN SOUTHWEST VIRGINIA, BUT THAT'S WHERE ALL THE FUNDS FOR VDA WAS.IT'S JUST THAT'S GOING TO BE MORE FOR INDIVIDUAL TREES AND YARDS, NOT NECESSARILY ACREAGE TRACKS.
AND I THINK IN MY WRONG THAT HE SAID HE WOULD BE KIND OF A RESOURCE TO MESS UP IF WE DECIDE.
AND ABSOLUTELY. AND EVEN FOR HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU, YOU KNOW, IN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT ARE YOU ALL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO TO DESIGNATE? GARY HAS MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT HE IS WILLING TO HELP.
AND THIS IS THE PROCESS I'VE TAKEN. PERFECT PERSON.
YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. CHEAP, CHEAP YO IS AWESOME.
ALSO LORI CHAMBERLIN, OUR FOREST HEALTH PROGRAM MANAGER.
SHE IS MORE THAN WILLING TO TALK ANYONE THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
SHE JUST. SHE'S ON VACATION. SO IS GARY. SO IS MY SUPERVISOR THERE.
EVERYONE'S ON VACATION IN JULY. SO, NO, I I'VE HAD SEVERAL CONVERSATIONS WITH HER AS WELL, AND SHE WAS VERY HELPFUL. YEAH, I THINK SHE HELPED PUT ME IN YOUR DIRECTION AS WELL.
AS THE GUYS DOWN AT THE STATE PARK, AND, AND I KNOW I JUST GAVE YOU, I THINK, 12 PEOPLE TO ADD TO YOUR LIST THAT I'VE HAD REACH OUT TO ME JUST IN THE LAST 24 HOURS. I'VE, I'VE PUT IT OUT THERE AND I KNOW SOUTH DISTRICT HAS BEEN HIT, BUT I WOULDN'T GO SO FAR AS TO SAY THAT THE OTHERS MAYBE AS WELL. IT'S JUST NOT IT WAS REALLY NOTICEABLE.
YEAH. BEN BENTONVILLE, IT'S BEEN VERY NOTICEABLE.
BROWNTOWN AREA. I'VE ALSO I HAVE SEEN I ALSO DID SEE FEEDING CATERPILLARS IN LINDEN.
I WAS NOT SEEN NORTH OF LINDEN. KIND OF. I GUESS IT'S LINDEN MOUNTAIN AREA.
I DID SEE CATERPILLARS FEEDING UP THERE. I WAS NOT SEEING DEFOLIATION, BUT IT'S DEFINITELY AN AREA WILL WANT TO WATCH FOR THIS UPCOMING YEAR AND DO EGG MASS SURVEYS. SOME OF THE LANGUAGE IN THERE WITH EGG MASS SURVEYS.
EGG MASS SURVEYS ARE NOT MADE TO BE COMPLICATED.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I REALLY LIKE ABOUT WHAT WE'VE DONE WITH OUR PROGRAM, IF YOU GET A POSITIVE SURVEY THAT MEETS THE THRESHOLD FOR TREATMENT, THAT CAN SERVE AS THAT SURVEY FOR THE SURROUNDING FIVE MILE ERROR RATE, YOU KNOW, FIVE MILE RADIUS.
THAT REALLY CUTS DOWN ON THE ACTUAL AMOUNT OF WORK AND SURVEYS THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE DONE.
BECAUSE IF THERE'S. IF THERE'S ENOUGH TO MEET THE THRESHOLD IN THAT AREA WITHIN FIVE MILES, THERE'S OTHER AREAS THAT ARE GOING TO MEET THAT THRESHOLD AS WELL.
IS IT GOING TO BE UNIFORM ACROSS THAT? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE THERE. AND REALLY, WE'RE HOPING IN THE NEXT 2 TO 3 YEARS TO KIND OF STAMP THIS CURRENT INFESTATION OUT BETWEEN THE NATURAL CONTROLS AND THEN WITH SPRAYING BT K, WHICH BT K, LIKE I SAID, IS ONE OF THE NATURAL CONTROLS.
WE JUST WE AMP IT UP, WE MAGNIFY IT. INCREASINGLY I USE BT ON MY OWN FRUIT TREES THIS SPRING.
WE HAD TENT CATERPILLARS EVERY YEAR THAT DESTROY THE APPLE TREES AND IT WORKED LIKE A CHARM.
JUST ONE TREATMENT. AND AFTER A DAY THERE WERE NO MORE CATERPILLARS.
YEAH. SO? SO WHEN DO WE NEED THE TIMELINE TO GET THIS ROLLING TO MEET THE GRANT.
YEAH. SO GRANT DEADLINE IS TYPICALLY MARCH OF EVERY YEAR.
NOW, THE GRANT CHANGES YEAR TO YEAR, BUT I WOULD SAY THEY ARE LAYING EGG MASSES NOW.
TYPICALLY FOLKS WILL START DOING EGG MASS SURVEYS IN SEPTEMBER AS WHEN WE TYPICALLY SEE THEM.
BUT TYPICALLY SEPTEMBER IS KIND OF WHEN THE THE LEGWORK STARTS.
[00:20:04]
AND THEN. USUALLY AS FAR AS HAVING THE CONTRACT TOGETHER, ALL THE LANDOWNERS IN PLACE TO TAKE A CONTRACT TO A SPRING CONTRACTOR SUCH AS SUMMIT, USUALLY MIDDLE OF MARCH, WHICH IS WHY OUR GRANT DEADLINE IS MARCH 5TH.SO NOW, NOT HAVING READ THROUGH ALL THIS CRITERIA, THE AREA THAT YOU YOU SPRAYED THE STATE PARK AND I KNOW THE FOREST GEORGE WASHINGTON NATIONAL FOREST WAS GOING TO SPRAY THAT RIDGE.
DOES THAT AUTOMATICALLY PUT A FIVE MILE RADIUS AROUND? SO DO WE HAVE TO DO THE MATH CHECK THERE? WELL, SO THE AP MATH SURVEYS HAVE TO BE REDONE EVERY YEAR.
OKAY. IT'S JUST TRYING TO CUT DOWN ON THE NUMBER THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE EVERY YEAR.
THERE'S EGG MASSES THERE. WE KNOW IT. REALLY, WHAT WERE THE QUESTIONS ON EGG MASS SURVEYS AND THE NUMBERS WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO SEE NEXT YEAR? I'M REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT IN BETWEEN THE WHERE THE BLUE POLYGON IN AND THE YELLOW IS KIND OF THE GAPS IN THAT AREA.
AND I'M ALSO REALLY CURIOUS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO FIND NORTH IN LONDON, BECAUSE WE WE'VE SEEN THEM UP THERE, BUT WE HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH. BUT TYPICALLY WHAT HAPPENS WITH SPONGY MOTH OUTBREAKS IS THEY'RE VERY LOW LEVELS AND THEY GET TO A DETECTABLE LEVEL.
THEN THEY KIND OF EXPLODE. AND THAT'S KIND OF OVER THE COURSE OF THREE YEARS.
I DIDN'T SEE ANY IN LONDON LAST YEAR LIKE AT ALL THIS YEAR I SAW A NUMBER OF THEM.
SO NEXT YEAR WILL PROBABLY BE THE OUTBREAK HERE IN THAT AREA.
SOUNDS LIKE WE GOT OUR WORK CUT OUT FOR US. YEAH, I MEAN IT'S YEAH.
AND IT YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE DO GET CONCERNED.
WELL. ALL RIGHT. MY TREES WERE ALREADY IMPACTED THIS YEAR.
WHY WOULD I SPRAY? WELL, YOUR TREES ARE GOING TO RECOVER.
MOST LARGE, MATURE TREES CAN WITHSTAND ONE, EVEN TWO EARLY SEASON DEFOLIATION EVENTS.
BY THE TIME YOU GET TO THREE, YOU'RE LOOKING AT.
ALL RIGHT. NOW WE'RE INTO THE 75% SURVIVAL RATE.
IF THEY GET A FOURTH DEFOLIATION, THEN THE THEN YOU'RE PROBABLY LOSING YOUR STAND.
BUT IN GENERAL. YEAH. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ME? YEAH. WITH THIS PROGRAM IS IT YOU'RE NOT JUST GOING TO TARGET CERTAIN AREAS.
YOU'RE GOING TO GO ACROSS THE WHOLE. YES. SO OKAY.
YEAH. SO ANY ANYONE ANYONE IN THE COUNTY WHO REACHES OUT TO YOUR ALL SPONGY MOTH COORDINATOR.
OKAY. COULD BE ELIGIBLE AS LONG AS THERE IS A NEED FOR IT.
BUT THEY DON'T NEED TO BE CONTIGUOUS TO. NO, NO, IT DOES NOT IN THEIR OWN ISLAND.
NO. THEY HAVE THE PROBLEM. NO. AND SOME OF THE, SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT GARY AND TESSIE WERE RUNNING INTO WITH THE CONTRACTORS IS ACREAGE SIZE. SO, YOU KNOW, A QUARTER ACRE LOT OUT HERE BY ITSELF.
THE CONTRACTOR SAID, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS KIND OF UNDERSTANDABLE.
WHERE THEY DID HAVE SOME SUCCESS WITH THOSE QUARTER ACRE LOTS DOING OUTREACH WITH HOA'S AND GETTING MORE OR LESS AN HOA CONTRACT INSTEAD OF INDIVIDUAL CONTRACTS ON BOARD.
DOCTOR JAMISON, DID YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? WELL, THIS IS ALL LAST YEAR'S, RIGHT? YES, YES, THIS IS THIS IS LAST YEAR'S PROPOSAL.
LAURIE WE HAVE NOT PUT OUT OUR OUR REQUESTS THIS YEAR.
OUR ACTUAL FORMAL REQUEST WILL PROBABLY COME OUT IN DECEMBER, BUT THE PROGRAM WILL WORK VERY, VERY SIMILARLY. OKAY. I ALSO WANTED TO NOTE THAT JUST FOR EVERYBODY'S INFORMATION, THIS REQUIRES PUBLIC RELATIONS ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING NOTIFICATION OF PROPERTY OWNERS AND PROPOSED TREATMENT AREAS AND BUFFER ZONES.
SO THIS IS THERE'S ACTUALLY THAT'S A CHORE. I MEAN, I'M JUST SAYING IT'S ACTUALLY MORE THAN THE PEOPLE INVOLVED WITH THE LAND, RIGHT? IT'S THE WHOLE COMMUNITY. WELL, I KNOW THAT THE HELICOPTER IS GOING TO BE OVER THERE SPRAYING AND.
[00:25:06]
THE NEWSPAPER AND SAYING THE COUNTY IS GOING TO BE UNDERTAKING THIS PROGRAM.OKAY. AND THEN JUST ONE MORE. THE LOCALITY MUST CONTACT HOSPITALS, EMERGENCY CENTERS, FIRE STATIONS, POLICE DEPARTMENTS, EMERGENCY RESCUE SQUADS, AND OR EMERGENCY SERVICES COORDINATOR TO INFORM THEM OF THE PLANNED SPREE ACTIVITIES.
SO THIS PERSON THAT WE NEED TO CONTRACT WITH OR HIRE IS, IS THEY HAVE QUITE A JOB TO DO.
I MEAN, WHETHER IT'S AGRICULTURAL, FIRE, LAW ENFORCEMENT SUMMIT IS WHO THEY HAVE BEEN USING HERE LOCALLY. THEY'RE BASED OUT OF PENNSYLVANIA AND THEY'VE BEEN MAKING ALL THOSE CONTACTS FOR THE COUNTY.
BUT YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. THOSE THINGS DO HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED.
DO I HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? SO IS THERE AN INTEREST IN PURSUING THIS? YES. VERY GOOD. I THINK IT'S IT'S. YOU KNOW, I KNOW THEY SPRAYED THE STATE PARK.
BUT IF YOU DON'T, IF YOU DON'T SPRAY, IT'S LIKE ANYTHING.
YOU GET ANTS IN ONE KITCHEN WINDOW. AND IF YOU ONLY SPRAY THAT ONE, THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO THE OTHER, THE COUNTER AND BE IN THE OTHER WINDOW. SO THE ONLY WAY IS TO HIT THEM WHERE THEY ARE.
EVERYWHERE THEY ARE. YEAH. AND I KNOW THEY, THEY DID THAT BACK IN THE, THE 80S AND THE 90S.
AND YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THERE WAS ANY FALLOUT FROM THAT.
BUT AND, YOU KNOW, FROM A, YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT, YOU KNOW, BTK IS AN INDISCRIMINATE KILLER OF CATERPILLARS.
LIKE IT JUST IS, YOU KNOW? SO IT IS GOING TO KNOCK OUT THOSE BENEFICIAL CATERPILLARS, THE NATIVES.
THE UPSIDE IS GENERALLY ONE YEAR OF ONE YEAR'S LOSS OF NATIVE CATERPILLARS IN AN AREA IS MUCH LESS DETRIMENTAL THAN TO LOSING ENTIRE CANOPY COVER, WHICH IS KIND OF WHAT SPONGY MOTH DOES.
AND THEY THEY REALLY ARE. AND SO I'VE GOT I'VE HAD A LOT OF PHONE CALLS WITH LANDOWNERS, ZEPP BENTONVILLE THIS PAST YEAR AND, AND THIS YEAR WHERE THE TERM BIBLICAL PLAGUE WAS USED ON THE TELEPHONE WITH ME.
BECAUSE IF YOU'VE NEVER SEEN A SPONGY MOTH OUTBREAK IN FULL FORM, IT IS ABSOLUTELY NUTS.
AND TWO WEEKS INTO THAT, THE TREES ARE ABSOLUTELY STRIPPED FROM CANOPY TO I MEAN, IF THEY WEREN'T SO DESTRUCTIVE, THEY'D BE EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY IMPRESSIVE AT HOW EFFICIENTLY THEY CAN STRIP A FOREST OF EVERYTHING GREEN.
I WAS AMAZED I WAS WALKING ALONG THE ROAD NEAR MY HOUSE AND PICKING UP TRASH AND I COULDN'T.
YEAH, IT WAS TOTALLY AMAZING. AND THEY HAVE, THANK GOODNESS FOR THE RAINS THAT HAVE COME.
COME BACK OUT. NOT ANYTHING LIKE THEY SHOULD BE THIS TIME OF YEAR, BUT THE WHOLE MASSIVE MOUNTAINSIDE WAS DEFOLIATION LAST YEAR. THAT ONE WHOLE SIDE IT IT WAS REALLY SAD.
AND TO THINK THAT WE COULD LOSE THAT MANY TREES IS JUST HEARTBREAKING.
IT'S NOT GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT EITHER. YEAH.
AND IF YOU ALL HAVE, YOU KNOW, MORE QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, PLEASE DON'T HESITATE TO REACH OUT.
MRS. COLLARS HAS HAS MY CONTACT INFORMATION. I'M.
THE AGENCY ALSO MAKES IT EXTREMELY EASY TO FIND ME ON MY WEBSITE OR ON OUR WEBSITE.
IF YOU FIND A FORESTER, YOU'LL GET MY CELL PHONE AND EMAIL ADDRESS.
SO I AM MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER MORE QUESTIONS AS THEY ARRIVE.
I APPRECIATE YOU COMING OUT TONIGHT. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
SO NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS THE HOMESTEADERS ON RELIANCE ROAD, MR.
[E. Discussion - Homesteaders on Reliance Road - Matt Wendling ]
WENDLING. WE BELIEVE THEY PROVIDED US WITH THIS POWERPOINT.SO IF YOU WANT TO GO UP, IF YOU WANT TO FLIP THROUGH IT, YOU'RE WELCOME TO.
[00:30:02]
AND THEN I'LL PRESENT THE COUNTING PART OF IT.OKAY. AND LET'S SEE HERE. YEAH. THERE YOU GO.
THERE YOU GO. OKAY. OKAY. SO WE JUST WANTED TO PROVIDE YOU ALL WITH AN UPDATE.
SO I PUT THEM ON TO GET STARTED THIS MORNING.
WE NEED TO SPEAK INTO. I JUST WANT TO CAPTURE YOU HERE.
OKAY. WE JUST WANTED TO PROVIDE YOU ALL WITH AN UPDATE.
SINCE WE HAVE KIND OF BEEN UPDATED OURSELVES AS TO EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON.
OOPS. SO ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT WE DID AFTER OUR PUBLIC MEETING, WAS A MEETING WITH THE PARKS AND REC. AND SO LEADING UP TO THIS MEETING, WE WERE GIVEN AN EMAIL THAT HAD A SERIES OF QUESTIONS THAT THEY WERE INTERESTED IN US ANSWERING, BASICALLY TO START WRITING THE CONTRACT AND THE RESERVATION FORM.
SO DID YOU KNOW THE PACKETS? BUT I CAN. OKAY.
SO WE HAVE PACKETS HERE BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY ANSWERED ALL OF THOSE QUESTIONS.
THAT THEY HAD EMAILED US. AND WE PASSED IT OUT TO PARKS AND REC DURING THAT MEETING.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE WEREN'T REALLY ABLE TO GO OVER ANY OF OUR ANSWERS BECAUSE THAT MEETING TURNED INTO SOMETHING ELSE WHERE WE WERE BEING ENCOURAGED TO FIND A DIFFERENT LOCATION. SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ALL HAVE THE ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS THAT PARKS AND REC ASKED, BECAUSE WE ANSWERED THEM VERY CLEARLY. AND THEN WE ALSO GAVE OUR SUGGESTIONS AT WHAT THESE RESERVATION FORMS SHOULD LOOK LIKE.
AND THAT'S BASED OFF OF OTHER COUNTY'S FARMERS MARKET, OUR OWN FARMERS MARKET, RESERVING THE STADIUMS AND THE LITTLE WHAT ARE THEY CALLED, PICNIC TABLES AT PARKS. IT'S KIND OF THE SAME IDEA.
WE'VE ALSO BEEN WORKING ON GATHERING VOLUNTEERS, AND WE'VE BEEN REALLY SUCCESSFUL WITH THAT. SO WE HAVE MORE VOLUNTEERS THAT ARE KIND OF SITTING IN THE WINGS, WAITING AND READY TO ASSIST WITH THE GROUNDWORK ONCE WE GET THE GREEN LIGHT JUST TO GO AHEAD AND START.
WE'VE BEEN SPREADING THE WORD IN JUST THREE MONTHS. WE'VE GAINED 300 MEMBERS, AND WE HAVE A PRETTY LARGE PRESENCE ALREADY IN OUR COMMUNITY, WHICH IS REALLY EXCITING. WE'VE BEEN ACTIVELY ENGAGING AND EXPANDING OUR GROUP, AND WE'VE HAD OUR COMMUNITY MEETINGS.
OUR FIRST ONE WAS AT SOUTH RIVER FARM, WHICH IS A NEW PROMINENT FARM IN OUR COUNTY.
SO THAT WAS REALLY WONDERFUL TO COLLABORATE WITH THEM.
WE'VE BEEN LISTENING TO OTHER PEOPLE'S IDEAS AND LIKE YOU HAD MENTIONED, MISS COLORS TO REALLY GAIN, YOU KNOW, MOMENTUM AND HAVE LIKE A WORKING COMMITTEE.
WE NOW HAVE ADDITIONAL PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF US THAT HAVE STEPPED FORWARD AND HAVE SAID, HEY, WE'D LOVE TO HELP. THIS IS A WONDERFUL IDEA. SO WE HAVE MORE THAT HAVE JOINED US ON THE OFFICIAL SIDE OF THINGS.
WE'VE ALSO TAKEN THE TIME TO REALLY DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE AND RESEARCH.
SO THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERN THAT SOME OF SOME OF YOU THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS A RUSHED PROJECT.
WELL, IT IS NOT ANY LONGER. SO WE HAVE REALLY DONE OUR DUE DILIGENCE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDERSTAND EVERY LEGAL ASPECT, EVERY HURDLE THAT WE HAVE BEEN APPROACHED WITH.
AND WE ARE GOING TO GO THROUGH SOME OF THAT TONIGHT.
SO SOME OF OUR COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIPS AND OUR CURRENT COLLABORATIONS INCLUDE THE SOUTH RIVER FARMS. THEY HOSTED OUR FIRST HOMESTEADERS OF WARREN COUNTY MEETING, AND THIS WAS A COMMUNITY WIDE, COUNTY WIDE EVENT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
WE HAVE ALSO JOINED FORCES WITH THE FRONT ROYAL AND WARREN COUNTY TREE STEWARDS.
WE ARE GOING TO BE JOINING THEM IN OUR SECOND ANNUAL GARDENS AND HOMESTEADS TOUR.
SO THE COMMUNITY IS GOING TO THIS WILL BE ANNOUNCED PUBLICLY.
WE HAVE ROBERT DE GREENS, THE WARREN HERITAGE SOCIETY, SMITTY'S TREE SERVICE, OAK BEAR FARM, THE FORK FARM, WILLOW COTTAGE HOMESTEAD. AND THEN JUST TODAY WE GOT A COLLABORATION FROM THE LOOSE COW MERCANTILE.
WE WILL BE DOING OUR NEXT MEETING WITH THEM, WHICH IS A NEW ARTISAN SHOP IN TOWN.
[00:35:02]
SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR INTENTIONS REMAIN INTACT.SO WE WANT TO REMIND YOU ALL OF OUR GOAL AND WHAT OUR GOAL IS FOR THE HOMESTEADERS, THE FARMERS AND THE OVERALL COMMUNITY, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT THAT TO GET LOST IN SORT OF EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S GOING ON.
SO WE'VE BEEN QUESTIONED ABOUT THE BUSINESS MODEL.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS CALLED A CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM.
AND IF ANY OF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GARDENING, IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO PERMACULTURE.
AND SO IN THAT ENVIRONMENT, THIS PICTURE IS A LITTLE BUSY BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT GOING ON.
BUT YOU CAN SEE THE BLACK ARROWS AND ALL OF THE LINES AND HOW THIS ENVIRONMENT IS THRIVING.
AND I WANT YOU TO THINK OF THIS GARDEN AS OUR COUNTY.
AND SO WHEN YOU KEEP EVERYTHING HERE, A CLOSED LOOP BUSINESS MODEL IS BASED ON A SET OF DESIGN PRINCIPLES THAT ENCOURAGES SUSTAINABILITY, AND IT ALSO PROVIDES RESILIENCE TO ECONOMIC PITFALLS.
SO AT ANY POINT IN TIME IN OUR COUNTRY, WE COULD HAVE A DISRUPTION IN FOOD CHAIN DELIVERY.
THIS IDEA ALIGNS WITH THE CONCEPT OF PERMACULTURE AND COMMUNITIES BECOME MORE SELF-RELIANT.
SO INSTEAD OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, SHOPPING AT WALMART, IF THEY'RE SHOPPING WITH THEIR LOCAL FARMERS, WE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PUT THAT GOOD AND THAT MONEY BACK INTO OUR COUNTY.
A CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM HAS A STRONG FOCUS ON LOCAL RESOURCES AND COLLABORATION WITH COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIPS, SO THIS WILL STRONGLY BENEFIT THE OVERALL LOCAL COMMUNITY BY KEEPING EVERYTHING HERE.
SO, YOU KNOW, TALKING, YOU KNOW, FOLLOWING THE FORESTRY DEPARTMENT.
WE WANT TO BE THE CHANGE THE CHANGE IN THE ENVIRONMENT. WE WANT TO BE THE CHANGE IN AGRICULTURE.
AND SO THIS IS A ONE OF A KIND REVOLUTIONARY IDEA.
NOTHING LIKE THIS EXISTS IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, BUT IT'S REVOLUTIONARY IN THE RIGHT WAY.
WE WANT TO BE THE INNOVATORS AND THE LEADERS THAT BRINGS OUR COMMUNITY TOGETHER.
THAT'S THE TOWN, THE COUNTY, THE MAKERS, THE CREATORS, THE FARMERS, EVERYBODY THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH AGRICULTURE AND CONNECTING THEM TO THE CITIZENS OF THE COUNTY. SO BY MAKING FARM PRODUCE PRODUCTS EASILY ACCESSIBLE ALL YEAR ROUND WILL BENEFIT OUR LOCAL FARMERS.
WE HAVE TWO NEW STORES THAT HAVE POPPED UP IN TOWN RECENTLY THAT SELL FARM GOODS PER SE.
THEY DON'T USE LOCAL FARMERS. THEY'RE DRIVING TO PENNSYLVANIA.
SO THEY WENT APPROACHED. THEY DID NOT WANT TO PARTNER WITH LOCAL FARMS. SO THIS, AGAIN, IS GOING TO BE A PRODUCT OR A PROJECT THAT REALLY SUPPORTS THE LOCAL HOMESTEADERS AND FARMERS.
AND SO THE MCCAY HOMESTEAD WAS A PROMINENT HOMESTEAD IN OUR COUNTY, AND THEY WERE RECOGNIZED BY SUPPLYING A LOT OF THE PRODUCE TO THE CITIZENS OF THE COUNTY DURING THAT TIME. OKAY. SO ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT WAS BROUGHT UP AT THE LAST MEETING WE'VE JUST DIVED IN A LITTLE WE DIDN'T SEE A TON IN THE AGENDA PACKET THAT GAVE PICTURES AND ADDRESSED IT.
SO WE JUST WANTED TO GIVE SOME FACTS THAT WE FOUND.
THAT IT HAS THERE'S ANOTHER SLIDE THAT WILL SHOW IT, BUT THERE IS CURRENTLY A CURB ON THE EASTERN SIDE OF THE ENTRANCE, AS WELL AS A GUTTER. AND IT IS PAVED WITH THE SAME ROAD AS RELIANCE.
AND IT'S FOR THE SAFETY BENEFITS. RELIANCE ROAD IS A NO THROUGH TRUCKS ALLOWED. SO THAT WILL HELP KEEP THINGS SAFE. THE TRAFFIC WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE MINIMAL.
YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BIG BOX TRUCKS GOING DOWN THAT ROAD AS A CUT THROUGH, HOPEFULLY.
AND THEN WE FOUND WE DID NOT REALIZE THIS, BUT THERE IS EXISTING SHIP GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN THE PROPERTY FOR WHERE ALL OF THE PRIOR TRAILERS SAT. SO IF YOU WERE TO PULL UP SOME OF THE GRASS YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE'S TORN CHIP AND THEN GRAVEL ON TOP.
I'M NOT SURE HOW GREAT OF A CONDITION IT IS, BUT IT IS THERE.
WE HAD RECEIVED SOME OF VDOT COMMENTS, SO THESE ARE VDOT COMMENTS VERSUS WHAT IS ALREADY THERE.
THE CURRENT ENTRANCE IS SITTING A LITTLE BIT FURTHER.
THEY'RE AT ABOUT 280, BUT IT IS APPROXIMATE TO 320 PREFERRED IF IT WERE TO GO TO 320.
[00:40:04]
IT WOULD NOT BE. IT WOULD BE NOT IN THE RIGHT OF WAY.THE ENTRANCE CURRENTLY IS 37FT WIDE. THEY WOULD LIKE 20FT WIDE.
AND THEN THIS IS JUST A PICTURES OF THE ENTRANCE SHOWING SOME OF THESE THINGS.
THIS IS ALSO SHOWING THE WHERE THE CURRENT ROAD IS VERSUS OR PULL IN IS VERSUS WHERE IT WOULD BE TO BE AT 320FT. AND THEN I'M ENDING THIS WITH A REALLY GOOD QUOTE THAT I LIKE BY JOEL SALATIN, WHO IS VERY WELL KNOWN AND LIKED YOU AS A FOOD BUYER, HAVE THE DISTINCT PRIVILEGE OF PROACTIVELY PARTICIPATING IN SHAPING THE WORLD YOUR CHILD WILL INHERIT.
SO THERE YOU GO. THERE WE GO. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THAT UPDATE.
YEP. ONE ONE LAST QUESTION. SINCE YOUR MEETING WITH PARKS AND REC, HAVE YOU BEEN IN COMMUNICATION WITH ANYBODY ELSE? WITH THE COUNTY? JUST TIFFANY WITH PARKS AND REC.
THAT'S IT. YEAH. WE'RE WAITING FOR HER. YEAH.
SHE HAD TWO WEEKS WHERE SHE WAS COMPLETELY TIED UP WITH OTHER OBLIGATIONS.
WHERE ARE YOU LEFT OFF? OKAY. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU.
WELL, SO THIS IS KIND OF WHAT WE'RE HOPING IS THAT IF THE CITIZENS INVEST IN US AND BELIEVE IN US AND WE HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO GROW, MORE THAN THAT WILL HELP KIND OF ROUND OUT ALL THE EDGES.
IF WE HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE SHOWING AN INTEREST IN LOCALLY GROWN PRODUCE, THE SKY'S THE LIMIT. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE 280 VERSUS 320FT.
SO 328 IT SAID WAS PREFERRED BY VDOT. DID YOU SAY THAT 280 MATCHES THE CURRENT RIGHT OF WAY.
BUT IF YOU WENT TO 320, YOU'D BE OUTSIDE OF THE CURRENT RIGHT OF WAY.
IS THAT RIGHT? CORRECT. OKAY. SO IS THERE SOME THINKING ON WHAT WOULD HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THOSE THOSE TWO THINGS? IS VDOT A LITTLE BIT FLEXIBLE LIKE THEY SAY PREFERRED BUT NOT REQUIRED.
OR IS THERE ANYTHING YOU CAN DO TO GET A LITTLE CLOSER BUT STILL BE WITHIN THE RIGHT OF WAY? SO I'VE READ THROUGH THEIR APPENDIX. I HAVE READ THROUGH THEIR WEBSITE.
IT HAS I'VE FOUND THINGS INSINUATE THAT I'VE REACHED OUT TO VDOT FOR THE LAST MONTH, AND I'VE UNFORTUNATELY NOT HEARD BACK, SO I CANNOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION. I WOULD LOVE TO SPEAK WITH THEM AND GET THAT THOUGH.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROCESS IS. IT DOES SAY IN THERE THAT THERE ARE THEY DO WAIVE THINGS AND THERE ARE MULTIPLE DIFFERENT TIMES THAT THEY CONSIDER THAT IT DOES SEEM LIKE THIS WOULD BE ONE PER APPENDIX F, BUT AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO.
OKAY. AND IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S A RECOMMENDATION.
AND SO A RECOMMENDATION CAN BE INTERPRETED AS THIS IS WHAT WE RECOMMEND, BUT IT'S NOT REQUIRED.
OKAY. SO YEAH I HAVE INTERPRETATION IN THERE AS WELL.
SO. OKAY. AND DO YOU KNOW THE 320 REQUIREMENT FROM VDOT OR PREFERENCE FROM VDOT? IS THAT BASED ON, LIKE, A FULL SCALE COMMERCIAL ENTRANCE OR LIKE A LOW VOLUME? IT'S MODERATE. SO IT'S A MODERATE ENTRANCE TO ACCOMMODATE 50 TO 500 VEHICLES.
OKAY. AND WE DON'T ANTICIPATE THAT. AND WE COULD CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, QUALIFY AS A LOW ENTRANCE SITE. BUT BECAUSE RELIANCE ROAD IS CONSIDERED A COLLECTOR ROAD, THEY'RE THEY'RE JUST TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION.
IT'S NOT. NO, I GOT VERIFICATION. IT'S NOT. WHAT IS IT? IT'S A LOCAL ROAD. OH, IT'S A LOCAL ROAD. SO THAT MIGHT CHANGE THINGS TOO. SO BASICALLY I THINK VDOT IS TAKING EVERYTHING INTO CONSIDERATION.
AND I THINK, MATT, YOU HAD RECOMMENDED THAT IT BE A MODERATE ENTRANCE.
RIGHT. THAT WAS INITIALLY COMING FROM VDOT. AND WHEN I GIVE MY REPORT I'LL, I'LL.
SO THERE COULD BE OPPORTUNITY. WE DON'T ANTICIPATE 50 CARS GOING IN THERE PER DAY WHATSOEVER,
[00:45:04]
ANYTIME INITIALLY. AND THAT WOULD CHANGE THINGS.YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS, LIKE THE DISTANCE THAT THE, THE ENTRANCE NEEDED TO BE AND WHATNOT.
YEAH. BUT AGAIN, IT'S A RECOMMENDATION. AND, YOU KNOW, FROM THE RESEARCH THAT WE HAVE DONE THERE WOULD BE OTHER ISSUES IF WE WERE TO MOVE THAT ENTRANCE THAT WE FEEL LIKE VDOT SHOULD BE MADE AWARE OF.
ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, WITH FLOOD ZONES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. YEAH.
YEAH. BUT WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IS YOU BEING HELD TO AN UNREASONABLY HIGH EXPECTATION THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR LIKE A FAMILY DOLLAR OR A TOUR OR A COMMERCIAL ENTRANCE THAT SEES A LOT OF EMPLOYEE TRAFFIC AND SEMI TRUCKS COMING IN AND OUT.
BUT THIS IS WITH NO DISRESPECT OR SLIGHT INTENT.
THIS IS CLOSER TO A LEMONADE STAND. WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? CORRECT? YES. YES.
SO. YEAH. OKAY. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. I WANT TO CHECK WITH MAJOR WINNER TATE TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT YOUR COMMENT ABOUT THE. IT'S A NO THROUGH ROAD THAT THERE WON'T BE BIG TRUCKS GOING AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A LITTLE WHILE. NO.
THROUGH TRUCKS. IF I'M CORRECT, MEANS YOU JUST CAN'T INDISCRIMINATELY TAKE A BIG TRUCK THROUGH.
I GUESS I DIDN'T SAY A LOT ENOUGH. I DID SAY THERE SHOULD BE NO THROUGH TRUCKS JUST GOING.
I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW I JUST SAID IT, BUT IT'S WELL, I JUST DIDN'T WANT YOU TO HAVE AS A SHORTCUT.
I SAID AS A SHORTCUT. SO BECAUSE THEY CAN. OH, ABSOLUTELY.
NOW THAT YOU'VE GOT A BIG SHEETS ON THE OTHER END AND SEVERAL THINGS CEMENT TRUCKS AND THINGS.
NO, NO, NO, THAT WAS NOT WHAT I MEANT. JUST THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO.
NO, NO. THROUGH TRUCKS, YOU HAVE TO BE MAKING DELIVERIES.
EXACTLY. I WOULD GUESS THAT RESTRICTION IS RELATED TO THE INLAND PORT.
TRUCKS WERE GOING THROUGH THERE. TO CUT THROUGH.
TO AVOID. TO SHORTCUT. THEY'VE, I THINK THEY'VE HAD SEVERAL CEMENT TRUCKS AND THINGS GO OVER AND FLIP, YOU KNOW, ON THAT ROAD. SO THE COMMUNITY ASKED FOR THAT TO BE MADE A NO THROUGH.
SO YOU HAVE TO BE DOING A DELIVERY. OF COURSE.
THAT IS YOU GOT TO GET CAUGHT NOT DOING DELIVERY TOO.
SO IT BUT THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT TRUCKS CAN'T GO THROUGH THERE.
YES. SO. DO I HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR. WENDLING, I JUST WANTED TO FIND OUT. DO WE HAVE AN IDEA AS TO ANY TYPE OF INFRASTRUCTURE IMPACTS, ANYTHING LIKE THAT? I WILL START WITH MY MOST RECENT COMMENT THAT I RECEIVED TODAY FROM VDOT.
OKAY. I HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH VDOT BOTH BY EMAIL AND BY PHONE.
REGARDING THIS MATTER. THAT DID STAY IN THEIR MOST RECENT ONE, THAT A PAVED LOW VOLUME ENTRANCE WOULD BE AN OPTION IF THE GROUP IS EXPECTING 50 OR LESS VEHICLES PER DAY. THE ENTRANCE WOULD NEED TO BE WIDE ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE INGRESS AND EGRESS SIMULTANEOUSLY, AND AN ENTRANCE RADII LARGE ENOUGH TO HANDLE AN APPROPRIATE DESIGN VEHICLE.
THAT IS, IN ADDITION TO AN EXTENSIVE EMAIL THAT I RECEIVED FROM VDOT ON JULY 2ND, WHICH WAS PROVIDED TO I WOULD SAY I THINK MR.. JAMISON DID RECEIVE DOCTOR JAMISON DID RECEIVE THAT.
AND WE DID I BELIEVE WE DID FORWARD IT TO. YES.
OKAY. YES. THAT'S ALL I GOT. SO THEY SO THEY DID DISCUSS THE 320 FOOT WEST OF LOCATION WEST OF THE END OF THE MEDIAN BARRIER AT THREE 4522.
SO THE MAP THAT THEY SHOWED, I'M NOT ABSOLUTELY SURE IF THAT'S THE CORRECT POINT THAT YOU WOULD START ON TO MEASURE BACK ALONG RELIANCE ROAD. SO BECAUSE FROM WHAT MY DISCUSSIONS WERE THAT THEY, THAT THE ENTRANCE WOULD BE A LITTLE FARTHER WEST THAN WHAT IT'S BEING SHOWN NOW AND WHAT THE CURRENT EXISTING ENTRANCE IS.
[00:50:05]
OKAY. THE INFRASTRUCTURE PRIMARILY THAT VDOT DEALS WITH IS THE ENTRANCE TO THEIR STATE MAINTAINED ROAD. OKAY. SO THERE WOULD NEED TO BE REQUIREMENTS TO MEET THEIR STANDARDS PER THE USE. AND AGAIN YOU KNOW, MR. SAGER PROVIDED ME WITH THE INFORMATION TODAY.YOU KNOW, THAT COULD BE DETERMINED TO BE FLEXIBLE IF INDEED THERE WERE LESS VEHICLES.
OKAY. SO THEY HAVE THEIR CODE THAT THEY ABIDE BY IN THEIR ENGINEERING DESIGN STANDARDS, AND THEY HAVE TO GO BY WHAT THE LAND USE IS. AND SO I WILL MENTION THAT STAFF MYSELF AND MISS MEADOWS DID MEET WITH THE HOMESTEADERS ALONG WITH OUR PARKS AND REC DIRECTOR.
WE ADDRESSED ZONING RELATED AS MUCH AS ISSUES AND THEN POTENTIALS FOR OTHER ALTERNATIVE SITES IN ORDER TO AVOID ANY HAVING TO DO ANY OF THOSE INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS THAT MAY BE REQUIRED BY VDOT.
ONE BEING ROCKLAND PARK, WHICH, WHICH IS A PUBLIC PARK WHICH HAS AN ENTRANCE APPROVED ENTRANCE.
AND PRETTY SOON AFTER THE THE BRIDGE IS OPEN.
THAT SHOULD HAVE WE SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS. AND THEN ALSO A ANOTHER SITE DOWN FURTHER ON RELIANCE ROAD THAT'S PRIVATELY OWNED SUNFLOWER COTTAGE, WHICH IS CURRENTLY UP FOR SALE.
WHICH WOULD PROVIDE A SIMILAR SITUATION AS FAR AS BEING ABLE TO SELL AND MARKET THEIR PRODUCTS JUST A DIFFERENT LOCATION. BOTH OF THESE ARE DIFFERENT LOCATIONS, BUT THEY WOULD BE YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD BE PROVIDING FUNDING, I GUESS, TO A PRIVATE LAND OR WHETHER BY LEASE OR IF THEY PURCHASE THE PROPERTY.
THAT PROPERTY DID HAVE CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS FOR A GARDEN CENTER AT ONE TIME.
AND ALSO, I THINK A BREWPUB. AND THEY HAVE SOME BI-RITE USES THAT THEY HAVE ON THAT.
SO WITH A COMMERCIAL ENTRANCE ALREADY INSTALLED.
SO WASN'T THERE A CHURCH WANTED TO BUY THAT BUILDING? THE CHURCH WAS WANTING TO BUY IT AND THEN IT FELL APART.
IT FELL BECAUSE THE STRUCTURE ITSELF WAS BUILT AS AN AG EXEMPT STRUCTURE.
THE THE PROPERTY OWNER AT THE TIME BUILT IT THAT WAY.
AND SO THE COST TO THE CHURCH TO BUILD IT TO CODE WENT OVER WHAT THEY COULD AFFORD AS FAR AS DOING THAT AND PURCHASING THE PROPERTY.
SO AS FAR AS I KNOW, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, IT'S STILL UP FOR SALE BY THE PROPERTY OWNER.
SO ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, WE WE NOT THAT WE WERE TRYING TO DIRECT THEM COMPLETELY AWAY FROM THIS PROPERTY, BUT JUST TO PROVIDE THEM WITH ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH WHAT WE SUSPECTED BE THAT WAS GOING TO REQUIRE OF THEM. OKAY. IT IS A COUNTY OWNED PROPERTY. WE DID I DID REACH OUT TO OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY, JORDAN MR. BOWMAN, AND HE WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT YES, IT COULD BE DETERMINED AS A BY RIGHT USE AS RETAIL.
NOT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN A GROCERY STORE OR ANOTHER RETAIL OPERATION.
THE DIFFERENCE IS WITH WAYSIDE STANDS WITH THIS OPERATION IS YOU'RE NOT UNDER ROOF, YOU KNOW, AND THAT THAT REALLY CLEARLY IS MORE IN COMPLIANCE WITH OUR DEFINITION OF WAYSIDE STANDS, OUTDOOR STANDS.
SO IT REALLY WOULD BE MORE OF A, A AGAIN, A HOMESTEADERS HUB, FARMER'S MARKET, SOMETHING WHERE THEY WOULD COME TOGETHER AND IT COULD BE A BUY RIGHT USE AGAIN. I THINK THERE WAS DISCUSSION WITH PARKS AND REC TO HAVE THE PERMIT A A PERMIT FOR EACH OF THE VENDORS.
I DON'T THINK WE CLARIFIED AS FAR AS BUSINESS LICENSES FOR EACH OF THE VENDORS AND THE NECESSITY FOR A PERMIT FROM THE COUNTY FOR EACH OF THE VENDORS.
OBVIOUSLY, WE COULD PROVIDE A PERMIT TO PARKS AND REC IF THIS WAS TO COME FORWARD AND BECOME A LAND USE, THAT WE WE COULD ISSUE SOMETHING TO THEM. WE WOULD WANT TO SEE, YOU KNOW, A CONCEPT PLAN THAT THEY WOULD SHOW, YOU KNOW, THE INGRESS AND EGRESS. WE WOULD WANT TO SEE THAT THE STANDARDS FOR VDOT ARE BEING MET.
[00:55:05]
AND PARKING, ANY LIGHTING, THAT KIND OF THING WERE BEING MET.I WILL SAY THAT DOCTOR JAMIESON DID PROVIDE US WITH A DRAFT OF HIS TECHNICAL MEMO, WHICH WE INCLUDE IN YOUR PACKETS. AND I DON'T KNOW IF LEGAL HAS REVIEWED THAT.
SO I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW COMPLIANT THAT IS, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE INCLUDED IT IN YOUR PACKETS.
AND SO ALONG WITH THAT, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WE'RE WILLING TO WORK WITH THE HOMESTEADERS AS AND PARKS AND REC. REALLY? I THINK IT'LL COME DOWN TO MORE WORKING WITH PARKS AND REC AS TO WHAT IMPROVEMENTS NEED TO BE DONE TO THAT PROPERTY.
IF, YOU KNOW HOMESTEADERS WANT TO, YOU KNOW, OR DEAD SET ON GOING THERE.
AND BE THAT IS ALSO PROVIDED US IN THAT EMAIL, SOME SOME DIAGRAMS FOR THE ENTRANCE.
AND I THINK I DID I DID INCLUDE THOSE IN YOUR PARENTS.
SO, YEAH. AND THAT'S FOR MODERATE VOLUME COMMERCIAL ENTRANCE DESIGN.
SO YOUR LATEST CONVERSATION WITH THEM INDICATED A LOW VOLUME WOULD BE LESS THAN 50 VEHICLES.
THAT I JUST CHECKED MY EMAIL. AND THAT'S WHEN I GOT OKAY THIS EVENING THAT I JUST RECEIVED IT.
MY OUTLOOK WAS NOT WORKING EARLIER. AND SO FINALLY.
AND TO THEIR RECOMMENDED, TO THEIR RECOMMENDED STANDARDS, TO THEIR RECOMMENDED STANDARDS.
RIGHT. JUST AS WE DO WITH ALL OF COMMERCIAL. ANY COMMERCIAL.
YEAH. THIS IS NOT A BIG YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A SHEETZ.
IT'S NOT A GROCERY STORE. RIGHT? IT'S. IT'S A IT'S.
WELL, THE WEBSITE. I MEAN, IT. YEAH. I CAN UNDERSTAND IF IT WAS IN A COMMERCIAL.
COMPANY. CORPORATION. YOU KNOW WHERE. YEAH. YOU'RE RIGHT.
WITH THE THE VOLUME OF TRAFFIC. BUT THIS IS NOT WHAT IT IS, YOU KNOW.
AND THEN WITH, WITH THE LOWER VOLUME OPTION, IF WE AGREED THAT OR THE WAY THE HOMESTEADERS, YOU KNOW AGREE WITH THAT. I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD MONITOR IT OR ANYTHING, BUT I'M JUST SAYING IF IF IT TURNED OUT TO BE A GOOD OPTION TO PURSUE.
WHAT ELSE DO WE NEED TO DO IN THAT INSURANCE? NOTHING. IT MEETS ALL OF THE STANDARDS OTHER THAN THE 320FT.
AND I THINK THAT THE FOOTAGE CHANGES ONCE IT BECOMES A LOW TRAFFIC ENTRANCE.
EVERYTHING ELSE FITS THE RADII IS ACTUALLY LARGER THAN THE REQUIREMENT, AS IS THE SITE DISTANCE.
I JUST I WOULD POINT OUT THAT THAT THE TERMINOLOGY USED WAS APPROXIMATELY 320FT, AND IF IT ACTUALLY WAS PUSHED OUT FURTHER, IT WOULD GO ON OUT OF THE RIGHT OF WAY AND ONTO THE PARCEL.
CORRECT. AND I, I THINK THAT WHEN THEY USE THE APPROXIMATELY 320FT AND THEY SEE THAT, WELL, IF YOU HAVE TO MOVE IT OFF THE RIGHT OF WAY ONTO A PARCEL, THERE MAY BE A WILLINGNESS TO LOOK AT WHAT APPROXIMATE WHAT APPROXIMATELY MEANS, YOU KNOW. PARDON? I SAY CREATE A LAND LOCK TO THE BACK LOTS AS WELL.
OKAY. IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT FROM LIKE THAT STANDPOINT.
YEAH. MY THINKING IS, IS IT MAY BE THAT THE COUNTY AND VDOT AND THE APPLICANTS WOULD WANT TO SCHEDULE A SCOPING TYPE OF A MEETING, SO EVERYBODY IS ON BOARD WITH JUST WHAT VDOT WANTS AND NEEDS TO HAVE DONE. WHAT THEY CAN WAVE.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S THEIR CALL, NOT MY CALL. THEY OWN THE ROADS.
THE STATE OWNS THE ROADS. NOT NOT THE COUNTY.
SO THEY'RE THE ONES WHO WOULD BE MAKING THE CALL ON WHAT COULD BE WAIVER.
WHAT COULD THEY COULD BE FLEXIBLE ON BASED ON THE CRITERIA WHICH WE'VE PROVIDED THEM.
AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE BASING THESE IMMEDIATE COMMENTS ON.
BUT USUALLY WHAT I HAVE FOUND IS COMMUNICATION, DIRECT COMMUNICATION, WHERE EVERYBODY IS SITTING DOWN, ESPECIALLY FOR PROJECTS IN THE CORRIDOR, COMMERCIAL PROJECTS TO DO A SCOPING MEETING, AND THEN THEY CAN KIND OF GO FROM THERE.
[01:00:04]
AS TO EXACTLY WHAT THEY WILL NEED FOR THIS TYPE OF A.WE'LL CALL IT A LOW USE. I MEAN, IT COULD BE POTENTIALLY A LOW USE, BUT VDOT DOES NOT GAUGE LAND USE ON THE COST OF WHAT IT TAKES TO DO THEIR ENTRANCES OR DO WHAT THEY'RE REQUIRING.
SO, YOU KNOW, WELL, I JUST SPEAKING FOR MYSELF.
LET'S SET UP THAT MEETING. MAYBE WE COULD DO IT THIS WEEK.
YEAH. I THINK THURSDAY AT 1030, I ACTUALLY HAVE A MEETING WITH THE VDOT GUY.
IF IF IF DOCTOR JAMIESON, YOU WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND THAT IN SOME FORM, I'LL SEND YOU.
I THINK WE DO IT IN PERSON. WE MIGHT DO IT BY VIRTUAL, BUT.
OKAY. ARE YOU AVAILABLE AT 1030 ON THURSDAY? YEAH.
YEAH I CAN, YEAH, I'M PRETTY SURE THURSDAY I HAVEN'T, SO.
YEAH, WE CAN DO THAT. YEAH. AND THEN THAT WAY ALL OF US ARE ON BOARD AND THE COMMUNICATION IS THERE.
WE'RE ALL HEARING THE SAME THING. WELL, ALSO, AND I AGREE WITH YOU.
YOU KNOW, COMMUNICATION IS VERY IMPORTANT, YOU KNOW. SO MAYBE, YOU KNOW ALSO COMMUNICATING THE SCOPE OF THIS, RIGHT? IT'S A SCOPING. IT'S A SCOPE. IT'S THE SCOPE THAT WITH ANY KIND OF BUSINESS THAT'S COMING TO THE BOARD AND TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE NOT OPENING A CHICK FIL A OR NOT PUTTING, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, A BUILDING WITH SELLING FOOD AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
IT'S A WASTE SITE IN THAT WHICH HAS BEEN DEFINED IN OUR ORDINANCE OF WHAT IT IS.
SO I THINK I THINK YOU'RE YOU'RE RIGHT. WE NEED THE COMMUNICATION PART OF IT AND SOMEHOW WORK THIS OUT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN INITIATIVE FROM THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TO TRY AND MAKE THIS WORK.
COUNTY. PROPERTY. THIS COUNTY. PROPERTY. AND SO.
RIGHT, I UNDERSTAND THAT. YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT.
BUT WE GOVERN RIGHT. THE COUNTY. RIGHT. OKAY.
SO WHATEVER WE CAN DO TO MAKE THIS WORK. I THINK IT'D BE A WIN WIN FOR EVERYBODY.
OKAY. I THINK IF AS FAR AS I KNOW, WE HAVE WE HAD AN ISSUE WITH ZONING AND ABOUT LIKE THE USE WAS THE USE ACCEPTABLE? AND MR. BOWMAN DID REPLY TO YOU AND YOU HAD FORWARDED HIM THE, THE, THE RESEARCH THAT I HAD DONE AND HE, HE BASICALLY SAID HE I THINK THE STRONG ARGUMENT THAT THE SALE OF FARM PRODUCE FALLS WITHIN GENERAL RETAILING.
SO I THINK HE'S OKAY WITH THAT. THEN WE HAD A ISSUE WITH THE ENTRYWAY.
WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, DEAL WITH VDOT. AND THERE ALREADY THERE IS AN ENTRYWAY THERE.
AND SO I THINK WE'RE WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR IS WHEN THEY SAY APPROXIMATELY 320FT, YOU KNOW, LET'S SEE WHERE THEY WANT IT. YEAH. WHERE EXACTLY DO YOU HAVE THE MATTER OF.
OF OF THE VOLUME, LIKE THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE ENTRYWAY.
SO I THINK WHERE YOU'RE GOING IS, IS SOUNDS LIKE THE THING TO DO.
JUST GET THAT DONE. YEAH. AND, AND AND THIS IN ANY KIND OF COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, AGRICULTURAL, COMMERCIAL, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THIS THE MORE MEETINGS AND INFORMATION YOU HAVE OUT UP FRONT, IT ALLOWS THE DEVELOPER TO KIND OF GO BACK AND THEN DRAW UP THEIR SITE PLANS AND WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING, AND KIND OF CONCEPTUALLY, YOU GUYS PUT TOGETHER SOME SORT OF A CONCEPT PLAN THAT PARKS AND REC CAN THEN DIRECT TO US AND WE CAN LOOK AT AND IF IT ALL MEETS THEIR CRITERIA. RIGHT. OKAY. SO THERE YOU GO.
YOU KNOW, WE CAN ADDRESS THAT AT THAT TIME WHILE WHILE IT'S IN THAT CONCEPT AND WE'RE REVIEWING IT.
BUT YEAH. SO WE THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM. WE CAN DO THAT.
WELL, I DON'T LOOK AT THE THE HOMESTEADERS AS A DEVELOPER.
OKAY. NO OFFENSE. NO, I'M THINKING WE'RE IN THAT.
YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO SAY WE'RE IN THAT HYBRID AREA, LIKE A SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTAL WITH BEING A RESIDENTIAL USE, BUT FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES. SO WHERE ARE WE AT WITH THAT? SO WE'LL HAVE TO COME UP WITH A NEW TERM. WE HAVE KIND OF AN AGRICULTURAL WITH COMMERCIAL? YEAH. I MEAN, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY WE ARE KIND OF GOING THROUGH, YOU KNOW, NEEDING TO KNOW THE TERMINOLOGY BECAUSE LIKE WE MENTIONED, LIKE THIS DOESN'T EXIST ANYWHERE. SO BRINGING THIS FORWARD TO OUR COUNTY, I MEAN, IT GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY,
[01:05:05]
LIKE YOU SAID, DO THINGS RIGHT AND TO HAVE THE COMMUNICATION.I'LL DO THAT. VERY GOOD. I'M GOING TO MENTION, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME OTHER PROPERTIES OUT THERE THAT ARE GOING UNUSED, BOTH COUNTY AND COUNTY AND TOWN OWNED AND TOWN OWNED.
AND I KNOW OVER IN ENGLAND, IN EUROPE, THEY HAVE COMMUNITY GARDENING PLOTS THAT THE COMMUNITIES LEASE TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE GROUNDS IN THEIR LITTLE VILLAGES TO BE ABLE TO GARDEN.
AND YET THEY LIKE TO GARDEN. AND I KNOW WE MAY NOT HAVE THAT HERE SO MUCH IN WARREN COUNTY, BUT THERE MAY BE PEOPLE IN THE TOWN WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED.
AND THEN YOU KNOW, THAT COULD BE POTENTIALLY.
AND WHEN I JUST SAY POTENTIALLY A LONG TERM TYPE OF LONG TERM VISION FOR ADDITIONAL AREAS, IF THOSE AREAS DO NOT GET DEVELOPED, ESPECIALLY IN THOSE AREAS OF THE FLOODPLAIN FLOODPLAIN, WE'VE GOT TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT GOES UP AND WHAT'S BUILT THERE.
SO GARDENING AS FAR AS FEMA GOES, IS EXPENDABLE.
SO LONG TERM VISION MAYBE PUT THAT IN YOUR BACK POCKET AND WE'LL DEAL WITH THIS IMMEDIATE VISION AND PROPOSAL. YEAH, I KNOW THAT MY DAUGHTER AND SON IN LAW LIVE UP IN HYDE PARK, VERMONT.
AND THEY'VE GOT COMMUNITY GARDENS UP THERE THAT THAT THEY, THAT THEY WOULD GROW PRODUCE ON.
SO THAT WAS PRETTY NEAT. YEAH. DOCTOR COUNTY HAS A EDUCATIONAL COMMUNITY GARDEN THAT THEY ALLOW PEOPLE TO COME AND FARM AND GARDEN, AND THEY GET TO LEARN. AND IF YOU'RE A MASTER, YOU GET TO TEACH.
AND IT'S REALLY BEAUTIFUL. IF YOU EVER HAVE THE CHANCE TO LOOK IT UP.
OKAY. WELL, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE NEXT STEPS.
THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OR ANYTHING? IF NOT. SINCE THEY MENTIONED ABOUT SHORT TERM RENTALS.
[C. Discussion - Short-Term Tourist Rentals - Setback Waivers - Chase Lenz ]
MR. LENZ. WERE WE GOING TO DO THE ROAD RIGHT AWAY IN FIRST BEFORE THAT? OR DO I MISUNDERSTAND WHEN YOU CHANGE YOUR ORDER, YOU SWITCHED.THIS ONE IS THIS ONE. OKAY. OKAY. BE WITH ME.
IT WILL NOT BE THE FIRST OR LAST TIME WE TALK ABOUT SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTALS.
SO WE'LL JUST JUMP RIGHT IN. SO THE CODE FOR SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTALS, SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTALS.
A LAND USE WAS ADDED TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE IN 2012.
IT WAS ACTUALLY ALLOWED BY RIGHT ON AGRICULTURAL PROPERTIES OVER FIVE ACRES IN SIZE AND THEN BY CUP IN THE R1 DISTRICT AND BY CUP IN THE AG DISTRICT IF YOU'RE ALLOWED IS UNDER FIVE ACRES. THE BOARD IN 2014 WAS DISSATISFIED WITH THE SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS THAT WERE IN PLACE.
AND SO IN 2014 A LOT OF SUPPLEMENTAL REGS, A LOT OF THE ONES THAT YOU SEE NOWADAYS WERE ADDED IN THAT 2014, INCLUDING THE 100 FOOT SETBACK REQUIREMENT IN 2017.
A FELLOW WITH A RURAL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY WANTED TO DO IT.
SO IT WAS A PRETTY LOW OR SMALL CHANGE JUST TO ADD IT TO THE RURAL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.
WE'RE HERE FOR THAT. BUT WE DID UPDATE THE SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS FOR CLARITY AND ORGANIZATION.
RESTRICTED BY CONDITIONS. SO YOUR OUTDOOR BURNING.
SO NOW WE CAN READ OFF FOUR CONDITIONS INSTEAD OF 7 OR 8.
[01:10:04]
AND SO I'LL GO BRIEFLY INTO THE 2024 TEXT AMENDMENTS, BECAUSE I THINK THAT THIS WILL LARGELY BE A CONTINUATION OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS.SO BOTH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND BOARD IN 2023 IDENTIFIED BASICALLY THAT THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT PLAN REQUIREMENTS WERE LACKING IN WHAT LOCAL MEANT. AND THERE WAS CONCERNS OVER HOW QUICKLY YOU'D BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO ISSUES.
AND SO WE HAD WORKED OUT THAT 30 MILE PROPERTY MANAGER WITHIN 30 MILES AS A REQUIREMENT.
LIKE I SAID, AFTER OVER A YEAR OF KIND OF DOING THESE WORK SESSIONS, TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT IDEAS, WE DIDN'T GET ANYWHERE. SO WE MOVED FORWARD WITH ALL OF THE CHANGES THAT DID NOT TOUCH THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT AND LEFT THAT AS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE WAIVED.
AND SO DIVING INTO THE SETBACK REGULATION SO IN 2023 AND 2024 WE HAD FLOATED A FEW IDEAS TO YOU AND WE HAD EQUALLY DISCUSSED THEM AS FAR AS BUILDING TOWARDS A MORE CONSISTENT DECISION MAKING PROCESS WHEN IT COMES TO GRANTING WAIVERS TO THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT.
AND SO MY ULTIMATE SUGGESTIONS FOR CONSISTENCY WERE TO EITHER ONE GET RID OF IT, THEREFORE REMOVING THAT DECISION FROM IT COMPLETELY OR TO MOVE IT TO THE DEFINITION OR THE LISTED USE SO THAT IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS A QUALIFYING FACTOR.
AS IN, YOU CANNOT WAIVE IT IF YOU DON'T HAVE 100FT OF SEPARATION, YOU CAN'T EVEN APPLY.
WE DIDN'T GET ANYWHERE ON THE CRITERIA. THERE WAS DISAGREEMENT.
A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT WE DID AGREE ON WAS CLASSIFIABLE ARBITRARY AND DIDN'T BELONG IN A CODE.
BACK THEN AND SO THAT TAKES US TO WHAT THE CODE CURRENTLY HAS ON WAIVING SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS.
SO THAT OVERALL PROVISION THAT GIVES YOU THE ABILITY TO DO THAT IS UNDER 180 DASH 30, WHICH PROVIDES THAT IN APPROVING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MAY VARY PROVISIONS OF THIS ARTICLE WHERE THEY ARE DEEMED UNNECESSARY TO PROMOTE THE PURPOSES OF THIS CHAPTER, THIS CHAPTER BEING ZONING. SO TO PROMOTE THE PURPOSES OF ZONING, IT MAY NOT IMPOSE SUCH ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS OR AND MAY IMPOSE ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS AS ARE NECESSARY TO ACCOMPLISH THE PURPOSES OF THIS CHAPTER.
AND SO THE CONDITIONAL USE CODE GIVES YOU A LOT OF WELL, IT GIVES YOU EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE THINKING ABOUT WHEN YOU'RE MAKING THESE DECISIONS. AND READING DIRECTLY FROM THAT CODE, IT SAYS THAT WHEN YOU FIND THAT IT IS PROVABLE YOU FIND THAT THE PROPOSED USE IS HARMONIOUS AND WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT THE USE OR DEVELOPMENT OF NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE APPLICABLE ZONING DISTRICT REGULATIONS AND THE ADOPTED COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. FURTHER, IT GOES ON TO SAY THE LOCATION, SIZE AND HEIGHT OF BUILDINGS, STRUCTURES, WALLS AND FENCES IN THE NATURE OF EXTENSIVE SCREENING, BUFFERING AND LANDSCAPING SHALL BE SUCH THAT THE USE WILL NOT HINDER OR DISCOURAGE THE APPROPRIATE DEVELOPMENT AND USE OF ADJACENT OR NEARBY LAND AND OR BUILDINGS, OR IMPAIR THE VERY THE VALUE THERE THEREOF.
I LOVE HOW WORDY ZONING CODE IS. SO UNDER THE CURRENT PROVISIONS AND STANDARDS OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, WHEN THE BOARD GRANTS A WAIVER TO THE 100 FOOT SETBACK FOR A SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTAL, THE BOARD FINDS THAT THE 100 FOOT.
SETBACK IS NOT NECESSARY TO ENSURE THAT THE LOCATION OF THE SHORT TERM RENTAL WILL NOT HINDER OR DISCOURAGE THE APPROPRIATE USE OR DEVELOPMENT, OR IMPAIR THE VALUE OF ADJACENT PROPERTIES. BEFORE YOU MOVE ON, I KNOW YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE IT, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE THE PROVISION AND STANDARDS FOR THAT.
WHERE THAT LANGUAGE CAME, IT IS FOUND IN EVERY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT YOU'VE EVER SEEN.
IT IS ON EVERY COVER SHEET WE HAVE PUT BEFORE YOU.
SO YOU'RE JUST SAYING THAT THE PROVISION AND THE STANDARDS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THIS LANGUAGE THAT IS ON THE COVER SHEET THAT WE PUT BEFORE YOU WITH EVERY CONDITIONAL USE THE COVER SHEET FOR MAKING THE MOTION. YES.
YEAH. THE CODE SECTION THAT'S REFERENCED ON THAT, IT'S THE SAME EVERY TIME.
AND IT IS THAT CODE SECTION, BUT THAT BUT IT'S NOT IN AN ORDINANCE.
IT'S JUST PUTTING ON. OH NO, THAT IS UNDER THE CONDITIONAL USE CODE.
SO IT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO SHORT TERM RENTALS. IT APPLIES TO ALL KINDS.
THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR. SO IS THAT THIS CODE UP HERE.
SO THAT CODE IS ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE. THE SECOND BULLET POINT.
THE SECOND? YEAH. WHAT'S ITALICIZED THERE IS PULLED DIRECTLY FROM THAT COMMISSION.
SO THAT NARRATIVE I'LL FIND THERE. OKAY. THANK YOU.
OKAY. SO, YEAH, WE GOT INTO SOME CRITERIA THAT WE DISCUSSED IN 2023.
ACTUALLY, I TAKE THAT BACK. WE REVIEWED PREVIOUSLY, GRANTED SETBACK WAIVER REQUEST FOR SIMILARITIES,
[01:15:01]
AND FOUND THE FOLLOWING REASONS GIVEN FOR GRANTING THE WAIVER.WE'VE HAD THE NEIGHBORING RESIDENTS IS ALSO USED AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
THE OWNER IS A FULL TIME OCCUPANT AND WILL BE ABLE TO SELF-REGULATE NOISE ISSUES.
THE NEIGHBOR WITHIN 100FT IS THE ACTUAL PROPERTY MANAGER FOR THE SHORT TERM RENTAL.
IT'S LOCATED IN A SPECIAL FLOOD HAZARD AREA OR A STEEP SLOPE AREA WHERE THE RISK ASSOCIATED WITH USE OF IT AS A FULL RESIDENTIAL BUILDING IS IT BASICALLY OUTWEIGHS THE ASSOCIATED RISK OF OF HAVING A TRANSIENT OCCUPANCY.
AND JUST OVERALL, THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS IS PRIMARILY SHORT TERM RENTALS.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOT TOO MANY PERMANENT RESIDENTS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
LIKE SHENANDOAH RIVER STATES. I THINK WE HAD ONE DOWN THERE WHERE THAT WAS THE CASE.
OH, MAN. MAN. THEY TOLD ME THEY'D BE HERE. SO THEY FORMED THE WARREN COALITION OR WARREN COUNTY COALITION OF COMMUNITY ASSOCIATIONS, AND COLLECTIVELY SUBMITTED SUGGESTIONS FOR CRITERIA FOR WAIVING THE 100 FOOT SETBACK REQUIREMENT.
SOME OF THOSE INCLUDE THE WRITTEN APPROVAL FROM CURRENT OWNERS.
THEY DID BUILD IN A PROCESS FOR BRINGING IT BACK FOR REVIEW.
IF THE NEIGHBORS CHANGE, WHICH I DON'T THINK IS LEGAL.
AND THEY ALSO SUGGESTED A 60 FOOT CUTOFF. I'M SORRY.
COULD YOU REPEAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID? YEAH. SO BASICALLY, IF THE NEIGHBOR THAT AGREED SELLS THEIR PROPERTY AND THE NEW NEIGHBOR IS JUST OUTRAGED THAT THERE WOULD BE A PROCESS FOR THEM TO APPEAL THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
YEAH. THAT'S YOU, THAT'S YOU. THEY WOULD THEY WOULD EQUALLY CONSIDER THAT. BUT YOU SHOULD BE CONSIDERING FUTURE RESIDENTS WHEN YOU APPROVE THESE THINGS AND HOW THE LONG TERM IMPACT ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT'S WHAT THAT CONDITIONAL USE CALLS FOR.
OKAY. SO YEAH, THIS IS MY LAST SLIDE. I'M JUST KIND OF ASKING, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? SO YEAH, WE GOT TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT CODIFYING CRITERIA.
AND SO, YEAH, IT HAS TO FORM AN ESSENTIAL NEXUS.
TO THROW A LEGAL SPEAK AT YOU WITH THE UNDERLYING REGULATION.
AND SO IT HAS TO AND THE CRITERIA ITSELF CANNOT BE ARBITRARY OR CAPRICIOUS.
SO, SO WHAT, WHAT OTHER WHAT OTHER JURISDICTIONS HAVE A 100 FOOT SETBACK BACK IN THIS AREA? YES. SO KELLY, OUR PLANNER, HELPED ME PULL A BUNCH OF DATA, BOTH FOR SO I THINK YOU ALL GOT A COPY OF IT.
SO ONE IS A SPREADSHEET PRINTED OUT ON A LARGER PIECE OF PAPER.
THIS IS EVERY TIME THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAS MADE A DECISION ON A SETBACK WAIVER.
AND IT HAS DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF INFORMATION.
IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SHE INCLUDED. I WAS GETTING TO IT. YEAH.
ANOTHER THING THAT SHE PULLED TOGETHER IS JUST GENERAL FACT SHEETS.
A LOT OF IT IS STUFF THAT IS IN WARREN COUNTY.
AND SO THE ONLY SETBACK REQUIREMENT SPECIFIC TO A TRANSIENT LODGING TYPE USE THAT WE FOUND IN SURROUNDING JURISDICTIONS IS IN SHENANDOAH COUNTY, A 50 FOOT SETBACK FROM ADJOINING PROPERTY LINES FOR NON DWELLING RENTALS.
SO OUR WARREN COUNTY THERE'S TWO THINGS I'VE ALWAYS SAID.
[01:20:01]
YOU CANNOT DO IT OUT OF AN APARTMENT. YOU CANNOT DO IT OUT OF A MULTI-FAMILY DWELLING, SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING NOT ATTACHED TO ANY OTHER UNIT BY ANY MEANS.SO OUR CODE, WE ONLY ALLOW COMMERCIAL USE OF A RECREATIONAL VEHICLE IN A CAMPGROUND.
YOU HAVE TO BE APPROVED FOR A CAMPGROUND, OTHERWISE YOU CANNOT RENT YOUR CAMPER OUT. PERIOD. AND SO THAT THAT'S ONE REGULATION IS IT HAS TO BE A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING AND THE OTHER IS THE SETBACK. I HAD CHECKED THIS SHENANDOAH CODE, I THINK, IN 2023, AND THAT SETBACK WAS NOT THERE, OR I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS APPLICABLE BECAUSE IT'S DIFFERENT. YOU CAME UP WITH THE SETBACK, THE 100 FOOT SETBACK.
I WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO RELY ON MATT FOR THAT ONE.
I BELIEVE THAT WAS PERHAPS KAREN. KAREN LOGAN? YES, THAT WAS HER SUGGESTION. JUST MY OVERALL THOUGHTS ON MAYBE WHY IT WAS 100.
WE DO REQUIRE 50 FOOT FRONT SETBACK, AND SO IF IT'S CONFORMING, YOU WON'T HAVE THIS ISSUE FOR HOUSES THAT ARE ACROSS THE STREET FROM EACH OTHER BECAUSE THEY'LL BE AT LEAST 50FT OR 100FT APART, 50FT ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ROAD.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY STUDIES THAT SHOW HOW, WELL, NOISE CARRIES IN CERTAIN AREAS.
OBVIOUSLY THAT'S VERY LOCALIZED AND DEPENDS ON THE SURROUNDING GEOGRAPHY.
BUT NO, I DON'T HAVE A GREAT ANSWER FOR WHY 100 WAS CHOSEN.
NO. GOOD. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING WE WE CAN'T SOLVE TONIGHT.
OR WE. I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD TRY TO SOLVE IT TONIGHT.
I THINK WE NEED A COMMITTEE THAT HAS STAKEHOLDERS, YOU KNOW, REALTORS HOA PEOPLE, PO PEOPLE, BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. AND LOOK AT THIS FROM ALL ANGLES, OF ALL AREAS, BECAUSE IT IS IT IS AN ONGOING ISSUE WITH, WITH ALL OF THESE.
SO IF I GET ONE AND I SELL MY PROPERTY THAT HAS IT TO YOU, THEN YOU HAVE IT.
SO THE UNDERSTANDING WITH THE NEIGHBOR THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME MAY NOT EXTEND TO YOU, BUT THEY HAVE NO CHOICE IN IT AT THAT. AND WE'RE PUTTING THESE THINGS IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS.
AND THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE'RE, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE REPRESENTING.
AND IT'S ALWAYS A PROBLEM TO ME. IF I OWN SOMETHING, I REALLY HATE THAT SOMEBODY'S GOING TO TELL ME WHAT I CAN, CAN, AND CANNOT DO WITH IT WHEN IT'S LEGAL. I MEAN, I'M NOT GOING TO GO OUT AND DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL WITH IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE MAKING DECISIONS THAT AFFECT PEOPLE DOWN THE ROAD MANY, MANY YEARS TO COME.
AND WITH EVERY GOOD INTENTION IS AN UNFORESEEN CONSEQUENCE.
SO I, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE A COMMITTEE.
AND I WOULD, YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE AN OPINION, TOO MUCH OF WHO'S ON IT.
BUT I WILL LIKE TO GIVE MISS GREENFIELD, I SAID AFTER THE FIRST TIME I MET HER, I THOUGHT SHE NEEDED TO TEACH A COURSE ON HOW TO PRESENT AN APPLICATION FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS.
SHE'S VERY THOROUGH, AND I DO BELIEVE THAT SHE HAS A VERY GOOD REPUTATION.
AND IT'S WHETHER IT'S HER, WHOEVER I THINK SOMEONE THAT DOES THESE HAS THE EXPERIENCE NEEDS TO BE ON THERE AS WELL AS THE PEOPLE AND THE POTS AND AND SO FORTH TO GET THAT WELL-ROUNDED 360 VISION OF HOW THESE THINGS CAN BE DONE TO THE BEST OF EVERYONE, THE THE SHORT TERM RENTAL OWNER, THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE NEXT TO IT.
BUT HONESTLY, THIS HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT A PEBBLE IN OUR SHOE.
AND AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S. NOBODY ELSE HAS IT. WHY DO WE HAVE IT? AND I CAN'T FIGURE THAT OUT. I CAN'T FIND ANYBODY WHO WHO CAN GIVE ME A GOOD REASON.
ALL IT'S DONE IS JUST CREATE PROBLEMS FOR US AND JUST IN THE GO AHEAD.
I'M SORRY. YEAH. AND AND SO IF YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING THAT HAS THAT WE'RE DOING HAS.
[01:25:02]
GET RID OF THIS THING. HAD THE COMMITTEE COME TOGETHER, HAVE THEM TAKE A LOOK AT THE AT THE PROGRAM IN ITS ENTIRETY.BUT THIS, THIS 100 FOOT SETBACK HAS, HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT A HEADACHE BECAUSE THE YOU KNOW, THE THE WAY I LOOK AT IT IS. OKAY, WE'VE GOT A 100 FOOT SETBACK.
DO ANY OF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN? OH, NO. OKAY.
CHECK. DO DOES ONE NEIGHBOR COMPLAIN? WELL, HE'S GOT A COMPLAINT, BUT HE'S JUST SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, HE'S GOT A DOG AND IT BOTHERS HIS DOG.
WELL, OKAY, WE'LL WE'LL LET THIS ONE GO. TWO NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN.
WELL, NO, WE'RE GOING TO CHECK THIS ONE OFF AND SAY, NO.
YOU KNOW, THE AND IT'S TO TO ME, IT'S IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT HAS CREATED MORE PROBLEMS THAN IT HAS SOLVED. SO WHY KEEP IT? WELL, I ALWAYS WONDERED WHY WHEN YOU BUILD A NEW HOME, IT'S A 50 FOOT SETBACK.
SO, I MEAN, I'VE HEARD I'VE HEARD, YOU KNOW STORIES WHERE A BUILDER WILL COME IN AND BUILD A HOME NEXT TO A HOME ALREADY, AND THE REQUIREMENT IS 50FT. THEN THE BUILDER ALL ALONG KNEW THAT THEY CAN GET A WAIVER AND HAVE IT TURNED INTO AN INVESTMENT PROPERTY AND DO A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
AND THEN THAT'S WHERE WE IT GETS MONEY FOR ME.
I MEAN, IF IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE DEVELOPER, FOR THE DEVELOPER TO HAVE 50FT, THEN WHY CAN'T THE SHORT TERM RENTALS BE THE SAME TO ME? YOU KNOW, BUT TO PIGGYBACK ON WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, I MEAN, I'M LOOKING AT THIS, AND NO ONE HAS SETBACK REQUIREMENTS.
NO. YOU KNOW, AND HAVING A COMMITTEE, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ONE WAY TO TO PULL ALL THE PARTIES TOGETHER. BUT WHAT DO WE DO IN THE INTERIM? WE IT DOESN'T SOLVE ANYTHING.
YOU KNOW, AND THEY CAME WITH A CRITERIA. AND SO NOW WE'RE REVISITING THAT AGAIN.
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE JUST KICKING THE THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD.
I HATE TO SAY THAT, BUT THAT'S THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING.
I WOULD I WOULD JUST KIND OF TO ADD TO THAT. IN 2014, PRIOR TO THAT, WE GOT A LOT OF APPLICATIONS FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS AND A LOT OF THEM IN THESE RESIDENTIAL ONES, ZONING DISTRICTS UP IN SCOTLAND ESTATES AND BLUE MOUNTAIN.
I REMEMBER A FEW OF THEM, AND THERE WERE COMPLAINTS THAT, OH, THESE ARE TOO CLOSE.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, THINKING OUT OF THE BOX, I, YOU KNOW, I THINK TARA WAS JUST BASICALLY HER THOUGHT WAS, WELL, AS CHASE SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE 50FT IN FRONT, 50FT ON THE FRONT OF THE OTHER PROPERTY.
YOU GOT 100FT THERE, PLUS 25 FOR THE ROAD SIDE.
SETBACKS ARE MINIMUM OF 30FT, BUT 30FT MIGHT BE TOO CLOSE.
SO WE JUST I IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, IT WAS JUST IT WAS SOMEWHAT ARBITRARY.
BUT WE CAME UP WITH 100FT. AND THAT WENT THROUGH WITH HAVING A PROPERTY MANAGEMENT PLAN HAVING THE PO NOTIFIED, BUT NOT HAVING THE PO BEING ABLE TO MAKE THE FINAL DECISION AS TO ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, THAT USE COULD BE DONE IN THERE. IN THERE.
SO TELL ME THIS. HAVE WE EVER SEEN AN INSTANCE WHERE THAT 100 FOOT SETBACK HAS HAS STOPPED SOMETHING FROM HAPPENING? WELL, THAT'S JUST THE POINT.
IS, WHAT HAPPENED WAS THEN AFTER THAT, WE COULD TELL PEOPLE PRIOR TO KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS, IS, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE HAD THE 105TH SETBACK AND THEY HAD THIS REALLY WILD PARTY OVER HERE.
AND BUT BECAUSE WE HAD 100FT, WE WERE OKAY, YOU KNOW, THE VERSUS WE HAD A, WE HAD A 60 FOOT SETBACK WITH THE WAIVER AND WE HAD A WILD PARTY OVER THERE, AND EVERYBODY WENT CRAZY.
AND THEY LIVED IN ONE OF THESE, THESE CLUSTER PLACES THAT SO THEY GOT AN ACRE AND AND THERE'S EACH EACH HOUSE IS ON AN ACRE. SO YOU CAN IMAGINE THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF DISTANCE.
[01:30:09]
AND YOU COULD TELL US ALL SORTS OF WILD THINGS WERE GOING ON THERE.THEY HAD TO CALL THE COPS. SO CAN YOU IMAGINE, THOUGH, IF IT WAS 20FT AWAY, IT WOULD BE THE SAME THING, THOUGH. IT WOULD BE THE SAME EXACT THING. BECAUSE THE BECAUSE OF ALL THE THE CRAZINESS THAT WAS GOING ON THERE.
I CAN'T IF THERE WAS ANYBODY AROUND US THAT HAD SOMETHING THAT WAS SIMILAR TO THIS AND I'D SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, LET'S LET'S CONSIDER THAT, BUT I BUT YOU SAID THAT.
NO, WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY, SO WHY DO WE DO IT? NOBODY ELSE. AND IT CREATES PROBLEMS FOR US. IT DOESN'T SOLVE ANYTHING.
IT'S KIND OF LIKE, WELL, I'LL JUST KEEP THAT PEBBLE IN MY SHOE BECAUSE I LIKE PEBBLES IN MY SHOE.
WE ARE. AND WE ARE FARTHER DOWN THE ROAD. OKAY.
AND WE HAVE SEEN WHERE WAIVERS HAVE BEEN GRANTED.
SO IT'S HARDER FOR US TO SAY, TAKE AN APPLICATION AND SAY, WELL, YOU'RE 98FT OR YOU'RE 89FT, BUT YOU COULD POTENTIALLY GET A WAIVER. YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF SAYING, OH, YOU'RE AT 100FT, SORRY, NO, YOU CAN'T APPLY. PERIOD. OKAY. OR IF WE DIDN'T HAVE IT, WELL, YOU CAN APPLY.
WE WON'T FACTOR IN. THE 100FT WILL FACTOR IN ANY OF THE OTHER POTENTIAL CRITERIA, WHETHER YOU'RE STAYING THERE, WHETHER YOU'RE IN A FLOODPLAIN WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE WE'VE LEARNED A LOT IN THOSE COUPLE YEARS AND EVEN PRIOR TO THAT ABOUT APPLYING CRITERIA NOT ACTUALLY WRITTEN DOWN, BUT, YOU KNOW, WELL, ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS, WE'LL JUST SAY THAT.
AND SO THAT KIND OF LEADS US TO WHERE WE'RE AT TODAY.
AND SO, SO I'M AN ADVOCATE FOR LET'S JUST LET'S JUST GET RID OF THIS THING.
BE DONE WITH IT. WE CAN HAVE ANOTHER COMMITTEE.
YOU KNOW, LIKE CHERYL, CHERYL ADVOCATES FOR ANOTHER COMMITTEE.
COME ALONG AND TAKE A LOOK AND AND SEE WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT THAT WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT, BUT I JUST I DON'T SEE ANY USE TO THIS THING.
YEAH. BUT IN ORDER FOR US TO IGNORE IT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE ORDINANCE.
WE, YOU KNOW, SO JUST TO SAY, YOU KNOW, AND I KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH IT, BUT THERE'S A PROCESS THAT WE GOTTA GO THROUGH TO GET TO WHERE WE DECIDE AS A BOARD THAT TO ELIMINATE THE SETBACKS.
NO, I, I AGREE WITH YOU. I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE WE DO IT RIGHT NOW OR TONIGHT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
YEAH. MATTER OF FACT, IT'S CREATING MORE PROBLEMS THAN IT'S WORTH. DOES THAT MEAN THERE'S NO CRITERIA? SO YEAH, THERE WOULD BE NO REVIEW OF THE SEPARATION OF HOUSES FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL APPLICATION.
YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD BASICALLY HAVE TO FACTOR INTO YOUR DECISION MAKING PROCESS ON YOUR OWN IF YOU KNOW, THIS IS CLEARLY A RESIDENTIAL AREA. HOUSES ON TOP OF EACH OTHER, SHORT TERM RENTALS. I THINK WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SUBJECTIVITY. I THIS IS I CAN'T FIND THIS ON A WEBSITE, BUT IT'S A COUNTY OF WARREN DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING AND IT SAYS TWO.
AND I REMEMBER THIS FROM, YOU KNOW, LAST YEAR OR SOMETHING.
AND I'M JUST GOING TO READ THE FIRST SENTENCE UNDER PURPOSE AND BACKGROUND.
A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT ALLOWS THE COUNTY, THROUGH A PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS, TO CONSIDER SPECIAL USES, WHICH MAY BE ESSENTIAL OR DESIRABLE TO A PARTICULAR COMMUNITY, BUT WHICH ARE NOT ALLOWED AS A MATTER OF RIGHT WITHIN A ZONING DISTRICT.
AND AND THERE'S NOT ONLY SETBACK ISSUES, BUT THE THE FOR ME, THE TWO PARAMETERS THAT ENTER INTO ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY DON'T, YOU KNOW, ARE TRYING TO TO NOT LET IT BE APPROVED? AND THEN IS IT IS THE WAIVER, YOU KNOW, 60% REQUEST OR 10FT OR 2FT? I MEAN SO THOSE ARE TWO THINGS. BUT WHILE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS, WHAT WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT WHAT IT WHAT THIS AND I DON'T KNOW, IS THIS AN ORDINANCE? IS THIS DOES THIS THIS IS AN INFORMATIONAL MEMO, PROBABLY JUST A LETTER OF INFORMATION.
[01:35:01]
AND SO WHEN AN ENTIRE HOA OR LIKE AT THE BOARD OF AN HOA IS SAYING OUR HOA RECOMMENDED AGAINST THIS, THEN DOES THAT HAVE GRAVITY OR IS IT JUST ONE NEIGHBOR AND THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS FINE? WELL, I MEAN, MY COUNTERARGUMENT WOULD BE IF THE HOA PRESIDENT IS A ROGUE AGENT AND IS JUST AGAINST EVERYTHING AND THE COMMUNITY HAS FAILED TO REPLACE THIS PERSON, IT HAPPENS WAY TOO OFTEN. AND SO SO YEAH, BASICALLY THE COMMUNITY ACTUALLY WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN THE HOA.OKAY. YEAH. SO SO THEN IT'S BACK TO INDIVIDUAL EMAILERS OR LETTER WRITERS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.
BECAUSE AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE THAT PUBLIC HEARING.
SO THERE'S TWO STABS THAT THE THE IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORS AND NEIGHBORS WITHIN THAT SUBDIVISION, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT, HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME OUT AND SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST PROVIDE THEIR CONCERNS FOR IT.
THAT PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
AND WE'VE HAD A NUMBER OF PEOPLE SAY, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT.
AND WE'VE HAD PEOPLE WHO HAVE SAID, MY PRIVACY, MY SECURITY.
I FEEL THREATENED. I DON'T WANT THIS. AND THE BOARD HAS BEEN RESPECTFUL OF THAT ALSO.
SO THEY'VE THEY'VE WEIGHED THESE FACTORS IN. THESE ARE SUBJECTIVITIES.
RIGHT? I MEAN IT'S SUBJECTIVE. IT IS COMPLETE.
AND ALSO, YOU DON'T KNOW IF THE NEIGHBORS LIKE EACH OTHER.
NO. THAT'S VERY TRUE. THAT COMES INTO PLAY AS WELL.
AND IT'S ONE OF THESE THINGS WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY CHOICE AS TO WHO YOUR IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE BUYING THAT FOR, IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE A PERMANENT RESIDENT THERE, YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S AGAINST THE LAW TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST SOMEBODY IN THAT CASE.
AND IF IT'S A SHORT TERM RENTAL, WELL, THEY'RE ONLY GOING TO BE THERE FOR A LITTLE BIT.
THE ONLY FACTOR THAT WOULD, WOULD WOULD REALLY APPLY HERE.
THE ONLY FACT THAT I SEE IS THAT THE THAT THE PERSON WHO THE, THE MANAGER OR WHOEVER OWNS THAT SHORT TERM RENTAL THEY MAY BE TRYING TO LOOK AT HOW CAN I GET THIS THING FULL ALL THE TIME? WELL, I'LL JUST I'LL JUST LOWER THE PRICE, AND THEN I GET YOU KNOW, ALL OF THESE URCHINS COMING IN HERE, AND. YEAH, WELL, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE IF EVERYBODY ELSE IS CHARGING, YOU KNOW, $500 A NIGHT, YOU CHARGE $150 A NIGHT.
WELL, GUESS WHAT TYPE OF PEOPLE YOU'RE GOING TO GET IN THERE. IT'S GOING TO ATTRACT THE PEOPLE THAT THAT YOU KNOW THEY HAVE AND THAT THAT MAY BE A PROBLEM RIGHT THERE. BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO SELECTING YOUR NEIGHBORS OR ACCEPTING YOUR NEIGHBORS, IF THEY'RE PERMANENT, YOU HAVE A CHOICE. AND THAT GUY COULD SHOW UP AND YOU KNOW, THE B, B THE BIGGEST, YOU KNOW, BIKER IN THE WORLD. AND, AND AT 3:00 IN THE MORNING BE, YOU KNOW, RUNNING HIS HARLEY AND, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN CALL THE COPS, BUT YOU CAN'T DEMAND THAT HE MOVES OUT OR, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SO THAT'S WHY I TAKE A LOOK AT THIS, THIS 100 FOOT SETBACK AND I GO, WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S OTHER CRITERIA THAT WE CAN USE, BUT THIS IS ONE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WE CONSISTENTLY TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND WAIVE IT.
BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AND. AND YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE IT, THEN USE IT.
IF WE'RE NOT, IF WE'RE IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO USE IT, THEN LET'S DON'T HAVE IT.
AND I WANT TO BE CONSISTENT ON WHATEVER WE DO.
SO THAT'S THAT'S THE WAY I LOOK AT IT BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S NOTHING BUT A PEBBLE IN OUR SHOE.
RIGHT. I MEAN, I WANTED TO MAKE A POINT ON SLIDE FOUR WHERE THE 20 2024 TEXT AMENDMENTS TO THE ORDINANCE, THE FIRST BULLET MAKING THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT A GENERAL REQUIREMENT THAT CANNOT BE WAIVED.
AND THEN YOU PUT NEITHER THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR THE BOARD PREFERRED THIS APPROACH.
WELL, JUST FOR THE RECORD, I, I APPROVE I, I LIKE THIS APPROACH.
DID YOU JUST WANT TO PUT THAT ON THE RECORD? I KNOW, I KNOW, IT WAS A VOTE.
I KNEW IT WAS A VOTE. BUT I WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THAT WAS WHERE I THOUGHT TO KIND OF PIGGYBACK WITH MR. BUTLER JUST SAID, YEAH, YEAH. I MEAN, I'LL JUST I'LL JUST A COUPLE QUICK POINTS.
OKAY. HOW HOW CAN I REPORT PROBLEMS. OKAY. SO WE DO HAVE A REPORTING PROCEDURE.
YOU CAN GO ONLINE AND REPORT IT THROUGH A ZONING PERMIT.
[01:40:03]
FILLABLE ZONING, SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT. WE TRY AND PROVIDE THIS SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT.DO WE HAVE SOME WAY TO CLOSE THAT LOOP, THOUGH? DID YOU REPORT SOMETHING? AND I NEVER HEAR ANYTHING.
YOU KNOW, SO THAT COALITION WORKS WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS SOMEBODY SOMEBODY MAKES A COMPLAINT.
OKAY. DID THEY DID THEY GET SOME TYPE OF FEEDBACK ON THAT COMPLAINT, LIKE.
YEAH, WE LOOKED INTO IT. YOU KNOW, OF OR, YOU KNOW, THE YOU CONTACT THE SHERIFF AND THE SHERIFF SAYS, YEAH, I WENT OVER AND KNOCKED ON THEIR DOOR AND TOLD THEM TO, HEY, TONE IT DOWN.
YEAH WE ACTUALLY REALLY DON'T GET A WHOLE LOT OF COMPLAINTS FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS.
THE ONES THAT I HAVE GOTTEN COMPLAINTS FOR ARE TYPICALLY THE SAME ONES.
OH, NO, NO NO, NO. THE FIRST ONE I THOUGHT OF IS $1,000 A NIGHT.
BUT ANYWAY. OH. GOOD LORD. YEAH. SO, YOU KNOW, WE WORK WITH THE OPERATOR TO AND A LOT OF TIMES THESE OWNERS DON'T, DON'T WANT TO SEE THEIR NEIGHBORS GET PUNISHED OR ANYTHING. THEY JUST WANT THE PROBLEM TO STOP. YOU KNOW, IF THE IF THE GUESTS ARE BEING LOUD OR TRESPASSING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
BUT THE THE COMPLAINTS THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED I'M BASICALLY A BORDERLINE FRIENDS WITH THE COMPLAINER BECAUSE OF YOU KNOW, THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAVE. SO, YES, I'M COMMUNICATIVE WITH THEM.
OKAY. YEAH, BUT THEY ALSO CAN GO ON THE WEBSITE.
IT WAS PART OF OUR SOLUTION. BUT BUT I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS SOME TYPE OF A CLOSURE OR FEEDBACK BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, LIKE HOW MANY OF THESE CUPS HAVE BEEN REVOKED FOR SHORT TERM TOURS? NO, NO. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. WE HAVE ONE ON PROBATION.
OKAY. YOU MIGHT SEE IT NEXT WEEK. SO THEN SO.
SO THEN PROBATION. SO THEN I TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND GO, OKAY, SO HAS THIS 100 FOOT SETBACK.
HAS THAT REALLY STOPPED ANY PROBLEMS? HAS THAT 100 FOOT SETBACK.
IT'S BEEN MORE EFFECTIVE AS A WEEDING OUT APPLICATIONS I WOULD SAY AS AN IMPLEMENT FOR THAT.
SO IF SOME OF THAT WANTS TO DO THIS, THAT'S LOOKING FOR AN IDEAL PROPERTY.
WE TELL THEM THERE'S A 100 FOOT SETBACK. THE HOUSE THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT DOESN'T MEET IT. THEY MOVE ON TO THE NEXT PROPERTY THAT'S FOR SALE. YOU KNOW, SO IT'S MORE OF A REDUCING IMPACT REDUCING APPLICATIONS OR OH, WE'RE ALL WE'RE DOING.
ALL WE'RE DOING IS JUST CLOSE THAT ORIFICE A LITTLE BIT.
BUT IS IT DOING ANYTHING FOR US? I'M. I'LL JUST.
I'LL JUST BRING THIS UP. OKAY. SO IN KELLY'S DATA THAT SHE'S PROVIDED TO YOU, LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE HERE, 1% CALCULATED 1% OF THE 17,981 UNITS DWELLING UNITS IN THE COUNTY IS BEING USED AS SHORT TERM RENTALS.
OKAY. 1%. OKAY. FIVE OF THOSE. THAT'S 1%. THAT'S 170 188.
ACTUALLY, THAT'S HOW MANY? 106. 170. THAT'S RIGHT.
ONE 169. WE HAVE. RIGHT. I COULD HAVE 181. YEAH.
WELL, I JUST IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THAT MIGHT SEEM LIKE THAT.
THAT I MEAN, THERE'S THERE'S FOLKS SINCE I'LL JUST SAY NOT ALL, BUT SINCE 2000, 21 HAVE BROUGHT IN A MILLION, $337,335.31 IN TRANSIENT LODGING TO THE COUNTY.
OKAY. AND THAT'S AFTER SHE TOOK OUT ALL THE HOTEL TRANSIENT LODGING.
OKAY. BUT IT DOES INCLUDE THE TOWN OF RANDOLPH.
SHE DOES HAVE A LITTLE NOTE THERE. OKAY. SO IN THE IN THE FIVE YEARS, RIGHT.
IN THE FIVE YEARS, IN THE FIVE YEARS, BROUGHT IN 1 MILLION.
RIGHT. SO UNDER FIVE YEARS. OKAY. SO SO THAT'S ABOUT $200,000, AN AVERAGE OF 200,000 A YEAR.
OF THOSE 188. YEAH. WE HAVE MAYBE A COUPLE PROBLEM CHILDREN.
ONE THAT AGAIN MAY BE GETTING REVOKED AT SOME POINT IN TIME.
OKAY HERE'S MY REQUEST. IF YOU DO HAVE A COMMITTEE STAFF, YOU KNOW, WILL BE HAPPY TO SPEND THEIR TIME PUTTING THINGS TOGETHER FOR YOUR COMMITTEE AND ADDRESSING IT.
I WOULD JUST ASK THAT A HARD DECISION BE MADE TO EITHER REMOVE IT OR PUT IT IN THE DEFINITION.
[01:45:05]
SO EITHER KEEP IT AS A HARD 100FT OR JUST REMOVE IT COMPLETELY AND USE OTHER FACTORING CRITERIA FOR FOR FUTURE APPLICATIONS. QUESTION FOR MISS CALLERS. SO WE HAD A COMMITTEE LAST YEAR DIDN'T WE? OR WAS IT WAS THE YEAR WE HAD WE HAD SEVERAL WORK SESSIONS.NO. NO IT WAS NOT A GOVERNMENT SPONSORED COMMITTEE.
IT WAS A GROUP OF HOA'S MET AND FORMED A GROUP.
OKAY. IT'S A COLLECTION OF HOA PO IS THE REASON I'M ASKING THIS IS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE PUT TOGETHER A COMMITTEE, THEY CAME UP WITH ALL THESE RECOMMENDATIONS. WE LOOK AT THEM, WE TALK ABOUT THEM, WE ADOPT A COUPLE.
IT SEEMS TO ME LET'S JUST CUT TO THE CHASE. THE FIRST THING WE WANT TO DO IS TAKE A LOOK AT THIS, THIS 100 FOOT SETBACK. LET'S DO SOMETHING. EITHER SAY KEEP IT AND THERE'S NO WAIVERS, OR LET'S GET RID OF IT.
THAT'S THAT'S WHERE I STAND. MR. LENS WILL BE HAPPY TO WRITE THAT CODE.
WHATEVER YOU WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST. HE'D BE HAPPY TO TO TO DO THAT.
AND DO WHAT? JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON WHAT MR. WENDLING SAID, THERE ARE TWO OF YOU HAVE INDICATED YOU'D LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING VOTING THIS UP OR DOWN AND BE DONE WITH IT. YEAH. WELL, AS A SUGGESTION I SAY, WHAT SLIDE IS THIS? YOU HAVE TO PUT NUMBERS ON YOUR SIDE. SO 12345678 WAIVER CRITERIA DISCUSSED IN 2023. THE WARREN COUNTY COALITION OF COMMUNITY ASSOCIATIONS.
HAVE SUBMITTED SUGGESTIONS FOR CRITERIA FOR WAIVING THE 100 FOOT SETBACK.
SO MAYBE WE CAN START FROM THERE. THE CRITERIA WERE NOT LEGAL.
I'LL JUST TELL YOU RIGHT NOW THEY WERE VERY ARBITRARY BASED.
SOME OF THEM WERE STRAIGHT UP DISCRIMINATORY.
WELL, THEN IF YOU WERE AN LLC, YOU CANNOT DO IT.
IT SAYS NO WAIVER SHALL BE GRANTED FOR LESS THAN 60FT OF SEPARATION.
IS THAT ILLEGAL? NO. MY ARGUMENT WOULD BE WHY IS THE SETBACK NOT 60FT? WELL, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF HAVING THIS DISCUSSION, RIGHT? OKAY, SO THAT'S NOT ILLEGAL. THE INDIVIDUAL REQUESTING THE WAIVER ALSO OWNS AGENT RESIDENCE WITHIN 100 FOOT OF CERTAIN CONDITIONS ARE MET. YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S REASONABLE OR NOT, BUT BUT I REALLY, YOU KNOW, THINK THAT MAYBE WE CAN TAKE THESE SUGGESTIONS AND AND START THERE. OR HEY, I CAN AGREE WITH THAT ALSO.
YOU KNOW, INTUITIVELY THE IDEA OF A COMMITTEE AND HAVING IT THE THREE 60 LIKE THE OPERATORS, THE HOMEOWNERS, THE HOMEOWNERS, YOU KNOW, INTUITIVELY THAT'S GOOD.
BUT THEY'RE ALL IF YOU IF YOU'RE DOING 360, THEY'RE OPPOSED, LIKE PEOPLE WHO ARE WHO WANT TO DEVELOP THESE ARE GOING TO BE OPPOSED TO PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WHO ARE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, FOR EXAMPLE. SO HOW HOW DOES THE COMMITTEE IN A CIRCLE COME TO SOMETHING THAT'S AND WHO'S GOING TO BE THE DETERMINING VOTE? YOU KNOW, IS THAT.
WELL, FRANKLY, I, I'VE ONLY WORKED HERE A FEW YEARS NOW.
I DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH COMMITTEES, BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU REFER ITEMS TO THEM TO GET A RECOMMENDATION, AS THE PLANNING COMMISSION DOES WITH MOST OF OUR STUFF, EXCEPT FOR IT'S JUST BUILT IN INSTEAD OF YOU REFERRING IT.
AND SO I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S KIND OF ON YOU TO USE THAT RECOMMENDATION, IF THAT'S THE PROCESS.
YOU KNOW, IF IT'S SPLIT DOWN THE MIDDLE, THEN CLEARLY IT WASN'T STRAIGHTFORWARD. THIS IS THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I'M TAKING A LOOK AT THIS AND SAY, YOU KNOW, WE'VE WE HAVE KICKED THIS CAN AND KICKED THIS CAN DOWN THE ROAD.
LET'S MAKE A DECISION ON IT. THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO DO.
I MEAN, WE CAN DO ALL THE COMMITTEES IN THE WORLD THAT WE WANT TO.
YOU KNOW, WE CAN HAVE ALL THESE HOA'S COME IN AND AND DO THIS AND AND TALK ABOUT IT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I JUST, I, I WANT TO MAKE A DECISION AND BE DONE WITH IT AND SAY, OKAY, THAT'S IT.
YEAH. YOU KNOW, WE EITHER STICK WITH THE 100FT AND AND THERE'S NO WAIVERS.
NO OR. RIGHT, OR WE SAY, OKAY, GET RID OF IT BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE AROUND US DOES IT BECAUSE.
RIGHT. BECAUSE THE WAY. YEAH, IT'S VERY SUBJECTIVE.
YEAH. IT'S VERY SUBJECTIVE. IT IS VERY SUBJECTIVE.
I'LL SAY YES. AND THIS ONE OVER HERE. WELL, I DON'T KNOW.
I JUST GET THAT WARM AND NOT SO FUZZY FEELING.
SO. NO. OKAY, LET ME JUST ASK IN ORDER TO JUST MOVE ON.
SO CURRENTLY WE HAVE 12 IN PROCESS. THE REAR TABLE.
OKAY. THEY WOULD FALL UNDER THE CURRENT ORDINANCE, I BELIEVE LEGALLY THEY WOULD HAVE TO YOU WOULD HAVE TO MAKE YOUR DECISION BASED ON THE CURRENT ORDINANCE.
LEGALLY. I BELIEVE THE ATTORNEY WOULD SUPPORT THAT.
[01:50:02]
WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO GRANT STAFF THE ABILITY TO TO NOT TAKE ANY OF THESE IN? AS OF TODAY, AS TO UNTIL THE COBRA WAS DISCUSSED AND REVISED AND AMENDED. HOWEVER YOU WANT IT AND THEN JUST GET THROUGH THE 12 THAT ARE CURRENTLY WON IN THE PROCESS.OKAY. MY QUESTION. MY QUESTION IS HOW LONG IS THIS GOING TO TAKE? AT LEAST THREE MONTHS. THREE MONTHS, AT LEAST THREE MONTHS. IF THE MOVE IS TO GET RID OF THE 100 FOOT.
IF THE TEXT AMENDMENT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS TO GET RID OF THE 100 FOOT SETBACK, THEN YEAH, IF WE DID A JOINT SESSION, IT COULD BE TWO MONTHS IN THEORY.
AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
THAT'S ANOTHER SUBJECTIVE COMMENT. I JUST DON'T WANT TO DRAFT ANYTHING AND THEN HAVE IT, YOU KNOW, BE A YEAR OF WORK SESSIONS AGAIN. YOU KNOW, IT'S.
YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S NOT PRODUCTIVE. YEAH. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A SURE THING WHETHER WE'D HAVE THREE VOTES OR NOT, BUT I COULD SEE, YOU KNOW, PUTTING SOMETHING TOGETHER FOR US TO VOTE ON OR TO DISCUSS ONE MORE TIME IN THAT VOTE.
AND GRANDFATHER, THE ONES THAT ARE IN THE QUEUE.
PUT THE PAUSE ON NEW APPLICANTS UNTIL THIS IS RESOLVED.
UNLESS THEY'RE ABOVE 100FT, IN WHICH CASE THEY WOULD BE OKAY NO MATTER WHAT.
OKAY. JUST, JUST. YOU COULD HOLD THEM IN THE QUEUE, SIR.
I WOULDN'T, YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T EVEN GO THAT FAR.
YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. WE'LL WILL DO. WOULD YOU LIKE US TO SCHEDULE? AT LEAST ONE MEETING IS COLORS. TO ADDRESS THIS.
OR WOULD YOU LIKE US TO DRAFT A COUPLE OF OPTIONS FOR YOU TO REVIEW? WELL, WHEN YOU SAY A COUPLE OF OPTIONS. WHAT? WHAT DO YOU MEAN? WELL, I'VE DONE THIS BEFORE.
THE FIRST OPTION WAS TO HAVE TO DO IS REPURPOSE WHAT YOU DID TWO YEARS AGO.
YEAH, YEAH. I MEAN, LIKE LIKE YOU SAID, I'VE GOT DRAFTED ALREADY, BUT.
YEAH. OPTION ONE WAS TO DELETE IT. OPTION TWO WAS TO MOVE IT TO WHERE YOU CAN'T WAIVE IT.
AND THAT'S BASICALLY AS FAR AS WE GOT. YEP. WELL HOW ABOUT IF WE DO THIS.
OPTION ONE. OPTION ONE. DELETE IT. OPTION TWO.
KEEP IT. OPTION THREE GO WITH GO WITH THE COMMITTEE.
SO, SO THAT WE CAN I THINK 50FT WITH NO WAIVERS IS AN OPTION SO THAT WE CAN STUDY THIS THING TO DEATH 50FT IN THE IN THE ACTUAL DEFINITION. YEAH. WITH WITH NO WAIVERS OR 50FT IN THE DEFINITION OR NO WINDOW? ZERO. THERE YOU GO. I WILL REMIND YOU THAT THE 4 OR 5 WE'VE SEEN IN DONNA COURT WOULD NOT BE ELIGIBLE IF WE CHANGE THAT.
AND SO THE REMAINING HOUSES. YEAH, I JUST WANT TO POINT THAT OUT.
AND THAT'S KIND OF WHY WE DIDN'T GET ANYWHERE. BECAUSE LIKE THE PLANNING COMMISSION POINTED OUT, EXAMPLE AFTER EXAMPLE OF WHEN WE NEED A WAIVER PROCESS BECAUSE IT REALLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO APPLY HERE. AND SO THAT'S WHY THEY OPPOSED GETTING RID OF IT.
BUT WE MAKE THE DECISION HERE. THAT'S CORRECT.
ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE DIRECTION. THANK YOU. OKAY.
WELL WHAT DIRECTION WE GOT BECAUSE I'M NOT REAL CLEAR ON THE DIRECTION. ZERO 5100.
WE WILL WE WILL DRAFT. WE WILL DRAFT IT ZERO 50 OR 100 AN AMENDMENT.
OKAY. PROVIDE PROVIDE IT TO YOU NEXT MONTH AT A WORK SESSION.
IS THAT FINE? DOCTOR DALEY AT A WORK SESSION.
OR WE CAN TAKE IT DIRECTLY TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
LIKE IT? BECAUSE THEY HAVE. IT HAS TO GO TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION FIRST.
IF YOU'D LIKE, WE CAN DO THAT. ALL I WANT TO DO IS GET THIS THING RESOLVED.
WELL, SEND IT TO THE PLANET, RIGHT? WE GOT TO FOLLOW THE PROCESS.
I'M NOT OPPOSED TO COMMITTEES, BUT WHAT I'M OPPOSED TO IS ADMIRING THE PROBLEM, BECAUSE WE'VE LOOKED AT THIS BEFORE, ADMIRING THE PROBLEM AND STUDYING THIS PROBLEM TO DEATH, AND THEN STILL COME UP WITH NOTHING.
SO THE WAY I UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO GO FORWARD, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THOSE THREE OPTIONS, AND YOU'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, GO THROUGH THAT PLANNING COMMISSION PROCESS, AND THEN IT'LL BE COMING BACK TO THE BOARD, AND THEN WE'LL RULE ON IT FOR PUBLIC HEARINGS.
[01:55:05]
YEAH, THERE WILL BE A PUBLIC HEARING OR WHATEVER. AND WE'LL WE'LL RULE ON IT.AND SO I DON'T GET IN TROUBLE. I WILL ABSOLUTELY LET THE WC THREE KNOW THAT WE'RE DOING THIS.
WELL, I THINK THEY REALLY NEED TO BE PART OF THIS BECAUSE I THINK THEY DO SERVE A GOOD PURPOSE FOR THESE SHORT TERM RENTALS BECAUSE WE I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY FOLLOW THROUGH, BUT WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE COMPLAINTS SOMETIMES GO TO THEM THAT THEY'RE KIND OF LIKE IN BETWEEN, I DON'T KNOW, THAT'S WHAT I'D HEARD, YOU KNOW.
AND THEN THEY COME BACK AND TALK TO WHOEVER IS THE SHORT TERM RENTAL REPRESENTATIVE.
I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. BUT IF I'M INCORRECT, THEN, YOU KNOW.
YEAH. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
TWO MINUTE BREAK. CAN CAN WE HAVE A JUST A TAKE A TWO MINUTE BREAK, AND THEN WE WILL GO INTO THE ROAD NAMING POLICIES. NO, WAIT A MINUTE. I'M SORRY.
THE. YEAH, THE ROAD NAMING POLICIES AND PROCEDURES.
I'M SORRY, BUT. OKAY. HOW ABOUT IF WE BE BACK RIGHT NOW? I'VE GOT 756 ON MY MY CLOCK. CAN WE BE BACK BY 80505? SO WE HAD TWO ITEMS THAT WERE DISCUSSED AT THE LAST BOARD MEETING RELATING TO ROAD NAMING AND
[D. Discussion - Road Naming policies and procedures - Matt Wendling ]
THE ROOM NAMING PROCEDURES FOR THE COUNTY, AND WHY WE DO CERTAIN NAMES AND FOLLOW CERTAIN PROCESSES AND WHATNOT.AND SINCE WE HAVE ONE OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS HERE WHO WILL BE IMPACTED BY ONE OF THOSE ROAD NAMES.
MR.. CRAIG TABOR HERE, AND HE LIVES AT 573. IT'S ADDRESS CURRENTLY OFF DOGWOOD FARM ROAD, WHICH IS THAT LOWER ROAD YOU SEE BENDING IN THE LOWER LEFT PORTION OF THE PICTURE.
OKAY. AND MR. TABOR HAS SUBMITTED THIS EVENING COMMENTS TO YOU THROUGH AN EMAIL HE SENT TODAY AFTER MR. GRIFFITH AND I MET WITH HIM TO DISCUSS THIS MATTER.
AND ATTEMPT TO FIND SOME SORT OF A SOLUTION OR ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION THAT WAS COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE. I'LL JUST PRESENT IT OUR SIDE. OR AS THE CODE REQUIRES, AS WE PERCEIVE THE CODE. AS THE GIS COORDINATOR, MR. GRIFFITH PERCEIVES AND ADDRESSES THE CODE LANGUAGE.
THIS IS WHAT HE HAS PROPOSED, BASICALLY. THE RIGHT OF WAY THAT YOU SEE IS A PLATTED RIGHT OF WAY.
IT GOES BACK A NUMBER OF YEARS. IN SHENANDOAH FARMS. AND BUT THAT RIGHT AWAY WAS NOT SHOWN IN THE GIS.
AND AT PREVIOUS TIMES, WHEN THE FIRST HOUSE AT 563 WAS ADDRESSED AND WHEN MR. TAYLOR'S HOUSE WAS ADDRESSED.
NOW, MR. TABOR MENTIONED HIS HOUSE WAS BUILT TEN YEARS AGO, AND HE'S LIVED THERE ABOUT FOUR YEARS.
OKAY. SO OUR GIS COORDINATORS IN THE TIME I'VE BEEN HERE ALL HAVE ALL INTERPRETED THE ORDINANCE. IT'S AND THIS IS NOT ZONING.
THIS IS ROAD NAMING AND ADDRESSING ORDINANCES.
OKAY. THEY'VE INTERPRETED THEM THE SAME WAY. BASICALLY, AT THE AT THE POINT A THIRD PERMIT IS ISSUED ON A EITHER RIGHT AWAY OR AN EASEMENT FOR A PROPERTY, FOR A PROPERTY DWELLING.
THEY WILL THEN APPLY FOR A ROAD NAME CHANGE AFTER SUBMITTING APPLICATIONS TO ALL OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS TO PROVIDE AT LEAST THREE DIFFERENT NAMES THAT THEY'D LIKE TO HAVE THAT ROAD NAMED.
AND COMING TO A CONCLUSION, HOPEFULLY BETWEEN ALL OF THEM, THAT'S EQUITABLE.
AND THEN HE HE OR AT THE TIME, EMMA RUSNAK WAS A GIS COORDINATOR.
[02:00:06]
THEY WOULD SUBMIT THAT ROAD NAME REQUEST TO THE BOARD AS A CONSENT ITEM.OKAY. TYPICALLY IT WASN'T VERY CONTENTIOUS. PEOPLE WERE JUST LIKE, OKAY, IT'S E911.
SO MR. GRIFFITH FOLLOWED THE SAME PROCESS BASICALLY.
HE'S HE'S HE'S FOLLOWED SINCE HE'S BEEN HERE AND AND AND CARRIED ON FROM PREVIOUS GIS COORDINATORS.
THAT IS TO BE NAMED ALSO. SO HE NOTIFIED THE ADJACENT PROPERTY, THE PROPERTY OWNERS ALONG THIS ROAD, MR. TABER BEING ONE OF THEM.
THAT THE ROAD NEEDED TO BE CHANGED. AND THEIR ADDRESS AND THE ADDRESS OF THE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER WOULD ALSO CHANGE WITH THE NAMING OF THAT ROAD. I'LL JUST SAY THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT MR. GRIFFITH HAS HAD TO DO THIS OR ANY OF THE GIS COORDINATORS.
MANY TIMES IN THE PAST, WHEN THIS TYPE OF THING COMES UP SITUATION COMES UP.
PEOPLE ARE INCONVENIENCED BY HAVING TO CHANGE THE, THEIR, THEIR ADDRESSES, WHICH SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT HE'S HAD TO CHANGE HIS ADDRESS MORE THAN ONCE AND HAS NEVER MOVED? NO, BUT I'M JUST SPEAKING TO THIS SPECIFIC CONDITION.
OKAY. HE'S LIVED HERE FOR FOUR YEARS. OKAY. AND IN HIS, OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH HIM IS BOTH HE AND HIS WIFE HAVE BUSINESSES THAT ARE ESTABLISHED. AND IT WOULD BE A SEVERE INCONVENIENCE, AND OF COURSE, TO HIM. HOME BASED BUSINESS. HOME BASED BUSINESS.
YEAH. HE'S BEEN. YEAH IT'S A NON PROFIT. AND HE COULD YOU KNOW I COULD IS ONE OF THEM.
SO HE'S, HE'S COMPLIANT IN THAT REGARD. SO IT WOULD BE VERY INCONVENIENT TO HIM.
I MEAN, HE'S RECENTLY UPDATED HIS DRIVER'S LICENSE, YOU KNOW, TO TO BE ABLE TO GO ON THE AIRPLANE AND ALL THAT STUFF. TRAVEL. SO AT A COST AND ALL THAT STUFF COST YOU AND SO THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT HAPPEN WHEN WE USE OUR CODE, WHEN WE'RE, WE FOLLOW THE RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR ROAD NAMING AND ADDRESSING PROPERTIES IN THE COUNTY.
AND E911 SYSTEM HAS BEEN HERE SINCE, I THINK 1996.
THEY STARTED IT. WE WENT THE STATE WANT FROM A ROAD, A ROUTE SYSTEM TO THE E911.
IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE THE PREVIOUS GIS COORDINATOR JUST ADDRESSED BOTH MR. NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE AND THE OTHER HOUSE OFF OF DOGWOOD FARM ROAD.
AND WHERE IS THAT? THIS IS IN SHENANDOAH FARM.
SO OLD OAK LANE IS THE THE LONG ROAD THAT YOU SEE ON THE THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE.
OKAY. OKAY. SO IT'S OVER KIND OF ON THAT EAST SIDE OF, OF SHENANDOAH FARMS. OKAY. YOU SEE THE STAR THERE? I'M SORRY. OH, YEAH.
YEAH. POINT TO POINT TO THE STAR THERE IN THE INSET MAP.
SEE WHERE THE INSET MAP IS? THERE. CHASE UP IN THE RIGHT CORNER OR LEFT CORNER.
YEAH. THERE YOU GO. SO THERE YOU ARE. OKAY. NO, NO, WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS THE.
WELL YOU CAN. YEAH. WHAT ARE YOU. WHAT ARE YOU ASKING? LIKE HIS HOUSE. HIS. IT'S ALL OAK LANE. YEAH.
THAT'S. WHICH ROAD IS DOGWOOD FARM ROAD. YES.
YEAH, YEAH. THERE YOU GO. THAT'S DOGWOOD FARM, RIGHT.
YEAH. SO THE OTHER ROAD IS OLD OAK LANE. OKAY.
AND THE ROAD THAT IS BEING PROPOSED FOR A NEW NAME, WHICH MR. GRIFFITH SENT OUT THE REQUEST TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS ABOUT WHAT THEY'D LIKE TO NAME THE ROAD.
OKAY. GAVE THEM THE OPTIONS. ONE PROPERTY OWNER SAID HE DIDN'T CARE WHAT YOU NAMED IT.
THE OTHER PROPERTY OWNER PROVIDED HIM THREE, THREE OPTIONS.
AND MR. TABOR DID NOT SUBMIT ANY OPTIONS. I DID NOT SEE ANY IN OUR DOCUMENTATION.
[02:05:01]
OKAY. SO. SO MR. GRIFFITH CHOSE OF THE THREE HIDDEN HAMMOCK LANE AND FOLLOWED THE PROCEDURES TO BRING THAT FORWARD TO THE BOARD.AS FAR AS THE NAMING OF A NEW PRIVATE ROAD FOR PUBLIC USE WITHIN SHADOW FARMS. IT'S NOT A STATE ROAD. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE MAINTAINED BY THE STATE. PROBABLY.
WELL, WE COULD GET INTO THE MAINTENANCE PART OF IT, BUT THIS IS IN THE SHADOW FARM SUBDIVISION, SO IT MIGHT FALL WITHIN THE SANITARY DISTRICT.
I HAVE NOT GOTTEN THAT INFORMATION BACK SO THE SANITARY DISTRICT WOULD MAINTAIN.
SO LET'S JUST PRETEND WE DON'T HAVE A SANITARY DISTRICT.
SO THE ANSWER WOULD BE YES. YEAH. YEAH, IT'D BE A PRIVATE ROAD.
MAYBE A PRIVATE ROAD. THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HE DOES.
PROPERTY OWNERS WILL HAVE TO. PROPERTY OWNERS WOULD DO NOW ON A DRIVEWAY FOR TWO PEOPLE OR.
YEAH, BUT IT WOULD BE A PRIVATE ROAD. TECHNICALLY, FOR PUBLIC USE, BUT PRIVATE.
IT'S A PRIVATE ROAD. OKAY, SO MY QUESTION, YOU KNOW, TO TO UNDERSTAND THIS RIGHT AWAY.
OKAY. APPARENTLY IT BELONGED TO A BUILDER, A DEVELOPER.
THESE LOTS. YEAH. RIGHT. RIGHT, RIGHT. YEAH, YEAH.
WHEN IT WAS ORIGINALLY PLATTED. YEAH. ALL RIGHT.
SO WHEN A BUILDER HAS THIS LAND THAT THEY WANT TO BUILD HOMES ON.
YEAH. AND THEY HAVE THIS RIGHT AWAY. AND SO THEY START BUILDING UP TO UP TO THREE, BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN IT TRIGGERS THIS ORDINANCE. DON'T THE PROPERTY OWNERS KNOW THAT? DON'T THEY EVEN DISCLOSE THAT TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT IF.
THEREFORE, YOUR ADDRESS IS GOING TO CHANGE. I WOULD PROBABLY SAY NO DISCLOSED TO THOSE PEOPLE.
BUT IN A SENSE, WE HAVE OUR WE HAVE OUR RULES.
OKAY. AND PROPERTY OWNERS COULD REVIEW THAT. I MEAN, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THESE HOUSES.
AND DO YOU KNOW WHEN THAT OTHER HOUSE WAS BUILT JUST OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD, I BELIEVE, IN 2013, 2013. SO JUST SHORTLY BEFORE YOURS WAS BUILT.
OH, WHICH I'M SORRY. THE THE HOUSE ON THE CORNER.
THE OTHER. I THINK THEY'RE BOTH CLOSE TO THE SAME TIME.
CLOSE TO THE SAME TIME. OKAY. SO THAT'S HOW THESE RIGHT AWAYS ARE DEVELOPED THEN, RIGHT.
YOU HAVE A BUILDER THAT COMES IN. SO IT WAS PLATTED PRIOR TO THAT WAS PLATTED PRIOR TO THAT.
AND SO THE COUNTY APPROVED THE PLAT? RIGHT. YEAH.
YOU'RE RIGHT. PLANNING DID. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
YEAH. IT'S AN OLD ONE. SO. BUT THE RULE. SO THE RULE IS THE CODE SAYS THAT AT THAT THIRD HOUSE, THAT'S WHEN YOU HAVE TO CHANGE THE NAME OR A NAME. OKAY.
NOW, THE THE DRIVER, THE DRIVER FOR THAT RULE IS A IT'S A STATE CODE.
BUT THE STATE CODE SAYS YOU MAY NOT KNOW. SO THE DRIVER IS OUR CODE.
OKAY. OUR CODE. WHAT I'M SAYING IS WHAT WHAT IS IT THAT IS MAKING US DO THAT? BECAUSE WE JUST DON'T. STATE GIVES US PERMISSION TO DO THAT.
BUT IT IS A SELF-IMPOSED POLICY, ACCORDING TO MR. BOWMAN. ESSENTIALLY, LIKE LIKE VDOT GIVES US.
IS THAT CORRECT? IT'S MORE ABOUT THE PUBLIC SAFETY ASPECT, WHICH IS THE MOTIVATING FACTOR.
IT'S IT'S IT'S MORE THAN THAT. IF YOU READ THE ORDINANCE.
YEAH, I WOULD SAY IT'S IT'S MORE A RULE FOR. E NON ONE ADDRESSING AND AND DISPLAYING IN THE GIS. OKAY. AND I'LL GO TO A COUPLE MORE SLIDES HERE IN A MINUTE. BUT I JUST WANT TO KIND OF CLARIFY THIS.
IT WAS AMENDED BACK IN 1989, AND IT SAYS THIS ARTICLE PROVIDES REAL NAMING RULES THAT ENABLE DISPATCHERS AND DRIVERS OF AMBULANCES AND FIRE TRUCKS TO ACCURATELY AND QUICKLY FIND RESIDENCES.
LIKE MATT JUST POINTED OUT, THE POST OFFICE TO SORT AND DELIVER MAIL MORE EFFICIENTLY.
[02:10:03]
BUSINESSES TO LOCATE ADDRESSES AND ADDRESSES TO FIT STANDARD COMPUTER COMPUTERIZED ADDRESS SPACING.SO IT'S NOT JUST E 911. THE PURPOSE OF THIS AND THE PURPOSE IT WAS CHANGED IN THAT TIME, RIGHT.
IT'S JUST THE TECHNOLOGY HAS CHANGED. THE TECHNOLOGY HAS CHANGED.
YEAH, EXACTLY. AND THAT MAKES THIS ALMOST OBSOLETE.
AND I'LL JUST LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THAT IS THE CONTENTION THAT MR. TABOR HAS MADE. TECHNOLOGY HAS CHANGED TO A POINT NOW WHERE WHETHER WE NEED NAME AND THIS IS HIS PERSPECTIVE ON THE CODE, WHETHER WE NAME CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, WHETHER WE NAME THIS HIDDEN LANE AND PUT NEW ADDRESSES ON IT, OR WE ALLOW IT TO STAY AS THE DOGWOOD FARM ROAD AND LEAVE THE ADDRESSES AND ADDRESS THE NEW HOUSE, WHICH IS.
HERE. THIS IS THE NEW PERMIT FOR A HOUSE. WE HAVE NOT ADDRESSED IT YET.
OKAY. AND MR. TAYLOR'S POINT IS THAT MODERN TECHNOLOGY WILL STILL GET THEM THERE.
EMERGENCY SERVICE? IS THERE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER? OKAY. AT LEAST I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT THE STATE PERIODICALLY GIVES US A LIST OF ROADS THAT ARE IN VIOLATION OF E911 OR OR RIGHT OF WAYS THAT OUR VIOLATION IS THAT.
OKAY. IT DID NOT REACH THAT THIRD HOUSE. IT DOES NOT VIOLATE A.
WELL. IT BASICALLY HASN'T CREATED A SITUATION WHERE IT DOESN'T CONFORM TO WHAT THE THE STATE WANTS TO SEE IN, IN YOUR ADDRESSING SYSTEM.
SO LET ME JUST GO. CAN I GET THAT OTHER SLIDE THERE WITH THE FISHBONE ANALYSIS CALLED FISHBONE? YOU GOTTA TRY THAT ONE. YEP.
LET'S SEE THAT ONE. OKAY, SO THIS IS WHAT THEY CALL FISHBONE ANALYSIS.
OKAY. AND BASICALLY, THIS IS KIND OF WHAT THE STATE WANTS YOU TO STAY AWAY FROM.
WHERE YOU HAVE A LONG ADDRESS INSERTION POINT AND A A ADDRESS END POINT WHERE THEY TEND TO THE LINES ACTUALLY TEND TO INTERSECT.
OKAY. AND IT, IT IN THE GIS AND LOOKING AT THIS, IT'S EASY TO LOOK AT THIS.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU GO OUT WHEN YOU REALLY OWN THE PROPERTY.
YOU'RE NOT SEEING THESE LINES. BUT IN THE ANALYSIS PART OF IT, IT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT TO TO ADEQUATELY AND ACCURATELY ADDRESS PROPERTIES BECAUSE OF THE CROSSOVER THAT YOU SEE.
AND YOU CAN SEE IT. IN THIS YEAR OF THIS MODIFICATION.
SO. OKAY I INTERSECTION COUNT SHOULD BE CHECKED INCORRECTLY.
THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT THE GREATEST ONE. OKAY.
SO MR. SAMEER ASKED US ABOUT THE STATE PROVIDING A REPORT CARD.
YEAH, WE GET A REPORT CARD EVERY SIX MONTHS AND THE STATE PROVIDES THAT TO US.
AND THEY. THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THEY ANALYZE.
OKAY. CAN YOU GO TO THE OTHER FISH? FISHBONE ANALYST ONE.
MAKE IT. THAT'S THE ORIGINAL PLAN OF THE ORIGINAL SUBDIVISION.
OKAY. BACK TO. LET'S SEE HERE.
YEAH. TRY ITEM D THERE. DO YOU DO THAT? GIS REPORT BY THAT.
HEY. ALL RIGHT, WELL, THIS IS THE REPORT THAT WE GET.
OKAY. AND IT CITES A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
NOT JUST THAT FISHBONE ANALYSIS, BUT A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
AND COREY'S WORKED ON THIS, ON ALL OF THE ITEMS THAT THEY'VE CITED US FOR WHICH IT WAS ALMOST ABOUT 200 WHEN HE FIRST STARTED. AND HE'S WORKED ON THIS SINCE HE'S BEEN HERE.
[02:15:01]
AND WE'RE NOW AT ABOUT 90, I THINK HE SAID 96% CORRECTED.AND WE'RE SHOOTING TO GET, I GUESS, AS CLOSE AS WE CAN TO 100%, BUT LIKE 98%.
SO I GUESS THE POINT AS FAR AS THIS GOES, IF WE CREATE AN ADDRESS AND LEAVE IT AS DOGWOOD FARM LANE AS THESE TWO ARE CURRENTLY ADDRESS AND ADDRESS THE OTHER THE NEW PARCEL AS A DOG WARD DOG WOULD FORM A ROAD PARCEL THAT WOULD BE IN VIOLATION OF OUR CODE AS WE PERCEIVE IT. OKAY. AND IT WOULD CREATE AN ITEM THAT THEY COULD CHECK.
THAT SAYS IT'S IT'S NOT FOLLOWING THEIR RECOMMENDED REGULATIONS FOR E911.
OKAY. SO IF WE RENAME THE ROAD AND THE FISHBONE ANALYSIS WOULD JUST SHOW THAT YOU WOULD HAVE AN EVEN DISTANCE BETWEEN THE LINES SHOWING MR. TABOR AS THE NEIGHBORS AND THE OTHER TWO PARCELS.
THEN YOU WOULD HAVE IT WOULD BE COMPLIANT WITH, AS WE PERCEIVE OUR CODE, IT WOULD BE COMPLIANT WITH IT, AND IT WOULD BE COMPLIANT WITH THE RATING AND THE GRADING THAT THE REGION AND THE STATE AGENCY DOES.
OKAY. WE UNDERSTAND THERE'S A HUMAN COMPONENT OF THIS.
IT IS NOT FUN TO ADD, YOU KNOW, CHANGE OR ADDRESS NUMBER ONE.
AND IN CERTAIN EXTENUATING CASES, SUCH AS MR. TRAVERS, IT MAKES IT EVEN MORE, MAY MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT.
OKAY, ALL WE CAN DO IS WE WE FOLLOW THE CODE.
WE FOLLOW WHAT THE STATE WANTS US TO DO WITH OUR IN OUR GIS.
911 WE FOLLOW WHAT OUR OUR INTERPRETATION OF THE CODE, WHAT WE'VE HAD AS A HISTORICAL INTERPRETATION FOR 20 PLUS YEARS, 25 YEARS, 26 YEARS, WHATEVER. AND WE EXPLAIN THAT IN OUR, IN OUR, OUR DISCUSSION WITH MR. TABOR. IS THERE A GRAY AREA? YOU, AS THE BOARD MAY HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT ONE.
BECAUSE IF IT'S A GRAY AREA, THEN WHY DO WE HAVE THIS ORDINANCE? WHY ARE WE FOLLOWING THIS ORDINANCE WHEN THERE'S A GRAY AREA? I'M SAYING IF THERE IS, IF THERE IS, I DON'T KNOW.
IF THERE IS, I DON'T WE DON'T SEE IT AS THERE BEING A GRAY AREA.
OKAY. AND THAT'S THE CHALLENGE HOW WE FIX THIS GOING FORWARD WITH THESE CONTRACTORS AND DEVELOPERS THAT GOING OUT AND PUTTING RIGHT AWAYS, ARE WE ASKING THEM TO GO AHEAD AND GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF CHANGING THE ROAD? I MEAN, IF THEY'RE APPLYING, IF THEY'RE PROVIDING A PLAT.
YEAH. AND IT HAS MORE THAN THREE HOMES ON THAT RIGHT AWAY.
THEY HAVE TO HAVE THE ROAD. THEY HAVE TO HAVE HAVE TO HAVE THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH.
I'M NOT GOING TO APPROVE IT WITHOUT A ROAD BEING WITHOUT A ROAD, ROAD AND ROAD NAME.
THEY'LL APPLY FOR THE ROAD NAME. RIGHT. OKAY.
SO THIS DOESN'T GO ANY FURTHER. YOU KNOW THIS, RIGHT? IT DOESN'T. HE HAS THEY HAVE TO APPLY. WHAT THEY'LL DO IS THEY'LL SHOW IT AND THEY'LL APPLY FOR THE ROAD NAME. COREY. WE'LL PUT THAT THROUGH OKAY? OKAY OKAY. AS PART OF THE SUBDIVISION REVIEW PROCESS. OKAY. SO GOING FORWARD WE HAVE THAT FIX THAT.
YEAH THAT'S YEAH THAT'S THAT'S TAKEN CARE OF.
IT'S BEEN GOING FOR THE CHALLENGE THAT WE HAVE NOW IS CAN WE GO BACK TO THAT OLD PLAT THAT YOU HAD UP A COUPLE MINUTES AGO? WE HAVE THESE OLD PLANTS AND THEY'RE I HOPE YOU CAN.
YEAH. SO THEY'RE RECORDED IN THE COURTHOUSE, BUT SOME OF THEM AREN'T ON THE GIS, OKAY.
BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT A ROAD. THEY'RE A RIGHT OF WAY, A PLATTED RIGHT OF WAY.
BUT THAT RIGHT AWAY. BUT IT NEVER MADE IT TO THE GIS ORIGINALLY BECAUSE IT'S IT'S AN OLD, OLD FLAT.
YEAH. OKAY. CAN THE GIS SHOW RIGHT AWAYS? SO THAT'S WHAT MR. GRIFFITH DID IS HE GOT THIS AND HE GEO REFERENCED IT.
SO YOU AND HE OVERLAID IT INTO THE GIS. SO NOW WE SEE IT.
OKAY. NOW, MR. TABOR, WHEN HE PURCHASED HIS HOUSE, GUESS WHAT? IT WASN'T THERE. AND I THINK YOUR DEED. I DON'T KNOW IF IT IDENTIFIES A RIGHT OF WAY OR IT IDENTIFIES.
BASICALLY, HE PURCHASED THE LAND AND. DO YOU MIND HIM SPEAKING A MOMENT ABOUT THAT? JUST A MOMENT. BECAUSE, LIKE, HE KNOWS THIS BETTER THAN I DO.
YEAH. BUT BUT YEAH, YEAH I UNDERSTAND. I MEAN, IT'S JUST I DON'T THINK IT WORKS.
[02:20:02]
BUT ANYWAY, THE POINT IS, IS IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IT NEVER MADE IT TO THE GIS.SO WHEN HE'S CHECKING WHEN THE PREVIOUS GIS COORDINATORS LOOKED AT IT, THEY JUST SAID, OKAY, WELL, THERE'S NOT A THIRD HOUSE. WE'LL JUST ADDRESS IT OFF DOGWOOD FARM.
NOW WE HAVE A THIRD HOUSE. WE FIND THE, THE THE RECORD, THE PLAT RECORD WE PUT.
OH, THERE'S A, THERE'S A RIGHT OF WAY VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU HAD UP IN YOUR DISTRICT RECENTLY.
YEAH, BUT THERE WAS ONLY TWO HOMES ON THAT RIGHT AWAY.
RIGHT? RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT. RIGHT. AND THEN THEY DIDN'T COMPLY A LITTLE MORE OTHER FACTORS.
BUT THE POINT IS THAT. BUT THE DATA SHOWED THERE WAS ONLY TWO.
WE CAN MAKE AN INTERNAL PROCESS TO WHEN YOU HAVE ONE OF THESE, THE GIS COORDINATOR SHOULD NUMBER ONE, LOOK TO SEE IF THERE IS AN OLD DEED THAT THERE MIGHT BE A PLATTED RIGHT OF WAY.
OKAY. WE CAN DO THAT EASILY. COREY CAN. AS PERMITS.
COME IN. HE CAN VERIFY AND WE CAN ASSIGN THE NEW ROAD AT THE TIME THE FIRST PERMIT ON THAT IS ISSUED. INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR THE THIRD PERMIT.
NOW WE CAN CHANGE THE CODE TO DO THAT. I THINK WE'LL DOUBLE CHECK WITH LEGAL, OBVIOUSLY, BUT I THINK WE CAN CHANGE THE CODE TO SAY AT THE FIRST PERMIT OF A RIGHT OF WAY, A PLATTED RIGHT OF WAY. WHERE THERE ARE NO OTHER HOMES.
PROPERTY'S ADDRESS. THAT'S THE POINT IN TIME THAT WE ADDRESS IT.
AND NAME THE ROAD AND NAME THE RIGHT OF WAY BEFORE THE HOME IS BUILT.
SO BEFORE THE HOME IS BUILT AND BEFORE YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL HOMES BUILT.
YOU KNOW, IN THIS CASE, THIS HOME WAS BUILT AFTER THAT FIRST HOME.
IF THEY HAD RENAMED THAT ROAD THAT RIGHT OF WAY BEFORE THE PREVIOUS PROPERTY AND HAVE BUILT THAT HOME, WE WOULDN'T BE GOING THROUGH THIS. WE'D HAVE A ROAD NAME ON THAT.
AND EVERYBODY AFTERWARDS WHO PULLED PERMITS WOULD HAVE THAT, THAT PROPERTY, THEIR PROPERTY ADEQUATELY ADDRESS TO ME THE CODE AND THE INTENT OF WHAT E911 IS AND WHAT THE STATE WANTS US TO SEE DOING WITH IT AS IT STANDS, ARE WE'RE CAUGHT IN A POSITION BECAUSE WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE AT THE END.
NOW WE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION. WHAT IS THAT ADDRESS GOING TO BE? IS IT GOING TO BE ON A NEW ROAD THAT YOU GUYS HAVE APPROVED, YOU'VE APPROVED TO ASSIGN, OR ARE WE GOING TO HAVE TO? I'M GOING TO SAY NOT FOLLOW OUR RULES AND JUST ADDRESS IT OFF TO OAKWOOD FARM ROAD TO ACCOMMODATE MR. TABOR AND MODERN TECHNOLOGY THAT CAN STILL GET YOU THERE.
OH, YEAH. THAT'S STILL. YOU JUST HINTED ON MY TWO QUESTIONS I WANTED TO ASK FIRST IS I WANT TO ASK.
I WANT TO THANK MR. MODICA FOR BEING HERE AS REPRESENTING FIRE AND RESCUE.
SO I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, TODAY WITH IF THERE ARE THREE HOUSES ON THAT RIGHT OF WAY, DOES THE E911 SYSTEM WITH, WITH ITS OVERLAYS MAKE IT, GET BASICALLY EASY ENOUGH TO FIND MR. NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE. WHETHER OR NOT THAT RIGHT OF WAY HAS A SEPARATE ROAD NAME OR IS JUST ADDRESSED AS DOGWOOD FARM ROAD.
IN A PERFECT SCENARIO, YES. IF THE PROPERTY OWNER IS ABLE TO CALL 911 THEY'RE ABLE TO SPEAK IN THE PHONE, CLEARLY GIVE AN ADDRESS, PROVIDE THAT VERBAL CONFIRMATION OF WHERE THEY ARE AT.
AS WE SEE THE STATEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY CHANGES, THAT'S A GOOD THING, BUT ALSO A BAD THING.
ASK YOURSELF TODAY HOW MANY HOMES STILL HAVE LANDLINE TELEPHONES? RIGHT. SO SO 911 IS BEING CALLED PREDOMINANTLY OFF OF WIRELESS DEVICES, CELL PHONES WHICH WITHIN YOUR PACKET YOU SEE THE VGA IN REPORT CARD WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT YOUR UNDERMINING GEOCODING ACCURACY, ETC..
THAT'S WHERE ALL OF THAT COMES INTO PLAY THAT WE MAY BE ABLE TO GET SELF SERVICE.
IT'S NOT GOING TO PIN IT DOWN TO THE PRECISE.
GEO CODED BLOCK OF WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO BE. IT'S GOING TO GIVE YOU A GENERAL RANGE.
THE WAY THAT THAT COMPUTER SYSTEM WORKS IS IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PRECISE MEASURING, YOU LOOK AT THAT FISHBONE EFFECT, YOU MAY GET INACCURACY AND REPORTING THE ADDRESS.
SO THAT'S WHY THEY RECOMMEND TRYING TO STAY AWAY FROM THAT FISHBONE TYPE CONCEPT.
[02:25:05]
I SEE THAT THERE'S A THIS JUST HAPPENED TO ME.JUST HAPPENED TO ME YESTERDAY WHEN I HAD TO GO UP TO STEVE AND CITY OF AND PICK UP A PICK UP A PIECE OF FURNITURE FOR MY DAUGHTER WHO JUST GOT MARRIED AND, YOU KNOW, SHE BOUGHT SOMETHING OFF OF.
WHATEVER IT IS ON THE INTERNET AND THE AND SO IT GAVE A, IT GAVE AN ADDRESS, BUT IT WAS ONE OF THESE REALLY WEIRD ADDRESSES WHERE INSTEAD OF THE ROAD GOING STRAIGHT, IT GOES LIKE THIS UP AND AROUND AND KIND OF LIKE AND MAKES A CURVE.
BUT IT'S THE SAME ROAD AND AND BUT IT HOOKS BACK INTO ITSELF.
AND SO I WAS FOLLOWING WHAT THE WHAT WHAT THE, THE MAP SAID AND, AND I GO THIS MAKES NO SENSE.
THEY GO, WHERE DID THE HOUSE GO? WELL, YEAH, I MEAN WE HAVE SOME MARGIN OF ERROR SOMETIMES.
BUT BUT LIKE EVEN IN THIS, IN THIS CASE, IF YOU ONLY HAD A ROUGH GEO COORDINATE FROM HIS PHONE AND NOT THE HOWARD ADDRESS OF THE HOUSE, YOU WOULD THEY WOULD STILL KNOW THAT. LIKE WHAT? REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU CALLED THAT RIGHT AWAY, THEY WOULD STILL KNOW. THEY KIND OF HAD TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD. AND I THINK AND I THINK QUITE FRANKLY, YES, BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING AT 2 TO 3 PROPERTIES.
HOW MANY PROPERTIES IN THAT RIGHT OF WAY CAN BE DEVELOPED.
AND NOW YOU HAVE YOUR STACKED ADDRESS OF FOUR.
RIGHT. BUT THEN STILL, IF IT WAS HEMLOCK, IF IT WAS HIDDEN HEMLOCK COURT AND THERE WAS SEVEN HOUSES IN THERE AND YOU JUST HAD A VAGUE SELF THING, YOU STILL WOULDN'T KNOW WHICH HOUSE NECESSARILY, RIGHT? I MEAN, THAT'S WHEN YOU LOOK FOR THE SMOKE OR THE, THE, THE SPOUSE WAVING THEIR HANDS. WELL, THE ISSUE YOU HAVE TO YOU HAVE TO KNOW AND ULTIMATELY HOW THE GEOCODING AND THAT THAT PROCESS WORKS.
THE OTHER THE OTHER ADVOCATION WOULD BE IS THAT'S IN OBVIOUSLY THE PERFECT SCENARIO AND EVERYTHING'S WORKING APPROPRIATELY, I.E. TECHNOLOGY. BUT WHAT IS ALSO THE VISUAL CUES.
RIGHT. SO THE ADDRESSING AT THE END OF THE DRIVEWAY.
SO IF YOU'RE THINK OF YOURSELF GOING TO WHAT'S THE ROAD NAME? DOGWOOD. DOGWOOD FARM. SO DOGWOOD FARM ROAD, RIGHT? I'M A 19 YEAR OLD FIREFIGHTER, AND I'M DRIVING A FIRE TRUCK TO THE FIRE, AND I'M ON DOGWOOD FORM ROAD, AND I PASS HOUSE NUMBER 20. I PASS HOUSE NUMBER 30.
I'M EXPECTING UP HERE IS GOING TO BE 40, 50, 60.
RIGHT. AND I'M JUST GIVING GENERAL. BUT NOW IN REALITY, 40, 50, 60 AND 70 WERE UP THIS ACCESS ROAD AND NOW I'M IN THE 100 BLOCK. SO YOU NEED TO HAVE SOME GOOD SIGNAGE BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE SIGNAGE.
IN REALITY THAT IS DOGWOOD FARM ROAD SERVING THESE FOUR HOUSES UP HERE.
OKAY, SO THE VISUAL CUES BY COUNTY ORDINANCE, IF WE'RE OUTSIDE OF THE 60 FOOT VISIBLE STRAIGHT FRONT, THEN WE HAVE TO HAVE THE VISUAL CUES POSTED AT THE ACCESS POINT.
OKAY, THEN ADDITIONAL ADDRESS QUEUES AT EACH RESPECTIVE PROPERTY SERVICE.
RIGHT. OKAY. BUT BUT THAT THAT WHOLE SCENARIO, YOU KNOW, THE 19 YEAR OLD DRIVING THE TRUCK AND 40, 50, 60. THAT ASSUMES YOU DO KNOW THE ADDRESS YOU'RE GOING TO AND NOT JUST A CELL PHONE PING.
SO BECAUSE MISTER TABOR TOLD ME TODAY AN EMAIL THAT HE WENT TO THE 911 CENTER AND TALKED TO SOMEONE AND SAID, ARE YOU GUYS ABLE TO FIND MY ADDRESS OR HOW EASILY? AND THEY PUT IT IN AND PUT A PIN RIGHT ON HIS HOUSE.
AND IT COULD DRAW A LINE, I THINK, TO GET THERE.
SO LIKE, I THINK IT SOUNDS LIKE BASED ON THAT, IT WOULD BE EASY ENOUGH TO FIND HIS HOUSE WITH THE CURRENT ADDRESSING IF YOU KNEW THE HOUSE. CORRECT. AND IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW THE HOUSE, YOU JUST HAD A RANDOM LATITUDE AND LONGITUDE WHERE THAT PHONE IS LOCATED.
THAT THEY WOULD PROBABLY AT LEAST SEE THE TURN OR SOMEHOW.
I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW THIS WORKS, BUT IT WOULD SEEM LIKE THE TECHNOLOGY CAN GUIDE THEM TO THE RIGHT PROXIMITY. OKAY, I HAVE A QUESTION. THE HOUSE AT THE END THAT'S BEING BUILT.
NO, IT'S AT THAT CUL DE SAC LOOKING AREA THERE.
THE HOUSE THAT'S BEYOND THE CUL DE SAC THAT NEEDS AN ADDRESS.
CORRECT? YES. YES. SO WHAT IS. I MEAN, THAT LOOKS LIKE A FAIR DISTANCE ON THAT.
[02:30:04]
WHAT IS THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE BEGINNING OF OFF OF DOGWOOD FARM ROAD TO THAT POINT.AND IS IT FEET 101? LET'S SEE HERE, MAN. THAT'S BECAUSE THAT'S POINT BLANK IS 0.12 MILES.
SO WHATEVER YOUR POINT. OKAY. SO, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THE DISTANCE IS, THAT'S THE HOUSE THAT NEEDS TO BE CONCERNED WITH BEING ABLE TO FIND IT BECAUSE YOU WHATEVER THAT DISTANCE IS, IS THAT ANYBODY GOING TO REALIZE THAT'S DOGWOOD TREE SIX FEET, OKAY. FROM THE END OF THE CUL DE SAC AND IT'S BEYOND.
I MEAN, IF WE GO BY THIS RANGE HERE, LIKE 21, TWO ZERO, ACTUALLY 8TH.
633. AMEN. IT'S ABOUT 150 YARDS. OKAY. SO THAT'S THE HOUSE THAT NEEDS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO FIND IT. YEAH. IT HAS NO ADDRESS.
AND YOU SAY DOGWOOD FARMS ROAD. I CAN SEE WHERE THE FIRST HOUSE COULD LOOK LIKE IT'S ON THAT ROAD, BUT THAT ONE IS GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF AN ADDRESS IN ORDER TO IDENTIFY IT.
WELL, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT THE PROPERTY OWNERS CAN GO TO E911 AND TELL THEM THAT THEY LIVE ON A RIGHT OF WAY OFF THE DOGWOOD, AND THEN THEY CAN PUT THAT IN THE SYSTEM.
SO WHEN IF THEY GET AN EMERGENCY CALL. IF I SAY THIS CORRECTLY.
NOW THAT'S THAT'S AN EXTREME SPECIALIZED CIRCUMSTANCE.
I MEAN ULTIMATELY THAT IS A DIALOG BOX THAT GIVES US SPECIAL NOTATIONS, ETC..
ON ONE OFFS. IN REALITY, YOUR YOUR COMPUTER AIDED DISPATCH SYSTEM IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS VISION AND GIVING YOU YOUR ADDRESS POINTS BECAUSE IT AUTOMATICALLY POPULATES ALL OF THAT AND TIES THAT TO RESPONSE PLANS, RIGHT? SO IT POPULATES THE ADDRESS, IT TELLS THE DISPATCHER WHAT COMPANIES TO SEND, WHAT UNITS TO SEND, ETC.. YOU KNOW, SO THAT THAT SPECIALIZED DIALOG BOX THAT WE DISCUSSED BEFORE WOULD NOT BE I WOULD CAUTION TO SAY THAT THAT IS THE FAILSAFE ASSOCIATED WITH NOT FOLLOWING AN ESTABLISHED POLICY, ORDINANCE, ETC.. SO BASICALLY, IS THE ISSUE HERE THAT TECHNOLOGY HAS ADVANCED TO THE POINT WHERE WE DON'T WE DON'T HAVE TO.
WE'RE ADVOCATING WE DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW WHAT WE USED TO, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THE OF OF YOU COME DOWN A YOU COME DOWN A STREET AND JUST LIKE YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, 20, 30, 40, 50, WE CAN SAY, WELL, THIS ONE IS PEACHTREE STREET, BUT I'M GOING TO USE ADDRESS 90 DEGREES FROM THIS THREE HOUSES DOWN PEACH STREET, PEACHTREE STREET, BECAUSE I WANT TO BE, YOU KNOW, LOCATED THERE AND EVERYBODY CAN FIND ME.
IS THAT WHERE IS THAT WHAT WE'RE ADVOCATING HERE? I WOULD I WOULD THINK IT'S ACTUALLY PROBABLY CREATED MORE RULES FOR THE ADDRESSING OF IT IN ORDER TO MAKE IT MORE ACCURATE.
BUT BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS, ARE WE SAYING THAT WE'RE GOING TO DEPART FROM THAT, THAT WE'RE THAT SOME, SOME FOLKS ARE ADVOCATING TO DEPART FROM THE RULES THAT WE'VE GOT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE TECHNOLOGY HAS ADVANCED TO THE POINT WHERE, WELL, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. YOU CAN YOU CAN BE UP THERE AND YOU CAN STILL BE DOGWOOD ROAD BECAUSE YOU'RE THREE HOUSES AWAY, BUT THEY CAN FIND YOU ON THE, ON THE, THE MAP.
I MEAN, YOUR FIRE AND RESCUE DEPARTMENT WOULD CAUTION YOU AGAINST.
OKAY. SO THEN WHAT ARE WE ADVOCATING? SO I WAS I SPEAK TO FOR MR. TABOR AS FAR AS OUR MEETING THIS AFTERNOON. HE HE BASICALLY IS REQUESTING A WAIVER TO THE RULES THROUGH.
AND HE'S NOT INTERPRETING OUR CODE AS WE INTERPRET.
HE'S INTERPRETING AS AS IT IS A SUGGESTION, NOT A HARD RULE.
AND IS HE THAT FIRST HOUSE THERE? SECOND HALF, MR. TABOR. HE'S THE SECOND HOUSE THERE. OKAY. AND AND SO CONSEQUENTLY, I MEAN, HE HAS DONE.
[02:35:04]
TO HIS CREDIT, HE HAS DONE WHAT HE COULD DO TO MAKE HIS ADDRESS AVAILABLE.I BELIEVE HE DID POST AT BOTH BOTH YOUR NEIGHBORS AND YOUR ADDRESS AT THE END OF THE ROAD, AT THE ENTRANCE TO THE RIGHT. ENTRANCE TO THE RIGHT OF WAY. SO HE HE HAS DONE THAT TO HIS CREDIT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY HE'S CONCERNED ABOUT HIS OWN HOUSE AND, AND WHATNOT.
BUT IT'S BECAUSE OF THE, I'M GOING TO SAY, HARDSHIP, INCONVENIENCE, WHATEVER THAT IS CREATING FOR HIM IN THE RENAMING OF THE ADDRESS THAT HE'S NOT WANTING US TO FOLLOW. WELL, I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT, BUT HE'S TAKING HIS POSITION AND WE'RE BASICALLY TAKING OUR POSITION. THERE COULD BE OTHER HOMEOWNERS THAT WOULD HAVE HIS SAME POSITION.
AND YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SAY IT, INCONVENIENCE, YOU KNOW, FOR FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER, YOU KNOW THAT WHO HAD BOUGHT THIS HOUSE NO CLUE THAT HE THE ADDRESS IS GOING TO BE CHANGED BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE THEIR DUE DILIGENCE.
THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DISCLOSED DURING THE REAL ESTATE PROCESS.
OKAY, BUT I HAVE A LIST OF THINGS THAT A PROPERTY OWNER WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH.
RIGHT. FIRST, THEY'D HAVE TO INFORM THE POST OFFICE TO HAVE THEIR MAIL TO BE FORWARDED.
THEN IF THEY HAVE A MORTGAGE, THEY'D HAVE TO CALL THE MORTGAGE COMPANIES, AND OF COURSE, THEY'D HAVE TO CALL THE INSURANCE COMPANY. THEN IF THEY HAVE ANY INVESTMENTS, YOU KNOW, INVESTMENT FIRMS, THEN THEY GOT TO GO TO THE DMV.
THEN THEY GOT TO GO TO THE CALL FORM THE IRS.
SOCIAL SECURITY, IF THEY'RE COLLECTING SOCIAL SECURITY VOTER REGISTRATION, THEY HAVE TO GO OUT AND CHANGE IF THEY'RE A BETTER VETERAN AFFAIRS, IF THEY'RE A VETERAN, THEY GOT MEDICAID. THEY HAVE TO GO AND GET THE STATE FOR A PASS.
WELL, NOT THAT YOU GO TO THE POST OFFICE FOR THE PASSPORTS IF THEY'RE EMPLOYED, EMPLOYMENT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE EMPLOYED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
LET ME TELL YOU, I USED TO BE A FED CHANGING YOUR ADDRESS, YOUR PHONE NUMBER, WHATEVER.
IT'S AN ACT OF GOD, YOU KNOW? SO YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THAT.
UTILITIES, HOME SECURITY SERVICES, CABLE AND SATELLITE, SATELLITE SERVICES, ONLINE ACCOUNTS.
YOU KNOW, SO IT'S IT'S A BIG THING FOR PROPERTY OWNERS, OKAY.
AND NOT AND IT'S NOT JUST FOR THIS PROPERTY OWNER, FOR OTHER PROPERTY OWNERS AS WELL WHO THINK THEY, YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO DO YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THIS ORDINANCE.
YOU KNOW, ONE THING I AGREE WITH THIS ORDINANCE, IT'S IT'S NOT WRITTEN.
AND ANOTHER THING IS, HOW MUCH NOTICE DO YOU EVEN GIVE THESE HOMEOWNERS, YOU KNOW, TO TO GO AND BE PREPARED TO GO AND CHANGE ALL OF THIS STUFF FOR THEM? USUALLY IT'S WELL, IT'S USUALLY ABOUT 30 DAYS, 30 DAYS FOR THE PROCESS TO SEND A LETTER OUT AND GIVE YOU 30 DAYS TO GET BACK TO US, TO GIVE US SUGGESTIONS FOR A NEW ROAD NAME.
OKAY. AND THEN IT'S GETTING IT ON THE BOARD AGENDA.
SO 30 TO 60 DAYS IS PROBABLY A REASONABLE TO GET IT.
WELL THE PROPERTY. RIGHT. AND THE QUARRY WILL ASSIGN THE ADDRESS AND THEN SEND THE, THE RIGHT BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GO ON AND CHANGE THEIR ADDRESS UNTIL THE BOARD, UNTIL THE BOARD IS APPROVED.
AND THAT'S, AND THAT'S AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT.
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IF THE BOARD CHOOSES AGAIN, YOU'RE THE BOARD.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU CHOOSE TO NOT DIRECT US, TO NOT FOLLOW WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE CODE OR INTERPRET, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION OF IT AND YOU WANT THAT NEXT HOUSE TO BE PERMITTED OFF DOGWOOD FARM LANE.
AND YOU GIVE US DIRECTION ON THAT. WHO ARE WHO ARE WE? YOU KNOW, WE'RE HOW HARD HOW HARD IS IT? SEE HOW IT'S A DOGWOOD FARM? THE ONE THAT IS DOGWOOD FARM ROAD. I'M SORRY.
IT GOES LIKE THIS. YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. HOW HARD IS IT TO CHANGE THE PART THAT THAT IT GOES STRAIGHT DOWN? HOW HARD WOULD THEY BE? WE GAVE THAT SOME THOUGHT ON THAT AND THAT THAT WOULD NOT.
THAT WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF ANOTHER RULE FOR ADDRESSING.
SO. SO WE HAVE A LOT OF RULES. THIS RULE IS CONCERNING.
IT. IT'S JUST THE WAY THE ROAD IS. AND THE POINT.
[02:40:03]
THE WAY THE ROAD IS. GOES INTO OAK. OAK. OLD OAK LANE.AND THEN THE OTHER ROAD BEING THE ANGLE THAT IT IS TO THAT POINT ON OR I SHOULD SAY THE RIGHT OF WAY THAT IT IS ON THE ANGLE TO THAT POINT. IT INSERTS IT DOGWOOD FARM ROAD.
AND I, I MEAN, I COULD LOOK FOR THE CODE SECTION IF YOU'D LIKE ME TO.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF I, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE SAYING, WELL, I'LL TAKE DIRECTION IF YOU GUYS DECIDE THAT, THAT YOU WANT TO KIND OF LIKE NOT FOLLOW WHAT, WHAT'S, WHAT'S IN THE, IN THE, YOU KNOW, IN OUR, OUR CODE AND STUFF. WHY DON'T WE JUST DO THE SIMPLE THING AND CHANGE THAT PART OF THE ROAD AND JUST LEAVE THE REST OF IT? JUST THE ROAD YOU WOULD JUST HAVE LIKE A 200 FOOT SECTION THAT WOULD NOT EVEN BE ADDRESSED.
I MEAN, JUST WHAT CAN I ADDRESS, I GUESS. HERE'S HERE'S JUST HERE'S THE DIFFERENCE.
OKAY. SO I'LL JUST SHOW YOU THAT KIND OF TO YOU GUYS.
I CAN DEFINITELY SYMPATHIZE WITH HAVING TO CHANGE EVERYTHING BECAUSE AFTER LIVING AT THE SAME ADDRESS FOR 38 YEARS, 11 YEARS AGO WHEN I MOVED TO WHERE I AM NOW TO TAKE CARE OF AGING FAMILY.
WE HAD TO DO THAT AND WE HAD TWO LLCS FOR THE FARM AT THAT POINT.
SO YEAH, IT WAS A PAIN. BUT I WORRY ABOUT SOMEONE NOT GETTING FIRE AND EMS OR LAW ENFORCEMENT IN TIME BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT ADDRESSED CORRECTLY. WELL, I WAS GOING TO ASK A QUESTION TO THE OWNER.
SO WHERE? WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR MAIL? THERE IS A BANK OF MAILBOXES AT THE NORTH END OF OLD OAK ROAD, WHERE IT INTERSECTS WITH VENUS BRANCH.
USUALLY IT'S UPS AND FEDEX, BUT MOST MAIL FOR US IS DELIVERED AT THAT MAILBOX.
A LITTLE WAYS. IT'S ABOUT A MILE AWAY FROM THE HOUSE. OKAY.
SO HOW HOW DOES. I'LL MAKE IT AN ASSUMPTION THAT YOU ORDER THINGS FROM AMAZON.
I'M SORRY. I'M MAKING AN ASSUMPTION THAT YOU ORDER THINGS FROM AMAZON.
SO HOW HOW DOES AMAZON KNOW TO GET TO YOUR HOME? THE SAME WAY THAT I DID WHEN I WAS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.
AND I PRESUME THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT FIREFIGHTERS DO NOW.
AND I USED G.P.S.. THEY IT'S IT'S IN THEIR GPS AND IT TAKES THEM RIGHT THERE.
THANK YOU. I'LL JUST THROW THIS IN. AND AGAIN.
I DON'T KNOW THE IMPACT OF, OF, OF WAVING SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THIS IS SETTING A PRECEDENT. OKAY. I JUST DON'T KNOW BECAUSE OTHER THAN WHAT WE DEALT WITH OVER OFF LOWER VALLEY AND AND THIS I CANNOT REMEMBER. I MEAN, YES, WE'VE HAD PEOPLE HAD TO CHANGE THEIR ADDRESSES AND YES, IT WAS INCONVENIENCE AND YES, IT WAS UNFORTUNATE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE IMPLICATIONS ARE IN SETTING A SPECIFIC PRECEDENT FOR THIS.
WE WILL WE WILL IMPROVE OUR THE THE GIS COORDINATOR CAN IMPROVE HIS PROCESS IN REVIEWING PERMITS AND ADDRESSING BEFORE HE ADDRESSES THE HOUSE. AND MAYBE WE CAN AMEND THE ORDINANCE THAT IN LIEU OF THE THIRD HOUSE, IT WOULD BE THE FIRST HOUSE, AND THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO.
SO THIS WOULD HOPEFULLY NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. BUT THAT'S GOING FORWARD.
RIGHT. BUT THAT DOESN'T IT DOESN'T HELP US WHERE WE ARE TODAY.
AND I JUST WANTED TO MAKE ONE A POINT. I THINK IT WAS LAST YEAR WE HAD ANOTHER HOMEOWNER THAT CAME THAT AND SPOKE TO US BECAUSE OF THE SAME SITUATION THAT WE'RE GOING. I THINK IT WAS ANDREW.
[02:45:05]
ADDRESS CHANGE, AND HE SIGNED A DOCUMENT THINKING THAT THAT WAS GOING TO GIVE HIM THE AUTHORITY TO COME AND TALK TO THE BOARD.AND MAYBE THAT WAS A MISCOMMUNICATION. HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS, BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER PROPERTY OWNER THAT CAME AND SAID THAT THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS. THE PURPLE HEART GUY, I THINK, YEAH, SAID HE COULD GO OVER THREE MINUTES AND WE ALLOWED THAT.
AND SO MAYBE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED. THE PROCESS.
WHY WHY IS IT THREE. WHY DON'T WE MAKE IT 5 OR 10.
WELL, BECAUSE IF YOU DID THAT, YOU'D HAVE IT COMPOUNDED BY 5 OR 10.
WELL, WHO MADE THE RULE? 1980? NO, NO. WHO MADE THE RULE? I DON'T KNOW. NO. I'M SAYING, WAS IT THE COUNTY THAT MADE THE RULE? IT COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE BEEN STATE AND THEN THE COUNTY ADOPTED OR, YOU KNOW, OTHER MUNICIPALITIES KNOW WHAT? NO, BECAUSE THE STATE'S VERY, VERY LOOSELY WRITTEN.
WE COMPLY TO STATE THEN. IS IT ONE OF THESE THINGS THAT WE'RE SITTING HERE? WELL, WE CAN'T CHANGE THAT BECAUSE THE RULE WOULD HAVE TO BE CHANGED.
WELL, WHO CHANGED THE RULES? WHAT WE DO. I'D LIKE TO READ SOMETHING THAT MR. JORDAN BOWMAN, THE LAND ATTORNEY, SENT ME. HE SAID THE REQUIREMENT TO NAME ROADS WHEN THERE ARE THREE OR MORE RESIDENTS SERVED BY A ROAD IS FROM THE COUNTY CODE, NOT FROM THE VIRGINIA CODE. THAT NUMBER OF RESIDENCES, THREE OR MORE, DOES CORRESPOND TO VDOT REQUIREMENTS IN 24.
VIRGINIA CODE 30, DASH 92, DASH 60. BUT THOSE REQUIREMENTS DO NOT APPLY.
AND HE GOES ON FROM THERE, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE WEE.
THERE IS SOME DISCRETION HERE, BUT IT'S IT'S DESIGNED TO BE IN HARMONY WITH THE POLICY.
BUT YEAH, BUT FRANKLY, IT'S DON'T TREAT POLICIES LIKE LAWS.
YEAH. WELL THE POLICY IS JUST A IS JUST A SUGGESTION ON HOW TO DO THINGS.
YOU KNOW, THAT THIS WOULD BE THIS WOULD BE THE BEST OR THE, THE THIS IS CURRENTLY IN OUR CODE AND THIS IS JUST WHAT WE'RE FOLLOWING AND WHAT WE'RE INTERPRETING NOW. I WOULD GO BY THE IT'S CURRENTLY IN THE CODE.
BUT WHO CHANGES THE CODE. YOU. WELL THE THE CODE HASN'T CHANGED SINCE 1989.
SO I GUESS I GUESS JUST THE POINT I'M GETTING AT IS YES, WE CAN CHANGE THE CODE.
WE CAN WE CAN MAKE THOSE AMENDMENTS, WE CAN REVIEW IT AND MAKE THOSE AMENDMENTS GO DOWN TO ONE AT THE AT THE TIME THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HEARD IT AT THE TIME, THE FIRST PERMIT, WANT TO APPLY IT RIGHT AWAY IS SUBMITTED FOR A BUILDING.
THAT IS WHEN THAT ROAD WILL BE NAMED THAT DOESN'T GET US OFF OF WHERE WE'RE AT NOW.
WITH MR. TABER AND HIS SITUATION WITH HAVING TO CHANGE HIS ADDRESS, IF WE DO NAME THE ROAD, AND FOR US HAVING TO PERMIT PROVIDE A E911 ADDRESS TO THIS PERMITTED HOUSE, THIS BUILDING PERMIT THAT WE RECEIVED IN THIS HOUSE THAT HAS TO HAVE AN E911 ACT SAID, LIKE I SAID, WHAT KEEPS US FROM SAYING, WELL, IT'S THREE, WHY DON'T WE MAKE IT JUST 5 OR 7 OR WHATEVER, OR WE CHANGE THE NAME OF THAT ROAD DOWN THERE.
YOU YOU HAVE THE DISCRETION TO DO BOTH. OKAY? OKAY. I'M NOT, I'M NOT I'M JUST TRYING TO ADDRESS THIS IMMEDIATE ISSUE THAT WE HAVE.
YEAH. AND GET SOME DIRECTION. WELL, I WOULD I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST TWO THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST IF WE COULD ASK DOCTOR DALEY IF, IF YOU COULD ASK JASON AND JORDAN TO TO COME UP WITH A POLICY.
SO PROBABLY THE FIRST HOUSE WOULD TRIGGER IT.
[02:50:01]
TABOR, AND IT'S NOT JUST THAT IT'S INCONVENIENT.BUT THE FACT THAT HIS THERE WAS A FAILURE OF DISCLOSURE AT THE REAL ESTATE TRANSACTION, I WOULD I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT WE WAIVE IT IN THIS ONE CASE. AND KNOWING THAT WE'RE CLOSING THE DOOR ON THIS IN THE FUTURE.
SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE SETTING A PROBLEMATIC PRECEDENT.
IS THERE A POSSIBILITY DOCTOR DAILEY, THAT WE CAN HAVE THAT PUT ON THE AGENDA FOR NEXT WEEK'S MEETING? AND THAT WAS DUE LATE, BUT FOR NEXT WEEK'S MEETING AND JUST HAVE THAT WHERE YOU CAN ACTUALLY OFFICIALLY VOTE ON IT. SINCE WE'RE IN WORK SESSION TONIGHT AND THEN JUST YOU'LL HAVE AN OFFICIAL WAVE TO WAIT TO WAVE IT SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS PERMIT.
I'VE GOT ONE. IF I GET TWO MORE, IT'LL BE ON THE AGENDA NEXT TUESDAY.
OKAY. WELL, IF WE WAIVE IT FOR ONE HOMEOWNER, ISN'T THERE ANOTHER HOMEOWNER ON THIS RIGHT AWAY? ISN'T THERE ANOTHER PLOT? THERE IS, BUT THERE'S NOT A PERMIT.
OKAY. IT'S A VACANT LOT. OKAY. SO IF YOU WAIT, ISN'T THERE TWO WAVES IN THERE TO WAVE THIS AND THAT HOUSE AND THAT LOT WAS TO BE SOLD? YOU WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TO WAIVE. YEAH. BUT DO WE.
THE CODE ALREADY? THE CODE SAYS THREE OR MORE.
SO WHERE'S THE SECOND ONE? THERE'S. THERE'S TWO HOMES THAT ARE BUILT.
THE ONE. OKAY. THERE'S TWO HOMES THAT ARE BUILT. SO I'M SAYING IF WE WAIT HERE FOR ONE OR IN ESSENCE, WAIVING IT FOR THE ENTIRE ROOM, RIGHT. YES, YES.
AND THAT'S WOULD WAIVE THE RIGHT OF WAY. OKAY.
YES. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. AND THEN THEY WANTED TO HAVE TO COME BACK.
AND THEN IF ANYBODY DOES GO FOR THAT WE'LL JUST ADDRESS IT ALL AS DOGWOOD FARM ROAD.
SO IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT WE'RE, WE'RE HAPPY TO TAKE GUIDANCE.
I UNDERSTAND THAT WON'T BE ALL DONE BY NEXT TUESDAY.
BUT TO WAIVE THIS TO WAIVE IT RIGHT. RIGHT. DO THAT.
OKAY. AND THEN THEN THAT WILL RESOLVE THIS FOR OUR TEAM, FOR FOR MR. GRIFFITH, AS TO BEING ABLE TO ADDRESS THAT IN HOUSE, THAT LAST HOUSE AND ACCOMMODATE MR. TABOR ALSO AND YOU KNOW, I MEAN, LEGISLATIVELY, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT, AND WE'RE HAPPY TO ABIDE BY THAT IF IT'S PROOF OR GETTING OURSELVES INTO A LIABILITY IF THAT LAST HOUSE ISN'T FOUND IN ENOUGH TIME AND SOMEONE DIES. YEAH. AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, THAT'S WHERE I GUESS THE PUBLIC HERE IF WE HAVE TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THAT OR THE LAST HOUSE OF MISS CALLERS CONCERN IS THAT THE ONE THAT'S HIGHLIGHTED THERE.
YEAH, THAT'S THE ONE. WE HAVE A A BUILDING PERMIT FOR THAT.
WE'RE TRYING TO GET ADDRESS AND AND WE EITHER ADDRESS IT LIKE, YOU KNOW OF DOGWOOD FARM ROAD. AND THEN WE OR WE HAD. WE CREATED A NEW ROAD NAME? HEMLOCK HOLLOW, I THINK IT IS. AND THEN WE ADDRESS IT ALL THAT OF THAT.
SO THAT MAKES IT COMPLICATED. SO THAT'S ANYWAY.
OKAY. AND I DON'T, I DON'T I JUST WANT TO MAKE A POINT HERE, AND I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO IT WITH THE ORDINANCE OR ANYTHING, BUT, YOU KNOW, ONCE WE CREATE A ROAD, IT'S UP TO THE HOMEOWNERS TO MAINTAIN THAT ROAD.
YEAH. WELL, SO YOU'RE WE'RE PUTTING THE BURDEN ON THE HOMEOWNERS TO MAINTAIN THAT ROAD.
NOW, IF THE HOMEOWNERS OF THAT NEW ROAD, THEY CAN JUST SIT AND SAY, WELL, I'M NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING, I'M NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING. AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN PUT YOUR POTHOLES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD. THESE ARE STAFF VOTES IN FAVOR OF IT. THAT'S THAT. THESE ARE STAFF VOTES IN FAVOR OF THE WAIVER.
OKAY. SO ANYWAY. IT'S OKAY. HOPEFULLY WE CAN ADDRESS AS MUCH AS WE CAN.
WE CAN FIND THAT OUT. AND I CAN GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT.
OKAY. OKAY. YEP. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. NOW YOU HAVE TO CONDEMN IT BECAUSE I OWN IT.
WELL, YEAH. WELL, MEANWHILE, I THINK ON THE RIGHT OF WAY.
[02:55:06]
OH, WELL. WELL, IT. YEAH. I THINK DOCTOR DALY IS MAKING SURE WE HAVE A VOICE.THREE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS WANT TO PUT THIS ON.
WE'LL HAVE IT TO WAVE IT NEXT WEEK. YES. I'M A WAVE.
THE THIRD ONE. OKAY. OKAY. I'M WORKING ON THAT.
OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. LONGER TERM OF THE POLICY.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.
WE ALSO HAD THE OTHER ITEM. WELL, LET'S LET'S LOWER VALLEY.
LET'S ROLL ON. LET'S ROLL ON TO THAT OTHER ITEM.
OKAY. THE OTHER ITEM IS THE PROPOSAL TO NAME THE RIGHT OF WAY OFF OF LOWER VALLEY TO CEDAR TREE LANE. WHY DON'T WE ALREADY WE WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THIS AND WE SAID THAT THERE WAS NO ACTION.
[B. Discussion - Z2025-05-01 - Zoning Text Amendments for Accessory Dwelling Units - Warren County Planning Staff - An ordinance to amend Chapter 180 of the Warren County Code (Zoning Ordinance) to add a definition for accessory dwelling unit, to repeal the existing definition for guesthouse, to amend the Agricultural zoning districts to make "accessory dwelling unit, provided that it is accessory to an existing single-family dwelling, and attached to or located within the existing principal structure' permissible by right and "accessory dwelling unit, detached from an existing principal structure, provided that the accessory dwelling unit is accessory to an existing single-family dwelling" permissible only by conditional use permit in the Agricultural zoning district, and to enact supplementary regulations for accessory dwelling units. - Chase Lenz, Zoning Administrator ]
YES. RIGHT. OH, OKAY. SORRY. I DIDN'T WANT TO GET INTO THAT ONE.OKAY. SORRY. ALL RIGHT. YES. EXCUSE ME.
SO AS YOU MAY RECALL FROM THE LOT OF TIME THAT WE SPEND ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WE HAD IDENTIFIED MULTIPLE SECTIONS OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS TO BE EXPLORED AS A SOURCE OF, OF ALTERNATE HOUSING IN THE AGRICULTURAL ZONING DISTRICT.
AND WE'VE EXPLORED VARIOUS RULES THAT COULD BE APPLIED WITH THAT.
THIS IS PLANNED TO BE A PUBLIC HEARING NEXT TUESDAY FOR YOU GUYS.
SO IT'LL BE NICE AND FRESH NEXT WEEK FOR YOU.
AND AS A MATTER OF, OF ZONING, I GUESS. ADUS ARE OFTEN REFERRED TO AS AFFORDABLE DWELLING UNITS.
THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS IS. THIS IS AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT.
SO ALL OF THE STATE CODE STUFF FOR AFFORDABLE DWELLING UNITS DOES NOT APPLY TO THIS.
THIS IS DIFFERENT, BUT AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, AS THE PROPOSED DEFINITION SAYS, A SUBORDINATE DWELLING UNIT LOCATED ON THE SAME PARCEL AS A PRINCIPAL SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING THAT INCLUDES PERMANENT PROVISIONS FOR LIVING, SLEEPING, COOKING, AND SANITATION.
ALSO, IN THE DEFINITIONS SECTION, THE FUNCTION.
IT FUNCTIONS THE SAME WAY AS A GUEST HOUSE. GUEST HOUSE HAS RULES.
WELL DIFFERENT RULES. AND SO IT WOULD FUNCTIONALLY REPLACE THE GUEST HOUSE.
SO THERE'S NOT THAT OVERLAP. AND SO FOR THE LAND USE IS LISTED IN THE DISTRICT REGULATIONS.
WE ARE ONLY LOOKING AT THE AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT FOR NOW.
AND WE ARE PROPOSING FOR A ADUS THAT ARE BY RIGHT TO BE THOSE THAT ARE EITHER ATTACHED TO OR LOCATED WITHIN AN EXISTING PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE. SO THINK OF LIKE AN ADDITION OR A CONVERSION OF AN EXISTING SPACE FOR EXAMPLE.
AND THEN BY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, IT WOULD BE FOR THE DETACHED UNITS, WHAT YOU WOULD TYPICALLY SEE AS YOUR GUEST HOUSE NOW, WHICH IS ALSO BY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. AND SO YEAH, TO PUT THAT IN A BETTER WORDS AT THE BOTTOM THERE.
THANK YOU. I THINK IT'S FROZEN. THERE WE GO. OKAY.
SO DIVING INTO THE SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS.
WE HAVE A NICE STARTING WELL, THERE'S A STATEMENT OF INTENT.
IT BRINGS IN THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND THE BUILDING CODE.
JUST, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY'RE AWARE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH STUFF WITH THOSE AGENCIES TO GET GET THOSE APPROVED AGAINST THE BUILDING CODE AND FOR THE INDIVIDUAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT PERMITS ISSUED FOR PROPERTIES IN SUBSECTION C WE WE ARE AT LEAST FOR, FOR STARTERS, LOOKING AT A RESTRICTION TO ALLOW FOR ONLY ONE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT ON A SINGLE LOT.
I THINK THE COMPUTER KNOWS HOW LATE IT IS. THERE WE GO.
ALL RIGHT, SO SUBSECTION D WE'RE LOOKING AT A 3.5 ACRE MINIMUM.
AND WE DID TALK ABOUT THIS SOME DURING THE COMP PLAN THE ACREAGE REQUIREMENT THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WE HAD IT APPLY TO ALL OF THEM. THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOUND IT WAS ONLY NECESSARY FOR THE DETACHED ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS WHEN WE FIRST PRESENTED THIS TO THEM.
[03:00:07]
AND SO WE'VE INCORPORATED THAT CHANGE. AND LET'S SEE, YES, WE HAVE A PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE SETBACK SINCE IT IS GOING TO BE LIVED OUT OF JUST LIKE A PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE WOULD BE. I THINK THAT THOSE SETBACKS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.SO WE HAVE A STARTING WINDOW OF 750 TO 1500 SQUARE FEET FOR FLOOR AREA SIZE AND A BUILT IN PROVISION TO ALLOW FOR UP TO 3000FT² IN FLOOR AREA IF THE ADU IS PRINCIPALLY BELOW GRADE OR IF IT IS A CONVERSION OF EXISTING SPACE.
AND SO THE CONCERN FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION WAS THAT IF YOU HAVE FOR EXAMPLE, A 6000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE, 2000 ON THREE DIFFERENT LEVELS, AND YOU WANTED TO CONVERT YOUR BASEMENT UNDER THAT SIZE WINDOW, 715 HUNDRED, YOU COULD NOT. AND WE DIDN'T FEEL LIKE THAT WAS THE CONCERN THAT WE WERE TRYING TO ADDRESS WITH THE CODE.
IT'S MOSTLY FOR THE DETACHED AND ALSO TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN CLEARLY DELINEATE WHICH UNIT IS ACCESSORY, WHICH ONE'S PRINCIPLE, AND WHICH ONE'S ACCESSORY.
SO THAT IS A COMMON CODE YOU'LL SEE IN ADU ORDINANCES IN VIRGINIA AS SOMETHING FOR SIZE.
AND WE DO HAVE REQUIREMENTS FOR ADDITIONAL PARKING.
BASICALLY JUST WOULD BE THE SAME IF YOU, BILL, IF WE ALLOWED FOR TWO HOUSES ON A PROPERTY OTHER THAN THE GUEST HOUSE SITUATION, IT WOULD BE THE SAME. SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE TWO OFF STREET PARKING SPACES FOR A HOUSE.
THIS IS A, ALBEIT SMALLER HOUSE. STILL SAME REQUIREMENT.
SO THAT MATCHES. AND ALSO I PUT AN ASTERISK. MIGHT NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT INITIALLY LIKE THIS, BUT THERE IS THE ABILITY TO WAIVE IF YOU HAVE A SITUATION THAT'S I GUESS SPECIAL OR WHERE YOU FIND IT UNNECESSARY FOR THE SIZE WINDOW TO APPLY. SO SAME DEAL. IT'S A SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATION CAN BE WAIVED.
NOW, AS A SUPPLEMENTARY, ANY OF THE SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS CAN BE WAIVED. I JUST WANTED TO POINT IT OUT THERE THAT IF YOUR CONCERN IS OVER THE SPECIFIC THE SPECIFICITY OF THE WINDOW, YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO MODIFY IT IF YOU FIND THAT.
OR IS THIS GETTING BACK INTO THE 200 100 FOOT SETBACK ON THE SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTAL? LIKE THE WE HAVE 750. WE HAVE 1500. AND THEN WE SAY, WELL, IT MIGHT BE BIGGER AND IT MIGHT BE SMALLER.
YOU KNOW, THAT THAT COULD DEVELOP OVER TIME. I WOULD ARGUE THAT WITH THE SHORT TERM RENTAL SETBACK, WE HAVE HAD DIFFERENT BOARDS CONSIDERING DIFFERENT THINGS FOR THIS.
BUT I MEAN, IS IT DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO START THIS OFF WITH SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATION? RIGHT OFF THE BAT. I WOULD ONLY SAY MY $0.02 WORTH WOULD BE THAT IT'S GOING TO BE THE CASE BY CASE BASIS.
I MEAN, NOT EVERY HOUSE IS GOING TO BE OVER THAT 3000FT².
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WE'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, IF YOU COME ACROSS A HOUSE LIKE THAT, MAYBE ONCE IN A BLUE MOON, IT GIVES THAT APPLICANT A REQUEST. BUT IT'S THE REASON FOR STARTING THIS.
LIKE THIS IS ALL BRAND NEW. SO THERE'S THE REASON FOR STARTING WITH A SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATION THAT OFFERS THE ABILITY TO GO BEYOND WHAT'S IN THE REGULATION, WHAT WE WANT. SO THE THE ASTERISK IS NOT IN THE CODE.
IT IS JUST A REMINDER OF THE SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATION CODE THAT SAYS IF YOU FIND IT'S NOT NECESSARY, YOU CAN WAIVE IT. SO THAT APPLIES TO EVERY SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATION IN THE WARREN COUNTY CODE. FOR EVERY LAND USE IN THAT ENTIRE ARTICLE OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
YOU CAN WAIVE ANYTHING IN THERE. AND SO THIS ISN'T SAYING.
A B C D E F G H I J. AGAIN IT'S A J. MAYBE IN THAT PORTION THE ATTORNEY ASSISTED US A LITTLE BIT.
OH YEAH, HE DRAFTED THAT. HIS IDEA, HIS THINKING WAS THAT IF IT'S PRINCIPALLY BELOW GROUND, YOU WON'T SEE IT. AND SO THE CONCERN ISN'T THERE.
THE THE ASTERISK IS, IS ONLY REFERENCING F. THAT'S WHAT MADE ME CONFUSED.
SO ALL SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS ARE. YES. AS A SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATION THE BOARD CAN WAIVE IT.
OKAY. ANYWAY, YES. I WAS EVEN THINKING ON THE ON THE LOW END.
THE 750 SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY HIGH MINIMUM. LIKE YOU COULD HAVE A VERY NICE ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT,
[03:05:01]
YOU KNOW, PUT ABOVE A GARAGE OR IN AN ATTIC OR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S 500FT².AND AND, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST WONDERING IF WE WANT TO TO LOWER THAT OR.
I KNOW IT'S FAVORABLE, BUT AGAIN, I'M THINKING OF THE SHORT TERM RENTAL ISSUE WHERE YOU COULD CERTAINLY LOWER IT. I THINK THERE IS SOME CONCERN, AT LEAST FROM CERTAIN AREAS IN THE COUNTY, THAT THIS WILL RESULT IN A BUNCH OF TINY HOMES BEING BUILT.
AND SO THAT WAS PART OF, OF THE CONSIDERATION WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY WEREN'T TOO SMALL.
OKAY. YES. YEAH. THINKING OF TINY HOMES. THOSE ARE USUALLY LIKE 300FT².
LIKE THEY'RE, THEY'RE THEY'RE BASICALLY TRAILERS.
YEAH. SO I STILL THINK YOU COULD LOWER IT TO 500 AND NOT OPEN THE FLOODGATE TO TINY HOMES.
YEAH, AND I HAVE MORE DETAIL. I DIDN'T BRING IT WITH ME.
AND SO I BELIEVE THE 750 WAS BASED ON WHAT I WAS SEEING REPETITIVELY FOR A SIZE WINDOW.
BUT EVERYONE DOES A LITTLE DIFFERENT IF IT'S A BETTER.
YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. A LOT OF THEM JUST ALLOW THEM BY.
RIGHT. NO RULES, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. SO WE'RE WE'RE TRYING A DIFFERENT APPROACH.
WITH THESE GUIDELINES IN PLACE AND WITH THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE DETACHED.
SO MOVING ON IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE SHORT TERM RENTAL CODE THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU EXCEED THE OCCUPANCY OF THE ADU, IT'S A VIOLATION. SAME DEAL FOR, SUBSECTION I.
THE IDEA WAS TO AVOID ANY UNSIGHTLY, EXTENSIVELY OVERUSED COVERED BREEZEWAY.
AND SO IF YOU'VE GOT TWO HOUSES 100 PLUS FEET APART, YOU CAN'T ATTACH THEM WITH COVERED BREEZEWAY.
IS, IS IS THERE A REASON BETWEEN 25 OR BEHIND 25.
YES. PRINCIPALLY I'VE SEEN ONE THAT'S 25FT BEFORE.
AND I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE LONGER THAN THAT. SO THAT WAS MY THINKING FOR IT.
FOR SAID THE CODE THE ONLY REAL LIKE, I GUESS, SIMILAR, I GUESS, KIND OF CODE AND IT'S NOT REALLY SIMILAR, BUT IF AN ACCESSORY BUILDING IS WITHIN FOUR FEET OF A HOUSE, TECHNICALLY CARRIES THE SETBACKS OF THE HOUSE AND NOT AN ACCESSORY BUILDING FOUR FOOT IS PROBABLY A LITTLE A LITTLE TOO SMALL. YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE TRYING TO DO A DETACHED GARAGE OR, WELL, IF YOU HAVE A DETACHED GARAGE, YOU DON'T WANT TO GO THROUGH THE MESS OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND YOU WANT TO ATTACH IT TO YOU KNOW, DO YOUR ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, THEN IT HAS TO BE WITHIN 25FT.
BASICALLY, WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO USE THE COVERED BREEZEWAY TO CIRCUMNAVIGATE THE CODE.
THE CP REQUIREMENT FOR THE DETACHED UNITS I GUESS UP TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.
I HAVE TALKED TO PEOPLE ABOUT DOING LIKE A 200 FOOT BREEZEWAY BEFORE TO MAKE IT ATTACHED, NOT FOR AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, BUT IN THEORY YOU COULD. AND YES, WE DID GET THE RESTRICTION ON ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL, WHICH WAS IDENTIFIED DURING THE COMP PLAN AS SOMETHING THAT YOU ALL DESIRED.
I THINK THAT'S IT. YES. WHY? WHY DO WE? WHY DO WE RESTRICT THE USE OF AN EDU AS.
AS A PART OF A SHORT TERM? YES. SO THIS IS WHERE THE COMP PLAN COMES INTO PLAY.
AND SO YOU KNOW, AS A PERMANENT HOUSING SOLUTION YOU KNOW, A MAYBE EVEN A FAMILY MEMBER.
IT'S ALSO SOMETHING I COVER IN MY COVER SHEET IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO A FAMILY SUBDIVISION.
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GO THROUGH THE HASSLE OF ACTUALLY DIVIDING THE LOTS.
BUT WITH THE. YOU GUYS MADE ME LOSE MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT.
SO IT'S THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT IT CAME OUT AS. I THINK THAT THE ADU CAN BE USED.
SHORT TERM RENTAL. YEAH. IT CANNOT BE USED AS SHORT TERM RENTAL.
CORRECT CAN BE USED AS A FAMILY MEMBER, ETC..
[03:10:05]
SO IT'S IT'S TO PROVIDE THOSE FORMS OF HOUSING WHICH WE IDENTIFIED AS A NEED.AND GIVEN THAT THIS, THE POINT IS TO HAVE THIS IDENTIFIED, I THINK THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS TO CREATE LIKE A HOUSING OPTION TO RELIEVE HOUSING PRESSURE, AND ESPECIALLY FOR, ESPECIALLY FOR PEOPLE THAT ALREADY HAVE SOME LAND AND MAYBE EITHER HAVE CHILDREN OR HAVE PARENTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND I ASKED FOR SOME INFORMATION TO BREAK DOWN THE LOTS, AND GOING FROM FIVE DOWN TO THREE AND A HALF BROUGHT 500 MORE PARCELS IN. BUT IF YOU TAKE IF YOU GO TO TWO ACRES, THAT BRINGS IN 1250 PARCELS.
SO I WOULD I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, WHY WHY WOULD WE? WHAT'S WITH THREE AND A HALF? I MEAN, WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE A HOUSING OPPORTUNITY AND THE OPPORTUNITY, YOU KNOW, IT'S AGRICULTURAL. SO IT'S IT'S I LIVE NO, I'M ON R1, BUT STILL THERE.
ONE ACRE LOTS. AND IF I LOOK AT THE TWO ACRES ACROSS THE STREET THERE'S THERE'S NO WAY THAT'S DENSE.
EVERYTHING IN THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS A SEPTIC.
A WELL ON THAT HOUSE, ON THAT ACRE OF SEPTIC WELL IN THAT HOUSE.
AND IT'S NOT CONSIDERED DENSE. SO BRINGING IN THOSE 1200 MORE OPPORTUNITIES SEEMS LIKE IT MEETS THE IDEA OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO FOR THE. I MEAN, IT'S THE WHOLE PURPOSE THAT NOW.
IT'S A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. IT SHOULD BE VERY HIGH LEVEL GOALS AND OBJECTIVES.
YOU KNOW, THE FIVE ACRES IS ACTUALLY WHAT WE STARTED WITH IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
ASKED THAT WE BUMP IT DOWN TO 3.5. WHAT WAS THEIR REASONING? WHAT WAS THEIR LOGIC? WELL, IT WAS MORE LIKE FIVE.
I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT 3.5. CHANGE IT TO 3.5.
I'LL GIVE YOU THE LOGIC. HERE'S THE HERE'S THE.
MINIMUM ACREAGE FOR A LOT IN THE AG DISTRICT IS TO.
MINIMUM ACREAGE FOR A FAMILY SUBDIVISION IS ONE AND A HALF.
SO IF YOU HAVE A THREE AND A HALF ACRE LOT AND YOU WANT TO DO A FAMILY SUBDIVISION AND YOU HAVE THAT SUBDIVISION ABILITY TO DO THAT, YOU CAN SUBDIVIDE ONE AND A HALF ACRES OFF AND GET ANOTHER LOT FOR THAT FAMILY MEMBER WITH.
THAT'S WHERE THAT CAME FROM. RIGHT, RIGHT. WITH AN ADU, YOU GOT THREE AND A HALF ACRES.
IT'S BASICALLY THE EQUIVALENT OF BEING ABLE TO DO THAT AS A FAMILY SUBDIVISION.
THE OTHER OPTION THAT IT DOES ALLOW YOU TO DO IS AFTER FIVE YEARS OF OWNERSHIP, IF THAT FAMILY MEMBER, IF A FAMILY MEMBER IS RENTING THAT AND WANTS TO ACTUALLY PURCHASE THAT HOUSE IN THE LAND, THEN YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT LAND TO MEET THE CODE REQUIREMENT FOR A FAMILY SUBDIVISION SO THEY CAN ACTUALLY COME IN AND DO SO.
THERE'S GOING TO BE TWO THINGS THAT THIS WILL AFFECT.
LET ME JUST TRAIN A THOUGHT. SO WE WE THIS ALLOWS FOLKS TO NOT HAVE TO APPLY FOR A SUBDIVISION VARIANCE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A FAMILY MEMBER LIVE IN A HOUSE NEXT TO THEM WITHIN A FIVE YEAR TIME PERIOD THAT THEY HAVE OWNED THE PROPERTY.
AND THEN AT A FIVE YEAR MARK, THEY CAN THEN SUBDIVIDE IT.
THAT'S THE INITIAL LOGIC THAT WE HAD FOR 3.5.
FIRST OF ALL, THAT WOULD THAT WOULD ALL STILL BE TRUE FOR ANYONE WHO HAD THREE AND A HALF OR MORE.
RIGHT? RIGHT. EVEN IF THERE WERE ADUS WERE ALLOWED FOR TWO TO GET THOSE 1200 MORE OPPORTUNITIES.
WELL, IF YOU WEREN'T, A FAMILY MEMBER WOULD BE FOUR ACRES.
SO YOU'D HAVE TWO TWO ACRE LOTS WOULD BE. YEAH, IF YOU WEREN'T A FAMILY MEMBER.
SO THE MINIMUM IS IF YOU HAVE A FAMILY MEMBER, IT'S A TWO ACRE AND A ONE AND A HALF.
YEAH. THEN YOU COULD SUBDIVIDE IT AT FIVE YEARS AND YOU'D HAVE TWO, TWO ACRES IN ONE AND A HALF.
BUT THEN THAT PERSON WHO'S ON THE ONE AND A HALF COULD TURN AROUND AND SELL IT TO SOMEONE ELSE. THAT'S NOT FAMILY ANYMORE. THAT'S CORRECT. THEY CAN SELL THE RESIDUAL LOT, AND THAT'S HOW WE THAT'S HOW WE DEAL WITH IT NOW. OKAY. I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT WAS BAKED INTO THIS.
[03:15:04]
BUT THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE WOULD BE A TWO ACRE LOT.IT MAKES HIM GO WAY THERE. IT'S JUST NOT A FEASIBLE LAND USE TO REALLY ENFORCE NUMBER ONE. AND IF SOMEBODY'S GOING TO BUILD A $100,000 SINGLE BEDROOM HOUSE TO SAY I CAN ONLY RENT IT, I CAN'T RENT IT TO ANYBODY. I CAN ONLY HAVE FRIENDS AND FAMILIES STAY THERE, AND THEY CAN ONLY STAY THERE UP TO SIX MONTHS.
THEY CAN'T ESTABLISH A PERMANENT RESIDENCE THERE.
SO IT'S LIKE MOST OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN AS THESE IS PEOPLE WHO ARE WANTING TO MOVE TO THE COUNTY, AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO BUILD THEIR DREAM HOME, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO STAY IN A LITTLE CABIN FOR A LITTLE WHILE, AND THEN BUILD THAT DREAM HOME AND THEN CONVERT THE CABIN TO MAYBE A SHOP OR A STUDIO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
OR IN THE CASE OF MISS KELLER'S DISTRICT. THESE FOLKS BUILD A REALLY NICE BARN AND BUILT AN APARTMENT ABOVE IT, AND THEY'RE GOING TO LIVE THERE UNTIL THEY CAN AFFORD TO BUILD THEIR NICE THREE OR 4 OR 5 BEDROOM HOME.
SO SO THAT'S THOSE ARE THE TWO LOGIC I WOULD SAY.
SO JUST. SO WHAT ARE YOU ONLY YOU'RE LIMITED TO THE AGRICULTURE ZONE.
YEAH. THAT WAS WHAT WAS IDENTIFIED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
SO A LOT OF IT WAS BASED ON THE ACREAGE AS WELL.
YOUR MINIMUM ACREAGE FOR RESIDENTIAL ONE, FOR EXAMPLE, IS ONE ACRE.
A LOT OF THE EXISTING LOTS ARE LIKE A THIRD OF AN ACRE.
WELL. AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID.
SO AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE INTRODUCING A NEW USE TO SEE HOW IT WORKS.
BEFORE WE OPEN UP MORE OF THE COUNTY. YEAH. AND WE DO PROHIBIT FAMILY SUBDIVISIONS AT ALL.
THAT'S TRUE. YEAH. I CAN SEE WITH OUR ONE. YEAH.
YEAH. SO IF THERE'S NOTHING ELSE. WHAT? NO. YOU HAVE ONE MORE.
WELL, I I'M I'M ACTUALLY TRYING TO INTRODUCE THE IDEA THAT THIS WOULD BE WHEN IT'S COMING TO US NEXT TUESDAY, IT WOULD BE A TWO ACRE MINIMUM, NOT THREE AND A HALF.
YEAH, YOU COULD DEFINITELY CHANGE THAT ON THE FLY. THAT'S AN EASY FIX. OKAY.
I'LL JUST. WE'VE ADVERTISED. SORRY. WE'VE ADVERTISED THIS 3.5 THOUGH FOR THE MEETING NEXT WEEK, SO YOU'LL NEED TO CHANGE IT AT THE MEETING. THE EVERYTHING YOU SAID ABOUT THAT.
THREE AND A HALF STILL WOULD STILL APPLY FOR THOSE OF AT THREE AND A HALF, RIGHT? YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND I JUST WANT TO THROW THIS IN.
BIG, BIG PICTURE. WE JUST DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CLUSTER SUBDIVISIONS THAT ARE COMING THROUGH.
BECAUSE YOU GOT TO BUILD ROADS TO STATE STANDARDS.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LOT OF LOTS THAT JUSTIFY THE COST TO BUILD ROADS AND THE STORMWATER.
ALL THE STATE STANDARDS FOR A CLUSTER SUBDIVISION.
EXACTLY. I MEAN, FOR FOR BUY, RIGHT. YOU CAN DO UP TO SIX LOTS BY CUP, TEN LOTS.
HAD TO TAKE EXCUSE ME, TAKE OVER ONE. BECAUSE THE PROPERTY, THE GUY DIED.
ANYWAY AND WE'RE JUST NOT SEEING CLASS C SUBDIVISIONS LARGE.
BY DOING THIS, WE'RE DISTRIBUTING GROWTH OF THE COUNTY OVER THAT 60% OF AREA.
THAT'S STILL IN THE AGRICULTURAL ZONING DISTRICT.
WE'RE DISTRIBUTING THAT HOUSING. SO YOU'RE NOT.
BUT THIS IS AN OPTION FOR THE COUNTY TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND GIVE FAMILIES AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY, MOM AND DAD, WE CAN BUILD YOU UP A 1200 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE NEXT TO US AND YOU CAN MOVE IN.
WE'LL TAKE CARE OF YOU. OR YOU WANT KIDS. YOU WANT TO BUILD YOUR FIRST HOUSE.
HERE YOU GO. YOU CAN BUILD THAT NEXT TO YOU. AND IF YOU WANT TO STAY HERE, GREAT.
AND WHEN YOU'RE READY TO MOVE OUT, WE CAN RENT IT, YOU KNOW.
AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT THIS IS ALLOWING. WE CAN'T CONTROL THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS IN THE TOWN WHO HAVE LARGE TRACTS OF LAND THAT THE COUNTY AND NEXT TO THEM, SO THAT THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, SUBDIVIDE IT AND BUILD DEVELOPMENTS, EXCEPT FOR DOCTOR DALEY'S AREA.
[03:20:02]
THEY THEY HAVE DONE THAT A LITTLE BIT. BUT THIS IS A WAY FOR US TO BE PROACTIVE ABOUT THE HOUSING SITUATION.I WOULD JUST ALSO ADD TO THAT THAT YOU CAN'T EVEN LIKE THE WHOLE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.
WELL, SEPTIC, THAT ALL IS A PREREQUISITE, RIGHT? YOU CAN'T EVEN TOUCH THIS STUFF UNLESS YOU CAN MEET THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT REQUIREMENTS.
SO YEAH, OBVIOUSLY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT WOULD HAVE ENFORCEMENT THERE AND INCLUDING IT IN OUR CODE IF IT'S BY SEP AND THEY DON'T FOLLOW THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT, WE COULD REVOKE IT. RIGHT. I'D HAVE TO DEMO THEIR 80.
OKAY. I APPRECIATE Y'ALL CONSIDERING THIS. ALL RIGHT, SO, ARE WE READY FOR DOCTOR DALY NOW?
[F. Update - County Administrator Recruitment - Ed Daley ]
YES, SIR. THANK YOU. REMIND YOU THAT YOU HAVE A DRAFT FROM THE TOWN OF THE LIAISON MEETING NEXT WEEK. AND WE NEED TO KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER ITEMS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AT IT.YOU WILL. JUST UPDATE. YOU'VE RECEIVED ANY RECENT COMMUNICATION FROM MR. CRIM, AND HE IS GOING TO BE SENDING YOU ALL OF YOUR YOU HAVE 40 CANDIDATE RESUMES, AND OF THAT YOU HAVE SEVEN CANDIDATES THAT THEY HAVE PROFILED AND THEY ARE RECOMMENDING.
AND THERE ARE TWO CANDIDATES. THE BOARD IS RECOMMENDING THAT HAVE BEEN PROFILED.
NEXT WEEK WE WILL HAVE A WORK SESSION BEFORE YOUR MEETING ON TUESDAY THE 15TH TO NUMBER ONE. HAVE YOU BRING YOUR LIST OF YOUR PREFERRED CANDIDATES TO INTERVIEW SO THAT YOU CAN SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE WANT TO INTERVIEW EACH CANDIDATE SO YOU CAN SUBMIT AND MR. CRIM RECOMMENDED. FIVE. FOUR IS OKAY. SIX IS OKAY.
NINE TOO MANY. BUT THAT RANGE TARGET OF FIVE.
HE GAVE YOU A LIST OF VARIOUS ACTIVITIES THAT WE WILL TALK ABOUT NEXT AGAIN NEXT TUESDAY.
AS TO WHICH ACTIVITIES YOU WANT AND SO FORTH.
AND THE SUGGESTION WAS MADE TALKING TO MR. BUTLER THIS MORNING THAT THEY, THE CANDIDATES SHOULD DO A PRESENTATION. I WILL BE SENDING YOU TOMORROW THREE TOPICS FROM MR. CRIM THAT HE THOUGHT WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THIS MIGHT BE THE KIND OF TOPIC TO, TO USE THAT WOULD EVERYBODY COULD RESPOND TO AND IT WOULD BE A NEUTRAL TOPIC.
AND SO I WOULD LIKE YOU TO LOOK AT THOSE AND ADD ANY OTHERS THAT YOU LIKE.
SO THAT NEXT TUESDAY THE BOARD CAN SAY WE WOULD LIKE WHATEVER TOPIC TO BE THE TOPIC THAT THEY WILL ALL MAKE A PRESENTATION ON. AND THAT'S MY UPDATE, SIR. OKAY, SO JUST TO MAKE SURE.
SO NEXT WEEK WE SHOULD HAVE SELECTED AT LEAST FIVE MEETING BY TUESDAY WITH YOUR CANDIDATE.
WITH OUR CAMP BY NEXT TUESDAY. YES. VERY GOOD.
OKAY. JUST A REMINDER, DOCTOR DALY. THAT NEXT WEEK, I'LL BE OUT OF TOWN AGAIN.
SO I'LL BE REMOTE. IF WE COULD SET THAT UP. YES, I WILL DO THAT.
THANK YOU FOR REMINDING ME. OKAY. SO, DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? SO MOVED. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED?
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.