* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:03] HEY, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, [II. Call to Order] IT'S SLIGHTLY AFTER SEVEN O'CLOCK. WE WILL CALL THE OCTOBER 8TH, 2025 MEETING OF THE WARREN COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSIONED ORDER. FIRST THING ON OUR AGENDA TONIGHT IS THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. PLEASE RISE AS TO YOU'RE ABLE AND REMOVE YOUR HATS. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE, FLAG THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA TO THE REPUBLIC WHICH STANDS, WHICH STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD AND INVIS WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. THANK YOU SO MUCH. NEXT ITEM IS [IV. Adoption of the Agenda] THE ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE AGENDA AS PRESENTED. SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. A. AYE. OPPOSED? HAVE IT OR AGENDA? AGENDAS ADOPTED. PARDON ME. NEXT TO THE [IV. Adoption of the Regular Meeting Minutes] ADOPTION OF THE REGULAR MEETING MINUTES ON SEPTEMBER 10TH, 2025. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE MINUTES AS PRESENTED. SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. OPPOSED MINUTES HAVE BEEN ADOPTED. NEXT IS [VI. Public Presentations] PUBLIC PRESENTATIONS. PUBLIC PRESENTATIONS ARE LIMITED TO ISSUES THAT ARE NOT INCLUDED ON THE MEETING AGENDA. IT'S INTENDED AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PUBLIC TO GIVE INPUT ON RELATIVE PLANNING ISSUES, RELEVANT PLANNING ISSUES, AND NOT INTENDED AS A QUESTION AND ANSWER PERIOD. SO IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING ON YOUR MIND THAT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA, PLEASE COME FORWARD. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND SPEAK. SEE NO ONE COME FORWARD. WE'LL MOVE ON INTO PUBLIC [VII.A. Z2025-09-01 - Zoning Text Amendments for Backyard Beekeeping - An ordinance to amend Chapter 180 of the Warren County Code (zoning ordinance) to amend the district regulations for the Residential-One (R-1) zoning district to add "backyard beekeeping" as an accessory use permitted by right and to add supplementary regulations for "backyard beekeeping". - Chase Lenz, Zoning Administrator] HEARINGS. OUR FIRST ONE TONIGHT, Z 20 25 0 9 0 1 ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT FOR BACKYARD BEEKEEPING. AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER 180, THE WARREN COUNTY CODE TO AMEND THE DISTRICT REGULATIONS FOR THE RES R ONE ZONING DISTRICTS TO ADD BACKYARD BEEKEEPING AS AN ACCESSORY USE PERMITTED BY RIGHT AND TO ADD SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS FOR BACKYARD BEEKEEPING. UH, KELLY. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. ATTACHED YOU'LL FIND A DRAFT ORDINANCE TO AN ACT SUBSECTION 180 DASH 22 C SEVEN TO MAKE BACKYARD BEEKEEPING PERMISSIBLE BY RIGHT AS AN ACCESSORY USE IN THE RESIDENTIAL ONE ZONING DISTRICT TO ENACT SECTION 180 DASH 35.3 TO ADD SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS FOR BACKYARD BEEKEEPING. THESE TEXT AMENDMENTS WERE REQUESTED BY AN APPLICANT WHO WISHES TO PURSUE THIS LAND USE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE PRINCIPAL DWELLING FOR HIS PROPERTY ZONED RESIDENTIAL ONE. THESE AMENDMENTS FOR BACKYARD BEEKEEPING FOLLOW THE SAME FORMAT AS THE EXISTING BACKYARD CHICKEN, UH, LAND USE AND SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS. THE PROPOSED SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS INCLUDE A STATEMENT OF INTENT, A REQUIREMENT FOR THE ACQUISITION OF HONEYBEES AND BEEHIVE CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE IN ACCORDANCE WITH TITLE 3.2. CHAPTER 44 OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA, AS DETERMINED BY THE STATE AIST, A ZONING PERMIT REQUIREMENT TO BE REVIEWED ANNUALLY AND CERTAIN PHYSICAL AND MANAGEMENT RELATED REQUIREMENTS. THE PROPOSED PERMIT REQUIRES REQUIREMENTS INCLUDE A LIMIT OF NO MORE THAN THREE BEEHIVES PER ONE HALF ACRE WITH A MAXIMUM OF 12 BEEHIVES PER LOT OR CONTIGUOUS LOTS UNDER THE SAME OWNERSHIP. WRITTEN PERMISSION FROM THE OWNER FOR RENTAL PROPERTIES, A MINIMUM SETBACK OF 30 FEET FROM ALL PROPERTY LINES FOR THE BEEHIVES WITH A FRONT YARD RESTRICTION, A RESTRICTION ON THE CELL OF GOODS OR SERVICES RELATING TO THE HONEYBEES. A FLYAWAY BARRIER REQUIREMENT FOR A SOLID FENCE OR HEDGE AT LEAST SIX FEET IN HEIGHT TO BE PLACED ALONG THE SIDE OF THE BEEHIVE THAT CONTAINS THE ENTRANCE TO THE HIVE WITH THE BARRIER EXTENDING AT LEAST THREE FEET PAST BOTH SIDES OF THE HIVE. AND A MANAGEMENT PLAN TO BE REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE VIRGINIA COOPERATIVE EXTENSION OFFICE, INCLUDING A SITE SKETCH SHOWING THE LOCATION OF THE BEEHIVES IN RELATION TO THE PRINCIPAL DWELLING SETBACK DISTANCES FROM THE BEEHIVE LOCATIONS TO PROPERTY LINES AND THE LOCATION AND DIMENSIONS OF THE FLYAWAY BARRIERS. A PLAN FOR MONITORING THE HEALTH OF THE BEES WITH AN ACTION PLAN FOR WHEN THE BEEKEEPER BECOMES AWARE OF DISEASED BEES IN HIS OR HER BEEHIVES. BIOSECURITY MEASURES MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE FOR THE BEEHIVES AND A NUMBER OF BEEHIVES. EXCUSE ME. OKAY. LET'S SEE. WITH THAT, YES, WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. HAS ANYONE SIGNED TO SPEAK? ALLISON DENISE. VAL, THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON, ON THE, THE ISSUE OF BACKYARD BEEKEEPING. I'M THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE BEEKEEPERS OF THE NORTHERN CHAMBER. WE, MA'AM, WE NEED YOUR, WE NEED YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS ALSO. OKAY. SORRY. DENISE. VOWEL 3 6 4 LANDS RUN ROAD, BENTONVILLE. I ACTUALLY LIVE IN BROWNTOWN, BUT, UM, I, I AM THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE BEEKEEPERS OF THE [00:05:01] NORTHERN SHENANDOAH, WHICH IS A B CLUB WITHIN THE FOUR COUNTY AREA. UM, WE MAKE EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPPA HANOCK AND, AND INVITE THEM TO JOIN US AT OUR MEETINGS. THE CLUB IS A, IS A 5 0 1 C3. IT IS EDUCATIONAL IN NATURE AND I'M ONE OF FOUR INSTRUCTORS FOR BEEKEEPING. UP UNTIL THREE YEARS AGO, WE DIDN'T HAVE BEEKEEPING CLASSES HERE IN IN FRONT ROYAL IN WARREN COUNTY UNTIL I VOLUNTEERED TO TEACH THEM. UH, I COVER MOST OF THE ISSUES THAT WERE RAISED, UH, IN MY CLASSES. UM, I AM A PO I AM IN FAVOR OF THE AMENDMENT TO ADD BEEKEEPING AS AN ACCESSORY USE PERMITTED BY WRIGHT. I WAS DELIGHTED WHEN I FIRST SAW THE LITTLE BLURB IN THE PAPER ABOUT THAT I AM UTTERLY OPPOSED TO THE SUPPLEMENTAL REGULATIONS. THEY ARE UNNEEDED. THEY DO NOT TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE BY BEEKEEPERS. WE HAVE BEEKEEPERS AND SUBDIVISIONS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY WITHOUT THESE REGULATIONS. LAST YEAR, BETWEEN JUNE 24TH, JUNE OF 2024 AND JANUARY OF 20 25, 1 OUT OF EVERY TWO BEEHIVES IN THIS COUNTRY DIED. BACKYARD BEEKEEPERS DID A FAR BETTER JOB OF KEEPING THEIR BEES ALIVE THAN THE COMMERCIAL OR SIDELINE OR BEEKEEPERS. NO BEEKEEPER GETS RICH FROM SELLING THE PRODUCTS OF THE HIGH, AND THEY CAN'T SELL BEES UNLESS THEY ARE STATE INSPECTED. THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN ANNUAL INSPECTION IN ORDER TO SELL BEES, BUT HONEY IS HANDLED A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. BUT ALLOWING NO COMMERCIAL SALES CRIPPLES THE BEEKEEPERS IN THEIR ABILITY TO KEEP UP WITH THE COST OF BEEKEEPING TO GET STARTED IN BEEKEEPING WITH TWO HIVES IS GOING TO COST YOU IN EXCESS OF A THOUSAND DOLLARS. AND THEN THE ANNUAL MAINTENANCE COSTS, UM, NOT JUST PAINTING HIVES OR TAKING CARE OF THAT, BUT TAKING CARE OF THE BEES MEDICALLY IS AN ALSO AN INCREDIBLE EXPENSE IN TIME AND MONEY. UM, THIS WOULD BE A STEP BACKWARD FOR BEEKEEPING WITHIN WARREN COUNTY. THE OTHER, AND IN COMPARISON TO THE OTHER THREE COUNTIES THAT NORTH OF US THAT COMPRISE BONDS, IT IS A BIG STEP BACKWARD BECAUSE ALL OF THOSE COUNTIES ARE IN THE PROCESS OF, OR HAVE BECOME THE CITY OF WINCHESTER INCLUDED. UH, THREE MINUTE TIME LIMIT IT. THANK YOU. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. EITHER JOHN OR PAM WONDERLICH, WHICHEVER, WHICH, WHICHEVER ONE OF YOU WISHES TO SPEAK FIRST. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME'S PAM WONDERLICH. I LIVE AT 4 58 LAKESIDE DRIVE. AND I'D LIKE TO SHARE SOME INFORMATION ABOUT BEES AND BEEKEEPING JOURNEY THAT WE'VE HAD BEFORE STARTING BEEKEEPING. WE ASKED OUR NEIGHBORS IF THEY HAD ANY OBJECTIONS. THERE WERE NONE. AND WE PROCEEDED TO TAKE A BEEKEEPING CLASS AND GOT A MENTOR AS PART OF THE CLASS. OUR MENTOR HELPED DETERMINE THE BEST HOME FOR OUR APIARY, WHICH WAS DIFFICULT GIVEN THE TERRAIN, THE SETBACK OF OUR HOME ON OUR LOT, WHICH IS DOWNHILL SEPTIC LOCATION AND ACCESS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PUT BARE FENCE POLES ON YOUR SEPTIC FIELD. LOCATION OF NEIGHBORING HOMES, TREES THAT BORDER AND SHADE MOST OF THE PROPERTY REQUIREMENTS FOR THE BEES TO THRIVE, SUCH AS A MIX OF SHADE AND SUN AND WELL DRAINED LAND. JUST TO NAME A FEW BASED ON THE INPUT. WE BUILT OUR APIARY AND WE HAVE HAD BEEKEEPING FOR FOUR YEARS NOW. THE NEIGHBORS HAVE ALSO BEEN INTERESTED IN WHAT WE'RE DOING IN OUR APIARY WITH HER BEES, AS WELL AS HAVE NOTICED AND LET US KNOW THE INCREASED, UH, PRODUCTIVITY OF THEIR GARDENS, AS WELL AS ADDITIONAL POLLINATORS THAT THEY'RE SEEING. BUTTERFLIES AND OTHERS. BEES ARE NON-AGGRESSIVE INSECTS AS THEY DIE WHEN THEY STAY AN ANIMAL OR A PERSON, THEY PROPAGATE BY SWARMING, WHICH MEANS THE QUEEN AND HALF THE BEES LEAVE A NEW HOME AND LOOK FOR A NEW HOME, WHICH MEANS A NEW UNTENDED HIVE IS CREATED FOR WHICH THERE'S NO DISEASE MONITORING OR CONTROL UNLESS SOMEONE CATCHES THE SWARM, THE REST OF THE BEES ARE LEFT TO BE, TO MAKE A NEW QUEEN. BEEKEEPERS TRY TO REDUCE THIS BY SPLITTING HIVES BEFORE THE HIVE HAS THE TENDENCY NATURALLY TO DO IT, WHICH MEANS THERE'S MORE HIVES IN YOUR AVIARY. BUT NOT ALL OF THE SPLITS ARE SUCCESSFUL 'CAUSE THE QUEEN HAS TO BE CREATED, HATCHED. TAKE A MATING FLIGHT SUCCESSFULLY RETURN WITHOUT HITTING ANY WINDSHIELDS, AND START LAYING EGGS THROUGHOUT THE SPRING. HIVES GROW, MAKE COMB, FILL IT WITH NECTAR AND POLLEN [00:10:01] TO BE EATING THAT. DURING THE WINTER, BEES TRAVEL UP TO THREE MILES LOOKING FOR FOOD. AND IF NECESSARY, AS FAR AS EIGHT MILES IN THE SUMMER, THERE COULD BE A DEARTH OF WHICH THAT MEANS THERE'S NO RESOURCES FOR THE BEES TO EAT. THEY HAVE A TENDENCY THEN TO ROB OTHER HIVES. AND IF THAT HIVE'S NOT STRONG, IT COULD KILL THAT HIVE. TO HELP AVOID PE UH, BEEKEEPERS PUT ROBBING ENTRANCES, WHICH IN A WAY ACT AS THE FLYWAY BARRIER 'CAUSE IT DOES NOT ALLOW DIRECT IN AND OUT OF A HIVE. DURING THIS TIME. THEY CAN ALSO BE FED SUGAR SYRUP TO TRY TO AVOID THIS. IN THE FALL, BEEKEEPERS EVALUATE THEIR HIVES AND IF THESE HIVES ARE NOT STRONG ENOUGH, THEY COMBINE THEM FOR THE WINTER. WINTER. WELL, WINTER WET AND COLD IS BEES ENEMIES, AND IF THEY'VE RUN OUT OF STORE FOOD MANY TIMES THERE'S MISS SIGNIFICANT LOSS OVER THE WINTER. AND THAT IN BETWEEN TIME BEFORE SPRING REALLY GETS HERE. BEES. THANK YOU JOHN . MY NAME IS JOHN WONDERLICH, 4 5 8 LAKESIDE DRIVE. UH, MY WIFE AND I HAVE COME IN RESPONSE TO THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE ON KEEPING BEES. THE BOARD SHOULD BE ENCOURAGING BACKYARD BEEKEEPING RATHER THAN INCREASE THE BURDEN ON THEM. AND THIS PROPOSAL IS A BURDEN ON BEEKEEPERS. WINCHESTER AND BERRYVILLE ARE BOTH WORKING TOWARDS BECOMING BEE CITIES. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO STRIVE FOR HERE IN FRONT ROYAL. IN WARREN COUNTY, BACKYARD BEEKEEPING IS TYPICALLY CONSIDERED UP TO 50 HIVES WITH SIGN LINERS BETWEEN 51 AND 500. AND A COMMERCIAL IS OVER 500 HIVES. LAST YEAR BE LAST YEAR. BACKYARD BEEKEEPERS LOST OVER 55% OF THEIR HIVES. COMMERCIAL, UH, BEEKEEPERS LOST OVER 60 AND THAT'S ACCORDING TO THE APIARY INSPECTORS OF, UH, AMERICA. THIS IS OUR RETIREMENT HOBBY. DUE TO THE PROPERTY THAT WE HAVE, WE CANNOT MOVE THE HIVES TO THE BACKYARD IS THERE'S NOT, THEY WILL NOT SURVIVE IF WE MOVE THEM TO THE BACKYARD. 'CAUSE THE HOUSE SHADES THE ENTIRE BACKYARD, OUR ENTIRE BACKYARD. WE HAVE INVESTED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AND CONSIDER THIS A HOBBY, NOT A MONEYMAKING VENTURE. VIRGINIA MANDATES AN ANNUAL INSPECTION OF BEEKEEPERS SELLING BEES AND HAS SPECIFIC RULES FOR HIGH PLACEMENT, INCLUDING POTENTIAL RESTRICTIONS BY LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS THAT OVERRIDE STATE LAW. BEEKEEPERS MUST ALSO PROVIDE A WATER SOURCE AND MAY NEED A FLIGHT BARRIER PATH BARRIER DEPENDING ON THE HIGH LOCATION. IN PROXIMITY TO LOT LINES, THE STATE WILL ALLOW UP TO 250 GALLONS OF HONEY, WHICH IS APPROXIMATELY THREE POU, 3000 POUNDS OF HONEY BE SOLD FROM RESIDENTS WITHOUT STATE INSPECTION. THAT'S FROM CODE OF VIRGINIA, SECTION 3.2. CHAPTER 44. WARREN COUNTY CAN REQUIRE MORE STRICT APPLIC OR STRICT CODES, BUT I BELIEVE THE STATE CODE IS SUFFICIENT FOR WARREN COUNTY. THE ADOPTION OF PROPOSED ORDINANCE WOULD BE A GREAT BURDEN TO LOCAL BEEKEEPERS AND WOULD REDUCE THE BENEFITS OF POLLINATORS IN OUR AREA. WE ARE MEMBERS OF THE BEEKEEPERS OF NORTHERN SHENANDOAH BONDS AS A BEE CLUB THAT HELPS EDUCATE PEOPLE ON APIS. MILLERFORD? YEP. I KNEW I'D MESS IT UP, BUT A, THE HONEYBEES COVERING WARREN, FREDERICK AND CLARK COUNTY AS WELL AS WINCHESTER BONDS HOLDS BEE CLASSES. AS DENISE MENTIONED, FOLLOWING STATE GUIDELINES IN THE SPRING. WE, WE TEACH OVER 60 TO BETWEEN 60 AND 80 STUDENTS ON THE PROPER, UH, METHOD OF TREAT OF RAISING BEES. THEY ALSO HAVE, UH, MONTHLY MEETINGS THAT ARE EDUCATIONAL IN, IN NATURE. SO WE TEACH EVERYBODY IN THERE AND WE HAVE A MENTOR PROGRAM AS WELL, SO THAT NEW STUDENTS CAN TIE INTO A MENTOR TO LEARN HOW TO TAKE CARE OF BEES. I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS EVENING, AND IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN GOING INTO A BEEHIVE, WE'D BE MORE THAN WELCOME TO ALLOW YOU TO. WE'VE GOT EXTRA SUITS AND ANYBODY INTERESTED, JUST GIVE US A CALL AND WE CAN HOOK YOU UP. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SIR. ALEXANDER, I'M NOT GOING TO TRY YOUR LAST NAME. . OKAY. YOU GOOD? ALL RIGHT, THEN THAT WOULD BE THE END OF THE LIST. OKAY. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE CARE TO SPEAK THAT DIDN'T SIGN UP? SEE NO ONE COME FORWARD. THE PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. YOU GOT CUT OFF. I GOT CUT OFF TOO. YEAH, . NO, NO, YOU'RE GOOD. MY, MY ONLY CONCERN IS, YOU KNOW, THE SAFETY OF NEIGHBORS WITH THE AMOUNT OF KIDS THAT WE'RE NOW GETTING, UH, HAVE ALLERGIES TO BE STINGS. UM, I DID GET STUNG ONCE THIS YEAR AND THERE'S NO NEST. [00:15:01] WELL, THERE'S PLENTY OF NEST THAT WE'VE TAKEN DOWN, BUT THERE'S NO, UH, NO ONE RAISING, MAKING HONEY. WAS IT WASP OR HONEYBEE? IT WAS A, THE HONEYBEE. OKAY. BIT ME IN THE BACK OF MY KNEE. UH, BUT ANYWAY, THAT'S, UH, YEAH, I'M NOT ALLERGIC, BUT I DID CARRY MY EPIPEN FOR TWO DAYS. SO THERE'S, THAT'S MY CONCERN, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE WHEN THEY DO SWARM, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE TRAVELING UP TO EIGHT MILES, WHAT? YOU GOT KIDS OUT THERE RUNNING AROUND? PUBLIC HEARING'S CLOSED, MA'AM? OH, WELL, SHOOT. WE GOT A BEEKEEPER HERE. . YEAH. WELL, I, I'VE DONE A GOOD BIT OF, UH, ACTUALLY I DID, I DIDN'T REALIZE I HAD SO MANY, UH, BEEKEEPERS IN MY DISTRICT AND I ACTUALLY REACHED OUT TO ONE AND, UH, WAS OVERWHELMED WITH A RESPONSE. AND, UH, A GOOD BIT OF NEEDED EDUCATION. 'CAUSE I REALLY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BEES. BUT, UH, I DO FIND THE, UH, REGULATION DEFINITELY BEING, UH, TOO RESTRICTIVE AFTER, UH, AFTER MY EDUCATION. OH, THE, UH, THE PART ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO SELL ANYTHING. THE, UH, YOU KNOW, IF I PUT OUT A GARDEN, YOU KNOW, SOME YEARS I GOT A LITTLE TEENY GARDEN SOME YEARS THAT'S LIKE, MAN, WHEN I PUT THAT OUT FOR, I DIDN'T GET ANYTHING HARDLY. AND THEN I'VE HAD YEARS WHERE I COULD GET A FIVE GALLON BUCKET OF SQUASH AND TOMATOES AND CUCUMBERS EVERY OTHER DAY. OH. AND FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO GIVE THAT AWAY, OR IF I WANTED TO GO TO THE LOCALS FARM MARKET OR THE LITTLE SIX 19 MARKET, I SEE GUYS UP OUR CELL GUARD PRODUCE. OH, I DON'T THINK IT HARDLY MAKES MY LITTLE GARDEN A COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE. AND OH, YOU KNOW, IF THEY, IF WE'VE GOT STATE REGULATIONS THAT SAY, HEY, IF YOU'RE OVER A CERTAIN AMOUNT AND YOU NEED COMMERCIAL KITCHEN, YOU NEED, YOU KNOW, KIND OF FDA REGULATION AND THE, AND IF THE STATE FEELS LIKE IF IT'S UNDER A CERTAIN LEVEL, YOU CAN DO THAT IN YOUR HOME KITCHEN. ALL, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO REGULATE THAT ALL. AND AFTER SEEING THE COSTING AND THE AMOUNT OF WORK, OH, I, I DON'T THINK ANY, OH, BACKYARD BEEKEEPER'S GOING TO GET RICH. OH, FROM THE LITTLE BIT OF HONEY. THEY MAY OR MAY NOT SELL. THE BIGGER, THE BIGGER MARKETING THING IS WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS IF, IF THE HOUSE DO WELL IS THE, UH, THE ABILITY TO SELL THE BEES ALL BECAUSE OF THEIR, UH, IMPORTANCE MM-HMM . TO, UH, POLLINATION AND THE, UH, IMPORTANCE, YOU KNOW, FOR OUR WELLBEING TOO, ALL. AND THEY'RE SOMEWHAT ENDANGERED AND PROTECTED AT THIS POINT. ALL IN THE STATE REGULATES HOW THEY'RE SOLD. YOU KNOW, AND I, I KNOW SOME OF THIS WAS PROBABLY COPIED FROM LIKE THE CHICKEN ORDINANCE AND I, AND I WOULD'VE COPIED IT WORD FOR WORD, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST ANOTHER ANIMAL TO ME. BUT AFTER UNDERSTANDING HOW THEY WORK A LITTLE BIT, OH, THEY HAVE TO SPLIT THESE HIVES TO KEEP 'EM. OR IF, IF THEY NATURALLY SPLIT, THEY TAKE OFF TO SOMEWHERE ELSE, SO NOBODY KNOWS WHERE THEY'RE GOING. THEY COULD END UP ON YOUR PORCH OR SOMETHING OR, OR WHEREVER. BUT, UH, I WAS AT A PROPERTY AND I MEAN, THE HIVES WOULD'VE FIT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IN THIS CORNER OR THIS ROOM. AND I ASKED HOW MANY HIVES WERE THERE. OF COURSE, I'M JUST LOOKING AT A BUNCH OF BOXES, YOU KNOW? 'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BEES. AND IT WAS INDICATED TO ME THAT IT WAS 22 HIVES THERE. AND IF YOU'D ASKED ME BEFORE THAT TO TAKE A GUESS, I'D HAVE SAID FIVE OR SIX. UH, SO OH, THE NUMBER SOUNDS LIKE A HUGE AMOUNT, BUT IT, IT'S SO MUCH DEPENDENT ON THE, THE SIZE OF THE HIVE. AND THEN THE, UH, AND THEN IF YOU, IF YOU LIMIT THEM TOO SMALL AND THEY, AND THEY'VE GOT EVEN, YOU KNOW, AT AT 12 AND, YOU KNOW, ON A TWO ACRE LOT AND SAY THEY HAD THE 12 AND THEN THEY HAVE TO DO THEIR SPLIT TO PRESERVE THE HIVES, YOU KNOW, IT'D BE LIKE HAVING A LITTER OF PUPPIES. MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, WE GOT A ORDINANCE THAT SAYS YOU ONLY HAVE SIX DOGS. WELL, IF YOUR DOG GETS AWAY, YOU KNOW, IT HAPPENS IN NATURE AND, UH, YOU HAVE A LITTER OF SIX PUPPIES OR NINE, OR YOU, OR HOWEVER MANY IT IS, YOU KNOW, YOU OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, HAVE GOTTA HAVE SOME TIME TO REHOME. AND THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S NO REGULATION THAT YOU COULDN'T SELL THOSE PUPPIES OR YOU COULD GIVE 'EM AWAY, BUT, OH, YOU JUST WOULDN'T, YOU WOULDN'T BE FORCED IN A REGULATION TO, YOU KNOW, DO WE GOTTA EUTHANIZE 'EM? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE AN ENDANGERED THING. YOU COULDN'T DO THAT. YOU WOULDN'T DO, YOU WOULDN'T DO A PUPPY THE SAME WAY EITHER. NOBODY WOULD. SO, OH, SO WHEN I READ THAT, I INTERPRETED AS THEY CAN'T SELL IT OUT OF THE HOUSE. I DIDN'T INTERPRET THAT, THAT THEY COULDN'T GO TO A FARMER'S MARKET. IT JUST SAYS, IT JUST SAYS NOT FOR SALE. IT'S NOT VERY CLEAR. THEY DIDN'T SAY, BUT I, I READ IT AS OUT OF THEIR HOUSE. I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T ENVISION IT THAT, YOU KNOW, IF A NEIGHBOR WANTS A JAR FOR TWO, FIVE BUCKS, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU GET IT. OR THEY TAKE IT TO A FARMER'S MARKET, YOU KNOW, WHO CARES? WELL, THE, THE ONLY, THE ONLY CONCERN, AND THEN IT WAS SO, AND THESE PARTICULAR, PARTICULAR PEOPLE, THE, THE, [00:20:01] THE FRONT, THE FRONT YARD THING DOES NOT WORK FOR THEM. IT'S, UH, THE, UH, OF COURSE WE'RE, WE HAD A LITTLE DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW SETBACK AND SEPTIC SETBACK AND, AND IT'S ONE OF THOSE LOTS WHERE THE, UH, NOTHING WRONG WITH THE LOCK GOT A NICE LAYOUT, BUT BECAUSE OF THE SEPTIC AND THE NEIGHBOR'S WELL, AND WHERE EVERYTHING HAD TO GO, THE HOUSE ENDED IN THE BACK AND THE ONLY YARD THAT GOT TO THE FRONT MM-HMM . OH. BUT THEY'RE GOOD STEWARDS. 'CAUSE THEY, AND, AND I THINK THIS MAY BE OUGHT, MAYBE SHOULD BE PUT IN THE CODE. OH, THEY PUT A FENCE AROUND IT. THEY PUT A SIGN ON IT. OH. AND THEN THEY'VE GOT A REASONABLE LITTLE SETBACK FROM THE NEIGHBOR IN THE WRECK. OH. YOU KNOW, A 30 FOOT OR WHATEVER IT IS. SO I DON'T CARE IF IT'S IN FRONT OR BACK OF THE HOUSE. I DON'T THINK IT'D BE FAIR TO PUT IT RIGHT AGAINST THE NEIGHBOR. SO HAVING A REASONABLE SETBACK. BUT IT JUST DID A SIMPLE AMERICAN WIRE FENCE. AND, UH, I LIKE THE IDEA OF THAT. 'CAUSE IF YOUR NEIGHBOR'S DOG GOT TO, IF YOUR DOG GOT TO CHASING THE SQUIRREL AND THE SQUIRREL RAN THROUGH THE HIVES AND THE DOG RUN THROUGH WITH THEM AND GOT TO BUMP IT INTO THOSE, HE WOULD BE POSED AS A THREAT. AND THEN IF A, UH, YOU KNOW, SMALL CHILD WAS PLAYING BALL OR DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WERE HIVES AND HE BUMPED INTO THE HIVES, HE WOULD BE POSED AS A THREAT BY. BUT JUST SIMPLY PUTTING A LITTLE PIECE OF FENCE, A LITTLE BIT OF STRUCTURE AROUND IT. I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, AFTER SEEING WHAT THEY DID, I THINK THAT MADE HIM A GOOD STEWARD. I FELT VERY COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT THEY DID, AND I FELT VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THEIR 22, UH, HIVES ON A TWO ACRE LOT. AND, UH, IF THEY EVER GET ENOUGH THAT THEY COULD SELL A FEW JARS AND, AND RECOUP SOME OF THEIR COSTS, I, I DON'T, UH, I DON'T, I EITHER, EITHER I WOULD PUT THIS BY RIGHT, OR I WOULD, I'M REALLY LEANING TOWARDS TABLE IT, BECAUSE I WAS A LITTLE, I SHOULD HAVE JUMPED ON THIS LIKE THE DAY AFTER THE LAST MEETING, AND I DIDN'T REALLY JUMP INTO THIS THING PRETTY GOOD TILL ABOUT A WEEK AGO. OH, IT'S A LOT MORE COMPLICATED THAN WHAT I THOUGHT IT WAS. OH, MM-HMM . I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, IN THE, OF COURSE THEY QUESTIONED ME, YOU KNOW, WHO WROTE THIS, YOU KNOW, I SAID, I DON'T THINK IT WAS ANYBODY'S INTENT TO BE OVER RESTRICTIVE. I THINK WE WERE JUST, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO COME UP WITH A SAFETY CAGE AND IT WAS PROBABLY COPIED FROM SOMETHING ELSE, BUT, OH, I'D BE INTERESTED IN TABLING IT TO GIMME SOME CHANCE TO DO SOME MORE RESEARCH OR PUT IT MORE AS A BUYRIGHT THING. BUT I HATE TO DO IT COMPLETELY BUYRIGHT, UH, WITHOUT ANY RESTRICTION. UH, EVEN THOUGH THE STATE'S GOT SOME, UH, YOU KNOW, A SAFETY FENCE AND A SIGN, UH, MAYBE SOME LIMIT, LIMIT ON HIVES, BUT, UH, I THINK THE LIMIT'S TOO LOW AFTER UNDERSTANDING, YOU GET A WORKING SYSTEM AND THEN YOU HAVE TO SPLIT 'EM AND YOU NEED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME, JUST LIKE THE PUPPIES YOU NEED TO, RIGHT? MM-HMM . THIS IS, THIS IS ALSO R ONE, SO IT'S NOT LIKE IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, A FARM OR 20 ACRES, WELL, THEY, THIS DOESN'T APPLY. YEAH. BUT THEY COULD HAVE A HUNDRED, IT'D BE IN THE AG, IT WOULDN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. YEAH. YEAH. OH. BUT, BUT AT A LIMIT OF 12 AND THEY GOT THEIR 12 AND THEN THE NEXT YEAR THEY'VE GOT A SPLIT. YEAH. 18. THEY GOTTA GET RID OF SIX. SO, YEAH. AND THEY, YOU KNOW, SO THAT I'D BE CAREFUL, YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW IN THE HECK YOU'D EVER REGULATED ANYWAY. 'CAUSE I WENT OUT THERE AND I WAS LOOKING AT 'EM, AND I COULDN'T HAVE TOLD YOU , HE SAID 22, HE COULD HAVE TOLD ME 30 OR FIVE, AND I'D BELIEVED HIM. YOU EVENTUALLY HAD A REAL BEAD KEEPER HERE. . YEAH. YEAH. I'D JUST ADD MY 2 CENTS IN LITTLE LINE TWO, AS A KID GROWING UP, I'VE, YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T IN THIS COUNTY, BUT WE LIVED ON LIKE, ABOUT 10 ACRES AND HAD LIKE FOUR HIVES. MY GRANDDAD WAS ON A HUNDRED ACRES AND HAD EIGHT HIVES. BEES ARE KIND OF LIKE PEOPLE. IF ESSENTIALLY, IF YOU DON'T MESS WITH THEM, THEY DON'T MESS WITH YOU. THEY, YOU DO HAVE AN OCCASIONAL ROGUE ONE, BUT MOSTLY THEY'RE THAT WAY. THE THING THERE TOO, ON THE SELLING OF HONEY, IF WE'RE GONNA SAY THAT SOMEONE HAS SOME HONEY AND CAN'T SELL IT, OR WE'RE SAYING THE GUY DOWN THE ROAD HAS CHICKENS, CAN'T SELL HIS EGGS, TO ME, THAT'S THE EXACT SAME THING. YES. MM-HMM . I, I, WELL, ON THE CHICKENS, I DON'T THINK YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE SELLING EGGS BASED ON THE BACKYARD CHICKEN ORDINANCE ANYWAY. BUT ANYHOW, BUT I WILL SAY, I, I SOUP, I, I THINK THE HONEY, I, I AGREE. I, I THINK THAT AT LEAST, UH, I'D LIKE TO SEE GO AWAY THE RESTRICTION ON THE SALE OF GOODS OR SERVICES. UM, I ALSO, IT SOUNDS LIKE PROBABLY THE LIMIT, UH, IS TOO LOW ON THE NUMBER OF HIVES. I I THINK THERE SHOULD BE A LIMIT, AND I THINK WE NEED TO DO SOME MORE THINKING ABOUT WHAT THAT LIMIT IS. UM, BUT AT, AT SOME POINT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THE, THE CHALLENGE OF YOU'VE GOT 20 HIVES AND NOW MAYBE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE 40. I MEAN, THAT IT, IT GROWS EXPONENTIALLY. SO I MEAN, THERE HAS TO BE A LIMIT SOMEWHERE. THAT'S [00:25:01] FAIR. YEAH. BUT YEAH, I, I THINK I WOULD ALSO BE IN FAVOR OF TABLING THIS FOR, FOR MORE THOUGHT, BUT HERE FROM OUR, OUR ACTUAL BEEKEEPER. YES. I'M BRIDGET, AND I SERVE WITH THE, UM, IN THE BENTONVILLE AREA. SO I'M, AND I'M FAMILIAR WITH BONDS, BEEN BEEKEEPING NOW FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS. AND WE HAVE GONE FROM ANYWHERE FROM THREE COLONIES BOXES UP TO 50. AND IT'S, IT'S A CHICKEN MATH, IT'S A B MATH. YOU, IT'S A VERY STRANGE THING, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE BEES OR YES, THEY WILL GO, UM, TRADITIONALLY WHEN THEY DO SWARM, JUST AS A RULE OF THUMB, THERE'S NOTHING TO PROTECT. SO THEY'RE NOT AGGRESSIVE. THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO GO. SO A ROAD BEE, VERY POSSIBLY. ABSOLUTELY. MM-HMM . UH, DURING DEARTH, THAT'S VERY POSSIBLE TO GET STUNG. UM, OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM IN OUR AREA, AND WE HAD 'EM UP ON THE MOUNTAIN AND WE HAVE 'EM OVER IN BENTONVILLE NOW. IT'S NOT CHILDREN, IT'S NOT DOGS, IT'S BEARS. SO OFFENSES A GOOD INVESTMENT IF YOU WANT TO KEEP BEES. UM, I DO AGREE ON MAYBE SOME KIND OF A RESIDENTIAL RESTRICTION OR AT LEAST, UM, AN AWARENESS THAT BEES ARE IN PLACE, BUT NOT SELLING THE WARES FROM THE BEES, THE WAX AND THE HONEY. I, I'M, I CAN'T SUPPORT THAT AT ALL. YEAH, I AGREE. NO, IT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, UM, IT'S A VERY EXPENSIVE HOBBY JUST TO START OFF. I MEAN, IT'S AN INITIAL INVESTMENT JUST FOR ONE COULD BE UP TO A THOUSAND DOLLARS, BUT IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU'RE GETTING. THERE'S ALL DIFFERENT KINDS. YEAH. UM, THE STATE IS SUPPORTING BEEKEEPING IN THE AVERAGE BACKYARD. THEY'RE GIVING AWAY HIVES. THEY'RE NOT GIVING AWAY BEES. YOU HAVE TO COME BY THE BEES, WHETHER THAT'S A PACKAGE OR YOU GO TO A LOCAL SOMEBODY AND YOU BUY A NUKE AND THAT'S AN INVESTMENT. AND A NUKE CAN, I'VE SEEN 'EM GO TO $250. YOU GET VERY HIGH QUALITY SPECIAL LABELED BEES VERSUS MINE, WHICH ARE SWARMS, THEY'RE MUTTS AND WE LOVE THEM. JUST THE SAME . UM, THIS IS TOO RESTRICTIVE IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, AND IT'S VERY DISCOURAGING. SO I WOULD LIKE TO REVIEW THIS, THE TABLE THIS FOR NOW, AND LET'S PULL OUT SOME OF THESE HARD RESTRICTIONS BECAUSE WE ARE TRYING TO SUPPORT POLLINATORS AND BEEKEEPING. AND THIS MAY, IT'S ALREADY HARD ENOUGH. YOU KNOW, WHEN AS BEEKEEPER, THE FIRST YEAR WE HAD THREE COLONIES. I DON'T KNOW. THEY ABSCONDED, THEY TOOK OFF, THEY SWARMED. WE DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. YOU, THERE'S NO CONVERSATION THAT TAKES PLACE. WELL, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, WHEN YOU LOSE, YOU KNOW, 200,000 BEES IN ONE WEEKEND, IT, IT HURTS, YOU KNOW, FINANCIALLY, IT'S DISAPPOINTING. WE DID GET HONEY, BUT YEAH, I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS TABLED AND REMOVE SOME OF THE HEAVY RESTRICTIONS OUT AND MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT LESS, IT MORE ENCOURAGING FOR A BEEKEEPER. THERE'S SUCCESSFUL BEEKEEPERS IN DC ALL IN THE ROOFTOP. SO I THINK THERE IS A MEANS THAT CAN WORK, BUT I JUST THINK THIS ONE IS A LITTLE BIT TOO RESTRICTED, IN MY OPINION. OKAY. ANYONE CARE TO MAKE A MOTION TO THAT EFFECT? UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT THE ZONING TEST, A TEXT AMENDMENT FOR BACKYARD BEEKEEPING BE TABLED UNTIL IF I MIGHT OFFER A SUGGESTION THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ON FOR PUBLIC HEARING THIS EVENING, BUT IF MAYBE WE BRING IT BACK AT NEXT MONTH'S MEETING, UM, FOR AUTHORIZATION TO ADVERTISE WITH SOME CHANGES. AND IF YOU LIKE THE CHANGES, THEN YOU CAN AUTHORIZE ADVERTISEMENT FOR A DECEMBER OR JANUARY PUBLIC HEARING. AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE 'EM, THEN WE CAN KEEP WORKING ON IT BASED ON YOUR FEEDBACK. YEAH, I WOULD GIVE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING TOO. THAT MIGHT BE A FAIR WAY TO DO IT. MM-HMM . YEAH, IT COULD BE READVERTISED. YES. WE, WE DON'T HAVE IT. WE DON'T HAVE A CUSTOMER HELD UP ON A TIMELINE OR ANYTHING AT ALL. UH, DO WE HAVE AN APPLICATION? WE DO. YES. THIS WAS APPLICANT DRIVEN. YEAH, WE DO HAVE AN APPLICATION. YEAH. BUT YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO GET, IT'S AN ORDINANCE. WE NEED TO GET RIGHT AND CORRECT. NOT READY BEFORE TONIGHT. WE'RE DEFINITELY NOT READY TONIGHT, BUT NO, AND WE'RE ENTERING TIME OF YEAR AND BEES WILL BE DORMANT, SO THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE PULLING HONEY FROM 'EM. OH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOING WE'RE THEY'RE ALREADY NEXT SEASON . THEY'RE DORMANT NOW. ALRIGHT. IS, IS THERE A CLOCK ON ON WHEN WE NEED TO PROVIDE A RESPONSE TO THE APPLICANT? 90. MY RECOLLECTION ON A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT IS THAT THE [00:30:01] PLANNING COMMISSION HAS, UH, A HUNDRED DAYS FROM THE FIRST MEETING AT WHICH THE MATTER WAS REPORTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WHICH WOULD'VE BEEN IN SEPTEMBER. MM-HMM . SO WE STILL HAVE 30, YOU KNOW, WE STILL HAVE ABOUT 70 DAYS LEFT FOR PLANNING COMMISSION ACTION. UH, THAT WOULD BE SUFFICIENT TIME FOR YOU GUYS TO, UM, HEAR IT IN NOVEMBER AND, UH, HOLD A DECEMBER PUBLIC HEARING AND WE CAN ALWAYS GET THE APPLICANT TO PROVIDE AN EXTENSION TO THAT. IF WE FEEL LIKE WE NEED A LITTLE MORE TIME TO GET IT RIGHT, WE CAN A, WE CAN REQUEST THAT. ALL RIGHT. SO WHAT DO WE DO WITH THE AMENDMENT? WELL, I, I, I MEAN, I GO, I CAN GO EITHER WAY. WE CAN, UH, IF WE WANNA DO ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING, WE CAN DO, WE CAN HAVE, WE CAN HAVE TWO MONTHS OR WE CAN NOT DO THE PUBLIC HEARING AND, AND JUST DO IT NEXT MONTH. BUT I, I'M FINE WITH PUTTING IT OFF IF IT DOESN'T. YEAH. FROM MY PER RUIN, SOME KIND OF APPLICATION FOR THAT PLAN, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THE CHANGES ARE BIG ENOUGH THAT WE, I I FEEL LIKE WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING. YEAH, I AGREE. I AGREE. THAT WHOLE THING BEING, IF WE VOTE TO DENY, THEN DOES IT GO FOR THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IN THIS CURRENT, HOW DO WE MAKE THE MOTION TO NOT SEND IT TO THE BOARD AND BRING IT BACK HERE FOR YEAH, MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE FOR THE, UM, MOVE TO TABLE THE ITEM UNTIL THE, UM, NEXT MEETING AND TO HAVE IT PLACED ON THE AGENDA FOR AUTHORIZATION TO ADVERTISE. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. GOOD ENOUGH. YEAH, WE, WE HAVE TO MAKE THE MOTION, BUT YEAH. YEAH. WHAT HE SAID. YEAH, WHAT HE SAID. MOVE TO TABLE THE TEXT AMENDMENT WITH AN AUTHORIZATION TO ADVERTISE AT NEXT MONTH'S MEETING. SECOND. STILL. SECOND. SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. A A OPPOSED? AYES HAVE IT. THANK YOU. NEXT ITEM TONIGHT, [VII.B. CUP2025-09-02 - Private Use Camping- 1020 Misty Meadow Lane - A request for a conditional use permit for private use camping. The property is located at 1020 Misty Meadow Lane and is identified on tax map 41A as lot 5. The property is zoned Residential-One (R-1) and is located in the Massanutten View subdivision in the South River Magisterial District. - Kelly Wahl , Planner] CUP 20 25 0 9 0 2. PRIVATE USE CAMPING. 10 20 MISTY METAL LANE. REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR PRIVATE USE. CAMPING PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 10 20 MISTY MEADOW LANE IDENTIFIED ON TAX MAP 41 A IS LOT FIVE PROPERTY OWNED RESIDENTIAL R ONE LOCATED IN THE MASSA NUTTON VIEW SUBDIVISION IN THE SOUTH RIVER MAGISTERIAL DISTRICT AS WELL. THAT'S RIGHT. IN JUST A MOMENT WE JUST EXCHANGING CONTACT. OKAY? SURE, SURE. I UNDERSTAND. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. OKAY. BACK TO PRIVATE USE CAMPING. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR PRIVATE USE CAMPING ON HIS LOT IN THE MASS NUTTON VIEW SUBDIVISION, WHICH IS LOCATED IN THE SPECIAL FLOOD HAZARD AREA. THE APPLICANT PURCHASED THE PROPERTY IN APRIL OF 1999 AND LIVES THERE AS A FULL-TIME RESIDENCE. IN ADDITION TO HIS HOME. THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO USE THE PROPERTY FOR INTERMITTENT CAMPING FOR HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY. THIS PROPERTY HAS NOT HAD ANY PREVIOUS CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS ISSUED FOR USES IN THE RESIDENTIAL ONE ZONING DISTRICT. THERE ARE NO ACTIVE ZONING VIOLATIONS ON FILE FOR THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. THERE IS CURRENTLY ONE OTHER ACTIVE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, UM, FOR PRIVATE USE CAMPING LOCATED ON MISTY MEADOW LANE. UH, IT'S APPROXIMATELY NINE PARCELS DOWN FROM MR. ELLIS'S PROPERTY. PRIVATE USE CAMPING NON-COMMERCIAL IS DEFINED BY THE WARREN COUNTY ZONING ORDINANCE AS NO MORE THAN TWO MAJOR RECREATIONAL VEHICLES USED FOR LIVING, SLEEPING, OR OTHER OCCUPANCY ON ANY LOT OR COMBINATION OF LOTS UNDER ONE OWNERSHIP. PROVIDED THAT SUCH USE IS LIMITED TO THE OWNER, FAMILY MEMBERS OR GUESTS AND NO FEE IS CHARGED FOR CAMPING. UM, STAFF DID RECEIVE AN ANONYMOUS COMPLAINT, WHICH HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO YOU IN YOUR AGENDA. PACKET, UH, PLANNING STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS BE ADDED TO THIS CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION CHOOSES TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THIS PERMIT TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. NUMBER ONE, THE APPLICANT SHALL COMPLY WITH ALL WARREN COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT REGULATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS. MATERIALS ASSOCIATED WITH THE CAMPERS ARE TO BE STORED IN A NEAT AND ORDERLY FASHION DURING THE TIME OF USE AND ARE TO BE REMOVED FROM THE SITE. WHEN NOT IN USE. ANY DEVELOPMENT STRUCTURE OR FENCING WITHIN THE SPECIAL FLOOD HAZARD AREA SHALL REQUIRE A BUILDING AND ZONING PERMIT. AND NUMBER FOUR, THE APPLICANT SHALL POST THE PROPERTY WITH A LOT PARCEL NUMBER FOR FIRE AND RESCUE AND EMERGENCY RESCUE SERVICES AND HAVE AN EMERGENCY EGRESS PLAN FOR REMOVAL OF THE RECREATIONAL VEHICLES AND PORTABLE COMMODE PRIOR TO A PREDICTED FLOOD EVENT. THIS PUBLIC HEARING [00:35:01] HAS BEEN PROPERLY ADVERTISED ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS NOTIFIED AND I DO NOT BELIEVE THE APPLICANT, THE APPLICANT IS HERE THIS EVENING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR US, THANK YOU. ANYTHING YOU CARE TO ADD TO THE STAFF COMMENTS, SIR? MY WIFE AND HERE, UH, AND I ARE HERE. I'M JOHN ELLIS. HER NAME IS NIKKI. WE ACTUALLY LIVE IN ALDI, VIRGINIA. WE DO NOT RESIDE AT THAT PROPERTY. WE'VE HAD IT FOR 26 YEARS. OKAY. OKAY. COULD YOU GIVE THE STREET ADDRESS ALSO FOR THE RECORDS? YEAH. UH, AT MY CURRENT ADDRESS? YEAH. IN ALDI? YEAH. 2 1 7 2 3 ALDI, VIRGINIA 2 0 1 0 5. I SAID OPEN ZERO DIDN'T I? 2 7 2 3 OPEN ZERO, SORRY. OKAY, SO I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT WE, WE DO NOT LIVE THERE IF THAT WAS INCORRECT AND WE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY IN 8 19 89. 19 9 9. SORRY ABOUT THAT. I APOLOGIZE. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU SIR. THANK, WITH THAT PUBLIC HEARING IS NOW OPEN, HE WANTED TO SIGN UP TO SPEAK, JUST MAKING SURE MS. ELLIS YOU DID, DID YOU WISH TO SPEAK? SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY FENCES. OH, WE NEED, WE NEED YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS TOO. IT'S LEGAL EASE. I'M SORRY. 1 7 2 3 OLANDS ROAD, ALDI, VIRGINIA. UM, WE DON'T HAVE ANY FENCES IN THE FLOODPLAIN. WE, UM, DO HAVE THE HOUSE NUMBER MARKED ON THE STREET FOR FIRE. UH, WE HAVE, UH, ADDRESSED THE COMPLAINT ABOUT NEATNESS AROUND THE AREA AND THE, UM, ONE TRAILER THAT HAS BEEN PARKED THERE IS ROAD READY AND MOVABLE AT ANY TIME. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ANYONE ELSE SIGN UP? ANYONE CARE TO SPEAK? PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. LOOKS IN ORDER TO ME. IT LOOKS IN ORDER TO ME TOO. YEAH. TAKE A MOTION PLEASE ME. THE PLAN COMMISSION FORWARD THIS APPLICATION TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS FOR THE RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. REQUEST FOR PRIVATE USE CAMPING. 10 20 MISTY MEADOW LANE WITH THE CONDITIONS AS RECOMMENDED BY PLANNING COMMISSION AND STAFF. ALL SECOND. OKAY. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? AYES HAVE IT BE FORWARDED ON THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS APPROXIMATELY A MONTH. THANK YOU. PARDON ME. OUR THIRD [VII.C. CUP2025-09-03 - Short-term Tourist Rental - 138 Wooded Lane - A request for a conditional use permit for a short-term tourist rental. The property is located at 138 Wooded Lane and is identified on tax map 22J, section 2, block 2, as lot G. The property is zoned Agricultural (A) and is located in the Morgan's Ridge Subdivision in the Happy Creek Magisterial District. - Kelly Wahl , Planner] PUBLIC HEARING, CUP 20 25 0 9 0 3. SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTAL 1 38 WOODED LANE. REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTAL PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 1 38 WOODED LANE AS IDENTIFIED ON TAX MAP 22 J SECTION TWO, BLOCK TWO AS LOT G PROPERTY ZONED AGRICULTURAL LOCATED IN THE MORGANS RIDGE SUBDIVISION. HAPPY CREEK MAGISTERIAL DISTRICT KELLY. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTAL FOR THE PROPERTY THAT WAS CONSTRUCTED IN 2024. THE APPLICANT WISHES TO ESTABLISH A SHORT-TERM TOURIST RENTAL CONSISTENT WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND WILL MANAGE THE PROPERTY IN A WAY THAT PRESERVES THE CHARACTER OF THEIR HOME AND THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD. THE APPLICANT IS IN THE PROCESS OF CONDUCTING INTERVIEWS WITH LOCAL PROPERTY MANAGERS BUT NOT HAS, HAS NOT ACQUIRED ONE AS OF YET. THE DWELLING WAS CONSTRUCTED AND COMPLETED IN 2024. THERE IS CURRENTLY ONE ACTIVE ZONING VIOLATION ISSUED FOR THE PROPERTY FOR ADVERTISING AND OPERATING A SHORT-TERM TAURUS RENTAL WITHOUT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. THE CURRENT APPLICANT WAS UNAWARE OF THE REQUIRED PERMIT AND APPLIED FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. SHORTLY AFTER RECEIVING THEIR NOTICE OF VIOLATION. THERE'S A HEALTH DEPARTMENT OPERATION PERMIT APPROVING A MAXIMUM OF 10 OCCUPANTS FOR THE FIVE BEDROOM DWELLING. THE APPLICANT, AS I SAID PREVIOUSLY, IS CURRENTLY IN THE PROCESS OF INTERVIEWING LOCAL PROPERTY MANAGERS. THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED WITHIN A SUBDIVISION THAT IS NOT GOVERNED BY AN HOA OR A POA. THE DWELLING MEETS THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT TO ADJACENT SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS. THE CLOSEST BEING 480 FEET, 83 FEET TO THE WEST. PLANNING STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS BE PLACED ON THIS CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. SHOULD THE PLANNING COMMISSION CHOOSE TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. NUMBER ONE, THE APPLICANT SHALL COMPLY WITH ALL WARREN COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT, WARREN COUNTY BUILDING INSPECTIONS AND VIRGINIA STATE FIRE, UH, FIRE PREVENTION CODE REGULATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS. THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF OCCUPANTS SHALL NOT EXCEED THE SYSTEM CAPACITY AS DETERMINED BY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT PERMIT PER WARREN COUNTY CODE 180 DASH 56.4 B. THE CERTIFICATE OF ZONING SHALL ONLY BE ISSUED WITH APPROVED HEALTH DEPARTMENT RECORDS. NUMBER THREE, THE APPLICANT SHALL HAVE THE WELL WATER TESTED ANNUALLY FOR ECOLINE COLIFORM BACTERIA AND A COPY OF THOSE RESULTS ARE TO BE PROVIDED TO THE PLANNING AND HEALTH DEPARTMENT. AND NUMBER FOUR, THE APPLICANT SHALL HAVE THE SEPTIC SYSTEM MAINTAINED MANUAL ANNUALLY BY A LICENSED OPERATOR AS REQUIRED FOR AN ALTERNATIVE ONSITE SEWAGE DISPOSAL SYSTEM. THE APPLICANT SHALL ALSO HAVE THE SEPTIC SYSTEM PUMPED EVERY FIVE YEARS AS RECOMMENDED [00:40:01] BY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT. A COPY OF THE SERVICE INVOICE IS TO BE PROVIDED TO PLANNING DEPARTMENT. THIS PUBLIC HEARING HAS BEEN PROPERLY ADVERTISED ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS NOTIFIED THE APPLICANT COULD NOT BE HERE WITH US THIS EVENING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME. OKAY, THANK YOU. ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY. NO PUBLIC HEARING IS NOW OPEN. ANYONE SIGN UP CAROLINE TO MEXICO? YEAH. , IT'S SO MANY PEOPLE. TRY AND MAKE IT MORE SO I ANSWER JUST ABOUT ANYTHING. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS CAROLINE FROM MEXICO. I LIVE AT TWO 70 WOOD LANE. THE PROPERTY THAT IS ABUTS TO THE, UM, ONE FOR ASKING FOR THE SHORT TERM RENTAL. I HOLD HERE IN MY HANDS THE RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS OF THE MORTGAGE RIDGE ASSOCIATION. THAT WHEN THE SUBDIVISION WAS PUT IN AND IN THE COVENANTS, IT CAN CLEARLY SAYS NO COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES MAY BE MAINTAINED IN SAID SUBDIVISION. AND WE WANTED THAT BECAUSE WE ARE A FAMILY ORIENTED SUBDIVISION. AND AS MOST OF YOU, I'M SURE KNOW, SHORT TERM RENTALS, I MEAN, THEY'RE GREAT FOR SOME THINGS, BUT THEY'RE ALSO HORRIBLE FOR OTHER THINGS. THEY'RE TERRIBLE FOR THE LOCAL HOUSING SUPPLY WITH LONG-TERM RENTERS AND BRI UM, BUYERS DRIVING UP RENTS AND PRICES FOR LOCALS. THEY TRANSFORM RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS INTO TRANSIENT TOURIST ZONES LEADING TO NOISE DISTURBANCES, TRASH ISSUES, AND INCREASED TRAFFIC. JUST WHEN THEY BUILT THAT HOUSE, ALL THE TRUCKS AND TRASH THAT WE HAVE PICKED UP ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD FROM JUST THE BUILDING, WHICH IS NOT THE OWNER'S FAULT, THAT'S THE BUILDER'S FAULT. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT WAS IMMENSE. NOT TO MENTION ALL OF THE, I GUESS ON THE TIRES, THE, UM, WE USED TO HAVE A LOT OF FERNS AND THE NATURAL FERNS AND THE NATURAL, UH, OH. IT'S MY FAVORITE FLOWER, HONEY. WE GO LOOK AT IT EVERY YEAR. WHAT'S IT CALLED? MOUNTAIN LAUREL. WELL, THEY BROUGHT IN SEEDS ON THEIR TRUCK THINGS AND NOW WE HAVE ALL THIS CHINESE STUFF THAT'S GROWING UP AND KILLING OUT ALL OF THAT. TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, MY MAIN FEARS ARE AS I LIVE, OUR PROPERTIES LITERALLY ARE SIDE BY SIDE. THIS IS A 10 BEDROOM HOUSE. IF THEY RENT THIS OUT IN HUNTING SEASON, DOES THAT MEAN THESE PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE HUNTING UP THERE NEAR ME? YOU'RE SAYING NO, THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE. OKAY. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE. ALSO, IT'S ONE OF OUR, IT'S ONE OF OUR RESTRICTIONS. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND THE OTHER THING IS LARGE PARTIES AND STUFF. I MEAN, I LIVE IN THE MIDDLE OF 40 ACRES FOR A REASON. IT'S NOT THAT I DON'T LIKE PEOPLE, BUT I DO LIKE MY PEACE AND PRIVACY . UM, I'M WORRIED ABOUT ROAD MAINTENANCE AND HOW BAD THIS IS A GRAVEL ROAD THAT GOES UP THERE AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE RUNNING UP AND DOWN THAT MORE OFTEN WITH. SO THOSE ARE MOSTLY MY CONCERNS ABOUT THE SHORT TERM, UH, RENTAL. THERE. I AM VERY MUCH AGAINST IT FOR OBVIOUS REASONS. UM, I KNOW ALL MY NEIGHBORS, WE ALL TALK, YOU KNOW, AND STUFF. I JUST, I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF THE TRANSIENT, UH, TOURIST PART OF IT IS WHAT I GUESS MY BIGGEST COMPLAINT IS ON THIS. SO I WOULD ASK THAT YOU WOULD VOTE NO ON THIS. UM, AND JUST LET A FAMILY MOVE IN SO WE CAN HAVE MORE FAMILIES IN WARREN COUNTY THAT WE NEED AND WE CAN ALL BE HAPPY TOGETHER. . AND THAT IS EVERYTHING. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, DID Y'ALL NEED TO SEE THIS EVIDENCE? NO, SORRY. DAVID YORK. IT'S IN HERE. YEAH, WE CAN'T AFFORD SOME COPY THAT. ANYWAY, SO GOOD EVENING. I'M DAVID YORKS LIVE AT SIX WILLETT LANE IN MORTGAGE, RED SUBDIVISION. I BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY IN 92, BUILT THE HOUSE IN 93, ME AND MY LATE WIFE FOR PRIVACY. AND WE DO NOT NEED ALL THIS TRAFFIC COMING IN AND OUT. THEY'RE ALREADY DRIVING UP TO MY DRIVEWAY AND LOOKING AROUND AND IT, I'M TOTALLY AGAINST THIS 100% AND I'M SURE MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE SUBDIVISION ARE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU RON TO MEXICO. MR. CHAIRMAN, I'M RON TO MEXICO AT TWO 70 WOODAGE LANE, UH, THERE IN MORGANS RIDGE SUBDIVISION. YOU ALREADY HEARD FROM MY WIFE CAROLINE. UM, SO I JUST WANT TO ECHO WHAT SHE SAID AND THEN JUST REINFORCE WHAT DAVID JUST MENTIONED. THAT ABOUT, UH, ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC THAT WE EXPECT TO SEE WITH A SHORT TERM RENTAL AND REALLY NO CONTROL OVER WHO GOES INTO THAT PROPERTY. IT'S A FIVE BEDROOM HOUSE. YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO'S COMING IN, WHAT KIND OF PARTIES THEY MIGHT BE HAVING, UM, JUST WITH GROUPS COMING IN, MAYBE JUST NOT INDIVIDUAL FAMILY MEMBERS. SO PLEASE TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. UH, I OBJECT TO THE IDEA AS WELL. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU, SIR. DAVID BOWLES, [00:45:08] UH, PLANNING COMMISSION. I'VE OWNED MY GIRLFRIEND AND I HAVE OWNED, UM, I NEED YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, SIR. 2 7 1 WOODY LANE. DAVID BOWLES. THANK YOU. I'M ALSO AS AN AGENT FOR CONNIE CHRISTOPHER. WE OWNED THE PROPERTY. WE'VE BEEN THERE FOR 19 YEARS. AND WHEN I FIRST WENT TO BUY THAT PLACE AND EVERY OTHER PROPERTY OWNER, WE READ THE COVENANT. I READ THE COVENANT, I LIKED IT. I READ FRONT BACK, BACK TO FRONT. PARAGRAPH ONE SAYS NO COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES. IT MEANS YOU'RE GONNA BE TAKING PRIDE OF YOUR HOUSE WHERE YOU LIVE. YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE PEOPLE COMING AND GOING THAT DON'T HAVE A TIE TO THE PLACE. I HAVE PICKED UP AS CAROLYN SAYS. TON OF TRASH PEOPLE THROWING IT OUT, COMING OUTTA THERE, FLYING UP AND DOWN THE ROAD. WE HAVE A GRAVEL ROAD. IT IS NOT PAVED. WE DON'T WANT IT PAVED. UM, IT'S A VERY LARGE HOUSE, IN MY OPINION, OUT A PLACE. IT'S A $2 MILLION. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE THINKING. UH, FIVE BEDROOMS, UH, SEVEN AND A HALF BATHS. IT'S NOT, IT WAS BOUGHT AS A RESALE PLACE. IT WASN'T BOUGHT FOR THEM TO LIVE. ALL MY NEIGHBORS HERE, WE'VE BEEN THERE FOR DECADES. THIS PLACE IS TRYING. IT'S UNSOLD. IT'S BEEN ON THE MARKET NUMEROUS TIMES FOR MORE THAN 30 DAYS, AND THEY'RE TRYING TO GET TOURIST MONEY COMING IN. THERE ARE NUMEROUS HOTELS, MOTELS IN FARM ROYAL, WE DON'T NEED THEM IN MORGAN RIDGE SUBDIVISION. THIS COVENANT WAS FILED AT THE CLERK OF THE COURT BY INC. QUARRY. IT WAS MADE FOR PEOPLE TO RAISE THEIR FAMILIES. I PLAN ON LIVING THERE UNTIL I DIE. I'M NEVER GONNA SELL IT. I LOVE IT UP THERE, BUT I DON'T WANT TOURISTS COMING IN THERE. I'VE ALREADY CAUGHT NUMEROUS PEOPLE. I HAVE TO CLOSE MY GATE. I'M SITTING IN THE HOUSE, MY TRUCK'S DOWN THE HOUSE. I GOT PEOPLE DRIVING DOWN THERE AND THEY'RE LOOKING IN MY CARPORT. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO HAVE AN ALTERCATION WITH SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY, OH, WE'RE JUST LOOKING AROUND. THAT'S ALL I GOTTA SAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THAT IS THE END OF THE LESSON. ANYONE ELSE CARE TO SPEAK? NO ONE ELSE GOT NOTIFICATION. I'M TALKING TO THIS CROWD. OKAY. PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. UM, A FEW PROBLEMS HERE. TWO THAT YOU GUYS PROBABLY WON'T, LIKE WE CANNOT ENFORCE YOUR COVENANTS. THAT'S UP TO YOU AND NO MA'AM. PUBLIC HEARINGS CLOSED. AND AS FAR AS COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES GOES, THE VIRGINIA GENERAL ASSEMBLY SAYS THAT A SHORT TERM TER RENTAL IS NOT A COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY. AND IT'S A THING. AND AS FAR AS TRAFFIC, IF HE CANNOT RENT IT OUT AS A SHORT TERM, IT'D PROBABLY BE A LONG TERM. YOU'D HAVE PEOPLE RUNNING UP AND DOWN THAT ROAD EVERY DAY RATHER THAN JUST WEEKENDS. SO YOU'LL END UP WITH MORE TRAFFIC WITH A LONG TERM RENTER AND YOU OWE THE SHORT TERM PEOPLE HAVE TO GO TO WORK, KIDS, YOU KNOW, GO TO SCHOOL AND EVERYTHING. YOU DON'T HAVE THAT DURING THE WEEK. AND I SEE YOUR POINT, BUT I MEAN, THESE ARE, YOU KNOW, LEGAL THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT TOO HERE. SO THAT'S MY COMMENTS. OH, YEAH, THE COVENANTS. I, I KNOW THAT'S A, A TOUCHY SUBJECT, UH, FOR EVERYBODY. UH, THE AGREEMENT'S BASICALLY SIGNED BETWEEN THE DEVELOPER AND THE PURCHASERS, BUT IT WAS NOTHING SIGNED WITH THE COUNTY OR THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT. SO WE HAVE NO LEGAL RECOURSE FOR COVENANTS ALL. AND THEN THE, UH, AND AS FAR AS DECLARING IT AS COMMERCIAL USE, IT, IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED LEGALLY THAT WE ALSO CAN'T USE THAT. THE, UH, AND THEY DO, YOU KNOW, STATISTICALLY THEY GENERATE LESS TRAFFIC AND IT'S SOME TAX PLUSES FOR THE COUNTY. OH, THE CONCERN THAT I GOT THAT, THAT I'M HEARING, AND, UH, IF WE APPROVE THIS, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO, UH, WE'VE DONE, WE'VE HAD THIS, UH, OTHER PEOPLE WHERE THEY COULDN'T FIND A PROPERTY AND THEY ENDED UP IN THE WRONG DRIVEWAYS AND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND I, AND I DON'T LIKE THAT. UH UH, IF, OH, I WONDER IF THEY'RE LOST OR THEY'RE JUST NOSY. UH UH, BUT TYPICALLY THE PROPERTY LINES HAVE TO BE, UH, MARKED. NO OPEN AIR FIRES, NO FIREARMS DISCHARGE, NO ATVS. YOU KNOW, OWNERS CAN DO ALL THOSE THINGS, BUT NOT, NOT SHORT TERM RENTERS. WE, WE, WE CAN RESTRICT THOSE ALL. HAVE WE GOT ANY, IS THIS ONE, I DIDN'T [00:50:01] GO BY THIS ONE. IS THIS ONE ADDRESS GOOD? OR, OR CAN WE DO SOMETHING TO, UH, MAKE SURE THAT IT'S LOCATABLE WITHOUT, UH, PEOPLE BEING IN THE WRONG DRIVEWAY? WE CAN GO OUT THERE AND LOOK. UM, I'M NOT SURE IF THEY HAVE AN IDENTIFICATION SIGN. UH, IF THE ADDRESS IS OUT, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR EMERGENCY SERVICES WITH THE, WE CAN, WE CAN DEFINITELY CONDUCT A SITE VISIT AND PRIOR TO ISSUING THE CERTIFICATE OF ZONING, ENSURE THAT THERE'S PROPER ADDRESS SIGNAGE. OH. IN, IN THEIR MANAGEMENT PLAN, DO THEY, UH, ARE, ARE THEY HAVEN'T PICKED A MANAGEMENT, IS THIS THE ONE THAT YOU SAID THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE PICKED A MANAGEMENT PLAN YET? NO, THEY HAVE BEEN INTERVIEWING, UH, TO FIND A LOCAL PROPERTY MANAGER. THEY, THEY'RE HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF A, A DIFFICULT TIME FINDING ONE. UM, BUT I KNOW THAT THEY ARE ACTIVELY SEEKING ONE. WE'VE EVEN REACHED OUT TO, UM, OTHER PROPERTY MANAGERS AROUND THE AREA THAT DO QUITE A FEW OF THE OTHER SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTALS FOR ADVICE. UM, IF WE COULD SHARE THEIR PHONE NUMBERS, WE'VE CONNECTED HER, UH, THE APPLICANT WITH, WITH ANOTHER PROPERTY MANAGER THAT'S HELPING HER AS WELL. IF THIS IS APPROVED, I'D LIKE FOR THEM TO HAVE THEIR PROPERTY MANAGER SIGNED UP AND READY TO GO BEFORE IT GOES TO THE BOARD. CORRECT. IT IS ACTUALLY TECHNICALLY A REQUIREMENT. MM-HMM . UM, BUT YEP. OH, WELL, THE OTHER THING TO THE, THE COMMUNITY, IF THERE IS NOISE PAST THE NINE O'CLOCK WHENEVER THE, THE NOISE ORDINANCE IS FOR THE COUNTY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU NEED TO BRING TO THE ATTENTION TO THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT BECAUSE THIS IS A, UH, CUP. SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE REVIEWED AND WITHDRAWN. SO IF THEY HAVE RESIDENTS THAT ARE, OR GUESTS THAT ARE MAKING TOO MUCH NOISE, UH, THROWING TRASH, YOU KNOW, SHOOTING OFF, TRYING TO HUNT ON THE PROPERTY, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT YOU KNOW OF, MAKE SURE YOU CALL THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT. BUT ALSO MONDAY MORNING, GET AHOLD OF THE COUNTY, UH, PLANNING, UH, DEPARTMENT SO THEY KNOW AS WELL, JUST IN CASE THE SHERIFF DEPARTMENT DOESN'T ALWAYS COMMUNICATE WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT SO THAT THEY CAN BE, THAT PERMIT CAN BE REVOKED. YEAH. AND THE THING THERE OF LIKE, WE DON'T ALLOW ATVS, OUTDOOR FIRES, FIREARMS, AND THIS TYPE THING. WE CAN'T PUT THOSE RESTRICTIONS ON A LONG-TERM RENTER, UM, COMMENT FOR STAFF, UH, UNDER THEIR PROPOSED USE OF PROPERTY AND THEIR PROPERTY MANAGEMENT PLAN, THEY LIST THINGS LIKE INTIMATE WEDDINGS IN RECEPTIONS, UH, DIFFERENT WORKSHOPS, UM, EVENTS. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THOSE ARE NOT ALLOWED AT A SHORT TERM RENTAL. IS THAT CORRECT? I MEAN, YOU CAN'T, CORRECT. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. SO I THINK THEY WERE MORE, MORE SO APPROACHING A TARGET AUDIENCE THAT WOULD, THEY COULD SERVE GUESTS. UM, ALL RIGHT, WELL, THAT OVERNIGHT SPACES FOR SUCH EVENTS, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT HOW THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT PLAN READS. SO I, I WOULD JUST HAVE THE APPLICANT, UM, REVISIT THAT AND, UH, THAT, THAT SECTION DEFINITELY NEEDS TO BE REWORKED. IT'S NOT IN THE EVENT CENTER. YEAH, CORRECT. SHOULD, UH, BECAUSE OF THE HAVING, WE KIND OF CHANGED OUR MIND THAT THAT PROPERTY, UH, MANAGEMENT PLAN HAS TO BE IN PLACE TO MAKE A FAIR DECISION WITHOUT THE PROPERTY PLAN. SHOULD WE, SHOULD WE TABLE THIS UNTIL WE ACTUALLY SEE A PROPERTY MANAGEMENT PLAN? YEAH, I, I THINK SO. UNTIL THE PLAN IS REVISED AND THEY HAVE A MANAGER, RIGHT. SIGNED UP. YES. YEAH, BECAUSE I, I, I MAY WANT 'EM, IF, IF, IF WE WERE TO APPROVE IT, I WOULD DEFINITELY WANT 'EM TO ADDRESS CONCERNS ABOUT CARS BEING IN THE WRONG DRIVEWAYS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN THE PLAN, UH MM-HMM . AND WITHOUT A PLAN, I, IT IS HARD TO MAKE A GOOD EVALUATION ON WHAT THEIR INTENT IS. TOTALLY AGREE. YES. YEP. IF THERE'S NOT ANYTHING ELSE, YOU WORDSMITH WILL ATTEMPT IT. SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT WE TABLE, UH, 1 3 8 WOODED LANE UNTIL THERE'S A REVIEWED MANAGEMENT PLAN IN PLACE AND MANAGE MANAGER AS WELL. SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? AYES HAVE IT. THIS ONE IS TABLED. JUST AS A POINT OF CLARIFICATION, I DO NOT ON THIS ITEM BELIEVE THAT WE NEED AN ADDITIONAL PUBLIC HEARING. NO, SIR. SO WE'D BE BRINGING THAT BACK TO YOU, CORRECT. JUST AS A STATUS UPDATE, RIGHT? YEAH. BE COMING BACK FOR COMMENTS ONLY. YEAH. I MEAN, IF THEY ABSOLUTELY CAN'T GET A PROPERTY MANAGER, I MEAN, THAT WOULD DISQUALIFY 'EM YEP. AT THAT POINT ANYWAY, SO RIGHT. IT'LL COME BACK BEFORE YOU AS AN ACTION ITEM, BUT NOT A NEW PUBLIC [00:55:01] HEARING. RIGHT. OKAY. AND THAT SHOULD BE A RED FLAG TOO. YES. IT SHOULD. WELL, COULD BE. YOU CAN'T FIND A MANAGER. NEXT. NEXT [VII.D. Z2025-09-02 - Subdivision Text Amendments for Family Subdivision Variances - An ordinance to amend Chapter 155 of the Warren County Code (Subdivision Ordinance) to amend the definition of subdivision to add a provision to relax specific criteria of substantial injustice or hardship for family subdivision variances. - Chase Lenz, Zoning Administrator] ITEM. YES. Z 20 25 0 9 0 2 SUBDIVISION TEXT AMENDMENT FOR FAMILY SUBDIVISION VARIANCES. AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER 1 55 OF THE WARREN COUNTY CODE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE TO APPROVE THE DEFINITION OF SUBDIVISION TO ADD PROVISIONS TO RELAX SPECIFIC CRITERIA FOR SUBSTANTIAL INJUSTICE, FOR HARDSHIP, FOR FAMILY SUBDIVISION VARIANCES, KELLY? OKAY. UH, BEFORE YOU TONIGHT IS A DRAFT ORDINANCE PROPOSING TO AMEND SUBSECTION 1 55 DASH THREE B OF THE WARREN COUNTY CODE TO ADD A PROVISION THAT WILL RELAX THE CRITERIA LISTED IN SUBSECTION 1 55 DASH 18 B ONE TWO AND FIVE THAT OUTLINES SUBSTANTIAL INJUSTICE OR HARDSHIP OR REQUEST FOR SUBDIVISION VARIANCES FROM THE FAMILY SUBDIVISION REQUIREMENT. THIS AMENDMENT WOULD ALLOW THE SUBDIVISION ADMINISTRATOR TO GRANT VARIANCES BASED ON HARDSHIPS THAT ARE PERSONAL IN NATURE. THE PROPOSED PROVISION STATES UPON THE GRANTING OF A VARIANCE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS OF SUBSECTION 1 55 DASH 18 OF THIS CHAPTER. PROVIDED HOWEVER, THAT SUBSECTION 1 55 DASH 18 B ONE TWO AND FIVE NEED NOT BE SHOWN AND PROVIDED FURTHER, THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER REQUESTING THE VARIANCE PRODUCES PROOF THAT BECAUSE OF THE PARTICULAR CONDITIONS PERTAINING TO THE PROPERTY OWNER, WHICH CONDITIONS HAVE ARISEN SINCE THE PROPERTY OWNER REQUIRED THE PROPERTY TO BE CONVEYED, A PARTICULAR HARDSHIP TO THE OWNER WOULD RESULT AS DIS DISTINGUISHED FROM A, EXCUSE ME, A MERE INCONVENIENCE. THIS AMENDMENT FOLLOWS THE ADOPTION OF A FULL SET OF AMENDMENTS TO CHAPTER 1 55 OF THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE EARLIER THIS YEAR, NECESSITATED BY RECENT CHANGES TO THE CODE OF VIRGINIA, WHICH ELIMINATED PLANNING COMMISSIONS AND BOARDS OF SUPERVISORS AS THE APPROVING AUTHORITIES FOR SUBDIVISION PLATS, INCLUDING VARIANCES. HISTORICALLY, THESE TYPES OF VARIANCES WERE GRANTED BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AFTER RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR PERSONAL OR FAMILY REASONS. TYPICALLY WITH THE CONDITION THAT ANY UNFULFILLED PORTION OF THE FIVE YEAR OWNERSHIP PERIOD TO BE ADDED TO THE FIVE YEAR RESTRICTION BEFORE A PARCEL CAN BE TRANSFERRED OUTSIDE OF THE FAMILY. THE ORDINANCE DOES NOT CURRENTLY REFLECT THAT LONGSTANDING PRACTICE. AND NOW THAT THE ORDINANCE HAS CHANGED, PLANNING STAFF IS SEEKING GUIDANCE, THIS AMENDMENT WOULD RESTORE CONSISTENCY WITH THAT HISTORIC INTENT AND ALLOW THE SUBDIVISION ADMINISTRATOR TO CONTINUE GRANTING THESE LIMITED VARIANCES WHILE MAINTAINING SAFEGUARDS. THIS CHANGE WOULD ALIGN ADMINISTRATIVE AUTHORITY WITH PAST FORWARD PRACTICES, PROVIDES A FAIR MECHANISM FOR GENUINE FAMILY HARDSHIP CASES, AND KEEPS PROTECTIONS IN PLACE TO PREVENT MISUSE OF PREMATURE PARCEL TRANSFERS. THANK YOU. LOTS OF WORDS. . IT MADE ME TIRED. OKAY. WITH THAT PUBLIC HEARING IS NOW OPEN. ANYONE CARE TO SPEAK ROLAND BARR? IT'S GETTING READY TO CLOSE TONIGHT. I'M ROLAND BARR, 4 88 CDO HEIGHTS ROAD. UM, BOUGHT THE PROPERTY, UH, TWO YEARS AGO NEXT MONTH. UM, AND I HAVE, WHAT I HAVE COME TO UNDERSTAND IS A PERSONAL HARDSHIP AND NOT A PHYSICAL HARDSHIP REQUEST FOR VARIANCE. UM, WHICH HISTORICALLY THE BOARD HAS BEEN GRANTING IN RECENT YEARS. UM, UH, SO CONSISTENTLY THAT IN LATE MAY OR EARLY JUNE, I WITHHELD MY APPLICATION, UH, KNOWING THAT THE PROCESS WAS GONNA CHANGE FROM A DOUBLE COMMITTEE PROCESS WHERE YOU GUYS APPROVE IT AND THE BOARD APPROVES IT AND IT TAKES THREE TO FOUR MONTHS. NOW IT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE DECISION, AND I WAS HOPEFUL THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO GET IT APPROVED BY THE END OF JULY. UM, NOW HE RETIRED AND, AND THE PROCESS IS BEING SCRUTINIZED, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE INSTEAD OF EVERYBODY REVIEWING IT, IT'S ONE ADMINISTRATOR AND THEY'RE WANTING MORE CLEAR GUIDANCE. UM, SO MY CURRENT SITUATION IS NOT, UH, SPELLED OUT IN THE LETTER OF THE LAW, UM, IN THE WAY THAT WE'RE HOPING THAT IT WILL BE. UH, SO THAT, UH, MY 84-YEAR-OLD MOTHER IN GEORGIA, I'LL BE ABLE TO BUILD HER A HOUSE RIGHT NEXT DOOR. AND, UH, WE CAN DO THAT BEFORE IT BECOMES A PHYSICAL HARDSHIP, UH, WHICH IT MIGHT BE IF I HAVE TO WAIT THE FIVE YEARS, UH, OF OWNERSHIP, UH, TO BUILD. UM, SO I THINK, UH, YOU KNOW, I I MINE AND MINE IS JUST ONE CASE. YOU KNOW, THIS IS A, THIS IS GONNA BE A CHANGE MOVING FORWARD TO MAKE IT, UH, CLARIFIED, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR, UH, FUTURE, UH, EXCEPTIONS TO BE MADE THAT ARE REASONABLE, UH, FOR INDIVIDUAL FAMILIES, YOU KNOW, LIKE OURS THAT JUST WANT [01:00:01] TO KEEP OUR FAMILY MEMBER OUT OF THE NURSING HOME AND, UH, WELL CARED FOR, YOU KNOW, BY HER OWN FAMILY. THAT'S ALL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THAT'S THE END OF THE LESSON. OKAY. ANYONE ELSE CARE TO SPEAK? PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. WELL, I GOT A QUICK QUESTION HERE. UH, PARAGRAPH B SUBPARAGRAPH FOUR C SAYS THAT, UH, IMMEDIATE FAMILY FOR A PERIOD OF 15 YEARS, THEN YOU GO DOWN TO THE NEXT PARAGRAPH FIVE AND IT SAYS, FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, UH, IF IT'S HELD? FOUR IS IF IT'S HELD IN A TRUST, AND FIVE, UM, IS TALKING ABOUT VOLUNTARY TRANSFER TO A NON IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER. WELL, WHEN YOU READ C, THE GREASE TO PLACE THE RESTRICTED COVENANTS ON THE SUBDIVISION OF THE PROPERTY PROHIBITS A TRANSFER OF THE PROPERTY. SO IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A TRUST. UH, GO UP TO FOUR. CORRECT. IF THE PROPERTY'S HELD IN THE TRUST, ALL TRUST BENEFICIARIES MUST NEVERMIND. AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S PART OF THE EXISTING CODE AND NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'RE TAKING. RIGHT? UH, ONE THAT WAS THE ONLY QUESTION I HAD. ONE, ONE COMMENT JUST TO OUR, OUR SPEAKERS ISSUE OR SITUATION. UM, RECENTLY WE'VE, UM, CREATED A NEW, UH, ORDINANCE FOR, UH, ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS, UM, WHICH POTENTIALLY COULD BE A, AN ALTERNATIVE, UM, IF YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO DO A FAMILY SUBDIVISION, UM, AND WOULD ALLOW YOU TO BUILD A SECOND HOME NOW WITH POTENTIALLY THE OPTION TO THEN SPLIT THE PROPERTY IN ANOTHER THREE YEARS. THAT IS TO JUST SOMETHING TO, TO CONSIDER. OKAY. SO THIS, THIS BASICALLY ALLOWS, UH, FOR, IT USES OUR, OUR REGULAR FAMILY SUBDIVISION RULE, BUT IF, UH, INSTEAD OF HAVING TO GO THROUGH BOTH BOARDS, STAFF CAN JUST, IT GOES THROUGH THE COMPLAINING STAFF. WELL, YEAH. WE, LIKE, WE, WE'VE ALREADY CHANGED IT. SO IT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS. I, I BELIEVE THIS LAYS IT OUT FOR STAFF TO, TO CLARIFY. UM, AND MY READING IS THAT, UM, NOT OWNING IT FOR FIVE YEARS WOULD NOT BE, UH, FINANCIAL HARDSHIP OR WOULD NOT BE, UH, WOULD BE A FINANCIAL HARDSHIP AND, AND NOT, UH, UH, FORGET THE HARDSHIP, THE WORDING. YEAH. YEAH. DIDN'T WE, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS AS WHEN IT WAS ADVERTISED IN JUNE, DIDN'T WE? MM-HMM . THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. YEP. IS IS THERE A I I I'M OKAY WITH IT. YEAH. YOU KNOW, I, UH, THE, THE ONLY CONCERN LONG TERM AND THAT, AND, UH, IT'S OBVIOUS, IT'S NOT VERY PLEASED WITH STAFF, BUT IN FUTURE, IF IT WAS EVER A SITUATION WHERE A STAFF MEMBER WAS TOO RESTRICTIVE AND DIDN'T GRANT THE VARIANCE, WHAT IS THE CHECKS AND BALANCE? IT STILL COMES BACK TO US. THE APPEAL PROCESS, WOULD IT BE BZA OR IT WOULD GO THROUGH THE BZA DENIAL OF A VARIANCE WOULD BE AN APPEALABLE DECISION BOARD. IT'S ALL APPEAL. OKAY. I WAS JUST MAKING SURE. OH, I'M, I'M SORRY. IN, IN A ZONING CONTEXT, IT WOULD BE, BUT THIS IS, UM, IN A SUBDIVISION CONTEXT, CORRECT? YEAH. AND, UM, SO THERE, THERE IS NOT A RIGHT OF APPEAL, UH, IN A SUBDIVISION CONTEXT. THERE IS FOR DENIAL OF A PLAT, YOU CAN APPEAL THAT TO CIRCUIT COURT. UM, I GUESS, I GUESS IF THEY CAME FORWARD WITH A PLAT SHOWING A FAMILY DIVISION AND THE VARIANCE WAS DENIED, THEY COULD TRY TO APPEAL IT TO CIRCUIT COURT. I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE. UM, BUT, BUT IT DOESN'T, THERE'S NO INTERMEDIATE APPELLATE LEVEL BODY OTHER THAN SUING THE COUNTY. I WAS JUST A OKAY. I MEAN, IT WOULD BE A WEIRD ONE, BUT, UH, I'VE SEEN SOME WEIRD STUFF HERE IN THE LAST YEAR OR TWO, KIND OF . BUT, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I, I, IS THERE ANY WAY TO ADD ANY LANGUAGE TO IT TO MAKE IT APPEALABLE IF FOR SOME REASON STAFF SHOULD HAVE GRANTED IT AND DIDN'T? I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT. UM, POTENTIALLY, UH, I GUESS ONE, UH, [01:05:01] RESPONSE, JUST TO, TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR, IS, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT, YOU'VE GOT THIS WINDOW OF TIME BEFORE THAT YOU'RE REQUIRED TO OWN A PROPERTY BEFORE A FAMILY DIVISION. RIGHT? AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THIS WINDOW OF TIME AFTER A DIVISION THAT'S A PROHIBITION ON TRANSFER. AND WHAT WE ARE DOING IS, IS, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT, UM, ORDINANCE PRO PROHIBITING TRANSFER AND THE ABILITY OF THE SUBDIVISION AGENT TO WAIVE THAT IS ALREADY ON YOUR BOOKS. AND WE'RE BRINGING THAT, WE'RE KIND OF DOING THE MIRROR IMAGE AND SAYING, WELL, THEY CAN DO THE SAME THING WITH THE OWNERSHIP PERIOD, THE PERIOD BEFORE THE FAMILY DIVISION. UM, YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO, UM, THE SUBDIVISION AGENT IS ALREADY EXERCISING THAT AUTHORITY ON THE PERIOD OF TIME AFTER THE DIVISION WITHOUT ANY APPEAL CHECK OR BALANCE OR ANYTHING. SO, UM, IF THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU WANTED US TO LOOK INTO, WE COULD LOOK INTO IT, IT WOULD, IT WOULD DELAY ACTION ON THIS, AND WE WOULD PROBABLY WOULD WANT TO, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IF WE'RE DOING IT FOR ONE, IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN FOR THE OTHER TWO SO THAT WE'RE CONSISTENT. OH, IT, IT IT DOES SOUND LIKE A VERY APPLICABLE PROBLEM THOUGH. I MEAN, IT, IT, I MEAN, DO YOU, DO YOU SEE IT BEING A, I MEAN, I, I MENTIONED IT AS A POSSIBILITY, BUT I MEAN, WHAT'S THE PROBABILITY OF A STAFF BEING AN ERROR IN, IN PUNISHING A YEAH, I THINK STAFF ARE PRETTY, UM, CAUTIOUS ABOUT THESE TYPES OF REQUESTS. AND OUR MAIN GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE AREN'T TRYING TO CHEAT THE SYSTEM. YOU KNOW, A FAMILY DIVISION IS ALLOWED FOR A REASON, AND, UM, IT'S NOT TO DO COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT AND DIVIDE PROPERTY AND THEN RESELL IT TO MAKE A PROFIT. IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FOR A FAMILY PURPOSE. AND SO WHEN WE GET A REQUEST THAT DOESN'T MEET ONE OF THESE PERIODS OF TIME, I THINK THE MAIN THING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, WHY ARE THEY NOT MEETING THE PERIOD OF TIME? IS IT SOMETHING THAT IS KIND OF OUTSIDE THEIR CONTROL AND ARE THEY, ARE THEY TRYING TO CHEAT THE SYSTEM? AND IF WE ARE, ARE SATISFIED THAT THERE IS REALLY SOME EXTERNAL HARDSHIP CIRCUMSTANCE AND THAT IT'S NOT A WORKAROUND, THEN I, I THINK UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES WE WOULD APPROVE IT WITH, WITH THE CAVEAT THAT WE HAVE BEEN ADDING THE PERIOD OF TIME TO THE OTHER. SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE ACCEPTING, WELL, YOU HAVEN'T OWNED IT FOR FIVE YEARS, YOU'VE ONLY OWNED IT FOR TWO. WELL, NORMALLY WE WOULD ADD THAT DIFFERENCE OF THREE TO THE PROHIBITION ON RESALE, AND THAT STOPS ANYBODY WHO'S TRYING TO DO COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, UH, RIGHT THERE, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A GOOD WAY TO MAKE MONEY. YEAH. BUT I KINDA AGREE WITH HUGH A LITTLE BIT WHERE, YOU KNOW, NOT WITH THE CURRENT STAFF, BUT IF WE HAVE A RENEGADE, UH, ADMINISTRATOR WHO IS EITHER GOING TOO RESTRICTIVE OR JUST APPROVING EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, THE CHECKS AND BALANCES, UH, YOU KNOW, LEAST AT THE BOARD, THE SUPERVISOR'S LEVEL, THE ELECTED AS FAR AS SOME KIND OF MECHANISM TO REVIEW WHAT'S GOING ON THERE VERSUS THE ME GOING TO THE COURTS BEING THE FIRST. RIGHT. WELL, THE BOARD APPOINTS THE SUBDIVISION AGENT. CORRECT. UM, SO THEY DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY'RE DOING. THEY CAN APPOINT SOMEBODY ELSE AND THEY HIRE AND FIRE THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, SO. RIGHT. UM, YOU KNOW, ALTHOUGH THERE MAY NOT BE A, AN APPELLATE BODY OTHER THAN THE COURT FOR THESE TYPES OF DECISIONS, ULTIMATELY, THE BOARD EXERCISES APPOINTMENT AUTHORITY OVER BOTH THE SUBDIVISION AGENT AND THEIR BOSS. MM-HMM . OKAY. WELL, OKAY. THAT NOW I'D BE DECIDED. I'M GOOD NOW. I'M GOOD NOW. YEAH. THAT I JUST, THANK YOU. JUST SOMETHING, SOME KIND OF BALANCE. YOU GET A, YOU GET A STAFF, IT'S, HAS A PERSONAL ISSUE 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD WITH SOMEBODY AND HE WAS LIKE, NOPE, I AIN'T GONNA GIVE IT TO YOU. MM-HMM . AND, UH, BUT IF THEY COMPLAINED TO THE, UH, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND THEN THAT POSITION WOULD BE UNDER SCRUTINY, AND THEN, SO THERE, IT'S NOT A DIRECT, BUT THERE IS, THERE IS SOME KIND OF CONSEQUENCE THAT CAN BE, UH, DONE WITH THAT. SO I, I'M OKAY AT THIS POINT, UNLESS ANYBODY ELSE HAS GOT ANYTHING ELSE. I'M GOOD. YEAH. I, I, I, I GUESS I'M JUST STRUGGLING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TEXT IS SAYING. SO THE ADMINISTRATOR WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE THE, UH, DIFFERENCE FROM WHATEVER THE, LIKE THE OWNERSHIP REQUIREMENT FROM BEFORE AND TACK IT ON TO THE END. IS, IS THAT ALLOWABLE WITH THE ORDINANCE AS IT'S BEING PRESENTED? UM, THE ORDINANCE ALLOWS FOR THE GRANTING OF WAIVERS. IT, IT DOESN'T EXPRESSLY SAY, YEAH, YOU NEED TO TACK IT ON TO THE END. OKAY. UH, BUT, [01:10:01] BUT IT ALLOWS, IT WOULD BE THAT WE, WE CAN GRANT A CONDITIONAL WAIVER. OKAY. BUT THIS ALSO ALLOWS THE ADMINISTRATOR TO PUT THIS INTO THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S HANDS IF THEY WISH. I THINK THEY JUST WEIGH, I DON'T THINK THEY, NO. WE'RE, IF THEY, IF THEY FEEL IT'S OUTSIDE THE ORDINANCE, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUT IT, BECOME, BRING IT BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION. NO, SIR, I DON'T, THAT'S NO, NO. IT WOULD BE AN ADMINISTRATIVE DECISION FOLLOWING THIS. IT WOULD MAKE IT PURELY ADMINISTRATIVE, BUT IT, AND IT WOULD BE DISCRETIONARY. THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO GRANT IT, BUT THEY WOULD ENABLE THEM TO GRANT IT. I KNOW, I READ THAT. I MEAN, I, I'VE NEVER NOT GRANTED THAT VARIANCE BY SWAPPING, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE SCHEME OF THE THINGS IS THAT FROM THE TIME IT WAS ORIGINALLY BOUGHT TO, IT COULD BE SOLD AS TWO SEPARATE PLACES 10 YEARS, AND THEN WE, IT WAS DRAWN AS FIVE AND FIVE AND THAT, YOU KNOW, TWO AND EIGHT MM-HMM . THREE AND SEVEN I, IT, THE, THE INTENT OF THE CODE IS STILL MET THERE. AND, AND I'VE NEVER, I'VE NEVER VOTED AGAINST THAT, BUT THAT JUST SIMPLY JUST GIVES STAFF THAT POWER. BUT THEY'RE, THEY'VE GOT SOME DECRE DISCRETION IN THAT TOO. I GUESS RIGHT NOW IT, IT WOULD BE DIS AS DRAFTED IN FRONT OF YOU. IT WOULD BE DISCRETIONARY TO STAFF AS TO WHETHER THEY IMPOSED THAT CONDITION OF ADDING THE TIME TOGETHER TO EQUAL 10. IF, IF THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO YOU, YOU COULD, UM, YOU COULD, WE COULD WRITE IT IN THAT IT, IT MAY, THE VARIANCE CAN BE GRANTED, THESE CONDITIONS ARE WAIVED, BUT THE, THAT THE VARIANCE MUST, YOU KNOW, ADD THE PERIOD OF TIME TO THE SALE AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THAT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU, WE'LL ADD IT. THAT THAT WAS THE, THAT WAS THE INTENT OF THE CODE ORIGINALLY TO, TO, TO KEEP IT FROM BEING A, A FOR-PROFIT QUICK WAY TO SUBDIVIDE LAND AND, AND TO GUARANTEE THAT IT WAS USED FOR, YOU KNOW, BUT, YOU KNOW, IN THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCE, UH, SAY THIS IS DONE AND THEN IF THE FAMILY MEMBERS PASS AWAY, OH, IT WOULD ALSO GIVE THE STAFF THE ABILITY TO MOVE THIS PROJECT ON AND IT NOT, YOU KNOW, SIT THERE UNSELLABLE AT THAT POINT TOO, WOULD IT? CORRECT. UM, YOU KNOW, PRESENTLY, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE EVENT OF A DEATH OF A FAMILY MEMBER, THE PERIOD ON, UM, SELLING IT, WE COULD USE A WAIVER. UH, AND, YOU KNOW, A DEATH WOULD BE A, A HARDSHIP THAT WE WOULD GENERALLY PROVIDE A WAIVER IN THAT INSTANCE. AND, UM, SO I THINK WE WOULD, EVEN IF WE ADDED IN LANGUAGE THAT SAID, WELL, YOU NEED TO, IF YOU SHORTEN THE TIME PERIOD BEFORE YOU NEED TO ADD IT ON TO THE END, WE WOULD STILL WANT TO RETAIN THE ABILITY TO WAIVE THAT TIME PERIOD ON THE END IN THE EVENT OF A DEATH OR SOME UNUSUAL HARDSHIP THERE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I, I FEEL LIKE YES, PLEASE. WE'RE ALL IN THE CLOUDS A LITTLE BIT. UM, YEAH. MM-HMM . WHAT, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HARDSHIP AND AN INCONVENIENCE? UM, I GUESS THAT'S A MATTER OF PERSPECTIVE . I THINK IT, IT'S, IT'S AN ISSUE OF MAGNITUDE. UM, AND A LOT OF TIMES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, HERE YOU HAVE, UH, A SITUATION WHERE SOMEBODY'S TRYING TO RELOCATE A FAMILY MEMBER AND YOU COULD BE RELOCATING SOMEBODY FROM ALABAMA OR FROM DOWN THE ROAD, DOWN THE ROAD MIGHT BE AN INCONVENIENCE, BUT, YOU KNOW, ALABAMA MIGHT BE A, A HARDSHIP OR, UM, YOU KNOW, IF YOU, IF YOU HAVE A FINANCIAL, UM, SOMETHING THAT COULD BE CURED WITH MONEY, WELL, YOU KNOW, SIX FIGURES MIGHT BE A, A REAL HARDSHIP, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS MIGHT NOT BE. IT'S, THAT WOULD BE A, A STAFF DETERMINATION TO DRAW THAT BOUNDARY LINE. OKAY. OKAY. YEAH, I'M, I'M FINE WITH THIS. OKAY. TAKE A MOTION PLEASE. PLEASE DO ANYTHING ELSE FINDING THAT THE PROPOSED SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS ARE APPROPRIATE FOR PUBLIC NECESSITY, CONVENIENCE, AND GENERAL WELFARE, AND A GOOD SUBDIVISION PRACTICES. I BELIEVE THE PLANNING COMMISSION FORWARD THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WITH THE RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND I THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. A OPPOSED AYES HAVE, IT WOULD BE FORWARDED ONTO THE BOARD PROBABLY ABOUT A MONTH. THAT'S IT FOR THE PUBLIC HEARINGS. OUR [VIII.A. SP2025-03-01 - Preliminary Site Plan for Toray Property - Manufacturing/Warehousing/Distribution Facility - A request for final site plan approval for a manufacturing/warehousing/distribution facility. Identified on tax map 12G, section 1, block 2, as lot 5A1, the subject property is zoned Industrial (I) and is located in the North River Magisterial District. - Chase Lenz, Zoning Administrator] NEXT ITEM, NEW BUSINESS SP 20 25 0 3 0 1 PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN FOR TORY PROPERTY MANUFACTURING [01:15:01] WAREHOUSING DISTRIBUTION FACILITY. REQUEST FOR FINAL SITE PLAN, APPROVAL FOR MANUFACTURING WAREHOUSING DISTRIBUTION FACILITY IDENTIFIED ON TAX MAP 12 G SECTION ONE, BLOCK TWO AS LOT FIVE A ONE. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS ZONED INDUSTRIAL LOCATED NORTH RIVER MAGISTERIAL DISTRICT KELLY. ATTACHED IS A PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN FOR TORY PROPERTY SUBMITTED ON BEHALF OF TC MID-ATLANTIC DEVELOPMENT WITH AGENCY APPROVALS FROM COUNTY ZONING VDOT, DEQ BUILDING INSPECTIONS AND FRONT ROYAL PUBLIC WORKS. THE SITE PLAN INCLUDES THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPERTY IDENTIFIED ON TAX MAP 12 G 1 2 5 A ONE WITH A MANUFACTURING WAREHOUSING DISTRIBUTION FACILITY, APPROXIMATELY 230,200 SQUARE FEET IN SIZE. THE PROPERTY IS ZONE INDUSTRIAL. THE PROPOSED WAREHOUSING AND DISTRIBUTION FACILITY, LAND USE IS PERMITTED BY WRIGHT IN THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT. CERTAIN MANUFACTURING USES ARE PERMITTED BY WRIGHT. UH, YOU CAN SEE WARREN COUNTY CODE SUBSECTION 180 DASH 28 B THREE FOR REFERENCE IN THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT, WHILE OTHER MANUFACTURING USES ARE PERMITTED ONLY UPON ISSUANCE OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. THIS COVER SHEET INCLUDES A NOTE THAT THE SITE PLAN IS INTENDED FOR USES PERMITTED BY. RIGHT. AND ANY FUTURE USE OF THE FACILITY REQUIRING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WOULD FOLLOW THE PROPER PROCEDURES THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR DETERMINE. THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN IS COMPLIANT WITH CHAPTER 180 OF THE WARREN COUNTY CODE, AND THAT ALL NECESSARY AGENCY APPROVALS HAVE BEEN OBTAINED AS OF SEPTEMBER 15TH, 2025. THANK YOU. WELL, THE, UH, WHERE THEY'RE PUT IN THIS BUILDING, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO SEE IT FROM 5 22. SO IT'S, UH, I FEEL IT HAS NO, NO VIEW IMPACT WHATSOEVER. AND THEY DO HAVE A STOP LIGHT AND THIS IS GONNA BE A SPEC BUILDING. YEAH. MY CONCERNS, AND I'VE NOT SEEN THE GEOTECH REPORT FOR IT, BUT THERE ARE SOME FAIRLY DEEP CUTS AND FILLS AND ONCE YOU GET TO FINISH GRADE, THERE ARE SOME FAIRLY DEEP PIPE IN THE GROUND HERE TOO. AND SEEING HOW THIS IS BESIDE THE WATERSHED THERE, I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT HAVE EFFECT ON THE WATER TABLE OTHER THAN THEIR B AND P. YEAH. I MEAN THAT THERE'S LIKE A BIG WATERSHED THAT COMES THROUGH THERE WHERE THE FIREHOUSE IS, WHICH KIND OF BRINGS WATER INTO THE TOWN. YEAH. THIS IS NORTH OF THAT. I REALIZE THAT, BUT IF IT'S UPHILL FROM IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S OH, RIGHT, RIGHT. WOULD, WOULD DEQ MADE ENOUGH, UM, DETERMINATION THAN THE STORMWATER PART OF THIS TO I WAS MORE CONCERNED WITH THE GROUNDWATER. WERE THE, UH, I DIDN'T CATCH THE CUT. HOW MUCH CUT DID YOU SEE? I'M, I'M JUST LOOKING HERE. I MEAN, LOOK HOW DEEP DOWN THAT STORM IS AND YOU, YOU PRETTY MUCH KNOW ROCKS ABOUT RIGHT THERE. SO THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF BLASTING. WELL, THEY'RE DRIVING SOMETHING NOW. THEY'RE DRIVING PYLONS OVER THERE. I MEAN, 20 FEET DOESN'T SCARE ME. IT'S JUST A, IT JUST LOOKS DEEP THE WAY DRAWING, DOESN'T IT? MM-HMM . WHAT PAGE IS THAT? I DIDN'T SEE THAT. UH, THAT IS, SHOOT, IT'S PAGE 13 OF 37. THAT ONE SPOT WE HAVE. YOUR GRID LINES ARE EVERY FOOT. YEAH. WELL, ABOUT EIGHT OR NINE FEET TO THE TOP OF THE PROPOSED GRADE. THEN THAT ONE BIG PIPE THERE LOOKS LIKE IT'S BEEN ANOTHER 20 FEET DOWN. IS THAT SEWER? THAT'S STORM. THAT'S STORM. WELL, WOULD IT HAVE TO BE S DEEP? UM, GETTING UNDER OTHER UTILITIES, PLUS YOU LOOK RIGHT THERE, THEY'VE GOT ONE THAT'S DOWN PRETTY LOW, SO THEY'VE GOTTA GET UNDER IT. YEAH, I KNOW, I KNOW SOME CERTAIN PLACES SEWER JUST ENDS UP DEEP OUT [01:20:01] THERE 'CAUSE THERE'S NO WAY TO GET, YOU KNOW. YEAH, YEAH. THE WAY IT WORKS OUT. YEAH. YEAH. ALL OTHER WAYS. UH, FORCE MAIN AND I DON'T WANNA GET INTO THAT. YEAH. IT'S NOT MY JOB TO RE-ENGINEER IT. AND JUST AS A REMINDER, UM, THE WAY THESE SITE PLANS WORK, IT'S ESSENTIALLY A CHECK TO MAKE SURE IT'S CHECKING ALL THE BOXES THAT OUR ZONING ORDINANCE REQUIRES, RIGHT? MM-HMM . AND, UH, IF IT CHECKS THOSE BOXES, THEN IT'S A MINISTERIAL REQUIREMENT TO APPROVE IT. UM, IT MIGHT BE A BAD SITE PLAN, BUT IF IT'S NOT AN ILLEGAL SITE PLAN, THEN WE DON'T GET TO DENY IT. WE GOT, WE GOT TOO MANY PEOPLE ON THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER IN THE BUSINESS. TOTALLY GET THAT, BUT STILL GET TO EXPRESS MY OPINION. . WELL, I'M NOT SMART ENOUGH TO DISPROVE THEM WRONG. SO OH, I'M NOT SAYING IT IS JUST, JUST A CONCERN. DEQS LOOKED AT IT. YEAH, THAT'S FOR EROSION CONTROL PURPOSES. I'M TALKING ABOUT FOR DRINKING WATER PURPOSES. OH WOW. YOU GOT YOUR UH, THEY DO HAVE THEIR CONTAINMENT. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. THAT THAT DOESN'T WORRY ME. YEAH, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE TRYING TO COLLECT FROM ALL THE WHOLE SITE. YEAH. I MEAN, YEAH, AS I SAYING YEAH, THE, JUST NOT THIS ONE, THE EROSION CONTROL DOESN'T, THE EROSION CONTROL DOESN'T CONCERN ME. YEAH. DON'T LOOK LIKE HE'D PUT IT IN THAT DEEP IF IT WASN'T SOME REASON FOR FALL OR SOMETHING THAT YEAH, THEY'RE TRYING TO, BECAUSE THAT'S MORE WORK FOR THEM. YEAH. I MEAN, YEAH, THAT'S, YEAH. YEAH. AND THAT, THAT'S GONNA BE EXPENSIVE TOO. BUT THAT'S ANOTHER STORY. WELL, OUR, OUR SEWER LINE IS REALLY DEEP 'CAUSE IT HAD TO GO UNDERNEATH THE, UH, THE CREEK BED. YEP. SO THAT HAPPENS. MM-HMM . AS IT. YEP. WELL, WOULD YOU, WOULD YOU TAKE A MOTION? PLEASE GIVE IT TO ME. I FIND THAT THE PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE WARREN COUNTY CODE SECTION 180 DASH 46. I MOVE THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVE THE TORE PROPERTY SITE PLAN. MAY 2ND. CORRECTION, IT'S 180 DASH 64. WHAT DID I SAY? 46. 46. OH, WE HAD A LITTLE DYSLEXIA WITH THE CORRECTION SECTION 180 DASH 64. I MOVE THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVE. I'LL SECOND THE TO SECOND . THANK YOU. ALL THOSE FAVORABLY SAY AYE. A AYE. OPPOSED? AYES HAVE IT. OUR NEXT ITEM [IX. Consent Agenda] IS CONSENT AGENDA SHORT. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA FOR ADVERTISING AS PRESENTED. SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? AYES HAVE IT A COMMISSION, COMMISSION [X. Commission Matters] MEMBER CONCERNS. WILL YOU GOT ANYTHING? UH, NOTHING FOR ME. SCOTT, WHEN'S NOVEMBER'S PLANNING MEETING? THE 13TH. OH YEAH. IT'S A THURSDAY BECAUSE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING GETS BUMPED BECAUSE OF VETERAN DAY ELECTION. YES. ALLEGED NO. ELECTIONS IS THE WEEK BEFORE. YEAH. YEAH. VETERAN'S DAY WAS IS TUESDAY? YEAH. OH, OKAY. YEAH, IT'S TUESDAY. THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS GETS BUMPED TO WEDNESDAY BECAUSE OF VETERAN'S DAY BECAUSE WE'RE CLOSED. AND THEN THE PLANNING COMMISSION GETS BUMPED TO THURSDAY. SO NEXT MONTH THE MEETING IS ON THURSDAY, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. I ACTUALLY HAD A NEIGHBOR COME AND ASK ME WHEN OUR NEXT MEETING WAS . IT IS ON THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 13TH. OKAY. SO THE, UH, NEXT THING IS, UH, THE HOTEL. I THOUGHT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE UP FOR ADVERTISEMENT THIS YEAR, THIS MONTH. ADVERTISEMENT FOR THEIR SITE PLAN. NO, WE DON'T HAVE IT, SO, NO. WELL, I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE IT. I JUST WANTED, IF THERE WAS SOMETHING GOING ON THERE, I, I DUNNO, I HAVE TO YEAH, THAT OKAY. THAT WOULD BE A CHAD'S QUESTION. WELL, WHEN THEY WERE, WHEN THE ENGINEER WAS HERE, HE SAID, YEAH, WE'RE GONNA, YEAH, I'M NOT PRETTY CORRESPOND. I OKAY. I'LL BLAME CHASE. HE'S NOT HERE. YEAH, IT'S CHASE'S FAULT. IT SOUNDS GREAT IDEA. IT'S DAMNIT CHASE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S IT. THAT'S IT. TWO THINGS. FIRST ONE, HAPPY HALLOWEEN. SECOND ONE, IF YOU DON'T VOTE, YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE WHO UP. WELL, OH, MY ISSUE'S A BIT MORE COMPLICATED. THERE IS A VERY GOOD CHANCE THAT THIS WILL BE MY LAST PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. MM-HMM . AND I SHOULD BE MOVING ON TO AN APPOINTMENT TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. NOW THAT IS NOT CHISELED IN GRANITE YET, BUT IT, UH, HAS BEEN VERBALLY CONFIRMED AT LAST NIGHT'S MEETING. [01:25:01] ALL I WOULD LIKE TO THANK EVERY SINGLE PLANNER I'VE EVER WORKED WITH THE, UH, STAFF AND, UH, PLANNERS OVER THE LAST 12 YEARS. IT HAS, UH, ABSOLUTELY GIVEN ME THE CONFIDENCE AND HOPEFULLY THE EXPERIENCE TO DO A PRETTY GOOD JOB AS BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, ESPECIALLY ON THE LAND STUFF. UH, I WILL STRUGGLE TERRIBLY ON BUDGET ITEMS IN JANUARY, BUT THAT'LL BE, UH, THAT'LL BE A NEW LEARNING CURVE. BUT THOUGH AT LEAST I'VE GOT SOME CONCEPT FROM THE YEARS BEING HERE, AND I THINK THAT'S GONNA, THAT'S GONNA HELP ME. SO, UH, I COULD BE BACK, BUT I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE. THERE'S A, THERE'S A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT LEGAL AND, UH, CHEST MOVES THAT WILL OCCUR OVER THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO, BUT IF I DON'T MAKE IT BACK, UH, I WILL BE ON A BOARD. I'LL STILL BE VERY REACHABLE FOR ANY OF THE PLANTERS THAT NEED ME FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE. AND, UH, IT, IT, IT, IT REALLY HAS. IT'S BEEN A, IT IS BEEN A GREAT EXPERIENCE. IT, IT ABSOLUTELY GIVE ME THE, I WOULDN'T EVEN, UH, IN HINDSIGHT, I WOULDN'T EVEN CONSIDER THAT BOARD, UH, SPOT WITHOUT THIS, UH, WITHOUT THIS EXPERIENCE. SO I, I, I THINK IT'S GONNA BE HELPFUL. BUT, UH, IF I DON'T SEE YOU, I'M OVER THERE. COME SEE ME. AND IF, UH, IF IT GOES BAD, I'LL SEE YOU NEXT MONTH. SO WE'LL SEE. WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. BUT I, WELL, I HOPE IT DOESN'T GO BAD, BUT I HATE TO SEE YOU LEAVE. HOPEFULLY. YEAH, YEAH. YEAH. I, I WILL SAY IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE AND WHENEVER YOU GO OVER THERE, GOOD LUCK. YEAH, I'LL NEED THAT TOO. THANK YOU MUCH . AND IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WE CAN SAY TO HELP YOU, HEY, CAN YOU BRING THE ATTITUDE THAT WE HAVE TO IT? A LITTLE LEVITY? I HOPE SO. KEEP THINGS MOVING. YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S ONE OF THE GOALS, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. SO WE'LL GIVE UP TO ME ON THAT. GRETCHEN, BRIDGET BRIDGE. I'M SORRY. THAT'S OKAY. IT'S OKAY. I, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD. I JUST, I'M, I'M STARTING TO FEEL LIKE I'M GETTING A LITTLE BIT MORE FAMILIAR WITH THE WHOLE PROCESS AND UNDERSTANDING AND, UM, YEAH, I LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUING TO BE ABLE TO, SIR, I, I WILL SAY YOU SEEM LIKE YOU'RE A LITTLE MORE RELAXED THAN YOU ARE FOR YOUR FIRST OR SECOND MEETING. SHE, SHE CAN FIND THAT RIGHT SPOT ON THAT THING. SHE'S GOT IT LIT. YEP. GETTING IN . OKAY. JORDAN, YOU GOT ANYTHING ELSE FOR US? IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS ON THE B ORDINANCE, GET 'EM TO STAFF SO THAT WE CAN INCORPORATE THEM IN WHAT WE BRING BACK TO YOU. IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE WORKING WITH YOU, MR. HENRY. THANK YOU. UH, KELLY, UH, JUST PARROT WHAT HE SAID. ALSO, UM, GET BACK WITH ME ON THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE HAD DURING THE WORK SESSION, JUST AS SOON AS YOU GUYS CAN. ALL RIGHT. UM, I'LL STILL BE SEEING YOU, SO THERE'S NO OPPORTUNITY TO MISS YOU. UM, I DO WANNA TOOT MY SON'S HORN THOUGH. UM, HE SCORED, UH, PERFECT MARKS ON HIS BENCHMARK EXAMS THIS WEEK. UM, SO I JUST WANNA PUBLICLY GIVE HIM A PAT ON THE BACK. SWEET. THANKS. COOL. ALLISON. OKAY. WELL, WITH THE DEPARTURE OF MR. HENRY, I NOW HAVE A QUESTION FOR LEGAL. UM, ARE WE GONNA BE REQUIRED TO HOLD THE, AN ELECTION TO FILL THE VICE CHAIRMAN'S SLOT? NO. ELECTION AMONG US, RIGHT? FOR THE ACROSS. OH YEAH. I THOUGHT YOU MEANT TO FILL, IF YOU ARE LEAVING, WE WILL NOT HAVE A VICE CHAIRMAN. IF, IF YOU'RE LEAVING AND I GET SICK, WE'RE HURT. YOU NEED A VICE CHAIR? YES. SOMEBODY WILL HAVE TO. SO WHAT WE NEED TO, WHAT? WE NEED TO HAVE AN ELECTION TO FILL HIS SLOT UNTIL OUR NORMAL ELECTIONS IN JANUARY, OR WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO MONTHS. MM-HMM . UM, I, I THINK YOU COULD HAVE AN ELECTION, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE TO. OKAY. BECAUSE IT, IT, IF, FOR EXAMPLE, MR. MYERS WAS SICK, UH, AND WASN'T ABLE TO, UH, MAKE A MEETING AND MR. HENRY IS THAT SEAT WAS VACANT, THE REMAINING MEMBERS WOULD APPOINT A TEMPORARY PRESIDING OFFICER FOR THAT MEETING. ONLY 'CAUSE WE'VE ONLY GOT TWO MEETINGS. CORRECT. YOU KNOW, THERE'S ONE, A LOW RISK AND, AND THERE'S AN ALTERNATE PROCEDURE IN PLACE. SO WE, WE CAN DO IT IF YOU WANT TO ELECT A VICE CHAIRMAN FOR TWO MONTHS, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO. OKAY. YEAH, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION, BUT I THINK I LIKE THAT PROCEDURE. YEAH. UH, I AM ALSO IN FAVOR OF LETTING CHAOS, RAIN THAT WAY. YES. YOU LOOK THIS WAY. JUST LOOK DOWN THROUGH YOUR RATHER INTENTIONALLY, SCOTT. BUT HEY, WILL IS ALSO IN THE WAY, . WELL, THAT'S WHAT HE SAID, BUT I I WILL ALSO, HASN'T CAUSED ME ANY PROBLEMS. SO ADJOURN BEFORE SHE DOES SOMETHING. , I'M, I'M TRYING TO, IF YOU BE QUIET A MINUTE, [01:30:01] IS THERE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? SO MOVED. SECOND. GOOD NIGHT EVERYBODY. THANK YOU . * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.