* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [Board of Supervisors Liaison Meeting on October 16, 2025.]
          [00:00:03]
          TOWN, UM, LIAISON MEETING. 
          SO THE, UH, I'D LIKE TO BEGIN WITH A, UM, UH, REPRESENTATIVE UPDATE AND, AND, UM, MADAM, UH, MAYOR, IF, IF YOU AND YOUR, UH, COUNCILMAN WOULD, WOULD GIVE AN UPDATE AND THEN WE'LL DO THE SAME THING. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, THANK YOU. 
          UM, WE, UH, JOINING ME TONIGHT IS COUNCILMAN JOSH INGRAM. 
          UM, I, WHEN YOU SAY AN UPDATE, UH, SHOULD WE JUST START WITH THE AGENDA SINCE OR SINCE WE'RE THE FIRST ONES OR? WELL, ANYTHING THAT YOU'D LIKE TO, IF, IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT'S PERTINENT THAT YOU FEEL THAT YOU'D LIKE TO PUT OUT TO THE COMMUNITY. 
          HMM. 
          NOTHING OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD THAT WE AREN'T, THAT WE HAVEN'T PUT OUT AT OUR WORK SESSION. 
          WE, I WILL SAY WE DID NOT HAVE A WORK SESSION THIS WEEK, UM, BECAUSE OF VML. 
          UM, SOME PEOPLE ATTEND VML, SO, UM, WE WILL HAVE A MEETING IN TWO WEEKS. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, SO SORRY ABOUT THAT. 
          I'M, I WAS, I WASN'T PREPARED FOR THAT OR I  SO, UM, DO WE WANNA JUST START OFF WITH ITEM NUMBER TWO? WELL, YOU, YOU CAN'T, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU WANTED TO, TO ADD ANYTHING? UM, COUNCILMAN INGRAM? UH, NO. 
          NO, MADAM MR. CHAIRMAN, I HAVE NOTHING THAT I WANTED TO ADD EITHER. 
          SO MADAM MAYOR, WE'LL JUST JUMP RIGHT TO THE AGENDA. 
          UH, SO ITEM NUMBER TWO WAS THE JOINT TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE SUBCOMMITTEE UPDATE. 
          AND I DO BELIEVE THEY, THEY HAVEN'T MET FOR THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS, HOWEVER, UH, MR. PETTY DID HAVE SOME THINGS THAT HE WANTED TO ADD. 
          HE CHECKED IN. 
          SO, YEAH, I BELIEVE THE COMMITTEE, UM, SO R TWO REPRESENTATIVES ARE COUNCIL MEMBER WOOD COUNCIL MEMBER RAPPAPORT. 
          UM, BUT I KNOW THEY'VE BEEN DISCUSSING SOME, SOME OF THE SOUTH STREET SMART SCALE PROJECTS THAT THE TOWN IS WORKING ON. 
          AND I THINK WE'LL KNOW A LITTLE BIT MORE IN PROBABLY THE NEXT FEW WEEKS AS WE'LL BE MEETING WITH VDOT HERE IN THE COMING WEEKS TO, UH, TO GET SOME UPDATES. 
          SO I THINK THAT'LL BE, UH, GOOD PROOF THAT THAT PROJECT'S MOVING FORWARD. 
          AND I KNOW THAT ALSO COUNCIL MEMBER RAPPAPORT MENTIONED AT THE LAST, ONE OF THE LAST MEETINGS, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT TURN LANES ON COMMERCE AVENUE, AND HE'S GONNA BE FOLLOWING UP WITH THE STANTON OFFICE TO SEE IF THEY HAVE ANY UPDATES REGARDING SOME OF THAT INFORMATION REGARDING SOME LEFT TURN, UH, LANES THERE ON COMMERCE AVENUE. 
          SO, SO IS THAT, IS THAT TO ACCOMMODATE FOR THE, THE, THE LEAFERS OR, UH, I THINK THE TWO INTERSECTIONS THAT WERE DISCUSSED WERE ACTUALLY RIGHT OUTSIDE THE GOVERNMENT CENTER HERE AT SECOND AND THIRD STREET. 
          'CAUSE THERE IS NO LEFT TURNS AS YOU'RE HEADING NORTH. 
          I KNOW THERE ARE SOME RIGHT OF WAY CHALLENGES THERE, BUT AS YOU KNOW, IS PROBABLY COMING HERE TO THE GOVERNMENT CENTER. 
          SOMETIMES MAKING THAT LEFT TURN COULD BE A CHALLENGE. 
          THEN YOU'RE BLOCKING TRAFFIC OR THE POST OFFICE. 
          SO I THINK THE IDEA IS, IS TO LOOK AT THE FEASIBILITY OF ADDING ANY INFRASTRUCTURE WITHIN THERE. 
          SO MR. RAPPAPORT, I THINK WILL FOLLOW UP WITH THE SUBCOMMITTEE AS HE HEARS FROM VDOT. 
          I JUST SEE IT AS THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND AND TAKE YOUR CHANCES, . 
          YES. 
          WELL, HOPEFULLY WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY ISSUES THERE, BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALL I HAVE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ONE THING I JUST WANTED TO MENTION AT, UM, UH, UH, REGARDING COMMERCE AVENUE, UH, PEOPLE WERE REPORTING TO ME TODAY AT SCHOOL ABOUT, UM, SO MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING DOWN COMMERCE AND MAKING A LEFT UP SIXTH STREET. 
          AND THEY WERE, IT WAS SOMEBODY THAT DIDN'T LIVE IN TOWN AND THEY SAID, WHAT IN THE WORLD, WHERE ARE ALL THOSE PEOPLE GOING TO? AND I SAID, WELL, FOR ONE, I THINK BECAUSE TRAFFIC IS NOT NOW CUTTING DOWN, UH, BY THE STUDENT UNION AND BING CROSBY ALL OF THE TRAFFIC THAT'S GONNA BE GOING OUT THAT WAY OUT HAPPY CREEK OR, UM, TOWARDS LEACH RUN OR THE SCHOOLS OR, UM, ANY, ANYTHING OUT IN THAT AREA. 
          SHE SHORES, CHRISTIANDOM, UM, THEY'RE ALL BEING FUNNELED DOWN ONE STREET. 
          SO I THINK THAT'S, AND I TOLD THEM, SO THE PLAN IS NEXT SPRING, THAT EIGHTH STREET BRIDGE WILL BE DONE. 
          IF YOU HAVE ANY INTEREST IN KNOWING THAT INFORMATION , THE PUBLIC MIGHT HAVE INTEREST IN THAT, BUT THAT'S OUR HOPE IS THAT THAT BRIDGE WILL, UM, BE COMPLETE. 
          SO THEN PEOPLE CAN USE EITHER, EITHER WAY TO GET INTO THAT AREA. 
          SO ITEM NUMBER THREE WAS SOMETHING THE TOWN BROUGHT FORWARD AND IT WAS ABOUT TOURISM. 
          AND IF, AND IF YOU DON'T MIND, I'M JUST GONNA READ WHAT WE HAVE HERE BECAUSE INSTEAD OF ME TRYING TO SUMMARIZE WHAT'S GOING ON, IT MIGHT BE EASIER FOR THE PUBLIC, UM, TO, TO UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS ON, UH, THE LIAISON AGENDA. 
          SO SINCE 1993, THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL HAS FUNDED AND MANAGED 
          [00:05:01]
THE FRONT ROYAL WARREN COUNTY VISITOR CENTER ON MAIN STREET, AND HAS ALSO PROMOTED OUR COMMUNITIES TOURISM ASSETS WITHIN THE TOWN AND COUNTY. 
          IN 2017, THE COUNTY ADOPTED THE INCREASED TRANSIENT OCCUPANCY T WHICH, WHICH THEY CALL IT TAUGHT TO ASSIST IN FUNDING, TOURISM ACTIVITIES AND OUTREACH. 
          THEN THE TOWN AND COUNTY CREATED A JOINT TOURISM ADVISORY COMMITTEE TO ASSIST WITH SUPPORTING TOURISM PROGRAMMING AND MARKETING. 
          AND THIS COMMITTEE HELPED WITH ENHANCING THE COMMUNITY WAY, FINDING SHINDO SPEARS, A SPIRITS TRAIL, SORRY, CIVIL WAR TRAILS AND REGIONAL PARTNERSHIPS. 
          AND THEN LATER IN 2020, THERE WAS A JOINT EFFORT TO DETERMINE THE FUTURE OF TOURISM IN FRONT ROYAL AND WARREN COUNTY. 
          AFTER MEETING WITH THE COMMITTEE, IT WAS DECIDED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE OPTION TO EXECUTE AN RFP TO CONTRACT OUT THE OPERATIONS WITH BOTH THE TOWN AND COUNTY FINANCIALLY CONTRIBUTING TO THE EFFORT. 
          THE CONTRACT WAS LATER AWARDED TO JOL AND THEN IN EARLY 2023, EARLY AS IN LIKE JANUARY, UH, THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL, UH, WITHDREW ITS INTEREST IN THE CONTRACT. 
          AND THEN SHORTLY AFTER THE COUNTY PROVIDED WRITTEN NOTICE TO THE TOWN WITH THEIR INTENTION TO OPERATE A COUNTY TOURISM DEPARTMENT BEGINNING JULY 1ST, 2023, THE TOWN AND COUNTY HAVE BEEN FUNDING THEIR OWN TOURISM DEPARTMENTS AND ACTIVITIES NOW WITH TWO SEPARATE DEPARTMENTS. 
          THERE ARE NOW TWO WEBSITES, TWO SOCIAL MEDIA PAGES, TWO BUDGETS, AND STILL ONLY ONE VISITOR CENTER. 
          AND IN THE PRESENTATIONS FOR TOURISM IN 2020, THERE WAS AN IN-HOUSE OPTION IN WHICH THE TOWN OR COUNTY WOULD MANAGE THE TOURISM ACTIVITIES WITH BOTH LOCALITIES FINANCIALLY CONTRIBUTING TO THE EFFORT. 
          THE COLLABORATIVE INITIATIVE WOULD MEET REGULARLY WITH AN ADVISORY COMMITTEE MADE UP OF COMMUNITY STAKEHOLDERS FROM TOURISM RELATED BUSINESSES OR ORGANIZATIONS. 
          CURRENTLY, THE TOWN HAS A DIRECTOR MANAGING TOURISM EFFORTS AND THE VISITOR CENTER OPERATIONS, WHICH IS FULLY FUNDED BY THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL. 
          THIS INCLUDES PROMOTING TOURISM IN BOTH THE TOWN AND COUNTY AREAS. 
          AS WE UNDERSTAND VISITORS DO NOT RECOGNIZE OUR JURISDICTIONAL BOUNDARIES. 
          THIS WORK HAS LED TO A ROBUST SOCIAL MEDIA FOLLOWING, ATTRACTING NEW VISIT VISITORS TO THE VISIT VISITOR CENTER AND STRENGTHENING NEW AND EXISTING TOURISM PARTNERSHIPS. 
          THE CURRENT TOWN TOURISM DIRECTOR AND STAFF CONTINUE TO BUILD UPON THE GROWTH AND AWARENESS FROM THE ORIGINAL COLLABORATION FROM THE TOWN AND COUNTY, WHICH STARTED IN 2017. 
          AND WITH A RENEWED EFFORT TO WORK TOGETHER, OUR COMMUNITY CAN BENEFIT FROM A GREATER EMPHASIS ON TOURISM BY COLLECT COLLABORATING ON PLANNING AND FINANCING. 
          THIS IS, THIS IS THE PART, IS THERE INTEREST BY THE TOWN AND COUNTY TO IDENTIFY WAYS TO COLLABORATE ONCE AGAIN ON A JOINT TOURISM PROGRAM TO PROMOTE OUR COMMUNITY AS A DESTINATION. 
          SO WE WANTED TO ADD THIS TO THE LIAISON MEETING BECAUSE, UM, WE RECOGNIZE THAT THAT WHAT'S GOING ON AT THE VISITOR CENTER, YOU KNOW, I SAY LIZZIE, LIZZIE AND THE STAFF THERE, UM, THEY DO PROMOTE THINGS IN THE TOWN AND COUNTY. 
          WE RECENTLY, UH, HAD A PRESENTATION, UM, BY, UH, MS. LEWIS AND SHE SHARED THE DIFFERENT, LIKE BROCHURES AND THINGS THAT THEY'RE PASSING OUT, THINGS THAT THEY MADE, UM, TO GIVE TO VISITORS. 
          AND IT TRULY IS, UM, IT TRULY IS MARKETING AND PROMOTING BOTH THE TOWN AND COUNTY. 
          AND SO WE, WE THOUGHT WE WOULD BRING IT BACK  TO A LIAISON MEETING JUST TO SAY, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU ALL MAYBE WOULD WANNA ENTERTAIN? I KNOW THAT YOU ALL HAD, UM, THIS, YOU ALL HAD DISCUSSED A, A, A STAFFER TOURISM, AND YOU AND YOU PAUL HIT PAUSE ON THAT FOR A LITTLE WHILE. 
          AND I KNOW ORIGINALLY BACK IN 2023 WHEN WE WERE GONNA SEPARATE, WHEN WE DID KINDA SEPARATE AND DO OUR OWN THINGS, SO TO SPEAK, UM, THERE THERE WAS TALK ABOUT MAYBE THE COUNTY OPENING OF THEIR OWN VISITOR CENTER. 
          UM, AND REALLY JUST FOR THE CITIZEN'S SAKE, YOU KNOW, IS THERE A WAY THAT WE COULD DO THIS, UM, MORE EFFICIENTLY AND NOT, UM, AND SAVE MONEY. 
          THAT'S THE BEST WAY. 
          I, I KNOW THERE'S PROBABLY A BETTER WAY FOR ME TO SAY THAT. 
          I KNOW THAT THERE IS NO, IIII, I UNDERSTAND THAT EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE A, TO HAVE A A, A CONCERTED EFFORT ON BOTH THE TOWN AND THE COUNTY, I THINK WOULD BE, IT'D BE A, A SMART MOVE. 
          YOU KNOW, I, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS, RIGHT. 
          UNDERSTAND. 
          I CAN SPEAK FOR MYSELF. 
          UNDERSTAND IT MAKES SENSE OF WHAT, WHAT DO YOU THINK? UH, WELL, THE KEYBOARD IS THAT WE ONLY SPEAK FOR OURSELVES. 
          I KNOW WE DON'T SPEAK FOR THE BOARD. 
          UM, BUT SO START STARTING CONCEPTUALLY. 
          UM, IT'S 
          [00:10:01]
ABSOLUTELY SENSIBLE. 
          YEAH. 
          UH, SO AS FAR AS THE, THE GENERAL QUESTION, IS THERE INTEREST TO IDENTIFY WAYS TO COLLABORATE? AGAIN, I THINK ACROSS, I BELIEVE ACROSS THE BOARD THAT WOULD BE A YES. 
          UM, OF COURSE THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS AND SO, ABSOLUTELY. 
          SO, UM, AND THE DETAILS WERE ALWAYS WHERE I'M, I'M FULLY TRANSPARENT PERSON, EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT ABOUT ME. 
          THAT'S WHERE THINGS BROKE DOWN BEFORE WAS SOME OF THE DETAILS. 
          BUT I ALSO THINK TOO, THAT SINCE THAT TIME, UM, YOU KNOW, SINCE THE TIME THERE'S BEEN A LITTLE DISTANCE AND MAYBE THERE'S A MORE OF A RIGHT INTEREST TO WORK WELL IN TERMS OF, OF WHAT I HEAR AND PEOPLE I TALK TO. 
          'CAUSE ABOUT SIX MONTHS AGO, UM, I, I MADE A PRESENTATION ABOUT KICKSTARTING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND, UH, YOU KNOW, QUITE A FEW PEOPLE CONTACTED ME. 
          AND, UH, IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A FAIRLY COMMON SENTIMENT THAT PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF, OF THIS AREA DON'T DISCERN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WARREN COUNTY AND FRONT ROYAL. 
          SO, UM, IF, IF WE ARE INTENT ON PRESERVING THAT SEPARATION, THEN WE'RE GONNA SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES. 
          AND AS A, AS A TWO ORGANIZATIONS ARE GONNA END UP BEING LESS THAN ONE WORKING TOGETHER. 
          UM, SO I, I DO BELIEVE THAT'S A COMMON THEME, ESPECIALLY IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TYPE, PEOPLE THINKING, WHAT, WHY ARE WE BOTH HAVING DEPARTMENTS? UM, SO AGAIN, DEVIL BEING IN THE DETAILS, BUT I THINK THAT THE COUNTY, UH, TOP REVENUE, YOU KNOW, NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED AS PART OF THE KITTY, SO TO SPEAK. 
          MM-HMM . 
          UM, AND YOU KNOW, I, OBVIOUSLY MRS. KOHLERS IS, IS INVOLVED A LOT WITH THE TOURISM COMMITTEE THAT, THAT IS, IS MAKING EFFORTS IN THE COUNTY. 
          UM, BUT I, I THINK, UH, THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN LOOKING AT HUMAN RESOURCES, UM, THERE'S A, A A, THERE'S GOING TO BE MERIT IN CONSIDERING HOW, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE HUMAN RESOURCES, 'CAUSE THERE'S RESOURCES, SOME OF 'EM ARE HUMAN RESOURCES STAFF AND OTHERS ARE MONEY CAPITAL. 
          UM, AND THERE ARE, UH, I THINK OPPORTUNITIES TO SHARE THAT INSTEAD OF DUPLICATE IT. 
          UM, AND THAT A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERATION NEEDS TO BE MADE FOR CAPITAL PROJECTS THAT ARE TOURISM RELATED. 
          AND I, I'VE BEEN OPEN ABOUT THIS. 
          I'VE PRESENTED IT, UH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, ECONOMIC FEASIBILITY OF A, OF A SPORTSPLEX THAT WOULD DRAW SPORTS TOURISM HERE, FOR EXAMPLE. 
          UM, ALSO, YOU KNOW, BROUGHT OUT THAT THE IDEA OF A CONFERENCE CENTER. 
          SO THOSE ARE CAPITAL PROJECTS, BUT THEY'RE TOURISM RELATED. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO, AND I HAVE THE, THE IDEA, I HAVE A GENERAL CONCEPTION OF, OF TOURISM BEING AN, AN ELEMENT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. 
          UM, I UNDERSTAND FROM, I'VE BEEN TOLD, YOU KNOW, WELL, THEY'RE SEPARATE, BUT, BUT I, I THINK THEY'RE RELATED HEAVILY. 
          AND, UH, SO THAT IS A, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LATER ITEM ON THE AGENDA ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN WHICH I CAN CAN KIND OF EXPAND ON THAT. 
          BUT, UM, SO I WOULD SAY THAT, UH, JUST IN GENERAL, I THINK, I BELIEVE EVERYONE ON THE BOARD IS INTERESTED IN ECONOMIC EFFICIENCY AND GETTING BACK ON THE SAME TEAM, UM, AS TO WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. 
          UH, I HAVE, I I HAVE LATER IN THE AGENDA SOME SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT. 
          YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT IS JUST LIKE THE OLD, UH, SOME OF THE PREVIOUS, UH, UH, PHILOSOPHERS HAVE SAID THE HOLD IS GREATER THAN THE SUM OF THE PARTS. 
          AND SO IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, TWO DIFFERENT, UH, UH, UM, EFFORTS, YOU KNOW, IF WE COMBINE THOSE EFFORTS, I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE EVEN EVEN GREATER THAN THAT. 
          YEP. 
          WELL, AND THE THING ABOUT IT IS, AT LEAST WITH TOURISM, LIKE YES, THERE'S THE DOWNTOWN AND THERE OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE FESTIVALS AND, AND, AND THEY'RE PROMOTING THAT. 
          BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE RECREATIONAL THINGS THAT, THAT AT THE VISITOR'S CENTER, THEY'RE TELLING, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING IN THERE AND THE THINGS THEY'RE PROMOTING, THEY'RE IN THE COUNTY MM-HMM . 
          YOU KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW. 
          YEAH. 
          IT'S, AND HIKING AT ALL. 
          YEAH. 
          THERE'S NO MUTUAL EXCLUSIVITY. 
          YEAH. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND, AND WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WE HAVE THE, THE, THE BREWERY AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT THAT ALSO GOES ON IN THE COUNTY. 
          SO, SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE MAY BE SOME INTEREST THAT, THAT WE COULD AT LEAST TALK I DON'T, I'M, I'M SITTING, AS YOU WERE TALKING, I WAS TRYING TO THINK ABOUT LIKE, NEXT STEPS. 
          WOULD THE BEST THING TO DO WOULD BE TO HAVE OUR STAFF GET TOGETHER. 
          WOULD THE BEST THING TO DO WOULD BE TO MAYBE, UM, HAVE LIZZIE MEET WITH THE COUNTY TOURISM BOARD. 
          I, YOU KNOW, I IF, AND WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THAT DECISION TONIGHT, BUT WHAT I DON'T WANT TO DO IS WE ARE SITTING HERE GOING, 
          [00:15:01]
YEAH, THIS IS A GREAT IDEA. 
          AND THEN WE GET BACK TOGETHER IN JANUARY AND SAY, OKAY, THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. 
          WHAT DO WE WANNA DO? SO, YOU KNOW, LIKE MAYBE THINKING, YOU KNOW, THAT DO, DO EITHER OF YOU GENTLEMEN HAVE A SUGGESTION OF LIKE, WHAT COULD BE A, A NEXT STEP KIND OF THING TO DO? I, I MEAN, I THINK THAT STAFF CAN OBVIOUSLY TAKE THIS INITIATIVE AND PUT FORTH A DRAFT PLAN. 
          I THINK, UH, I HAVE SEEN DR. 
          JAMESON TO MENTION THAT. 
          YEP. 
          UH, A LATER ITEM DOES INVOLVE SOME OF THIS DISCUSSION IN THERE. 
          UM, BUT I THINK WORKING WITH, OBVIOUSLY LIZZIE WHO'S DOING A LOT OF THIS NOW, AND SHE CAN GIVE YOU THAT REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE OF WHAT THEY'RE FEELING DOWN AT THE VISITOR CENTER AS OF THIS AFTERNOON, IS GONNA BE A VALUABLE PART OF THAT DISCUSSION. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, AND TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON IN THE PAST, BUT TO ALLOW STAFF TO LOOK AT A PLAN BASED ON TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION AND SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED, I THINK ARE WORTH EXPLORING. 
          I I THINK THAT THAT'D BE A, A WISE WAY TO, GOD'S GONNA SUGGEST THAT, UH, THAT WE HAND IT OVER TO, UH, BOTH ADMINISTRATORS AND, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND THE, AND THE TOWN MANAGER, AND HAVE THEM KIND OF PUT TOGETHER SOME TYPE OF A, UH, YOU KNOW, NEXT STEPS AND THEN, AND THEN BRING IT BACK. 
          YEAH, EXACTLY. 
          UH, IF I MAY, MR. CHAIRMAN AND MAYOR AS WELL, JUST, UH, I, I ECHO OBVIOUSLY, UH, THE, UH, MANAGER'S, UH, SENTIMENTS, BUT, UH, MY ONLY QUESTION AS, AS THE NEW GUY ON THE BLOCK TOO, TO ALL THIS IS, UM, UH, I THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE. 
          UM, I GUESS MY QUESTION AT THIS POINT IS WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF, OF THE UNDERSTANDING OF BOTH PARTIES, THE TOWN AND THE COUNTY, IS IT THE UNDERSTANDING OR IS IT THE, THE INTENT OR THE INTEREST MOVING FORWARD TO, UH, TO HAVE TWO SEPARATE, UH, YOU KNOW, INVOLVEMENTS RELATIVE TO ONE BEING TOURISM, ONE BEING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT? OR IS THERE AN INTEREST OF, OF LOOKING AT THOSE CONCEPTS TOGETHER? UH, I GUESS IS MY QUESTION IN ALL OF THIS. 
          AND I GUESS MY, MY WHOLE POINT IN ASKING THAT IS, YOU KNOW, UH, IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR STAFF TO GET SOME DIRECTION ON THAT POINT TO BEGIN WITH, UH, SO THAT WE CAN AS STAFF, UH, WORK TO PUT TOGETHER RECOMMENDATIONS AND, AND START TO KIND OF TACKLE THAT. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE IF, IF, IF IT'S THE INTENT, IF OF THE PARTIES TO KEEP THEM AS SEPARATE SORT OF, UM, UH, DEVELOPMENTS, UH, TOURISM AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, THAT OBVIOUSLY WOULD TAKE A CERTAIN PATH. 
          UM, BUT IF WE'RE, UH, ATTEMPTING TO PUT THEM TOGETHER, UM, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY ANOTHER, UH, PATH. 
          SO THAT WOULD BE KIND OF GOOD DIRECTION, AND AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, AS NEW GUY ON THE BLOCK, UM, TO ALL THAT. 
          AND MAYBE WHEN WE GET TO THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PART LATER IN THE AGENDA, WE CAN TALK ABOUT, I WAS GONNA SAY, MY, MY TAKE ON IT IS ACTUALLY A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. 
          I, I THINK I WOULD, THAT THE, THE TOWN COUNCIL AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS NEED TO DETERMINE WHAT THE STRATEGY'S GONNA BE AND THEN HAND IT OVER TO STAFF TO IMPLEMENT. 
          I DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO HAND IT OVER TO STAFF TO COME UP WITH IDEAS AND BRING BACK TO US. 
          SO I THINK IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE THAT AND, AND GRIND IT OUT, COME TO AN AGREEMENT ON IT, AND THEN IMPLEMENT WITH STAFF. 
          AND I, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. 
          THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY IS I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO GET STAFF, AND WHEN I SAY STAFF TOO, LIKE, I THINK LIKE LIZZIE LEWIS, WHO IS OUR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, WHO, WHO ACTUALLY, EVEN WHEN YOU ALL DID HAVE STAFF THAT WAS WORKING WITH TOURISM, LIZ, LIZZIE WAS HELPING HER TOO, AND HELPING WITH GRANTS AND, YOU KNOW, JUST BASICALLY BEING A MENTOR KIND OF THING. 
          SO I THINK THE ONLY REASON, I GUESS WE JUST HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT VISION IS. 
          IS THIS SOMETHING WHERE, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T WANNA OVERSPEAK. 
          UM, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE SAYING LIKE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE TOWN TAKES OVER, UM, THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PROMOTION AND MARKETING AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND THE COUNTY PAYS TOWARDS THAT, AND, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WE DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT WITH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. 
          I DON'T THINK WE'RE SAYING THAT. 
          RIGHT. 
          I THINK WE'RE SAYING THAT WE AS TWO BOARDS RIGHT, NEED TO MAP OUT WHAT STRATEGIES MAY MAKE SENSE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, AND AT NO, AND AT NO POINT, UH, DOES THAT MEAN THAT STAFF AREN'T INVOLVED? I MEAN, BUT RIGHT. 
          NO, I, WHEN YOU BROUGHT UP, YOU KNOW, LIZZIE OF COURSE, BUT I JUST, I'M, I'M SIMPLY TRYING TO SAY OUR BOARD SHOULD DETERMINE DIRECTION AND NOT SORT OF SAY TO STAFF, GO FIGURE SOMETHING ELSE YEP. 
          AND BRING US YOUR IDEAS. 
          SO THAT IS ALL I'M SAYING. 
          NO. 
          UM, SO, SO WE WOULD NEED TO, TO, TO 
          [00:20:01]
BE ABLE TO DO THAT, WE'RE EITHER GONNA, ONE, HAVE TO HAVE A JOINT MEETING, OR WE'RE TWO GONNA HAVE TO BE PEOPLE GO BACK, GET THOUGH THE PERSPECTIVE OF THEIR INDIVIDUAL BOARDS AND COME BACK TOGETHER. 
          WELL, I, IF I MAY, UM, YEAH, I THINK THAT IT'S A GOOD IDEA FOR MEMBERS OF OUR BOARD, OF YOUR COUNCIL AND OUR BOARD TO, UH, BASICALLY KIND OF CREATE MANY PROPOSALS AND, AND TO CIRCULATE THEM AND TALK ABOUT THEM. 
          AND, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE, THERE'S SOME VALUE IN MEETINGS, BUT ALSO MEETINGS OFTEN ARE JUST MEETINGS. 
          MM-HMM . 
          AND, UH, SO DEVELOPING IDEAS AND FLOATING 'EM OUT INTO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN WHERE ALL THE COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE THEM AND ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS HAVE THEM, AND THEN DISCUSSIONS CAN HAPPEN. 
          UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, OTHER PEOPLE CAN READ THEM AND, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST KIND OF GET THE FLAVOR OF, OF WHAT PEOPLE THINK. 
          UM, SO YES, MEETINGS, BUT, BUT I THINK GETTING PEOPLE TO PUT CONCRETE IDEAS FORWARD, THAT, THAT EITHER GET TRACTION OR DON'T GET TRACTION, THOSE BECOME THE THINGS THAT GET TRACTION, BECOME THE THINGS THAT WE TALK ABOUT IN MEETINGS AND MAKE PROGRESS ON THAT. 
          WOULD, THAT'S MY SUGGESTION. 
          UH, OKAY. 
          SO, SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THE DIRECTION IS IS THAT LIKE OUR COUNCIL WOULD TALK AND WE WILL PUT IT ON, I'LL PUT IT ON A BOARD, UH, WORK SESSION AGENDA, LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THIS, GATHER UP SOME IDEAS ABOUT WHAT, WHAT WE MIGHT SEE OR WHAT COULD BE POSSIBILITIES, DIFFERENT PROPOSALS, AND YOU ALL WOULD DO THE SAME THING. 
          AND IS THE IDEA THAT IN JANUARY WHEN WE MEET FOR THE NEXT LIAISON, MEAN TO BRING IT BACK? OR I, I, IS IT, DO WE WANNA DO IT SOONER? I, I THINK IT'S, I DON'T THINK YOU NEED, WE CAN WAIT THREE MONTHS. 
          OKAY. 
          I MEAN, I WOULD SAY, UH, FOUR WEEKS MIGHT BE ENOUGH TIME TO OKAY. 
          GATHER, YOU KNOW, THESE, THESE, UH, I GUESS I'LL CALL 'EM MINI PROPOSALS, BUT WHATEVER CONCRETE IDEAS, MAYBE THEY'RE ONE PAGE BRIEFS OF IDEAS PEOPLE HAVE AND OKAY. 
          YOU KNOW, AND THEN THERE CAN BE CROSS CROSS DISCUSSIONS. 
          I MEAN, WE CAN TALK, OUR MEMBERS CAN TALK TO YOUR MEMBERS. 
          YOUR MEMBERS CAN TALK TO OUR MEMBERS. 
          OKAY. 
          I MEAN, UH, NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE, YOU KNOW, 10 RIGHT. 
          10 PEOPLE, 12 PEOPLE IN A MEETING. 
          BUT THOSE ARE, ARE RATHER DIFFICULT TO GET GOOD COMMUNICATIONS IN. 
          I GOTCHA. 
          UM, BUT I DO THINK THAT, UM, I MEAN, ANYTIME IF I, IF I WRITE SOME IDEAS DOWN AND I EMAIL 'EM TO YOU, YEAH. 
          THAT IS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT. 
          YEP. 
          THAT'S FINE. 
          BUT NO ONE'S GONNA GET IT UNLESS THEY FOIA THAT. 
          BUT, SO MAYBE THERE'S A WAY TO, I'M, I'M REALLY, REALLY WINGING IT HERE AND NOW. 
          BUT I'M MEAN, LIKE, DO HAVE IDEAS LISTED ON, ON THE WEBSITES OR SOMETHING. 
          I MEAN, SO, SO THEY SOME, SOME WAY TO, SOME WAY TO BE ABLE TO SOCIALIZE. 
          TO SOCIALIZE IT, SOCIALIZE IT. 
          BECAUSE I KEEP SAYING, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S BENEFICIAL FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO PICK THE PHONE AND CALL YOU OR CALL JOSH AND SAY, WHAT DO YOU THINK? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT? AND NOBODY ELSE THAT'S REALLY LEAN ON THAT CONVERSATION. 
          IF I WRITE MY, MY IDEA DOWN ON A PAGE AND EMAIL IT TO EVERYBODY, THAT IS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND, UH, IF IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA, , THEN IT DOESN'T NEED TO END UP ON A, ON A, ON A WEBSITE. 
          SO THERE COULD BE A CUING PROCESS OR SOMETHING. 
          I, I CHIME IN ON THAT. 
          UH, I LIKE THAT IDEA. 
          I JUST THINK THAT THE MOST DIFFICULT PART IS GONNA BE STARTING IT OUT. 
          I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF PLATFORM. 
          YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO HAVE A, WE NEED TO COME UP WITH A, WITH A BASELINE OR, OR OUTLINE OF WHAT WE WANNA TALK ABOUT AND INITIALLY KEEP REFERRING TO THE NEXT CORRECT. 
          THERE'S OTHER ITEM ON THE AGENDA. 
          YEAH. 
          AND THAT'S, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S, UM, 'CAUSE IF NOT, WE'RE JUST GO BACK AND FORTH FOR ETERNITY AND THEN NEXT LIAISON MEETING, WE'RE GONNA BE LIKE, HEY, WHAT'S YOUR UPDATE ON THAT? RIGHT. 
          WELL, I CAN, AND QUITE FRANKLY, I DON'T WANNA COME TO, I MEAN, I JUST, I DON'T THINK EITHER SIDE, BUT, YOU KNOW, IF ONE SIDE COMES UP TO THE RESOLUTION, IT GOES BACK AND FORTH FIVE OR SIX TIMES. 
          YEAH. 
          AND NOTHING GETS DECIDED THEN, THEN WE'RE GOOD. 
          BUT, I MEAN, BUT I THINK I, I AGREE. 
          I MEAN, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE DRIVEN BY US BECAUSE, UH, AND I'M JUST GONNA POINT THIS OUT FROM THE LAST AGREEMENT THAT WAS IN PLACE. 
          AND, AND, UH, AND I THINK BOTH SIDES AGREED UPON THIS. 
          I MEAN, THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS WAS A THIRD PARTY INVOL INVOLVEMENT THAT DIDN'T INVOLVE NEITHER. 
          I MEAN, WE HAD IT CONTRACTED OUT, YOU KNOW, LIKE TO JLL, YOU KNOW, AND AGAIN, IT WAS JUST THE FACT THAT IT WAS AN OUTSIDE PARTY. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD, YOU KNOW, THEY'D GONE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE LIKE ANY OTHER CORPORATION, THEY'RE GONNA GO THROUGH CHANGES AS, UH, INTERNALLY, YOU KNOW, WITH STAFFING AND WHATNOT. 
          AND I THINK ADMIT, THEY HAD SEEMED TO ADMIT THAT THEY, MAYBE THEY'RE NO LONGER A GOOD FIT FOR US ANYWAYS. 
          'CAUSE IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS A GOOD, IT WAS A CLEAN CUT, IT SEEMED LIKE FROM, FROM THEIR POINT. 
          UM, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, I, WE AS A TOWN HAVE, HAVE TAKEN HER TORCH, OF COURSE. 
          AND, AND HAVE DONE, I THINK DONE WELL WITH TOURISM. 
          BUT, UH, BUT TO THE POINT MADE INTO THE, INTO THE SUMMARY HERE, YOU KNOW, OUR VISITORS, THEY DON'T, WHEN THEY GET HERE, THEY DON'T DISTINGUISH BETWEEN US AND THE COUNTY. 
          YOU KNOW, IT'S WHEN, WHEN THEY'RE IN TOWN. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT, UH, FRONT ROYALS, YOU KNOW, IS IN PART OF WARREN COUNTY WHERE IT IS FOR, FOR, UH, FOR REASONS. 
          'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO GET THROUGH THE COUNTY TO, TO, TO GET HERE. 
          SO, 
          [00:25:01]
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, BUT, BUT, UH, BUT I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME KEY POINTS THAT WE CAN START OUT WITH, YOU KNOW, START, START OUT WITH AN OUTLINE. 
          AND MAYBE THAT CAN BE DONE SOONER THAN LATER. 
          IT HELPS PICK UP THE PROCESS. 
          BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE ABOVE BLAH ELSE, THAT WE GET STARTED ON THE RIGHT FOOT. 
          I THINK THAT'S, I WON'T BE SHY ABOUT PUTTING MY IDEA OUT THERE AND IT COULD BE SHREDDED, OR IT COULD BE, OR IT COULD BE WORKED WITH. 
          BUT, BUT EITHER WAY I WILL PUT SOMETHING ON THE TABLE AND, AND, UH, YEAH, I THINK, THINK ATTITUDE ARAC FROM, OR DISCARDED, BUT, BUT THAT INTERVIEW, YEAH. 
          SO THE QUESTION WAS, IS THERE INTEREST BY THE TOWN AND COUNTY TO IDENTIFY WAYS TO COLLABORATE ONCE AGAIN ON JOIN TOURISM PROGRAM, MAR OR COMMUNITY AS A DESTINATION? AND I BELIEVE THE ANSWER IS YES. 
          YES. 
          SO WE, WE GOT OUR ANSWER YES. 
          MM-HMM . 
          AND THEN WE'LL, WE'LL, SOONER RATHER THAN LATER. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, FOUR WEEK TIMEFRAME, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          AT LEAST GET SOME IDEAS TOGETHER AND, AND, AND BRING IT BACK. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO ITEM NUMBER FOUR IS MCKAY SPRINGS. 
          AND THAT WAS BY THE TOWN. 
          IF YOU DON'T MIND, WHAT I THINK WOULD BE INTELLIGENT WOULD BE, BECAUSE THAT KINDA, IT, IT KIND OF COMES UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF SOME OTHER IDEAS. 
          I THINK WE OUGHT TO JUST WAIT ON THAT AND MOVE IT DOWN THE LIST WHEN IT'S CLOSER TO, TO THE OTHER ITEMS ON THE AGENDA, IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT. 
          THAT'S FINE. 
          I, I THINK, DON'T YOU THINK SO THAT I DO MAKES MORE SENSE. 
          UM, ALL RIGHT. 
          LET'S SEE. 
          I'M GOING THROUGH ALL THE ONES THAT THE TOWN BROUGHT, SO, SO, UM, NO, ITEM NUMBER FIVE WAS TAXES. 
          UM, THAT SOUNDS FUNNY, RIGHT? TAXES, NOBODY LIKES TAXES. 
          BUT, UM, SO THIS, UM, AND AGAIN, I'M JUST READING THE SUMMARY. 
          THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN THE SUBJECT OF PREVIOUS LIAISON MEETINGS REGARDING THE DELAY IN RECEIVING TAX INFORMATION, WHICH RESULTS IN MOVING THE DEADLINE FOR RECEIVING PAYMENT. 
          THE LOCALITIES NEED TIME ONCE THE TEXTBOOKS ARE RECEIVED TO IMPORT DATA, PROCESS INFORMATION, PROOF THE MAILINGS, THEN COORDINATE THE ACTUAL MAILING OF TAX BILLS. 
          FOLLOWING THE DISCUSSIONS FROM PREVIOUS MEETINGS IN MARCH OF 2024, THE TOWN PROACTIVELY AMENDED THEIR CODE TO MOVE THE TAX PAYMENT DUE DATE TO JUNE 20TH. 
          UM, IT AND I, IT SAYS HERE THE COUNTY'S REMAINS ON JUNE 5TH WITH PENALTIES AND INTEREST HAVING BEEN EXTENDED MULTIPLE TIMES OVER THE LAST S SEVERAL YEARS. 
          AND I, I, I DON'T PROFESS TO KNOW EXACTLY, UM, UH, E EXACTLY WHAT HA WHAT YOU ALL HAVE DONE. 
          I KNOW THAT YOU DIDN'T LIKE, UM, IT'S STILL SET ON THE BILL THAT IT NEEDED TO BE THERE BY JUNE 5TH, BUT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY GOT ANY LATE FEES UNTIL AFTER A CERTAIN TIME. 
          BUT, UM, SO, SO THE REASON WHY WE BROUGHT THIS, AND AGAIN, THIS WAS, THIS WAS ON THE JULY AGENDA, UM, THAT THE JULY LIAISON AGENDA, UM, AND, AND THE MEETING WAS CANCEL CANCELED THROUGH. 
          SOME OF THIS IS OLD INFORMATION, BUT THE TOWN SET THEIR TAX RATE ON APRIL 28TH. 
          AND THE COUNTY SET THEIR TAX RATE ON APRIL 1ST, BUT THEN ON MAY 12TH, UM, THE TOWN RECEIVED THE REAL ESTATE TAX BOOKS, UM, AND, UM, FROM THE COMMISSIONER OF THE REVENUE WITH A DECREASE IN VALUE. 
          AND THAT RESULTED IN A DECREASE IN REVENUE FOR THE TOWN OF APPROXIMATELY, YOU KNOW, $472,000. 
          BASICALLY HALF A MILLION FOR THE TOWN AM. 
          AND THIS IS NOT ON THE SUMMARY, BUT, SO THE WAY THAT IMPACTED US WAS WE , WE ACTUALLY LOWERED TAXES ON THE CITIZENS THIS YEAR BECAUSE WITH THE EQUALIZATION, WE THOUGHT WE WERE EQUALIZING IT, BUT BECAUSE WE WEREN'T GETTING, ANYWAY, LONG STORY SHORT THAT, THAT, SO WE ACTUALLY WERE GETTING LESS MONEY IN. 
          SO THE TOWN IS REQUESTING A JOINT MEETING WITH MEMBERS FROM THE TOWN COUNCIL AND COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, THE TREASURER, THE COMMISSIONER OF THE REVENUE, AND ANY RECOMMENDED STAFF TO REFINE THE PROCESS OF RECEIVING THE TAX BOOKS THAT WOULD ALLOW ENOUGH TIME TO APPROPRIATELY BUDGET AND SEND NOTICE OUT TO TAXPAYERS. 
          AND THE AGENDA SAID THIS COULD BE A SEPARATE MEETING, OR AT THE OCTOBER LIAISON MEETING, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE AT THE OCTOBER LIAISON MEETING. 
          SO WE DIDN'T, BUT, UM, WE JUST WOULD REALLY, WE WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE US GET TOGETHER AND JUST REALLY, I WON'T SAY CLEAN UP THE PROCESS BECAUSE MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS. 
          BUT, UM, WE, WE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WE WERE IN A PICKLE THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT WORKED OUT. 
          AND I DON'T THINK IT WAS ANYBODY'S FAULT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. 
          BUT JUST IF THERE'S A WAY FOR US TO, UM, WORK ON LIKE HOW WE COULD IMPROVE THE PROCESS SO THAT, THAT WE WOULD HAVE ENOUGH TIME, UM, TO SEND OUT OUR TAX BILLS. 
          'CAUSE, AND MR. WILSON, I'M GONNA ASK YOU THIS. 
          SO WE, WE GET THEM FROM THE COUNTY, AND THEN IT TAKES US A LITTLE WHILE FOR US TO SEND OUT OUR BILLS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. 
          SO YOUR ALL'S SITUATION MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT BECAUSE YOU HAVE 'EM, YOU HAVE AVAILABLE, YOU CAN SEND IT OUT, BUT THERE'S LIKE A, FOR LIKE, 
          [00:30:01]
LAG TIME FOR US TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. 
          SO, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE MOVED THE DATE BACK BECAUSE, UM, WE WERE ALWAYS REALLY PUSHING IT TO GET THEM OUT BY JUNE 5TH. 
          UM, SO WE MOVED IT BACK TO JUNE 20TH. 
          WE COULDN'T MOVE IT BACK ANY FURTHER BECAUSE THE FISCAL YEAR STARTS AGAIN, THEN ON JULY 1ST. 
          SO, UM, YEAH. 
          LET ME ASK, UH, MS. SAUERS, WOULD YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT YOU COULD, YOU COULD, UH, INCLUDE ON THIS OR TO, TO ELUCIDATE TO ELUCIDATE THIS GRAND BODY? UM, IT'S ALWAYS A RUSH TO GET THESE TAX BOOKS DONE. 
          UM, WE TRY TO PREPARE TO HAVE EVERYTHING READY BY THE TIME THE TAX RATES ARE SET. 
          IT'S NOT THAT MUCH OF A TURNAROUND ON A NON REASSESSMENT YEAR TO GET THESE BOOKS DONE. 
          ONCE WE HAVE THE RATES, THE PROBLEM IS, IS WHEN WE HAVE A REASSESSMENT, HMM, 20 THREES, REASSESSMENT WAS DELAYED, 20 FIVES WAS DELAYED. 
          SO WE DON'T GET THOSE RECORDS ON TIME. 
          WE CAN'T PRODUCE ESTIMATES CORRECTLY. 
          AND IT WAS HARD TO TRY TO DO AN ESTIMATE FOR THE TOWN BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE THOSE RECORDS OVER ON OUR BRIGHT SOFTWARE MM-HMM. 
          TO WHERE WE COULD RUN AN EDIT BOOK. 
          SO IT'S KIND OF HARD TO ESTIMATE WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE RECORDS WHERE YOU RUN YOUR TAX BOOKS. 
          ARE MS. SERS, I WANNA SAY SHERRY, BUT I'M GONNA SAY MS. SERS TO, UM, IS THAT BECAUSE THE ASSESSOR DIDN'T, I MEAN, I'M NOT, AGAIN, THIS IS, I I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A FEEL FOR, SO BASICALLY YOU DIDN'T GET THE INFORMATION FROM THE PERSON THAT WAS THE COMPANY THAT WAS HIRED TO DO THE REASSESSMENTS. 
          YOU DIDN'T GET THEM IN ENOUGH TIME FOR IT TO, TO PICK UP, TO BE ABLE TO COME ANY SOONER. 
          RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          AND, AND IN 2323, IT WAS A DELAY, BUT I DO FEEL LIKE 25 WAS A GREATER DELAY, RIGHT? YES. 
          WAS THAT BECAUSE THERE WERE MORE, WELL, I'M GONNA PREDICT THAT. 
          WAS IT BECAUSE THE ASSESSMENTS WENT UP SO MUCH THAT THERE WERE MORE APPEALS AND THE BOARD OF THAT STUFF? THERE WAS RIGHT. 
          MANY APPEALS IN 23. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, THE ASSESSOR APPEALS, WHICH THEY CALL THE INFORMAL APPEALS. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, WE HAD, UH, RIGHT MANY ALSO IN 25, THE BOE APPEALS, WE HAD 300 AND SOME. 
          MM. 
          SO, AND SOMETIMES WE'VE HAD UNDER A HUNDRED, LESS THAN A HUNDRED. 
          SO DO WE, DO WE, NOT WE, YOU ALL, UM, 'CAUSE YOU ALL HIRE THE, UM, THE REASSESSMENT FIRM, DO YOU ALL HAVE ANY ABILITY TO GIVE THEM A, TO, TO UM, SET A DEADLINE? NOT SET A DEADLINE, BUT TO BACK IT UP TO BE LIKE, HEY, INSTEAD OF US GETTING THE BOOKS IN MAY THEY NEED TO BE IN BY MARCH. 
          I, I, I PUSHED THAT ISSUE OKAY. 
          THE WHOLE TIME. 
          OKAY. 
          THE CONTRACT SAID THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO COMPLETE IT BY DECEMBER 31ST. 
          AND DID, DO THEY, IS THERE ANYTHING BUILT INTO THE CONTRACT THAT THAT KIND LIKE, UM, KIND OF LIKE IF A BUILDING DOESN'T GET DONE, THEY GET FINED SO MUCH. 
          YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT? YOU KNOW, LIKE A CONTRACTOR. 
          I'M JUST SAYING, I WONDER IF THERE'S ANY PENALTIES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY. 
          UM, BUT I JUST WONDER IF THAT WOULD'VE, I WONDER IF THAT WOULD'VE MOTIVATED OR INSPIRED THEM TO GET IT DONE ANY QUICKER. 
          WE ALSO HAD NEW SOFTWARE OKAY. 
          FOR 25. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, SO THAT COME INTO PLAY WITH THIS. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, SO, SO MAYBE SOME THINGS, AND THIS WAS A NEW REASER YES. 
          NEW REASSESSMENT FIRM. 
          RIGHT. 
          NEW SOFTWARE. 
          BUT IT'S THE SAME REASSESSMENT FIRM THAT'S GONNA BE HERE IN 27, UNLESS SOMETHING CHANGES THAT YOU'RE NOT DOING IT EVERY TWO YEARS. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO IT'S, IT'S THE SAME, SAME COMP, SAME FIRM, SAME FORM FOR SOFTWARE. 
          WON'T BE NEW. 
          BUT, UM, SO YEAH. 
          THAT'S, I DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS OR ANYTHING THAT THIS COULD BE A REALLY LONG DISCUSSION, ? YES. 
          WE'RE NOT GONNA OPEN THE CAN ABOUT THE ASSESSOR AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. 
          OH, NO, NO, NO, NO. 
          I, I JUST, NO, I I, I, I'M JUST, I'M JUST, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHERE WE'RE COMING FROM BECAUSE WE, WE SET OUR BUDGET AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN WE WERE SHORT 500 THOU, ALMOST $500,000 IN THE TOWN'S BUDGET. 
          THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY. 
          THIS, THIS WAS, THIS WAS HEATED. 
          THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY BEING BY BUDGET. 
          THIS WAS, THIS WAS HEATED ON OUR, IN OUR DISCUSSION FOR YEAH. 
          FOR BUDGETS. 
          WE, WE WERE, I WOULDN'T SAY NECESSARILY SPLIT, 
          [00:35:01]
BUT WE WERE, UH, AND, AND JUSTIFIABLY WE, IT WAS, IT WAS CONTENTIOUS FOR US. 
          SO NOT, NOT CONTENTIOUS. 
          WELL, ANGRY AT ANYWAY. 
          NO, IT WAS, WAS CONTENTIOUS AMONGST WHAT OUR TAX RATES WERE GONNA BE. 
          CORRECT. 
          YOU'RE RIGHT. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. 
          IT WAS. 
          BUT IT, IT WAS, YOU KNOW, LET'S, IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, PAINT RAINBOWS ALL OVER IT. 
          IT WAS, IT WAS TOUGH. 
          YOU KNOW, SO IT WAS TOUGH TO TRY TO EXPLAIN IT, YOU KNOW, AND IT WAS TOUGH TO SAY THAT WE LOWERED TAXES AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, HEY, YOU KNOW, THINKING WE HAD THE MONEY AND COME UP HALF A MILLION DOLLAR SHORT A COUPLE WEEKS LATER. 
          SO YEAH. 
          I MEAN IT'S, YEAH. 
          IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT, WE WENT TOO LOW UNFAIR TO ASK THE QUESTION. 
          THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. 
          SO. 
          WELL, IF I COULD SAY, UM, I THINK THIS IS ADMINISTRATIVE, RIGHT? I MEAN, THIS IS WHAT IS AFFECTING YOUR PROCESS. 
          IT DOESN'T AFFECT THE TREASURER, DOES IT? THIS DOESN'T INVOLVE THE TREASURER, DOES IT? THEY RECEIVE THE MONEY, RIGHT? I MEAN, WE'RE NOT THE REASSESSMENT. 
          WELL, I MEAN THE, THE ISSUE THAT YOU ARE, THAT YOU WERE DEALING WITH, WE JUST NEED TO GET THE TAX RIGHT. 
          WE JUST NEED TO GET THE TAX BOOKS. 
          SO THE REASON WHY WE WANTED TO INVOLVE THE TREASURER IS SO WE COULD HAVE BE ON THE SAME PAGE FOR A BILL TO GO UP TOGETHER. 
          IT'S NICE TO HAVE. 
          OKAY. 
          SURE. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT, BUT I'M, I'M JUST KIND OF, KIND OF THINKING THERE'S A RECOGNIZED PROBLEM BOTH IN THE COUNTY AND THE TOWN. 
          AND IT'S ADMIN, IT IS ADMINISTRATIVE, I THINK SO I'M, I'M JUST WONDERING, DO THE BOARDS NEED TO GET TOGETHER TO DISCUSS THIS? 'CAUSE WE, UH, I THINK OUR BOARD AGREES. 
          YEAH. 
          WE SHOULD, WE WOULD WANT OUR INTERNAL PROCESS TO BE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. 
          UM, MR. WILSON, DO YOU THIS, MR. JAMESON, YOU KNOW, THIS IS OUR TOWN FINANCE DIRECTOR. 
          I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE. 
          SO THE, UM, UH, AS WE MENTIONED, THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR SEVERAL YEARS. 
          AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE WERE LOOKING AT, UH, GOING BACK TO IT WAS WHEN THE TAX RATES WERE BEING SET, UH, TAX RATES WERE BEING SET A LITTLE LATE AND THAT WAS TO CAUSE THEM A DELAY. 
          SO I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS DOESN'T EVEN GO TO BOARD COUNCIL. 
          OKAY. 
          SO BASICALLY JUST TO MAKE, BASICALLY TO MAKE A SOONER A, A BOARD LEVEL DECISION ABOUT THE DATE THAT TAXES ARE SET. 
          CORRECT. 
          AND THIS MIGHT TIE INTO OUR, OUR BUDGETING SCHEDULE THIS YEAR OR PROPOSAL. 
          OUR BUDGETING CALENDAR IS MAKING AN EFFORT TO BRING THAT BACK QUITE A LOT. 
          SO THE ORDER SUPERVISORS DID SET THE RATES THIS YEAR EARLIER. 
          YOU SET 'EM ON APRIL 1ST. 
          YOU SET THE SANITARY DISTRICTS ON APRIL THE EIGHTH. 
          IT'S USUALLY NOT DONE UNTIL LIKE THE WEEK, THE 20TH. 
          SO YOU DID SET 'EM EARLIER, BUT WE WERE NOT READY BECAUSE OF THE REASSESSMENT. 
          YEAH. 
          HOW DOES THAT PLAY INTO, UM, UM, MR. WILSON'S CONCERNS? 'CAUSE WE SET THE RATES IN APRIL, EARLY APRIL. 
          WAS THAT, SHOULD THEY, CAN WE SET 'EM EARLIER? APRIL WAS GOOD THIS YEAR, BUT THEN THIS YEAR WAS ALSO WITH THE, UH, THE REASSESSMENTS. 
          SO, UH, HAD THE ISSUE WITH THE REASSESSMENT, NOT  PROBABLY WOULD'VE BEEN ON TIME FOR NORMAL. 
          NORMAL. 
          BUT YOU, YOU JUST WANT AT, AT A BOARD LEVEL TO, TO RESOLVE THAT. 
          WE WILL SET THOSE RATES EARLY. 
          I MEAN YEAH. 
          SOON BE CONSISTENT. 
          OKAY. 
          I'M JUST TRYING TO ASCERTAIN WHAT THE, WHAT THE BOARD'S FUNCTION IN, IN THESE MEETINGS IS. 
          BECAUSE WE ALL AGREE IT NEEDS TO BE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. 
          YES. 
          AND IT, AND YOU HAVE ADMINISTRATIVE PROBLEMS IS SOFTWARE AND A CONTRACTOR WHO DIDN'T DELIVER ON TIME AND ALL THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. 
          I WOULD SAY THOUGH,  AS A COUNTY CITIZEN TOO, THAT, UH, THAT WHOEVER IS DOING THE JOB SHOULD TRY TO DO IT AND GET IT HERE ON TIME. 
          WHOEVER THAT FIRM IS. 
          'CAUSE IT REALLY, YOU KNOW, IT THREW A WRENCH FOR US. 
          AND I'M, I KNOW FOR YOU ALL TOO, BECAUSE YOU ALL WERE LATE GETTING YOURS OUT AND THEN EVERYBODY, THE TREASURER'S OFFICE, LIKE PACKED AND THEN STUFF LIKE THAT. 
          SO I, YOUR BILLING, IT'S HARD, RIGHT? YOU HAVE, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY EXTRA TIME AT ALL. 
          RIGHT? RIGHT. 
          THERE'S, YEAH, THERE'S A VERY, I MEAN, WE'RE IN SCRAMBLED MODE FOR YEAH. 
          YEP. 
          NOW THE TREASURER DID CHANGE. 
          SHE OUTSOURCES THE TAX BILLS. 
          OKAY. 
          SO SHE SENDS FILES OUT TO A THIRD PARTY VENDOR TO DO THE TAX BILLS. 
          WE DON'T KNOW, DO 'EM HERE, PRINT THEM IN HOUSE. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, DID THAT CAUSE A DELAY TOO, JERRY? DO WE NO, WE USUALLY COMMUNICATE YES. 
          GET THOSE OUT TO, UH, SAID THAT WE USE THE SAME VENDOR AND WE HAVE THE VENDOR TRY TO SEND THEM OUT TOGETHER. 
          SO THAT WAY, YOU KNOW, A TOWN, CITIZENS COUNTY, BILL COUNTY UP, OR THE TOWN BILL, WE'RE NOT RECEIVING ALL THOSE CALLS. 
          SO THEY'RE COMING TO MAIL TOGETHER. 
          SO IT REALLY DOES NEED TO BE A, A PROCESS THAT'S YES. 
          YOU KNOW, BUT SHE'S CHANGED THE VENDORS. 
          SO IS SAME SHE DID, YES. 
          YES. 
          LAST YEAR OR NOW? FOR THIS ONE? THIS YEAR. 
          THIS YEAR. 
          OH, OKAY. 
          THE SEC THE, UH, DELINQUENT NOTICES WAS, WAS DONE BY THIS NEW COMPANY. 
          [00:40:01]
ALRIGHT. 
          SO, OKAY. 
          SECOND NOTICES BE DONE BY THAT. 
          SO IT DOESN'T, I, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE NEEDS TO BE ANOTHER MEETING. 
          I THINK, YOU KNOW, JUST MAYBE JUST EXPRESSING AND FIGURING OUT A WAY TO, I MEAN, IF IT'S OUT OF THE STAFF IN THIS COUNTY AND TOWN'S HANDS, IF IT'S OUT OF THEIR HANDS THAT THEY CAN'T, YOU KNOW, GET IT TO HAPPEN SOONER THAN IT IS WHAT IT IS. 
          BUT, BUT IT WAS, IT IS CHALLENGING. 
          SO, SO I, I THINK IT'S, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT, UH, WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THIS YEAR BECAUSE WITH ALL THE CHALLENGES THAT WE HAD LAST YEAR, YOU KNOW, HAVING A, A NEW ASSESSMENT, NEW SOFTWARE, THE, I THINK THAT THOSE, THAT THOSE WERE, UM, HOW WOULD YOU SAY, UM, UM, OH, UH, THOSE WERE, THOSE WERE OCCURRENCES THAT TYPICALLY WOULD NOT, YOU KNOW, HAPPEN. 
          AND, UH, AND EVEN THOUGH IT'S, IT'S A NEW ASSESSMENT YEAR, IT WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT WE'D DONE NEW ASSESSMENTS EVERY TWO YEARS. 
          AND I THINK ONCE WE, ONCE WE GET THE, THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE RHYTHM DOWN, I THINK IT'LL BE MUCH BETTER. 
          I AGREE. 
          I AGREE. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SO THE NEXT ONE WAS A TOWN ONE TOO. 
          UM, TOWN OF FRONT ROW FARMS PROPERTY. 
          AND AGAIN, THIS IS PROBABLY MORE FOR THE PUBLIC THAN IT IS. 
          UM, I, I, I THINK YOU GUYS PROBABLY ALREADY UNDERSTAND THIS, BUT, SO THE TOWN, THEY CALL IT THE FARM PROPERTY, BUT IT'S OFF OF LAKE MANASSAS AVENUE, IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT. 
          I KNOW YOU PROBABLY ARE. 
          SO THERE'S APPROXIMATELY 103 ACRES AND IT'S USED FOR A VARIETY OF BOTH PUBLIC AND PRIVATE OPERATIONS. 
          CURRENTLY THE FARM IS USED FOR A SOLAR POWER ARRAY, ENERGY SERVICES DEPARTMENT FACILITY, WHITE GOODS, METAL DROP OFF RECYCLING CONTAINERS, YARD WASTES, DROP OFF AREA, MULCH, PUBLIC SAFETY TRAINING AREA, AND GENERAL STORAGE SPACE. 
          MOST OF THE PROPERTY IS OPEN SPACE AND THE TOWN CONTRACTS HAY CUTTING SERVICES ON THE PROPERTY. 
          THE FARM CURRENTLY PROVIDES MULTIPLE SERVICES TO BOTH TOWN AND COUNTY RESIDENTS. 
          SO THIS, THIS IS THE PART THAT MAYBE EVERYBODY ISN'T AWARE. 
          SO, UM, METAL ITEMS CAN BE DROPPED OFF FOR FREE AT THE SITE, WHICH THE TOWN DELIVERS TO WINCHESTER EVERY TWO TO THREE WEEKS AND RECEIVES MONEY FOR THE SCRAP METAL. 
          WHITE GOODS, WHICH ARE APPLIANCES CAN BE DROPPED OFF FOR FREE. 
          SIMILAR TO THE SCRAP METAL GOODS THAT CONTAIN FREE ON, REQUIRE A $15 TICKET TO BE PURCHASED AT TOWN HALL. 
          TOWN. 
          RESIDENTS CAN ALSO SCHEDULE THESE ITEMS TO BE PICKED UP ON THE CURB AS PART OF THE ON-CALL COLLECTION PROGRAM. 
          AND SOME FEES MAY APPLY FOR THAT. 
          I I THINK THEY GET A, THE FIRST IS A FREE, THE FIRST PICKUP IS FREE, AND THEN AFTER THAT THERE'S A CHARGE. 
          UM, YARD WASTE ITEMS CAN BE DROPPED OFF FOR FREE. 
          AND MULCH IS ALSO AVAILABLE AT NO COST, THOUGH, MUST BE LOADED BY THEMSELVES. 
          COMMERCIAL LOADS OF YARD WASTE ARE CHARGED BY THE SIZES AND TICKETS MUST BE PURCHASED AT TOWN HALL. 
          SO THE TOWN USED TO GRIND THE YARD WASTE WITH OUR STAFF AND EQUIPMENT. 
          HOWEVER, GIVEN THE AGE OF THE GRINDER AND STAFF TRAINING, IT HAS BECOME MORE FEASIBLE TO HIRE A CONTRACTOR TO GRIND THE WASTE DURING THE YEAR. 
          UM, AND JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA, UM, THE FY 26 BUDGET INCLUDED $50,000 FOR GRINDING SERVICES. 
          SO THE REASON WHY THIS IS ON HERE IS THAT CURRENTLY TOWN AND COUNTY CITIZENS, WELL AT THE TIME THAT THIS CAME ABOUT TOWN AND COUNTY CITIZENS CAN DROP OFF YARD WASTE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT IS, IS THAT WE'RE PAYING TO GRIND YARD WASTE FOR TOWN CITIZENS AND COUNTY CITIZENS. 
          NOW, BEFORE THAT REALLY, UM, AS IT SAID, LIKE WHEN WE WERE USING OUR OWN EQUIPMENT, IT WAS ONE THING PLUS, UM, PEOPLE COULD, COULD GET THE MULCH. 
          UM, BUT WHAT WE HAD TO LOOK AT IS LIKE THE COST THAT IT'S, UM, COST. 
          I, I'M GONNA, I'M DIDN'T, WHEN ROBBIE CAME, IT WAS LIKE ALMOST HALF. 
          IT WAS LIKE, WASN'T I ROBBIE, SORRY, I CAN'T SEE YOU BEHIND THERE. 
          SORRY, ROBBIE. 
          HOW MUCH OF THAT DID WE CALCULATE WAS ACTUALLY FOR, UM, IT'S CLOSE TO 50%. 
          IT WAS LIKE 40 SOME MOST MONTHS. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE COUNTY, UM, YARD WASTE VERSUS THE TOWN BY TAGS OR HOW HOW YEAH. 
          BY TAGS WHEN THEY COME IN. 
          SO ROBBIE, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU, I'M NOT TRYING TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT IN CASE THEY ASK ANY QUESTIONS. 
          SO, UM, SO YES, THAT'S HOW IT IS. 
          AND THE STICKER ON IF THEY HAVE A STICKER, IF NOT, WE CHECK THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE. 
          OH, YOU DO CHECK DRIVER'S LICENSE? IF, IF THEY DON'T HAVE A STICKER. 
          OH, IF THEY DON'T HAVE A STICKER. 
          OKAY. 
          OH YEAH. 
          SO IF THEY HAVE A STICKER, THEY'RE COUNTY, 
          [00:45:01]
THEY'RE, THEY'RE, IF THEY HAVE A STICKER, THAT COUNTY STICKER, THEY, THEY'RE COUNTY, NOT COUNTY. 
          YEAH. 
          IF THEY DON'T HAVE A TOWN OR COUNTY STICKER, WE CHECK THEIR LICENSE OKAY. 
          TO SEE IF IT HAS A TOWN OR COUNTY ADDRESS. 
          AND SINCE THOSE STICKERS ARE NOT REQUIRED ANYMORE, RIGHT? MM-HMM . 
          THEN IT'S, IT, THAT'S WHERE THE CHECKING THE DRIVER'S LICENSE, IT BECOMES MORE. 
          UM, SO BASICALLY WE JUST HAD TO, YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE YOU ALL WE'RE LOOKING AT OUR EXPENSES AND, AND WHAT WE'RE SPENDING AND, UM, WHEN OUR BUDGET HAD TO INCLUDE THE ADDITIONAL $270,000 FOR TIPPING FEES, AND AGAIN, WE'D ALREADY SET OUR RATES FOR, UH, SOLID WASTE. 
          WE WERE LOOKING AT THAT. 
          SO ANYWAY, IN JUNE, THE TOWN COUNCIL ACTUALLY, UH, AFTER DISCUSSION EARLIER, WORK SESSION STAFF CAME UP WITH A COUPLE DIFFERENT PROPOSALS OF WAY, UM, SOME RESOLVING OF THIS. 
          SO ONE OF, THERE WERE, UM, TWO OPTIONS THAT WE THOUGHT OF. 
          ONE WAS THAT THE COUNTY RESIDENT WHO WANTS TO BRING THEIR YARD WASTE WOULD PAY A FEE. 
          UM, AND I BELIEVE IT WAS $15 IS WHAT WE ENDED UP. 
          SO WE HAVEN'T, UM, APPROVED ANY FEES AS OF YET. 
          WE, BUT THAT WAS THE PROPOSED, RIGHT? WE ARE PROPOSING THE $15 FEE FOR COUNTY RESIDENTS, BUT WE WANTED TO BRING THIS TO LIAISON BEFORE DOING IT. 
          YY YOU KNOW, HONESTLY, I I, AND, AND I, AGAIN, I'M JUST SPEAKING ON MY MYSELF BECAUSE I'VE USED, YOU KNOW, BOTH, BOTH THE, THE, THE COUNTIES AND THE TOWNS SERVICES WE, WE LIVE, UH, IF YOU STEP OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR ROAD AND THROW A ROCK, YOU CAN ALMOST HIT THE NEW HOSPITAL. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT, THAT'S WHERE WE LIVE. 
          SO WE LIVE WITHIN THE TOWN, AND MY WIFE IS AN AVID GARDENER, SO WE USUALLY HAVE A LOT OF, OF YARD WASTE AND STUFF. 
          AND IF SHE DOESN'T CATCH THE, THE, THE YARD WASTE OR IN THE WEEK, THEN UH, THEN I GET TO USE THE PICKUP TRUCK AND TAKE IT OVER TO WHERE, YOU KNOW, WHERE WHEREVER. 
          AND I'VE USED BOTH OF THOSE. 
          AND, AND I, I DON'T SEE A, A PROBLEM WITH COMING IN AND, AND CHARGING, UH, COUNTY RESIDENTS WHO ARE NOT TOWN WITH, WITH USING THAT FACILITY BECAUSE MY GOSH, ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS DRIVE ANOTHER 15 MINUTES AND THEY'RE AT THE, THE, THE COUNTIES. 
          SO THEY, AND, AND THAT ONE IS OF COURSE IS, I WON'T SAY IT'S FREE OF CHARGE, IT'S PAID FOR WITH OUR TAXES, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S A, YOU YOU COULD CALL IT A $15, UM, CONVENIENCE, CONVENIENCE FEE. 
          YEP. 
          SO THAT WAS, SO THE TWO, THE TWO THOUGHTS WE HAD WAS ONE TO, UM, TO, UH, START IMPLEMENTING A FEE FOR COUNTY RESIDENTS TO DROP OFF YARD WASTE. 
          UM, AND THAT WOULD INVOLVE THEM GOING TO TOWN HALL AND, AND GETTING A TICKET FOR IT. 
          SO NOT JUST SHOWING UP AT THE MANASAS AVENUE AT THE FARM, BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO TO TOWN HALL, GET THE TICKET, PRESENT THE TICKET, OR TO PRESENT TO, UM, UH, UH, PEOPLE THERE AT THE STATION, UM, HOUSE THAT THEY HAD ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE DROP OFF. 
          UM, OR THE OTHER IDEA WAS THE OTHER PROPOSAL, WHICH QUITE FRANKLY, I KNOW Y'ALL, I DIDN'T THINK THERE WOULD BE A GREAT INTEREST IN IT, BUT WHAT, WHAT IT WAS WORTH TO TRY MM-HMM . 
          WAS TO, UH, TO UM, UH, TO NO LONGER CHARGE US THE TIPPING FEES FOR TAKING THE TOWN CITIZENS' TRASH TO THE DUMP THAT THEY PAY FOR. 
          BUT I DIGRESS. 
          ANYWAY, SO I DON'T KNOW THAT IT, IT, I MEAN FROM YOUR, YOUR, UM, YOUR ASSESSMENT MR. BUTLER, 'CAUSE YOU ARE LIKE MYSELF. 
          YEAH. 
          WE LIVE IN THE TOWN AND THE COUNTY, RIGHT? YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I DO BELIEVE THERE WILL PROBABLY BE, IT'LL, IT'LL BE A CHANGE FOR FOLKS. 
          PEOPLE WILL, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT GONNA UNDERSTAND IT RIGHT OFF THE BAT. 
          AND WHEN WE DISCUSSED IT AT THE WORK SESSION, UM, THERE WERE SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT, YOU KNOW, THEIR, THEIR CONCERN WAS LIKE, DEPENDING ON LIKE NORTH, NORTH END OF TOWN, LIKE WHERE YOU ARE MM-HMM . 
          FOR THEM, IT IS MORE CONVENIENT TO COME TO THE TOWN VERSUS GOING ALL THE WAY OUT, UM, TO THE TRANSFER STATION. 
          THEY MIGHT BE THE ONES THAT ARE USING IT MORE THAN SOMEBODY ELSE. 
          UM, YOU, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A, AND THIS IS JUST A SUGGESTION, MAYBE A SIGN THAT SAYS THAT IF YOU ARE A COUNTY BUT NOT A TOWN RESIDENT, UH, THERE IS A $15 CONVENIENCE FEE. 
          AND IF THEY DON'T LIKE THIS, AND, AND I CAN TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, THE, IT WAS ONE EARLY ONE SATURDAY MORNING, I WAS TAKING, UH, SOME YARD WASTE OVER TO, UH, UH, OVER TO THE TOWN SITE. 
          AND, AND I DROVE UP TO THE LITTLE HOUSE. 
          I DIDN'T SEE ANYBODY THERE. 
          SO I DROVE ON THROUGH, DROPPED IT OFF, COMING BACK, THE, THE GUY STEPS OUT AND SAYS, UH, 
          [00:50:01]
UH, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO STOP HERE. 
          AND I SAID, WELL, I DIDN'T SEE ANYBODY THERE. 
          AND HE SAID, OH, WELL, YEAH, I GUESS HE WAS ON THE PHONE OR SOMETHING. 
          BUT, UH, HE DID CHECK MY DRIVER'S LICENSE AND HE SAID, OKAY, YOU'RE A TOWN RESIDENT. 
          SO WE WERE TAKING CARE OF, BUT WHAT CONFUSES PEOPLE IS THAT THEY THINK THEY LIVE IN FRONT ROYAL WHEN THEY DON'T LIVE IN FRONT ROYAL, IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE. 
          LIKE, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? LIKE, IT'LL, IT'LL, I, YOU KNOW, IT'LL SAY FRONT, FRONT ROYAL ON THEIR, ON THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE, BUT REALLY THEY'RE OUTSIDE THE COUNTY. 
          SO WE WELL, WELL, YEAH. 
          IT IS JUST, IT'S JUST LIKE DO ANTICIPATE THAT IT'S JUST LIKE TOM, UH, TOM SAYER, YOU KNOW, HE'S, HE LIVES RIGHT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE, THE, THE, THE TOWN LIMITS. 
          AND YOU KNOW, IF HE, IF IF HE HADN'T BEEN THERE FOR X NUMBER OF YEARS, YOU KNOW, I WOULD IMAGINE THAT SOMEBODY WOULD THINK, WELL I'M IN THE TOWN, YOU KNOW? BUT NO, HE IS NOT. 
          HE'S RIGHT OUTSIDE THE TOWN LIMITS. 
          WELL, NO, I MAY BE, I MAY BE SPEAKING OUT OF, TURN ON THAT. 
          I, UH, ANYWAY, SOMEBODY DOWN IN THAT, THAT AREA MAY, MAY SAY THAT TOM DOES LIVE IN TOWN. 
          YEAH, HE DOES LIVE IN TOWN. 
          I JUST REALIZED THAT SERVED ON THE TOWN COUNCIL. 
          I JUST REALIZED THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          WELL, I, I SUPPOSE THERE'S AN APP THAT CAN USE THE ADDRESS TO DEFINITIVELY SAY, HOW DO THEY KNOW THAT? BY, BY THE, THE, WELL, ACTUALLY THE, THE STAFF THAT WILL BE WORKING AT THE STATION WILL BY POSTAL ADDRESS ON THEIR, ON THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE. 
          THEY KNOW DEFINITIVELY WHETHER IT'S THE, THERE'S JURISDICTION OR REGISTRATION. 
          OH, THERE'S A JURISDICTION. 
          JURISDICTION. 
          WE'LL, COUNTY FRONT. 
          GOTCHA. 
          OKAY. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          COME IN. 
          MIGHT HAVE LIKE COUNTY, COUNTY, SO WE'LL CHECK AND SEE WHAT COUNTY THE VEHICLE. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO I HAD A CONSTITUENT THAT WAS VERY UPSET ABOUT, UM, THE SITUATION. 
          AND I, I'M NOT SURE WHY BECAUSE YEAH, I THINK YOU WERE ON THE SAME E AMOUNT. 
          THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT STARTED ALL THIS CONVERSATION. 
          CONVERSATION OKAY. 
          WAS BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN I REALIZED I, I QUITE FRANKLY, I'M JUST GONNA BE COMPLETELY HONEST WITH YOU, I HAD NO IDEA THAT THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL WAS PROVIDING A SERVICE TO COUNTY CITIZENS. 
          RIGHT. 
          WITH TA TOWN TAXPAYER DOLLARS. 
          SO, WELL, SO THAT KINDA STARTED THE CONVERSATION, BUT RIGHT. 
          I THINK THAT, IN MY OPINION, I DON'T LIKE COSTS TO BE SOCIALIZED WHEN THEIR INDIVIDUALIZED, WHEN THEIR INDIVIDUAL DEMANDS MM-HMM . 
          SO IF, UH, IF I'M, IF I'M THE ONE GENERATING ALL THE STUFF AND I WANT TO DUMP, DUMP IT OFF, I THINK I'LL PAY FOR IT. 
          I DON'T NEED MY NEIGHBORS TO ALL PAY EQUALLY FOR WHAT I'M TAKING TO THE, THE DUMP. 
          UM, AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A FACT. 
          THEN YOU CAN SHOW IT THAT YOU'RE SPENDING THE MONEY. 
          SO MAYBE IT'S NOT A POPULAR THING FOR ME TO SAY IN TERMS OF ALL THE PEOPLE I REPRESENT IN THE COUNTY, BUT, UM, I HAVE A FEELING, WELL, I DON'T NEED TO ESTIMATE NUMBERS, BUT, UM, I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE THIS SOCIALIZED. 
          SO I THINK THAT THE, UM, UM, YOUR OPTION TWO, WHICH I THINK WAS WHAT MR. BUTLER JUST SAID, IS WHAT I, I EXPECT OUR BOARD WOULD, WOULD GRAVITATE TOWARDS IF WE'RE, IF IT'S SOMETHING WE'RE VOTING ON MM-HMM . 
          WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE REALLY JUST WANTED TO BRING IT UP. 
          IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THERE'S AN INTEREST IN OPTION ONE. 
          SO WE CAN START MM-HMM . 
          WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL TAKE ACT. 
          WE WERE, LIKE I SAID, WE WERE, WHEN WE WERE GONNA MEET IN JULY, WE WERE GONNA GO AHEAD AND, UM, PICK ONE OF, YOU KNOW, PICK THE SECOND OPTION. 
          BUT WE THOUGHT WE'D LEAVE, LEAVE IT TO US AND BRING IT IN. 
          OCTO. 
          WELL, WE JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE, 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, WELL, OPTION NUMBER ONE WOULD'VE BEEN A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO, TO  YEAH. 
          FOR THE TOWN. 
          WELL, THERE WERE OTHER OPTIONS THAT WE WERE DISCUSSING AS WELL. 
          WE WHITTLED IT DOWN TO TWO, BUT I MEAN, IT WAS A MONTH. 
          THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A LOT OF OTHER IDEAS THAT WERE TOSSED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IN, IN OUR, AT LEAST IN OUR WORK SESSION. 
          AND LIKE I SAID, WE JUST WHITTLED IT DOWN TO TWO AND I THINK THE CONSENSUS WAS THAT, THAT WE, THEY'LL PROBABLY LIKELY GO FOR OPTION TWO, YOU KNOW, BUT AS MAD MAYOR SAID, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, UH, PRESENTED OPTION ONE, UH, OR THE ONE OPTION ABOUT THE TIPPING FEE ITSELF, BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BROUGHT IT UP, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY JUST KICKING THAT DEAD HORSE. 
          BUT IT IS, THERE'S NO NEED IN ANYMORE DRIVING BILL FOR 15 YEARS AND DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT PLACE. 
          IT WAS . 
          YEAH, EXACTLY. 
          WELL, WE UNDERSTAND TOO 'CAUSE UH, YOU KNOW, THE COUNTY'S, UH, SOLID WASTE COSTS WENT UP AND OURS HAVE, HAS PROGRESSIVELY GONE UP. 
          AND WE'VE BEEN, WE'D BEEN LAGGING BEHIND AND ACTUALLY BEEN RUNNING IN THE RED IN THAT DEPARTMENT. 
          SO WE ACTUALLY RAISED OUR RATES TO JUST TO COVER OUR COSTS OF OPERATION, TO BRING IT BACK TO NORMAL. 
          SO THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, BUT THANKFULLY WE HAD THE DATA TO, TO BACK IT UP, UM, TO, TO SHOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THE COST INCREASE WAS, WAS JUSTIFIED. 
          WE WERE SIMPLY SPENDING MORE THAN WE WERE MAKING OFF OF IT, YOU KNOW? YEAH. 
          AND IT'S, THE INTENT IS OF COURSE, JUST TO PAY FOR ITSELF. 
          BUT AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, IT WAS THE, THE THOUGHT PROCESS THAT WENT INTO THIS FROM, YOU KNOW, FROM OUR SIDE, I BELIEVE, LIKE I SAID, THERE WERE SEVERAL IDEAS PRESENTED WHITTLED DOWN TO THESE TWO WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT WE'RE BOTH TOWN AND COUNTY RESIDENTS. 
          [00:55:01]
A LOT OF US ARE BOTH ON COUNT, OBVIOUSLY ON COUNCIL. 
          UH, AND ALSO TOO, THAT COSTING HAVE INCREASED ACROSS THE BOARD FOR EVERYBODY. 
          SO, BUT ONLY THE TOWN CITIZENS ACTUALLY PAY FOR THE, WELL, I CALL IT THE MANASSAS AVENUE SITE, BUT THE FARM, WHATEVER YOU, SO THAT'S WHY I'M, AND, AND I, AND I, I AGREE. 
          I DON'T WANNA BEAT ANY DEAD HORSE, BUT I STILL, I STILL DON'T KNOW THAT I AGREE WITH THE, THE CHARGING THE TOWN CITIZENS, THE TIPPING FEES TO HAVE THEIR TRASH CODE THERE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT. 
          BUT, BUT WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO ITEM SEVEN, WHICH IS THE FISCAL IMPACT MODEL. 
          UM, THAT ACTUALLY LAST JANUARY WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. 
          UM, AND AT THE TIME, UM, DR. 
          DALEY ASKED US ABOUT LIKE, DID WE, YOU KNOW, DID THE TOWN, WAS THERE SOMETHING THAT THE TOWN WANTED TO GET SOME KIND OF INFORMATION FROM? IF, IF, UH, THE COUNTY, UM, DID, DID A NEW STUDY? AND, AND WE SAID NO, BUT I JUST WANNA REMIND YOU ALL THAT THE FISCAL, THE FISCAL IMPACT MODEL NUMBERS ARE NOT ACCURATE. 
          AND, AND THEY'RE HURT. 
          THEY'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO HURT THE COUNTY BY NOT HAVING THE RIGHT NUMBERS. 
          AND, AND, BUT THERE IS NO MODEL PRESENTLY. 
          WELL, RIGHT? YEAH. 
          THERE IS NO FUNCTIONING, NO, THE, THERE'S NUMBERS, THERE'S FUNCTIONING, BUT THE NUMBERS ARE OUTDATED. 
          UM, I THOUGHT WE DON'T EVEN EVEN HAVE IT AND WE CAN'T FIND IT. 
          AND IT'S AN OLD PROGRAM OR SOMETHING. 
          I MEAN, I, I CAN'T, I MEAN, I HAVEN'T BEEN WITH THE COUNTY FOR A WHILE, BUT WHEN I LEFT, I BELIEVE WE STILL HAD IT ON A COMPUTER. 
          AND IT IS A DATED PROGRAM. 
          BUT AGAIN, I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE FOR A WHILE, SO, WELL, THIS IS A, TO-DO, UH, FOR MR. GROL, BUT, BUT THERE IS A NOTE HERE. 
          YOU WANT TO GO OVER THIS? YEAH. 
          WE, WE, WE ACTUALLY, WE, WE HAVE NOW IN OUR POSSESSION SAID LAPTOP. 
          UM, BUT, BUT, UH, I, I, AND I, I HAVE NO, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THIS PROFFER IS, IS A NEW CONCEPT TO ME. 
          SO I'M THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS MODEL IS, IS SOMETHING THAT'S KIND OF, UH, A, A BIT OF A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE FOR ME. 
          SO, BUT WHAT I'M TOLD IS, UH, THAT WE HAVE THE LAPTOP, BUT WE'RE NOT ABLE TO ACTUALLY ACCESS THE PROGRAM, UH, THAT THE REPORT IS CONTAINED WITHIN. 
          SO WE'RE TRYING TO GET INTO IT, BUT, UH, WE'RE NOT ABLE TO ACCESS IT. 
          UM, AND, UH, UH, WE HAVE GOTTEN A QUOTE FROM A, A, ANOTHER FIRM TO UPDATE, UH, THIS, THIS MODEL. 
          AND, UH, THE, THE MOST UPTODATE QUOTE THAT WE RECEIVED WAS, UH, APPROXIMATELY 50 TO $60,000 TO, TO, TO UPDATE THAT. 
          OH, THAT'S CHEAPER THAN THE A HUNDRED THOUSAND THEY TOLD US LAST IN JANUARY. 
          SO THAT'S GOOD. 
          BUT, UM, BUT YEAH, I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE ACTIVELY TRYING TO GET INTO IT, TO, TO GET IT. 
          BUT, AND AS OF WHEN DID YOU HAVE THAT LAPTOP AND WHO'S LOOKING AT IT? IS IT, UH, THIS WEEK, UM, UH, PLANNING AND ZONING HAS IT, BUT, BUT WE HAVE ASKED THAT OUR, UH, IT TAKE A LOOK AT THE, THE, THE LAPTOP TO, TO, UH, TO TRY TO GET INTO IT. 
          AND JUST TO CLARIFY SO THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. 
          'CAUSE WE DID TALK ABOUT IT IN, AT, IN THE JANUARY LIAISON MEETING IS, SO WHEN WE HAD A HOUSING DEVELOPMENT THAT, THAT WAS PROPOSING TO COME TO, TO FRONT ROYAL, AND WE STARTED AND THEY WERE PICKING NUMBERS THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR PROFFERS. 
          AND WHAT WE REALIZED IS IN MEETING WITH MEMBERS OF THE SCHOOL BOARD, SCHOOL BOARD STAFF AND SCHOOL BOARD, IS THAT THE NUMBERS THEY WERE USING WERE SO OUTDATED. 
          AND I MIGHT BE GIVEN THE WRONG NUMBER HERE, BUT IT WAS LIKE THEY, THEY WERE SUGGESTING LIKE AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL MAYBE WHERE IT'S GONNA COST LIKE 5 MILLION WHEN IT'S ACTUALLY GONNA COST LIKE 25 MILLION. 
          RIGHT. 
          I, I KNOW, I'M NOT SAYING THOSE NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE, BUT JUST TO GIVE YOU THE LARGE DISCREPANCY. 
          AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING AT THE TIME THAT THOSE NUMBERS WERE ALMOST LIKE 20 YEARS OLD. 
          AND SO, SO THEY'RE NOT GONNA VOLUNTEER ANY MORE MONEY THAN WHAT WE'RE, THAN WHAT WE'RE GIVING THEM SUGGESTIONS FOR. 
          SO THE REASON WHY WE BROUGHT IT UP IS BECAUSE, UH, EVEN COUNCIL MEMBERS AT THE TIME WERE SAYING, THIS JUST DOESN'T SEEM LIKE ENOUGH MONEY. 
          AND WE WERE LIKE, NO. 
          AND THEY SAID, WELL, THESE ARE THE MONEY, THESE ARE THE NUMBERS THE COUNTY GAVE US. 
          SO, UM, THAT WAS THE REASON WHY WE BRING IT UP AGAIN, BECAUSE WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, THAT IF THEIR PROFFERS OFFERED THAT IT, THAT IT CAN HELP, YOU KNOW, THE SCHOOLS AND THE BURDEN THAT ADDITIONAL PEOPLE AND INITIAL STUDENTS WOULD BE COMING IN. 
          SO AM I, THERE'S, IF THERE ISN'T ANYTHING ELSE TO THE ADD TO THAT PART IS THAT I, I JUST WANT TO ELABORATE ON A LITTLE BIT, MADAM MAYOR. 
          AND THE REASONING FOR THAT IS THAT, UH, THE POWERS THAT 
          [01:00:01]
BE THAT ARE ABOVE BOTH THE, THE TOWN AND COUNTY, BOTH BOARDS SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH THE, WITH THE ZONING QUEST, AND AGAIN, MAYBE IT COMES OUTTA RICHMOND, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY THE BEST WAY TO DESCRIBE IT IS THAT, UH, WE ARE, IT, THE, THE SITUATION'S KIND OF CONVOLUTED THAT WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE, IF A DEVELOPMENT COMES INTO TOWN, UH, THE NUMBERS, OF COURSE, THE DEVELOPER GOES TO COUNTY, HE GETS THESE NUMBERS TO DETERMINE THE COST OF WHAT IT'S GONNA BE AS FAR AS THE FISCAL IMPACT IS, UH, FOR PUBLIC SERVICES SUCH AS FIRE RESCUE, YOU KNOW, SCHOOL, UH, THINGS OF THAT THE COUNTY, UH, WOULD OFFER, UH, TO THE RESIDENTS OF THE COUNTY. 
          UH, SO IT'S, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE, THE, THE TOWN ITSELF DOESN'T GET ANY, UH, UH, PROFFER AS FAR AS SERVICES REALLY GO IN THAT REGARD, EVEN THOUGH WE DO HAVE OUR OWN POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          BUT, UM, BUT AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S, THERE'S A, THERE'S A, UH, THERE ARE LAWS ABOVE US THAT SAY THAT, THAT THAT'S HOW THE PROCESS IS. 
          IS IT CONVOLUTED? I, I THINK THAT IT IS. 
          I MEAN, I, I, I AS A, AS A COUNTY RESIDENT, YOU'RE ASKING, YOU KNOW, AS A, EVEN WHERE A POTENTIAL COUNTY RESIDENT, BUT AS A, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, YOU'RE ASKING THE TOWN TO REP TO REPRESENT SOMETHING FOR THE COUNTY, YOU KNOW, AND, AND TO ME IT'S, IT'S, IT, TO ME, IT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT. 
          BUT I, I THINK THAT MY TAKE IS ON THIS, I, I'M SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, IS THAT I ALWAYS THINK THAT THAT SHOULD BE DIRECTLY WITH THE COUNTY AND LEAVE THE IN AND THE TOWNSHIP BE OUT OF IT. 
          AGAIN, I'M JUST, I'M SPEAKING FOR MY OWN THOUGHT, BUT I WANT TO TRY TO EXPLAIN THE PROCESS IN THE SENSE THAT NEITHER NEITHER BOARD HAS ANY CONTROL OF WHY IT HAPPENS THE WAY IT HAPPENS. 
          IT'S JUST, THAT'S, IT'S A LAW ABOVE, ABOVE US THAT SAYS WE HAVE TO DO IT THAT WAY, WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT. 
          SO IT'S, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S CAUSED A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, IN, IN MY OPINION, THAT'S WHAT CAUSED CAUSES SOME OF THE FRUSTRATION. 
          SO A HUGE AMOUNT OF THE USE OF THESE PROFFERS IS RELATED TO SCHOOLS, RIGHT? I MEAN, THE NECESSITY OF BUILDING THEM AND, AND EXPANDING THEM AND SO FORTH. 
          I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT WE REALLY, WELL, SOME OF IT'S PROBABLY UTILITIES OR ROADS OR, OR WHATEVER. 
          THINK ABOUT FIRE. 
          BUT, BUT YEAH, ACTUALLY, UH, WE HAVE A SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER HERE WHO, WHO MIGHT WHO, WHO I KNOW. 
          YEAH, NO, I GOT, YEAH, I, I WAS JUST SAYING THOUGH, THEY, THAT I JUST KNOW WHATEVER THE NUMBERS THAT YOU ALL ARE USING MM-HMM . 
          THAT YOU, THAT ARE OUT OF DATE, AND IT, THAT'S NOT A, THAT'S NOT A, UM, THAT'S NOT A CRITICISM. 
          THAT'S JUST LITERALLY, IT'S BEEN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT. 
          AND I JUST DON'T WANT US TO GET IN A SITUATION WHERE SOMEBODY COMES IN AGAIN AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE USING THAT PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT DIDN'T ACTUALLY PASS, SO IT, IT DIDN'T GET APPROVED. 
          BUT, BUT ANYWAY, SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALL ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH IF YOU CAN'T GET IT. 
          BUT EVEN IF YOU GET THAT OFF THE LAPTOP, THOSE ARE OLD NUMBERS, SO YOU'RE STILL GONNA HAVE TO GET THE UPDATED NUMBERS. 
          CAN, CAN MS A TELL US WHAT SHE KNOWS ABOUT THIS? 'CAUSE SHE'S BEEN PURSUING THIS FOR A WHILE, UM, THAT, THAT'S UP TO THE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE. 
          FORGIVE ME. 
          I JUST GOT OFF A HIKE. 
          UM, YES. 
          THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET UPDATED FOR A COUPLE YEARS NOW. 
          THE SCHOOL SYSTEM HAS UPDATED OUR NUMBERS. 
          OUR NUMBERS WERE 20 YEARS OLD. 
          THEY WERE EXTREMELY OUTDATED. 
          AND SO IT IS HARMING THE, UM, PROFFER ASK. 
          UM, SO THE SCHOOLS HAVE UPDATED THEIR NUMBERS AND HAVE SUBMITTED THEM TO THE COUNTY FOR QUITE A WHILE AGO. 
          UM, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING FROM WHAT WE'VE BEEN TOLD IS THAT THE NUMBERS FOR THE PROFFER CALCULATIONS STILL HAVE NOT BEEN UPDATED. 
          UM, OBVIOUSLY I CAN'T SEE WHAT'S GOING ON ON THE COUNTY SIDE OF THINGS, BUT, UM, IT DOES LEAVE US LACKING BECAUSE WHERE THINGS STAND NOW, WE HAVE ROOM IN OUR HIGH SCHOOLS, WE HAVE ROOM IN OUR MIDDLE SCHOOLS, OUR ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS ARE AT AN OVER CAPACITY. 
          SO IF THERE'S ANY NEW DEVELOPMENT THAT INCREASES THOSE NUMBERS, WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT HAVING TO BUILD A NEW ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. 
          AND THE NUMBERS FOR WHAT THAT COSTS HAVE GREATLY INCREASED. 
          SINCE WHEN YOU SAY YOU'VE UPDATED YOUR NUMBERS, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE COST TO BUILD SCHOOLS? CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          YES, YES, YES. 
          WE UPDATE OUR ENROLLMENT DATA EVERY YEAR. 
          ARE THOSE, ARE THOSE PARAMETERS IN THIS ECONOMIC IMPACT MODEL THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT'S NOT FUNCTIONAL ON OUR SIDE? ARE THOSE, UM, I'M NOT, I DON'T HAVE YOUR AGENDA IN FRONT OF ME. 
          WELL, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A FISCAL IMPACT MODEL. 
          YES. 
          THAT'S, SO ACTUALLY THE SCHOOL SYSTEM'S PARAMETERS, WHAT THEY'VE UPDATED WOULD BE INPUTS TO THIS MODEL. 
          YES. 
          WHICH WE DO NOT HAVE. 
          YES. 
          OKAY. 
          WELL, YES, YOU HAVE ONE, BUT IT'S OUTDATED, RIGHT? THAT'S, I DON'T THINK, I DON'T EVEN THINK SO WE DO NOT HAVE A FUNCTIONING PROGRAM, RIGHT? YEAH. 
          I I, NO, IT'S NOT OKAY. 
          NO. 
          YEP. 
          I, I, YEAH, GO AHEAD. 
          FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND TO THIS, UH, THE, THE LAST, UH, UPDATE THAT WAS DONE 
          [01:05:01]
TO THE MODEL WAS DONE IN 2018 THAT THE COUNTY HAS. 
          UH, BUT THE, THAT MODEL THAT, THAT WE REFERENCED, THE 2018 MODEL IS BASICALLY LOCKED TO THE DEGREE THAT WE'RE NOT ABLE TO UPDATE IT WITH, WITH ANY SORT OF INPUT OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. 
          SO THAT IS WHAT WE, WHAT WHAT WE'RE REFERRING TO. 
          THAT'S ON THIS LAPTOP. 
          THAT'S WHAT THAT IS, RIGHT? THIS, THIS LOCKED, UH, STATIC MODEL. 
          SO IT'S BEFORE THE MODERN ERA OF SOFTWARE. 
          SO YEAH, SOME, SOME CONSULTANT DID IT AND DELIVERED IT, AND IT WAS PROBABLY ON A CD ROM. 
          AND JUST, I JUST KNOW THAT WHEN, LIKE I SAID, THAT PARTICULAR HOUSING DEVELOPMENT AT THE TIME, THERE WAS A, A EMPLOYEE THAT WORKED FOR THE COUNTY, THEY NO LONGER WORKED FOR THE COUNTY ANYMORE. 
          AND I WAS TALKING TO HER ABOUT IT AND SHE, THAT'S WHEN SHE SAID, SHE SAID, I'M PRETTY SURE, AND THIS WAS PROBABLY FIVE YEARS AGO OR, OR A FEW YEARS AGO, AND SHE SAID, I'M PRETTY SURE THOSE NUMBERS WERE OLD. 
          LIKE THE NUMBERS THEY HAVE ARE REALLY OLD AND, AND WE ALL SEE WHAT INFLATION'S LIKE. 
          SO, UM, SO YEAH, I JUST LIKE TO ADD A FINAL THING ON THIS. 
          FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, I THINK THERE'S AN UP TO DO ITEM, WHICH IS TO RESEARCH THE WORLD OF FISCAL IMPACT MODELS. 
          'CAUSE IT'S MAYBE A LITTLE NICHE, LITTLE NICHE INDUSTRY WHERE CONSULTANTS GET A HUNDRED GRAND OVER A THREE MONTH PROJECT TO DO A, A FISCAL IMPACT MODEL, WHICH IS THEY'VE GOT IN THEIR POCKET ANYWAY. 
          THERE MAY BE AN OPEN SOURCE VERSION, THERE MAY BE SOME PUBLIC ACCESS. 
          YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE A LOT OF OPTIONS OUT THERE THAT IF WE BROADEN OUR SEARCH, UH, MAY TURN SOMETHING UP. 
          BUT WE SURE NEED SOMETHING. 
          'CAUSE IF, 'CAUSE IT'S BEEN A WHILE BEFORE THERE'S BEEN A DEVELOPMENT, BUT WHEN ONE COMES UP, YEAH. 
          IT NEEDS TO BE THE RIGHT, AND HONESTLY, THAT'S REALLY THE ONLY REASON WHY I KEEP BRINGING IT UP, IS BECAUSE I KNOW THAT, UH, MISS SALE AND I HAD THIS CONVERSATION 'CAUSE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT WHEN THE OTHER DEVELOPMENT. 
          SO, AND I, SO I JUST DON'T, I JUST DON'T WANT US TO GET IN A POSITION WHERE SOMEBODY GETS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF US BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT NUMBERS. 
          UM, SO ANYWAY. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SO I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND JUMP TO EIGHT 'CAUSE IT KIND OF TIES INTO SOME OF THE OTHER STUFF, BUT IT'S IT'S OWN THING TOO AS WELL. 
          SO THIS WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE BROUGHT UP BEFORE, AND WE'RE GONNA BRING IT UP AGAIN. 
          JUST THAT, UM, WATER CONSERVATION ENFORCEMENT DURING DROUGHT CONDITIONS OUT OF TOWN USERS. 
          SO HERE'S THE THING, WHEN WE ARE IN VOLUNTARY MANDATORY OR EMERGENCY WATER RESTRICTION IN THE TOWN, WE CAN ENFORCE THAT IN THE TOWN. 
          BUT BECAUSE THERE ARE FOLKS, BUSINESSES, UM, THAT USE THE TOWN WATER THAT ARE IN THE COUNTY, WE WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A PATH FORWARD. 
          HOW CAN WE ENFORCE THAT? 'CAUSE WE OBVIOUSLY CAN'T ENFORCE, WE CAN'T GO OUT TO THE COUNTY. 
          AND SO IT REALLY, REALLY, LAST SUMMER, I BELIEVE, WAS WHEN IT REALLY, UM, KIND OF MAGNIFIED, RIGHT? WOULDN'T YOU SAY ROBBIE? BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE WENT INTO EMERGENCY WATER, UH, RESTRICTIONS, PEOPLE WERE SHARING FRUSTRATIONS THAT THEY WERE BEING EXPECTED TO DO THIS. 
          BUT FOLKS THAT LIVED OUT AND IN THE CORRIDOR WERE WATERING THEIR GARDENS AND, YOU KNOW, THAT OR WASHING THEIR CARS OR WHATEVER THE THINGS THAT WERE HAPPENING. 
          SO, I MEAN, DO YOU, I WE JUST WANTED TO BRING IT UP AGAIN. 
          I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE BEST, I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER TO IT, BUT WE WOULD, WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. 
          ROBBIE, DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS? 'CAUSE UH, I MEAN, I I MEAN, JUST TO SHARE WITH THEM SO THAT, CAN WE, CAN WE KIND OF PARAMETERIZE THIS? I MEAN, UH, IN THE, IN WHAT WAS IS THE NATURE OF THE RESTRICTIONS RESIDE ON RESIDENTIAL USE? IT'S, YES. 
          UH, IT'S RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL AND COMMERCIAL, YEAH. 
          SO, OKAY. 
          SO SOME THINGS LIKE CAR WASHES, ONCE IT GETS INTO MANDATORY, UH, IF THEY DON'T RECIRCULATE ORDERS SOME OF THE OLDER ONES, LIKE RESTAURANTS OKAY. 
          NOT OFFERING WATER, YOU KNOW. 
          OH, OKAY. 
          IT'S PASSED. 
          YOU KNOW, IT'S IN, ACTUALLY IT'S IN OUR ORDINANCE. 
          IT'S ALL LAID OUT, BUT YEAH, IT DOES, IT DOES AFFECT BOTH OF 'EM. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, LIKE SHRUBS, IF IT, IF IT'S BEEN PLANTED OVER, I THINK IT SIX MONTHS. 
          YEAH. 
          LANDSCAPING. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          CERTAIN THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT, BUT EVEN RESTAURANTS AND WATER. 
          MM. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, IS THERE ANY INDUSTRY IN TOWN? WHAT, WHAT IS THERE, UM, INDUSTRIAL USAGE IN TOWN? I'M JUST KIND OF, KIND OF FIGURE OUT, WELL, THE, IT'S, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT THAT RICH. 
          I THINK THE, THE, THE IDEA IS THAT, YOU KNOW, FOLKS IN TOWN. 
          WHAT, WHAT STARTED ABOUT, WELL, WELL, FIRST OFF, LET'S LOOK AT IT A HIGHER LEVEL HERE. 
          IN 2023 AND 2024, THOSE TWO 
          [01:10:01]
YEARS FOR THE FIRST, THE FIRST TWO YEARS, UH, IN A ROW, IN FIRST TWO YEARS IN HISTORY, THAT THE TOWN HAS GONE INTO THAT A LEVEL OF MANDATORY WATER RESTRICTIONS THAT THEY NEVER HAVE IN HISTORY SINCE 1895, I BELIEVE. 
          BUT WHAT BROUGHT ABO WHAT WHAT BROUGHT ABOUT THIS, THIS DISCUSSION WAS THAT SEVERAL TOWN RESIDENTS WERE COMPLAINING AS TO WHY THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, WE WERE, WE, WE ISSUED OUT VOLUNTARY, UH, RESTRICTIONS. 
          FIRST, DEPENDING ON THE WATER LEVEL, THEN IT ESCALATES TO, THERE'S DIFFERENT LEVELS OF CONSERVATION. 
          THEN IT GETS TO A MANDATORY RESTRICTION AGAIN, WHICH IS 2023 AND 2024, FIRST TIME IN HISTORY. 
          THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED IS TWO INSTANCES. 
          BUT THERE WERE SEVERAL, SEVERAL, UH, TOWN RESIDENTS AND RIGHTFULLY SO, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE DIDN'T THINK ABOUT UNTIL IT WAS BROUGHT UP UPON OUR ATTENTION THROUGH COMPLAINTS THAT, HEY, IF I CAN'T WASH MY CAR, HOW COME THE BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTS THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTY WHO ARE GETTING TOWN WATER, WHY AREN'T THEY UNDER THE SAME RESTRICTION? SO THE WATER COMES FROM THE SAME SOURCE. 
          IT'S JUST AT ALL WE'RE ASKING IS THAT THIS, THE, THE, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE GONNA DO A MANDATORY WATER RESTRICTION OR A VOLUNTEER WATER RESTRICTION, WHATEVER THE RESTRICTION MAY BE, THAT IT BE APPLICABLE TO ALL OF OUR USERS, BOTH TOWN AND COUNTY. 
          BECAUSE THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE WATER SOURCE IS THE SAME. 
          SO IT'S NOT A MATTER OF WHAT INDUSTRY'S DRAWING. 
          WHAT, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THE, THE, THE, THE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE CORRIDORS OUR BIGGEST COUNTY AREA, YOU KNOW, OUTSIDE OF TOWN THAT DRAWS WATER. 
          BUT AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOTHING THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S JUST BRINGING UP THE QUESTION AS TO HOW, HOW DO WE ADDRESS IT? WE UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WE ALREADY HAVE IT WRITTEN IN OUR, IN OUR ORDINANCE. 
          LIKE, LIKE, LIKE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, AS, AS ROBBIE'S SAYING, WHAT ARE, WHAT TOWN AND COUNTY, WHAT TOWN RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES ARE, ARE TO ABIDE BY. 
          IT'S JUST THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW DO CAN, CAN WE, YOU KNOW, RIGHTFULLY PUT THOSE SAME RULES INTO EFFECT FOR PEOPLE DRAWING FROM, YOU KNOW, COUNTY, COUNTY RESIDENTS AND COUNTY BUSINESSES DRAWING FROM A WATER? NO, IT'S A, IT'S A FAIR QUESTION. 
          I MEAN, SIR, I THINK IT'S A FAIR QUESTION. 
          THE REASON FOR MY OPENER, MY OPENING QUESTION WAS BECAUSE I WAS JUST TRYING TO DISCERN, I THINK IT THAT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RESIDENTIAL COMMERCIAL, IT'S PROBABLY AN EASIER LIFT. 
          BUT IF, UM, IF IT'S, UH, ONE OF THE MANUFACTURING PLANTS OUT THERE, IT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE A DIFFERENT, A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF, I WAS SAYING, I THINK ONE ISSUE TOO FOR US IS WHEN WE GET THE MANDATORY, WE USE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          SO OF COURSE, TOWN PD CAN'T GO IN THE COUNTY. 
          SO LIKE YOU SAID, SO THE ENFORCEMENT THING, THAT SORT OF BECOMES AN ISSUE. 
          MM-HMM . 
          BUT, BUT YEAH, IT'S MORE OF NOT LIKE PRODUCTION, IT'S MORE OF, YOU KNOW, LIKE, UM, LIKE WE DON'T LET NOBODY FLOW TEST, YOU KNOW, HIDE, FLUSH DURING WATER RESTRICTION. 
          YEAH. 
          WE WERE SUPPOSED TO START OURS TO, UH, NEXT WEEK WE HAD TO POSTPONE OURS. 
          I, I GUESS CONCEPTUALLY, I, I THINK IS COMPLETELY MAKES SENSE. 
          THE THING IS THAT THE, WHOEVER'S BUYING WATER FROM THE TOWN, IT SEEMS LIKE THE TOWN HAS PROBABLY SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF WHEN THAT'S, I DON'T KNOW, LEGAL. 
          NO, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING. 
          YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. 
          BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO, BUT YOU'RE JUST SAYING YOU CAN'T ENFORCE IT OUTSIDE OF THE TOWN LIMITS. 
          JUST, I JUST WANNA ONE LAST COMMENT ON THE INDUSTRIAL THING. 
          IF A, YOU KNOW, A, A PLANT, YOU KNOW, OUT THERE IN A CORRIDOR IS CAN'T USE WATER THAT MIGHT COST THEM $10,000 AN HOUR OR SOMETHING. 
          I MEAN, IT COULD BE, IT COULD BE VERY SERIOUS. 
          UH, SO, SO I, I GUESS THERE'S GOTTA BE SOMETHING THAT DEFINES WHO, WHO, WHO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. 
          YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. 
          SO WHAT I'VE HEARD IS IRRIGATION, CAR WASHING, UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN THOSE, THERE'S NOTHING, THAT SMALL EFFORTS ARE SPREAD OVER A LARGE NUMBER OF USERS. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT MAKES THE THE THING WORK. 
          THERE'S NOTHING THAT WOULD LIKE AFFECT PRODUCTION LIKE TOR RAY OR EXALTING. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S HOW IS FOR OUR TOWN. 
          OH, YEAH. 
          SO FAR THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO, LIKE, WAS MY OPENING QUESTION ASK. 
          WE'RE NOT, YEAH. 
          WE'RE NOT TELLING YEAH. 
          RESTAURANTS TO, YOU KNOW, TO CUT THEIR, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF BOILING HALF A POT OF WATER, BOIL A QUARTER POT OF WATER FOR ANYTHING, ANYTHING LIKE THAT. 
          IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, LIKE NOWT QUARTER THEIR GRASS, YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF STUFF. 
          OUTSIDE OR OLDER LANDSCAPE, THEY WOULD HAVE STUFF OF LIKE PRODUCTION. 
          YEAH. 
          YOU KNOW, STUFF LIKE THAT. 
          IT WOULDN'T, IT WOULDN'T AFFECT IT. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, WELL, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, CAN'T SPEAK FOR, FOR THE BOARD, BUT, BUT, UH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE THE CUSTOMERS OF, OF YOUR SERVICE. 
          UM, SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE UNDER SOME SORT OF IMPLICIT AGREEMENT. 
          I, I DON'T KNOW. 
          I DON'T KNOW WHAT, HOW THIS GETS INTO A LEGAL THING WITH WHAT THE COUNTY CAN ENFORCE OR NOT ENFORCED AND, BUT YOU KNOW, THE, I GUESS THE PRINCIPAL RESIDENTIAL USERS WOULD BE FOOD SHADOWS, RIGHT? YEAH. 
          WELL, AND THEN, THEN THERE'S THE WHOLE, THE, THE RESTAURANTS AND EVERYTHING ON THE TARGET AND THE WALMART SIDE. 
          AND IS THAT PRETTY MUCH THE, SEE WE PUT UPSIDE? WE HAVE, WE HAVE, UM, THERE'S ALSO DUCK STREET EXTENDED AND, UM, LOOP ROAD AND HARMONY HOLLOW ALSO, ALSO HAS, IS OUT IN THE COUNTY. 
          AND SO REALLY IT'S ABOUT GETTING TOGETHER, IF THERE IS A LEGAL MEANS OR WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE TO 
          [01:15:01]
ENSURE THAT THE COUNTY IS ON BOARD AND WORKING THROUGH THAT PROCESS TO ENSURE THAT WE CAN ENFORCE THIS AGAINST THESE USERS MM-HMM . 
          DURING THESE TIMES OF CONSERVATION. 
          YEAH. 
          AND I JUST WANNA NOTE TOO, THAT, YOU KNOW, USERS OUT THERE ARE PAYING THEIR BANK DOUBLE DOUBLE THE FEE BEING OUT, BEING OUT IN THE COUNTY. 
          SO AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT, THAT'S, I JUST WANNA LET THAT BE KNOWN. 
          I MEAN, BUT STILL, IT'S, IT'S, UH, IT, AS ANYBODY BROUGHT UP, THAT, THAT THEN THEREFORE MEANS THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO CONSERVE. 
          NO, IT'S NOT, NO, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH, I MEAN, NO, IT'S REALLY JUST LIKE A PLAYGROUND. 
          LIKE, PEOPLE WERE LIKE, WAIT, HOW COME THEY CAN DO IT AND WE CAN'T DO IT. 
          YEAH. 
          WHICH IS, WHICH IS A FAIR ARGUMENT. 
          UM, AND I KNOW IN THE TOWN, WE, WE PUT UP SIGNS WHEN WE GO INTO, UH, WATER RESTRICTIONS. 
          AND WE EVEN TALK, WE DID TALK ABOUT THIS BEFORE WE BROUGHT THIS LIAISON, LIKE, IS THERE A WAY, YOU KNOW, WE PUT UP SIGNS IN THE TOWN, WE WERE LIKE, IS THERE A WAY TO PUT UP SOMETHING CLOSER TO WHERE THOSE, UM, THOSE PLACES ARE, OR IF THERE'S A REMINDER OR THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          SO, WELL, BOTTOM LINE, THE BOTTOM LINE FROM MY POINT OF VIEW IS THAT, UH, IT'S AS BECAUSE OF SOME OTHER THINGS OF I KNOW WHAT MY VIEWS ARE, IF IT'S RELATED TO WATER AND O SCARCITY OF IT, THEN EVERYBODY NEEDS TO PARTICIPATE . 
          AND IT, IT, UM, IF IT BECOMES LEGALLY TANGLED OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I DON'T KNOW. 
          BUT FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, I'LL, I'LL WORK WITH YOU TO TRY TO COMMUNICATE ABOUT THAT AND BRING THAT UP, UM, IN TERMS OF, OF EVERYBODY PITCHING IN TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN WHEN IT'S COMING FROM THE TOWN WATER PLANT. 
          YEAH, I THINK, I THINK THERE'S AN EASY SOLUTION. 
          I MEAN, SO WE'VE, I, I BELIEVE THAT OUR, OUR ORDINANCES ARE ARE PRETTY WELL, PRETTY WELL WRITTEN, WRITTEN OUT FOR CONSERVATION, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR THE TOWN. 
          I MEAN, COULD JUST BE SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS JUST EXTENDING. 
          YEAH, YEAH. 
          BUT WE WANTED TO BRING IT TO THE COUNTY'S ATTENTION INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF SENDING SOMETHING OUT AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, UH, YOU KNOW, WHY ARE PEOPLE ARE ASKING WITHOUT, WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, ANY DISCUSSION BETWEEN THE BOARDS. 
          BUT, UH, BUT YEAH, BUT I MEAN, DICK, I WOULD THINK IT WOULD, IT WOULD, AGAIN, I'M SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, BUT IT WOULD, IT WOULD BE RATHER SIMPLE, BUT AS, AS ROBBIE BROUGHT UP, IT'S JUST, UM, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THE PERIMETERS GO, UH, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF FIGURING OUT A WAY TO ENFORCE. 
          AND THAT'S ALL. 
          AND MAYBE THAT GOES BACK TO WHAT MAYOR COWELL WAS SAYING OF, YOU KNOW, OF, UH, PUTTING UP SIGNS OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW. 
          SO, ALL RIGHT. 
          SO I'LL GIVE, I'M GOING BACK TO NUMBER FOUR NOW, RIGHT? 'CAUSE WE HAVE FOUR, NINE, AND 10. 
          THE ONLY THINGS WE HAVE LEFT, I THINK, RIGHT? UM, FOUR WAS ABOUT THE CASE SPRINGS. 
          UM, AND I'LL, AGAIN, I'M GONNA READ THIS PART A LITTLE BIT, BUT SINCE 2004, THE TOWN OF FRONT ROW AND THE COUNTY OF WARREN HAVE BEEN PARTNERS IN THE MCKAY SPRINGS PROPERTY, WHICH IS SUPPORTED BY DECEMBER 21ST, 2004, MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING AND LATER UPDATED IN 2011. 
          THE GOAL OF THIS PARTNERSHIP WAS TO MAKE ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS WITH VDOT AND TO MARKET AND SELL THE ECONOMICALLY VIABLE PROPERTIES. 
          ADDITIONALLY, THE TOWN AND COUNTY WANTED TO RETAIN THE RIGHTS TO POTENTIALLY UTILIZE THE MCKAY SPRINGS AS A POTABLE WATER SOURCE IF THE NEED EVER ARISES AND DESIGNATE A PERPETUAL PRESERVATION EASEMENT SURROUNDING THE FORMER ROBERT, UH, MCKAY JUNIOR HOME SITE. 
          THIS PROPERTY, AND I, AND AGAIN, THIS IS KIND OF LATE  'CAUSE THIS WAS WRITTEN PROBABLY IN JUNE, MAY, JUNE. 
          THIS PROPERTY HAS BEEN THE SUBJECT OF PREVIOUS LIAISON MEETINGS OF WHICH OWNERSHIP BOUNDARY ADJUSTMENTS AND PERSPECTIVE DEVELOPMENT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED. 
          HOWEVER, NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE WITH THE PROPERTY, AND IT STILL REMAINS VACANT, WHICH IS COUNTER TO NUMBER SEVEN. 
          'CAUSE IN THE MOU IT STATES, THE COUNTY AND TOWN WILL JOINTLY MARKET THE RESULTING JOINTLY OWNED LAND FOR SALE AND DEVELOPMENT TO COMMERCIAL DEVELOPERS AND INCORPORATE THE REMAINING ELEMENTS OF THE FORMER ROBERT MCKAY JUNIOR HOUSE INTO THE EVENTUAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE SITE TO RESPECT AND RECOGNIZE THE HISTORIC VALUE AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE REMAINS OF THE HOUSE. 
          UM, IN JUNE OF 2025, THE COUNTY AUTHORIZED THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A HOMESTEADERS MARKET TO OPERATE ON THE COUNTY AND PARCEL. 
          THE TOWN IS SEEKING AN UPDATE ON THE PROGRESS OF THE OPERATION AND ITS IMPACT ON THE COMMERCIAL VIABILITY OF THE JOINTLY OWNED PARCELS. 
          SO THERE'S FOUR PARCELS, THERE'S FOUR PARCELS, RIGHT? UM, THE TOWN OWNS ONE, THE COUNTY OWNS ONE, AND THEN WE OWN TWO TOGETHER. 
          AND THEN THERE IS, UH, AN EASEMENT AROUND, UM, THE ROPE, THE MCKAY HOUSE. 
          CORRECT. 
          MR. PETTY, THE EASEMENT, THE, THE, THE ZERO, THE HALF ACRE, UM, EASEMENTS AROUND. 
          IT'S BEEN DEFINED IN THE PROFFERS AND IT'S BEEN DEFINED IN THE MOUS AND IN SUBSEQUENT, UH, SURVEYS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE ON THE PROPERTY TO ENSURE THAT THERE'S A HALF ACRE AROUND THE RUINS AND JUST FOR EVERYBODY'S, IF 
          [01:20:01]
YOU DRIVE BY THE PROPERTY, YOU DON'T REALLY SEE THE RUINS. 
          THEY'RE TUCKED AWAY IN THE WOODS. 
          AND THE COUNTY, UH, YEARS AGO WHEN IT BURNED OUT, THEY DID SUBSTANTIAL WORK TO SHORE THE BUILDING UP, UM, PUTTING IN SOME STEEL. 
          SO IT IS SOME STONE WORK AND STUFF. 
          SO THE COUNTY DID SOME WORK YEARS AGO TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT WAS REMAINING STAYED REMAINING UP THERE. 
          SO IF YOU'VE NEVER BEEN BACK THERE, ENCOURAGE YOU TO GO CHECK IT OUT. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT, THAT FIRE OLD REMNANT OF A FIREPLACE IS WHAT SOME PEOPLE THINK IS THE, THE MCKAY. 
          IT'S AN ULTIMATE, CORRECT. 
          YEAH. 
          IT'S BURIED BACK THERE IN THE WOODS. 
          YOU CAN'T SEE IT IN THE WINTERTIME. 
          MAYBE YOU CAN GET A GLIMPSE OF IT. 
          UM, I THINK MAYBE THE PLACE TO START ON THIS IS TO ADDRESS THE NUMBER SEVEN THING. 
          UM, AND PROBABLY MR. PETTY, SINCE HE WAS OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR FOR A TIME, AND I BELIEVE WAS INVOLVED IN MARKETING THE PROPERTY, UM, YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME COMMENTS ON THAT. 
          I THINK THE, THE, THE, UH, THE CONCLUSION IS THOUGH IT'S BEEN MARKETED FOR MANY YEARS AND IT'S NOT SOLD. 
          SO, I MEAN, IT'S JUST, THAT MAY BE WAS THE INTENTION, BUT IT'S A TRUE STATEMENT THAT THIS HERE SAYS SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF THAT NOTHING HAS HAPPENED. 
          YEAH. 
          WHEN WE ACTUALLY, WHEN I FIRST CAME ON COUNCIL, WE DID HAVE, UM, UH, WE DID HAVE AN INTERESTED BUYER AND, UM, I, I GUESS I, I DIDN'T SIGN AN NDA THEN, RIGHT? I COULDN'T HAVE, DID I? I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF I DID IT OR DID I? OKAY. 
          NEVERMIND. 
          ANYWAY, THERE WAS DEFINITELY AN INTEREST BUYER AND YEAH, I'LL STOP THERE. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UM, CATCH ME ON THE SIDE. 
          I'LL TELL YOU. 
          JUST KIDDING. 
          DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU ACTUALLY WANTED TO, TO MENTION ON THAT? UM, I THINK, YES. 
          I MEAN, I PRESENTED TO LIAISON MEETINGS MULTIPLE TIMES. 
          WE'VE HAD PROSPECTIVE BUYERS. 
          WE USED TO GET CALLS ABOUT IT. 
          THE COUNTY AND THE TOWN HAVE SPENT SIGNIFICANT TIME AND MONEY. 
          I THINK ULTIMATELY THE TOWN AND THE COUNTY COULD NEVER AGREE TO SELL IT, PERIOD. 
          I, I THINK THAT, UM, THERE HAVE BEEN EFFORTS THERE. 
          YOU KNOW, THE EDA USED TO OWN PART OF IT, AND THEN THEY, UH, GAVE IT TO THE TOWN. 
          SO NO, GAVE IT TO THE COUNTY. 
          GAVE IT TO THE COUNTY. 
          APOLOGIZE, . 
          UM, THERE WAS A SIGN THAT HAD THE EDA ON IT FOR A LONG TIME ON THE CORNER. 
          THEY WERE ACTIVELY MARKETING IT FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME. 
          UM, WE DID A FLOODPLAIN STUDY TO IDENTIFY THE PAD SITES. 
          UM, THERE WAS A DRAFTED BOUNDARY LINE ADJUSTMENT THAT IDENTIFIED THE PAD SITES, THE BUFFER AROUND THE SPRING, WHAT WAS FEASIBLE, WHAT WAS NOT. 
          AND THE AGREEMENTS KIND OF CAME UP. 
          I BELIEVE IT WAS DOUG PARSONS AT THE TIME, PRESENTED AT ONE OF THE MEETINGS TO DISCUSS THIS. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY, IT WAS JUST A BACK AND FORTH OF WHAT COMES FIRST. 
          DO WE DO THE BOUNDARY ADJUSTMENT? DO WE SIGN THE CONTRACT? WELL, ONE WANTED TO SIGN THE CONTRACT BEFORE THE, AND IT WAS JUST NEVER RESOLVED. 
          THE PARTIES COULD NOT AGREE TO MOVE FORWARD. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, AND I THINK I HAVE STATED, AND MAYBE AT THE MEETINGS, BUT WE JUST NEED TO DO SOMETHING THERE. 
          UM, IT'S JUST SAT THIS LONG AND REALLY PROVIDED NO COMMUNITY BENEFIT. 
          WE'RE NOT PRESERVING THE HISTORIC RUINS. 
          WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, MARKETING THE PROPERTY. 
          I THINK WE AS THE OWNERSHIP OF THE NEED TO COME TOGETHER AND STATE IN THE MOU AND DO WHAT WE'VE STATED TO DO FOR MANY YEARS. 
          AND THAT'S MARKET IT AND MOVE ON AND ALLOW THIS TO BENEFIT OUR COMMUNITY IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER. 
          BUT I THINK IT'S BEEN DEFINED MOU THAT WE WERE GONNA DO THIS AS A PARTNERSHIP. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          THAT'S, THAT CAN BRING US TO THE PRESENT. 
          UM, I HAD ABOUT, SOMEWHERE AROUND APRIL, I THINK GIVEN A, A PRESENTATION AND ONE OF THOSE THINGS, UH, INVOLVED, UH, HOMESTEAD ACTIVITIES IS ECONOMIC, YOU KNOW, KICKSTARTERS AND, UM, ALMOST IMMEDIATELY WAS CONTACTED BY PEOPLE IN HOMESTEAD OR COMMUNITY. 
          UM, AND WE, UH, AS A, AS A BOARD JUST MADE UP, YOU KNOW, PASSED A, AN AUTHORIZATION TO USE THIS SMALL TWO ACRES THAT THE COUNTY OWNS FOR A HOMESTEAD OR, UM, FARM STAND SET UP. 
          AND THAT IS, UM, THAT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY THAT JUST TO USE SOME VACANT LAND THAT NOBODY'S USING IT. 
          AND, AND I HAVE, UM, I'M GONNA, I THINK, I THINK I'VE ALREADY EMAILED ALL THESE THINGS BEFORE, BUT I'VE SPENT SOME RESEARCH, UH, TIME RESEARCHING, UM, AGRI, YOU KNOW, AGRICULTURAL TOURISM. 
          UH, AGRITOURISM IS A PARTICULAR TECHNICAL DEFINITION, BUT, UH, ENLARGING 
          [01:25:01]
IT INTO THE, TO THE HOMESTEADER COMMUNITY IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S FEASIBLE. 
          UM, BUT THE, THE, THIS WAS A NON-PERMANENT KIND OF ARRANGEMENT THERE, THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT IT THAT WOULD, UH, BUILD BUILDINGS OR YOU DO ANYTHING THAT WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO BE VACATED, UM, WITHIN PROBABLY A MONTH OR OR LESS. 
          UM, SO IT WAS A, A CONCEPT TO, UH, USE SOMETHING THAT WAS ALREADY THERE. 
          YOU KNOW, DO IT QUICKLY, UH, HAVE THE, HAVE THAT COMMUNITY BE ABLE TO START THRIVING, UM, AND, AND ATTRACTING PEOPLE. 
          'CAUSE IT IS A HOMESTEADING, HOMESTEADERS ARE, ARE ATTRACTIONS, UM, TO A, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE INTERESTED IN AGRICULTURE AND RURAL, UM, HOMESTEADING. 
          AND SO THE, UM, THE FACT OF THE MATTER WAS THAT, UM, WE HIT A VDOT ROADBLOCK. 
          THERE'S AN ENTRANCE THERE. 
          UM, IT WAS PUT THERE BY VDOT, UM, IT'S OWN COMMERCIAL. 
          UM, SO, YOU KNOW, BY ALL RIGHTS, IT HAD THE EXPECTATION THAT WE'D BE ABLE TO USE THAT, THAT SITE FOR THAT PURPOSE. 
          UM, THEY HAVE BASICALLY SHUT THE DOOR ON THAT AND MOVED THE, THE REQUIREMENT FOR AN EXIT, YOU KNOW, QUITE A WAYS DOWN THE ROAD. 
          UM, WHICH ALMOST IF YOU LOOK AT THAT BLUE SQUARE, ALMOST, ALMOST IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT BLUE SQUARE NOW. 
          UM, SO THAT, THAT SORT OF DESCRIBES WHAT THE, THE BOARD SUPERVISOR DID, WHICH IS REFERENCED IN HERE, WHICH WAS MAKE AN ACCOMMODATION FOR, UM, AN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY OF THESE, OF THESE, UH, A HUB OF, OF HOMESTEADERS TO BE ABLE TO AGGREGATE THEIR STANDS AND HAVE A CONVENIENT PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO COME IN, UH, UM, BE, BE, UH, PURCHASE HOMESTEAD GOODS IN A CENTRAL LOCATION INSTEAD OF DRIVING THREE OR FOUR HOURS ALL OVER THE COUNTY TRYING TO HIT THE, THE THREE HOMESTEADERS THAT THEY, THEY LIKE. 
          UM, IT WAS, UH, IT'S A FAIRLY SIMPLE CONCEPT. 
          IT'S A LIGHT TOUCH ON THE LAND. 
          UM, AND SO THAT'S WHAT THAT INTENTION WAS. 
          NOW, UH, IN THE PROCESS OF, OF DISCUSSING THIS, UH, AS, AS A HOMESTEADER THING, UH, ONE OF MY CONSTITUENTS, UH, REACHED OUT TO ME WHO HAS, IS A HISTORICAL BUFF, HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THE BATTLEFIELDS, UM, NATIONAL HISTORIC BATTLEFIELDS FOUNDATION. 
          AND HE, HE'S A CONSTITUENT OF MINE IN, IN MY DISTRICT, AND EMAILED ME AND HE SAID, DID YOU KNOW, HE, HE LITERALLY SAID, DID YOU KNOW THAT THE BATTLEFIELDS FOUNDATION WAS INTERESTED IN THAT PROPERTY? AND, UM, OF COURSE I DIDN'T. 
          I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T. 
          I'M FRANKLY, UH, OTHER THAN, THAN THE, THE BATTLEFIELD RAN ACT IN MIDDLETOWN. 
          I'M NOT THAT FAMILIAR WITH IT. 
          SO, UM, SO HE, HE SAID, ARE YOU, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY'VE WANTED THIS, THERE WAS, I THINK PRE EDA THEY WERE INTERESTED IN, UH, BUYING THIS. 
          AND THEN IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME, THE THING KIND OF FELL APART. 
          UM, SO HE JUST OFFERED TO MAKE A CONNECTION. 
          AND I, AND I SAID, WELL, OF COURSE I WOULD BE WANTED, I'D WANT TO TALK TO ANYBODY WHO WAS INTERESTED IN THIS PROPERTY. 
          UM, AND SO THAT LED TO, UH, ANOTHER, UM, PHONE CALL AND A MEETING, AND WHICH THE, THE BATTLEFIELD FOUNDATION PEOPLE BASICALLY SAID, HERE'S THE, HERE'S THE KIND OF WAY WE DO THINGS. 
          AND, UH, YOU KNOW, THEIR PITCH IS, IS FIRST OF ALL, WHAT, WHAT I'VE WANTED TO DO AND PROPOSED, UH, AT OUR BOARD MEETING WAS TO, UH, ASK AND, AND SEE IF THE TOWN COUNCIL AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WOULD BE INTERESTED IN HEARING WHAT THE BATTLEFIELD FOUNDATION HAD TO SAY. 
          AND WE, THEY'VE TOLD US, AND WE CAN, WE CAN SAY, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT AN OFFER, BUT THAT THE PARAMETERS THAT THEY WORK WITH IS THAT, UM, THEY CAN OFFER IF, IF UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS. 
          AND I GUESS, UM, IT'S UP TO THEM TO PRESENT THEIR WHOLE PITCH ABOUT 50% OF RETAIL. 
          AND THEY WENT AHEAD AND DID A, UH, AN ASSESSMENT, AND THEY CAME BACK WITH A NUMBER OF $3.4 MILLION. 
          SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY BASICALLY, AGAIN, THIS ISN'T THEIR PITCH, BUT THIS IS THE PARAMETERS OF WHAT THEY CAN DO IS PAY 50% OF, OF ASSESS OF RETAIL VALUE, AND THEN THE EASEMENT STAYS WITH THE PRE PREVIOUS OWNERS. 
          SO, UH, THAT MEANS THAT DEVELOPMENT DECISIONS, AS LONG AS THEY'RE CONSISTENT WITH, YOU KNOW, UH, HERITAGE HISTORY, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF CAN BE DEVELOPED. 
          SO, FOR EXAMPLE, UM, THE, THE, IT WOULD BE AGAIN, I GUESS NEGOTIABLE WITH THEM, BUT, BUT, UM, AGRICULTURAL RELATED THINGS LIKE THE FARM STAND HUB WOULD BE OPEN FOR DISCUSSION, UH, UH, UH, HISTORICAL GARDENS. 
          THE, THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE, UH, MCKAY HOUSE, UH, RESTORATION THROUGH GRANTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT WOULD BE AN OPEN, UH, MAYBE A, UM, A TOURISM, UH, HUB OR, OR IT'S LANDING POINT OFF THE HIGHWAY. 
          YOU KNOW, THERE'S 
          [01:30:01]
ALL SORTS OF VISIONEERING THAT CAN TAKE PLACE. 
          BUT THE, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT, UM, I THEN WENT FROM RESEARCHING, UM, AGRICULTURALLY RELATED, RELATED TOURISM TO HERITAGE TO TOURISM. 
          AND I HAVE, I THINK I PREVIOUSLY EMAILED TO EVERYBODY, BUT, UM, AND I KNOW AT LEAST JOSH HAS FROM THE, FROM THE BATTLEFIELDS FOUNDATION AND ECONOMIC IMPACT, UM, OF NATIONAL HERITAGE AREAS, A CASE STUDY, AND, YOU KNOW, FOR THAT, YEAH, THIS IS VERY, THIS IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT TOURISM DRAW. 
          SO, SO, YOU KNOW, IT, IT DOESN'T GO ANY FURTHER THAN SHOULD OUR BOARDS SIT AND LISTEN TO A PITCH FROM THE NATIONAL BATTLEFIELDS FOUNDATION, WHO HAVE, WHO HAVE WANTED, UH, AND BEEN, AND THE BATTLEFIELDS THAT OWN NO COUNTY, NO WARREN COUNTY PROPERTY, AND IT WOULD INTEGRATE WELL INTO THEIR, UM, NATIONAL OR THEIR, UH, THEIR, WHAT THEY CALL IT, HERITAGE PATH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          UM, SO THAT, SO IT'S JUST A MATTER OF THEY'RE INTERESTED AND ARE, WE ARE WILLING TO LISTEN. 
          AND, AND THEN FROM, FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, AND THE WAY I'VE, I'VE STARTED RESEARCHING, I WAS ALREADY ORIENTED TOWARDS RESEARCHING AGRICULTURALLY RELATED TOURISM, BUT THEN IF YOU ADD, UM, HERITAGE AND CIVIL WAR TOURISM ONTO THAT, AND YOU THINK ABOUT A SITE LIKE THIS BEING ABLE TO BE DEVELOPED WITH A, AN EVENTUAL RESTORATION OF THE MCKAY HOUSE BEING A BIG DRAW. 
          AND WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE THAT AND, AND A CONGRESSIONALLY, UM, ESTABLISHED ORGANIZATION, THE ABILITY TO DRAW IN FUNDS AND GRANTS TO MAYBE RESTORE THAT HOUSE AND DEVELOP, DEVELOP THIS AS A HISTORIC SLASH AGRICULTURAL SLASH TOURISM HUB TYPE SITE, WHICH COULD, AGAIN, IT TAKES, IT TAKES, IT TAKES PROPER ECONOMIC ANALYSIS. 
          BUT THAT HAS A, A, A LONG TERM RETURN, WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH THE, BOTH THE TOWN'S ECONOMIC AND TOURISM RELATED PLANS, AS WELL AS THE COUNTIES, UM, WHICH COULD EQUAL OR EXCEED, UH, YOU KNOW, THE REVENUE FROM A HARDEE'S OR, OR SOMETHING THAT'S THERE. 
          UM, SO THAT'S, THOSE ARE THE BIG PICTURE. 
          YOU SAID ALREADY'S? I DIDN'T, OH, WELL, I, I, I DIDN'T SIGN AN NDA. 
          I'M JUST KIDDING. 
          I JUST HEARD THAT SOMEWHERE. 
          I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE. 
          HEY, SO I, I WANNA ASK YOU A QUESTION. 
          IS IT THE CIVIL WAR BATTLEFIELD, YOU, WHEN YOU WERE REFERRING TO BATTLEFIELDS? BECAUSE I KNOW THEY SAID THAT, THEY SAID IT WAS THAT THAT WAS A CIVIL WAR THING. 
          YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. 
          WELL, ACROSS THE STREET. 
          I'M NOT THE AUTHORITY ON IT, BUT I'M JUST TELLING YOU WHAT HE, WHAT HE SAID. 
          I'M NOT EITHER, BUT I, BUT I, THEY'D HAVE TO PROVE HE IS, THEY'D HAVE TO, THEY'D HAVE TO PROVE IT TO ME. 
          SO, BUT I WANNA, BUT THERE IS A SITE ACROSS THE STREET THAT WAS A CIVIL OR HOSPITAL, I BELIEVE MM-HMM . 
          RIGHT? SO, WELL, ANY, ANY, WELL, MADAM MAYOR, THAT'S A LITTLE, YOU'RE GETTING, I MEAN, I DON'T WANT TO PECULATE, BUT THAT'S SPECULATION. 
          THIS WAS, THIS IS CONSIDERED, THIS, THE WHOLE DISTRICT OF THE SHENANDOAH VALLEY IS DE SHENANDOAH VALLEY BA BATTLEFIELD HISTORIC DISTRICT. 
          THE WHOLE VALLEY IS, IT'S ALREADY CONSIDERED THAT WAY. 
          SO YES. 
          ANYTHING YOU MENTIONED THE BATTLE OF FRONT ROYAL, RIGHT. 
          AND IT'S BATTLE OF FRONT ROYAL. 
          SO THAT WAS A BATTLEFIELD OF FRONT ROYAL, IT TOOK PLACE THERE. 
          I I, I'M A HUNDRED PERCENT CERTAIN OF THAT, UH, WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO ACROSS THE STREET. 
          YEAH. 
          NOW, WHAT'S CONFUSING IS THAT THE MCKAY HOUSE SIGN IS AT THAT OTHER PROPERTY. 
          THAT'S NOT THE MCKAY HOUSE, WHERE THAT SIGN IS. 
          I DON'T KNOW WHY IT WAS DONE YEARS AGO, BUT THAT SIGN ACTUALLY SHOULD BE MOVED BACK. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S THE THOMAS MCKAY HOUSE AT FAIRVIEW. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND THAT IS FOR THE BATTLE OF FRONT ROYAL. 
          THIS IS THE ROBERT MCKAY HOUSE THAT WAS SIGNIFICANT TO THE BATTLE OF GUARD HILL IN 1864. 
          WELL, IT WAS ALSO TO SIGNIFICANT BATTLE. 
          WELL, IT IS THE SAME, IT IS THE SAME BATTLE THROUGH THE SAME, WELL, THE, THE FOUNDATION HAS MAP THE FOUNDATION AWAY MAPS OF LAND THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO BUY. 
          AND IF THEY'RE NOT ON THEIR MAPS, THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO BUY 'EM. 
          SO. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT I MEAN, THE, THE BATTLE DID TAKE PLACE THROUGH THERE. 
          IT WAS DID HAVE TO BATTLE. 
          THEY DIDN'T STOP THERE AND SAY, OKAY, WELL, THERE'S A SUR THERE, BUT IT, THEY DID VISIT THAT HOUSE. 
          I MEAN, BUT AGAIN, IT'S JUST THE DESCRIPTIONS ARE, ARE CONFUSING. 
          TRUST ME. 
          I, I THINK THE ONE IS THE QUESTION IS THE QUESTION, DOES THE TOWN WANT TO SIT DOWN AND HEAR WHAT THE BATTLEFIELDS ASSOCIATION LET 'EM YEAH. 
          IS OKAY. 
          JUST WHAT'S THEIR PITCH? GOTCHA. 
          I, I UNDERSTAND. 
          AND, AND THEY'LL BRING, THEY'LL BRING, I THINK A MONETARY DETAILS. 
          THEY'LL BRING, UH, THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PACKAGE OF FLEXIBILITY FOR HOW THE LAND COULD BE DEVELOPED, UM, IN, IN WAYS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THEIR MISSION, WHICH COULD BE VERY MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL TO, UH, THE COUNTY AND THE TOWN AS WELL. 
          AND THEN THERE, WHAT WAS THE OTHER ITEM? UM, SORRY. 
          UH, OH, IT'S THE FINANCIAL PART. 
          AND THEN, OH, AND THEIR, THEIR 
          [01:35:01]
ECONOMIC IMPACT ANALYSIS. 
          SO THEY'LL BE ABLE TO BRING DOCUMENTATION AS A NATIONAL HISTORIC DISTRICT OF HOW THIS IMPACTS COMMUNITIES. 
          SO THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S EX, WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THERE'S CASH INVOLVED OF BUYING IT. 
          SECOND OF ALL, THERE'S SOME MODEL THAT THEY ALREADY KNOW HOW TO IMPLEMENT FOR HOW THIS SORT OF THING BENEFITS THEIR LOCAL, THEIR LOCAL ECONOMIC COMMUNITIES. 
          UM, SO THAT'S IT. 
          THAT'S JUST LIKE, CAN WE SIT, LISTEN TO THEIR PITCH AND THEN HAVE DISCUSSIONS FOLLOWING. 
          SO I'LL, SO I'LL BRING THAT UP TO TOWN COUNCIL AND SEE, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S AN INTEREST. 
          AND IF THERE IS, WE'LL SET SOMETHING UP WITH THEM. 
          UM, THERE'S ONE MORE THING I WANT TO, OKAY. 
          IN MY, IN MY, UH, FRUSTRATING, UM, ENCOUNTER WITH THE VDOT AND AN INABILITY TO USE THAT EXISTING ENTRANCE THAT THEY INSTALLED, UM, WHICH IS ACTUALLY FURTHER BACK ON, ON THE ROAD THAN THE VET ENTRANCE, BUT THERE'S ALL SORTS OF EXPLANATIONS FOR THAT. 
          UM, THE, THE, IT WAS ALSO MADE KNOWN THAT THERE WILL NEVER VDOT WILL NOT PERMIT ACCESS TO THIS PROPERTY FROM 5 22. 
          AND THAT THEY, I THINK THE QUOTE WAS, THAT'S NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. 
          SO THE ONLY WAY ANY OF THIS, I BELIEVE IT'S A TOTAL OF 15 ACRES, IS GOING TO BE ACCESSED, IS THROUGH AN, A NEWLY CONSTRUCTED ENTRANCE ON RELIANCE ROAD. 
          THAT'S SO INTERESTING TO ME, BECAUSE  PEOPLE ENTERED THAT UNTIL, YEAH, THE ROBINSON'S CLOSED ROBINSON, RIGHT. 
          UNTIL CEDARVILLE GROCERY CLOSED. 
          RIGHT. 
          ALL THOSE YEARS AGO. 
          THAT'S, YOU CAME OFF OF 5 22, YOU PULLED IN IT AND YOU PULLED OUT. 
          SO YEAH, WELL THAT'S, THAT'S, YOU WOULD THINK THAT'D BE, GRANDFATHER IN RULES AND REGULATIONS ARE CONSTANTLY UPDATED AND, AND NO GOVERNMENT'S FUN. 
          ONE OF THOSE, ONE OF THE, WHILE HE WAS TELLING ME THAT, THAT THERE, THERE WILL NEVER BE ACCESS OFF 5 22 UNDER THIS PROPERTY. 
          HE WAS ALSO MENTIONING UP AT WHERE HE DINOSAUR LAND IS, SHEETS WAS INTERESTED IN THAT. 
          AND THEY WOULD'VE HAD TO, TO BE, THE ENTRANCE WOULD HAVE TO BE SO FAR AWAY, SO FAR DOWN THE ROAD THAT IT, THEY JUST SCRAPPED IT BECAUSE THEY'RE LIMITING JUST, THEY JUST, IT'S BECAUSE THERE'S ANOTHER BUS STATION RIGHT UP HERE BY BLUEBIRD SHADOWS THAT YOU, BUT WHATEVER WAS DONE IS DONE. 
          LIKE, WELL KNOW ACTUALLY LIKE THIS, THAT PARKING LOT IS GRANDFATHERED IN. 
          IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT IT'S CLOSER. 
          'CAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT THE NEW RULES ARE. 
          SO, WELL, WHAT I'M SAYING IS AS A, AS, AS A, AS AN ASSET THAT A A, UM, COM POTENTIAL COMMERCIAL ENTITY WOULD BE INTERESTED IN, I BELIEVE WOULD BE PRETTY SEVERELY DIMINISHED BY THE FACT THAT IT CANNOT BE ACCESSED BY 5 22. 
          SO, SO THAT MAY BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER. 
          AND, UH, IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE MARKETABILITY, BECAUSE AT THE TIME WHEN ALL THIS WAS DONE, THAT WASN'T THE CASE. 
          EVEN, EVEN WHEN THAT OTHER PROSPECT EXISTED, THEY WERE GONNA ALLOW ACCESS RIGHT OFF AS 5 22. 
          SO IF YOU NOW HAVE A, A, A LAND PIECE OF LAND WHERE THERE'S A, THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY LOOKING AT IT FOR A COMMERCIAL AND THEY SAY, WELL, THE ONLY YOU, YOU CAN'T GET AT IT FROM 5 22, YOU HAVE TO TURN OFF HERE AND YOU GO IN HERE. 
          THE OTHER THING IS THAT, THAT BEING THE ONLY POSSIBLE ACCESS TO THIS PROPERTY AND LOOKING AT THE LAYOUT, THE POSS THE PROBABILITY AND POSSIBILITIES OF, OF, OF THE OTHER PART OF THIS, UH, MOA, WHICH TALKS ABOUT, UM, UM, PERPETUAL PRESERVATION OF, OF THE, OF THE, UH, OF THE ROB ROBERT MCKAY JUNIOR HOME THAT IS PRESENTLY OUT OF SIGHT AND OUT OF MIND, AND, AND AS A, AS, AS ITS POTENTIAL FOR RESTORATION BASED ON PROBABLY NATIONAL GRANTS FROM THIS NATIONAL HISTORIC FOUNDATION AND SO FORTH, IS GOING TO BE, I THINK, CRIPPLED. 
          'CAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THIS IN THERE, THERE'S ONLY ONE WAY IN. 
          AND WHATEVER COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISES INTEREST IN THIS IS GONNA BE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT. 
          AND THIS HISTORIC, UH, MCKAY HOUSE IS WAY UP HERE. 
          SO THE, THE PROSPECTS OF THAT HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND, AND DEVELOPMENT OF IT AS A, IF YOU'RE A HISTORY BUFF, YOU JUST WANT IT PRESERVED, THEN FINE. 
          BUT IF YOU WANT TO CONSIDER HERITAGE TOURISM AS PART OF WHAT THE, WHAT THE OPPORTUNITY IS, AND THERE'S A, A MCDONALD'S RIGHT THERE, THAT'S NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. 
          THAT THAT'S A, THAT'S A CON THAT'S A CONJECTURE I'M, I'M MAKING. 
          SO I THINK THAT, UM, LISTENING TO AN INTERESTED PARTY IS A NO LOSE SITUATION. 
          AND THAT'S ALL, THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO PROPOSE. 
          AND I'LL ADD, I'VE HEARD, I, I'VE HEARD THAT THE BATTLEFIELD ASSOCIATION, THAT THEY'VE GOT THIS, UH, IT'S A FAST FOOD PLACE AND IT'S CALLED GUARDS, AND THEY HAVE UNION HOT DOGS AND CONFEDERATE, HAM, UH, HAMBURGERS, . 
          SO, 
          [01:40:03]
YEAH, JUST SO EVERYBODY KNOWS, I MEAN, IF, IF I'M, IF I GONNA CHIME IN REAL QUICK OVER, OVER CHAIRMAN'S OR, OR SUPERVISOR, UH, JAMESON, I WAS ACTUALLY AT THAT MEETING WITH HIM AT THE SHE BATTLEFIELD HISTORIC DISTRICT. 
          AND HE AND I BOTH TOOK THE VERY, VERY STRONG STANCE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WERE NOT THERE TO REPRESENT ANY VIEWS OF OUR BOARDS. 
          WE WERE JUST THERE TO GATHER INFORMATION. 
          AND, UH, I KNOW WHEN I CAME BACK TO COUNSEL, YOU KNOW, I, I WANTED TO CONVEY THAT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DID NOT GIVE THEM ANY DECISION MAKING INFORMATION WHATSOEVER. 
          WE JUST SAID WE WOULD COME BACK TO OUR BOARDS AND DISCUSS THIS AS, AS, AS SUPERVISOR JAMESON HAS DONE WITH HIS BOARD. 
          AND AS I'VE HAD A CHANCE TO DO NOW WITH MY BOARD. 
          AND OF COURSE, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IT'S BEING, I THINK, SPOKEN UPON PUBLICLY BY BOTH A, A MEMBER OF EACH. 
          BUT I JUST WANTED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT, LIKE I SAID, I WAS THERE AGAIN. 
          UM, YOU KNOW WHAT I, BUT I DO WANNA EMPHASIZE TOO, THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE, THE, THE FACTOR HERE IS THAT, THAT, THAT THEY, WHAT THEY DID MAKE CLEAR IS THAT THE, THE WAY THAT THEY WOULD BE IT WOULD WORK IS IF THEY WENT WITH THE 50%, UH, MARKET VALUE OPTION THAT WOULD BE GIVE MORE ALLOWANCE. 
          IF, IF THEY WENT FULL MARKET VALUE, IT WOULD TAKE 'EM LONGER AND THEY WOULD JUST BASICALLY PRESERVE IT AND THEY WOULD JUST DO THEIR OWN OWN THING, YOU KNOW, AND A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT THEY DO, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SEE THROUGHOUT, UH, NEW MARKET AND, UH, WINCHESTER, UH, THEY'VE RECENTLY COMPLETED SOME PROJECTS OUT THERE. 
          BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, I WAS BROUGHT INTO THIS BEING THE HISTORY NERD THAT I AM, UH, AND, YOU KNOW, HAVING PRETTY EXTENSIVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE BATTLE OF FRONT ROYAL AND HAVING WRITTEN ABOUT IT AND GIVEN TOURS ON IT FOR, FOR SEVERAL YEARS. 
          BUT ANYWAYS, UM, UH, BUT I JUST, LIKE I SAID, WE, WE JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE GOT INFORMATION THAT WE CAN SEND SURE. 
          WITH OUR BOARDS THAT WAS ACCURATE, NOT JUST SPECULATION, UM, AND, AND SEE WHAT, YOU KNOW, OUR BOARDS WANTED TO DO. 
          SO, UM, WE'LL GET BACK WITH YOU. 
          OH, OKAY. 
          JUST ONE, ONE FINAL. 
          MM-HMM. 
          ONE FINAL THING ON THIS, UM, THE HOME, THE FARM STAND HUB FOR THE HOMESTEADERS WAS I THINK, AND POSSIBLY, UM, PERCEIVED AS AN AFFRONT, UM, TO THE JOINT OWNERSHIP OF THIS THING. 
          AND I JUST, I JUST KINDA WANNA SAY THAT IT WASN'T INTENDED THAT WAY. 
          UM, IT WAS JUST THIS, THIS SMALL PORTION, WHICH WITH A LIGHT TOUCH, YOU KNOW, WAS, WAS AN IDEA THAT COULD ESSENTIALLY, IT WAS LIKE A FAST MOVING THING. 
          LET'S GET GOING, LET'S DO IT. 
          'CAUSE WE OWN THE PROPERTY AND NOTHING'S BEING DONE THERE. 
          UM, IT WAS NEVER LIKE, UM, INTENT, IT WOULD NEVER HAVE A PERMANENT FOOTPRINT. 
          AND, UM, SO I JUST KIND OF WANT TO CLARIFY THAT. 
          UM, SOME PEOPLE HAD SOME GOOD IDEAS AND WE WANT TO FACILITATE THAT. 
          UM, BUT NOT TO THE DETRIMENT OF, OF THE WHOLE SITE, YOU KNOW, AND LONG-TERM GOALS. 
          SO I WANNA ASK A QUESTION FOR MY OWN KNOWLEDGE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS BECAUSE I'VE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS SINCE 2020, MR. BETTY, THE BLUE, THE BLUE RECTANGLE, WHICH, WHICH PART WAS IT THAT THE EDA OWNED BECAUSE THE TOWN OWNED SOMETHING BY THEMSELVES, AND THEN WE OWNED SOMETHING WITH THE COUNTY, AND THEN THE EDA OWNS. 
          I'M JUST CURIOUS, WHICH PART OF THAT DID THE EDA OWN AND GAVE IT TO THE COUNTY? THE BLUE PARCEL THAT SAYS COUNTY, THAT'S, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT WAS CONFUSING ME. 
          OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          MR. JAMESON, I THINK YOU'RE, YOU'RE NINE AND 10, RIGHT? OKAY. 
          WELL, I MEAN, NOT JUST YOU, BUT THE COUNTY, BUT YEAH, I KNOW HE GAVE US ALL THE PAPERWORK. 
          SURE. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UM, THIS IS, IS IT SAYS JOINT COLLABORATE, POTENTIAL OF JOINT COLLABORATION IN REGARD TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BETWEEN THE TOWN OF FRONT RURAL COUNTY OF WARREN. 
          UH, WE HAVE, WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS, UM, A BIT WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT TOURISM. 
          UM, AND WHAT I HAVE, UH, DAWN HAD BROUGHT TO MY BOARD. 
          I'VE ACTUALLY, I THINK I'VE EMAILED YOU THIS TO YOU. 
          UH, I HAVE BROUGHT TO MY BOARD THAT, WELL, ACTUALLY SIX MONTHS AGO, UM, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY NEED TO KICKSTART THIS AND, AND, AND GET MOVING. 
          UM, AND I ALSO MADE THE COMMENT THAT I, I CONCEIVE OF, UM, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AS THE BROADER CATEGORY AND TOURISM BEING AN, AN ASPECT OF ECONOMIC, UM, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. 
          AND, UH, WHAT I'VE IDENTIFIED AND, AND CONVEYED AND IS IN THIS, IN THIS DOCUMENT IS THAT KIND OF A COMPLICATED SITUATION. 
          AND, UH, IT'S, IT'S, IT SEEMS THAT WE'RE, I'M SORRY, BUT ALWAYS BELABORING THE POINT THAT DO, WE HAD AN EDA SCAN THOUGH WE HAD AN EMBEZZLEMENT AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. 
          YEP. 
          AND WE NEED TO MOVE ON FROM THAT. 
          IT'S TRUE. 
          UM, BUT IT'S A LITTLE BIT COMPLICATED AND, AND I, I DO THINK, UH, WE HAVE, WE STILL HAVE AN EDA, IT'S STILL HERE AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S GOING TO STILL BE HERE BECAUSE IT'S LITERALLY CANNOT BE DISSOLVED. 
          AND IT'S DOING, ACTUALLY DOING WORK NOW. 
          UM, AND 
          [01:45:01]
IT'S, IT'S NOT IN THE SPOTLIGHT OF COURSE, AND IT, YOU KNOW, AND IT PROBABLY NEVER WILL AND THINGS AREN'T GOING TO GO BACK TO THE WAY THEY WERE. 
          UM, THAT'S NOT ONE OF THE OPTIONS, BUT, UM, IT COULD ONLY BE DISSOLVED IF ALL THEIR DEBTS WERE PAID OFF. 
          MM-HMM . 
          I'M JUST SAYING YOU'RE RIGHT. 
          YOU, I MEAN, YEAH, I THINK THERE'S SOME OTHER FUNCTION, LIKE THEY HAVE SOME BONDS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          IT'S THAT ARE, BUT ALL OF THAT HAVE, WE HAVE TO BE TAKEN CARE. 
          BUT THE, THE BROADER BLUNT WAY TO SAY IT IS, IT'S, IT'S STILL HERE AND IT'S STILL GOING TO BE HERE, AND IT, YOU KNOW, UM, IT'S POTENTIALLY VERY CONTRIBUTORY TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. 
          SO, SO THAT IS IN A, IN THE MIX. 
          UM, I CALL THIS THE INSTITUTIONAL LANDSCAPE. 
          I MEAN, WE HAVE, UH, WE HAVE THE DYNAMICS OF THE TOWN AND, UH, FRONT ROW IN THE COUNTY IN PARTNERSHIP. 
          SO AS WAS STATED WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT TOURISM, THERE ARE THESE INDEPENDENT MARKETING EFFORTS AND HUMAN RESOURCES DUPLICATED AND DIGITAL MARKETING COSTS DUPLICATED. 
          SO, UM, WE HAVE, UH, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT COLLABORATION, AND THE ANSWER IS YES, WE SHOULD COLLABORATE, BUT AGAIN, THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS, HOW WELL UNDER WHAT MODEL, WHERE, HOW DO THE ECONOMICS WORK, AND I MEAN, ECONOMICS OF CONTRIBUTORY MODELS. 
          UM, THEN WE HAVE, WE DO HAVE A DESIRE TO HAVE INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT, BUT WE HAVE A LIMITED LANDMASS. 
          UM, SO WE HAVE LIMITED SITE AVAILABILITY. 
          UM, THEY HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, WATER BEING PROVIDED BY TOWN TO THE INDUSTRIAL CORRIDOR. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT WATER AND WATER CONSTRAINTS. 
          AND SO THAT IS ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. 
          UM, SO, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE PRIORITIES THAT WE HAVE TO ESTABLISH AS IDEALLY A JOINT LEAD COORDINATED ENTITY AND TWO ENTITIES. 
          BUT, YOU KNOW, OUR PRIORITIES HOPEFULLY COULDN'T BE SYNCHRONIZED. 
          UM, SO I HAVE, UH, PROPOSED TO, TO MY BOARD THAT WE CONTEMPLATE AND I, AND THIS IS, THIS DEFINES THE, THE STATEMENT OF NEED AND THE PROJECT OBJECTIVES, UM, SUCH AS INSTITUTIONAL INTEGRATION, UM, ANALYSIS, MEANING EVALUATING THE OPTIMAL ROLES, UH, FOR THE EDA WITHIN LEGAL CONSTRAINTS AND, AND DEVELOP RECOMMENDATIONS FOR INTEGRATION. 
          UM, LOOKING AT THE TOWN COUNTY PARTNERSHIP, ANALYZING POTENTIAL COOPERATION MODELS, UM, BETWEEN WARREN COUNTY IN FRONT ROYAL, UH, I MENTIONED BEFORE, YOU KNOW, THAT THE, I THINK THE LEADERSHIP OF THESE, OF THE COUNCIL AND THE BOARD NEED TO DO THIS EVALUATION TO COME UP WITH WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE AND THEN ASK OUR STAFF TO IMPLEMENT IT. 
          UM, THE, UM, THE STRATEGIC ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT POSITION, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT MY, MY ANTICIPATION HAS BEEN THAT THIS, THE COUNTY WILL FILL AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT POSITION. 
          UH, WE, MR. PETTY FILLED THAT POSITION FOR A TIME AND HE RESIGNED AND, AND WE HAVEN'T FILLED IT AGAIN YET. 
          UM, BUT, BUT I THINK THAT THERE'S ENOUGH, UM, THERE IS ENOUGH COMPLEXITY OF WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH IN TERMS OF REESTABLISHING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, WHICH HAS BEEN DORMANT PROBABLY FOR, YOU KNOW, I MEAN FOR AT LEAST 2018 AND PROBABLY SIX YEARS BEFORE THAT. 
          SO WE HAVE A LONG TIME. 
          AND, BUT THE POINT IS THAT IT'S JUST NOT A NORMAL CASE. 
          THERE ARE A LOT OF FACTORS INVOLVED HERE. 
          AND, UM, A A, UM, THE IDEA OF ENGAGING A STRATEGIC PLANNING CONSULTANT TO, TO LOOK AT ALL THESE PIECES AND COORDINATE WITH THE, WITH THE TOWN AND THE COUNTY AND, AND HELP US BRING THIS TOGETHER, IS, IS WHAT I'M PROPOSING. 
          I'VE PROPOSED TO MY BOARD. 
          UM, I, AND YOU KNOW, I, I HAVE, UM, THE, THE, BASICALLY WHAT THIS GETS DOWN TO IS ARE YOU INTERESTED IN COST SHARING A, A PROJECT WITH A STRATEGIC PLANNING CONSULTANT TO WORK ON THIS AS A PROJECT? EARLIER IN THE MEETING, YOU KNOW, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, WELL, SHOULD WE TURN IT OVER TO STAFF AND HAVE THEM BRING US IDEAS OR SHOULD OUR BOARD, OR SHOULD OUR BOARD COME UP WITH OUR IDEAS OR WHATEVER. 
          AND, UM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE, THE SIMPLE THING TO SAY IS A, IS A COMBINATION OF EVERYTHING, BUT THAT'S REALLY NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN IMPLEMENT. 
          UM, I THINK IF WE PINPOINT A, IF WE PINPOINT, UH, A SCOPE OF WORK AND WE PINPOINT DELIVERABLES AND WE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE ANALYZE PARTNERSHIPS AND HOW DO WE, UM, LOOK AT CORPORATION MODELS WITH SPECIFIC RESOURCE SHARING SCENARIOS, FOR EXAMPLE, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S PRETTY EASY TO SAY, YEAH, WE SHOULD POOL OUR RESOURCES AND, AND DO THIS, BUT IT'S, WE HAVE TO GET DOWN TO BRASS TACKS AT SOME POINT. 
          AND, UH, AN EXPERIENCED, UH, STRATEGIC PLANNER COULD BRING SOME INSIGHT INTO THAT. 
          UM, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WHAT NEEDS TO FOLLOW FROM THAT IS AN IMPLEMENTATION FRAMEWORK. 
          I MEAN, WE, THE, THE, WE HAVE TO BRING THESE CONCEPTS INTO CONCRETE STEPS, AND I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE, UH, TO ENGAGE 
          [01:50:01]
AN EXPERIENCE STRATEGIC PLANNER FOR THAT. 
          AND, AND REALLY WHAT WE'RE, WHAT THIS PARTICULAR ITEM ON THIS PARTICULAR AGENDA IS, IS FOR YOU TO CONSIDER, ARE YOU INTERESTED IN PARTNERING IN THAT, IN THAT PROJECT WITH US AND COST SHARING THAT, UH, 'CAUSE WHAT, WHAT WE'RE TRYING, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS CREATE ONE PLAN WHERE WE'RE ALL WORKING TOGETHER. 
          SO THE REASONABLE QUESTION IS, ARE YOU, I MEAN, WOULD YOU WANNA PARTICIPATE IN THAT? AND, AND, AND, AND ACTUALLY I'LL JUST SAY FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, EVEN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO COST SHARE OF THAT AND WE DO THIS, WE WILL BE STILL ENGAGING TO FIGURE OUT HOW, HOW IT'S ALL GONNA INTEGRATE. 
          SO, SO I SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID THAT. 
          'CAUSE THEN YOU MIGHT, YOU MIGHT SAY, WELL, EVEN NEED TO  NO, I, I, I, I GET YEAH. 
          I, I JUST WANNA GIVE, GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY ON SOME OF THIS PART TOO. 
          AND, AND YOU MAY ALREADY KNOW THIS IN SOME PEOPLE, BUT SO WHEN THE, WHEN THERE WERE MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS THAT THE FRONT ROW, WARREN COUNTY EDA WERE EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL MM-HMM . 
          EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL. 
          AND WHO I DON'T EVEN, I WON'T EVEN GET INTO WHEN THE, THOSE THINGS STOPPED HAPPENING. 
          'CAUSE THAT, THAT'S DEPRESSING. 
          UM, BUT THE, THE, AND THEN THE TOWN BEFORE I GOT ON THE TOWN COUNCIL, THE TOWN STOPPED. 
          UM, THEY KIND OF BACKED AWAY. 
          THEY STOPPED APPOINTING PEOPLE TO THE BOARD. 
          I DON'T KNOW, I WAS NOT THERE. 
          BUT I WAS TOLD THAT PART OF THAT WAS BECAUSE THERE WERE PEOPLE WITH THE TOWN THAT FELT LIKE THAT THE, THE, THE, THAT EDA WAS FOCUSING MORE ON WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE COUNTY AND NOT IN THE TOWN. 
          AND THEY, THEY WERE LIKE, WHY ARE WE GIVING TO THIS? AND ALSO THAT THE TOWN WAS PART OF THE COUNTY, SO YOU'RE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT WAS ALL PART OF IT. 
          THEN WHEN THE TRAGEDY HAPPENED, AND IN THE YEARS FOLLOWING THAT, THERE WAS A TIME IN THIS VERY ROOM THAT I WAS PART OF A MEETING WHERE, UM, THERE WAS A SUGGESTION AND MY, AND UM, I THINK IT WAS ACTUALLY DR. 
          DALEY AND, AND A FORMER TOWN MANAGER, UM, THAT TALKED ABOUT THE, THE WAY IT WAS DRAWN. 
          THE, UM, FLOW CHART WAS LIKE THAT THERE WOULD BE ONE PERSON THAT WAS IN, THAT WOULD BE LIKE THIS POSITION THAT WAS EDA, BUT IT HAD LIKE TWO ARMS, LIKE WORKING WITH THE FRIDA AND WORKING WITH THE WARREN COUNTY EDA AND FOR ALL THE REASONS THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS, NOBODY COULD EVER REALLY COME TO THE TABLE AND MAKE DECISIONS. 
          'CAUSE QUITE FRANKLY, THERE WERE, THERE WAS LITIGATION AND THERE WAS THIS AND NOT GETTING ALONG AND JUST, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE THINGS. 
          SO, UM, AND DURING THAT TIME PERIOD BETWEEN, IT WAS, UM, IT WOULD'VE BEEN 2020, UM, THE TOWN WENT TO THE LEGISLA LEGISLATURE AND, UH, CHRIS COLLINS FORMER DELEGATE, CHRIS COLLINS, HE'S NOW A JUDGE, BUT HE TOOK THE, TO THE VIRGINIA LEGISLATURE IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO ALLOW US TO START FRIDA, THE TOWN TO START FRIDA. 
          BUT REALLY THE INTENTION BEHIND THAT WAS BECAUSE EVERYBODY FEARED THAT THE WARREN IN COUNTY EDA WAS GONNA HAVE TO DISSOLVE AND WAS NOT GONNA BE EFFECTIVE OR EFFICIENT OR ANYTHING. 
          AND SO THEY WERE GONNA START THIS TOWN, EDA, AND THEN IT ALLOWED US TO ALSO DO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN THE COUNTY, UM, IN THIS PAST SESSION, UM, BECAUSE OF POLITICAL REASONS. 
          WE, THEY SUNSETTED THAT AND, AND WE COULD DO THAT NO LONGER. 
          BUT, UM, BUT I, I WROTE DOWN, ARE WE INTERESTED IN CALL SHARING? I, THAT'S ANOTHER THING. 
          I'LL PUT THAT ON THE NEXT WORK SESSION AND ASK. 
          I, I PERSONALLY THINK IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING WORTH LOOKING INTO. 
          BUT AGAIN, JUST LIKE WE SAID BEFORE, NONE OF US MAKE DECISIONS FOR OTHERS. 
          I DON'T KNOW IF JOSH WANTS TO SPEAK TO IT OR NOT. 
          I DON'T, I I'M JUST SAYING, I, I DEFINITELY WOULD LIKE TO BRING IT TO THE COUNCIL AND TALK ABOUT IT. 
          AND, AND THIS IS A CONCRETE, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THERE YOU CAN SPEAK IN THE ABSTRACT AND YOU CAN SPEAK IN THE CONCRETE. 
          THIS IS SHORT TERM CONCRETE, RIGHT. 
          THIS IS SOLICITATION. 
          SO, AND, AND MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING WHERE WE'RE SHARING THIS, BUT SHARING THE TOURISM TOO, YOU KNOW, WELL, LET'S LOOK AT IT THIS WAY. 
          I MEAN, THERE'S, WE HEAR SO MUCH NEGATIVITY ABOUT THE TOWN AND COUNTY AND THE RELATIONS, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, I THINK WE GET ALONG BETTER THAN, THAN A LOT OF PEOPLE, FOLKS THINK WE DO TO BEGIN WITH. 
          AT LEAST SINCE I'VE BEEN A MEMBER OF THE COUNCIL. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, AND JUST, JUST LOOK AT OUR, OUR FESTIVAL THIS PAST WEEKEND. 
          I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ANYBODY ELSE, BUT THAT SEEMED TO BE THE LARGEST FESTIVAL THAT I'VE, AT LEAST SINCE I'VE LIVED HERE AS FAR AS ATTENDANCE AND, AND VENDORS. 
          AND THAT CERTAINLY WAS A, A, THAT ASPECT, YOU KNOW, I'M, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, 
          [01:55:01]
BUT THAT'S A HUGE ECONOMIC INJECTION, UH, THAT WEEKEND FOR BOTH THE TOWN AND COUNTY. 
          AND THAT WAS A, UH, I'M PRETTY PRETTY SURE THAT THAT WAS A TOWN AND COUNTY EFFORT TO PUT THAT, UH, FESTIVAL TOGETHER AND MAKE IT SUCCESSFUL AS IT WAS. 
          SO, AGAIN, THERE ALREADY, THERE THINGS ARE ALREADY IN PLACE THAT, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I, I, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE GOT, LIKE I SAID, BETTER RELATIONSHIPS IN PRACTICE THAT PEOPLE DON'T, I NOT ALWAYS THINK ABOUT THAT. 
          WE JUST MAYBE JUST NEED TO PUT IN, IF WE PUT IT IN WRITING OR PUT IT IN P YOU KNOW, PUT IT IN PRACTICE, THEN, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING WE CAN BUILD UPON. 
          BUT AGAIN, I, I THINK THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE CAN LOOK AT NOW THAT WE'RE DOING WELL. 
          SO THANK YOU. 
          SO I'VE GOT IT ON OUR LIST. 
          UH, TWO THINGS THAT, I MEAN, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY MULTIPLE THINGS, BUT TWO THINGS ARE COMING OUT OF THIS MEETING SO FAR THAT WE, THAT YOU ALL NEED AN ANSWER FOR, WHICH IS, DOES, UM, DOES IT? WELL, THERE'S MORE THAN ONE, BUT TOURISM, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT. 
          AND THEN DOES THE TOWN WANNA SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH THE BATTLEFIELD ASSOCIATION? AND ARE WE INTERESTED IN COST SHARING OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT? THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT POSITION? HAVE I HAVE I LO I MEAN, TO BE VERY SPECIFIC YES. 
          THIS, THIS, THIS, WHICH, THIS IS WHAT YOU EMAILED US. 
          YES. 
          OKAY. 
          YES. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THAT'S A, THAT'S A, A SOLICITATION OR A STATEMENT OF NEED FOR A CONSULTING PROJECT. 
          RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          CONSULTING PROJECT. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          GOTCHA. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          AND IF THERE'S ANY TO-DOS, WE HAVE, I'M SURE JAY HAS WRITTEN IT DOWN, SO, GREAT JONES, COME BACK AND WATCH THE MEETING. 
          THAT'S WHAT I DO SOMETIMES TOO. 
          WHAT I MISS. 
          OKAY. 
          SO I GUESS, ARE WE TO THE LAST ITEM NOW? OKAY. 
          I THINK SO. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO I HAVE, UH, I MAY, SOME PEOPLE MAY, MAY NOT KNOW. 
          I'VE, I'VE PROPOSED A, UH, A, UM, A, UH, WELL, UH, THIS IS THIS, I PROPOSED A WARREN COUNTY GROUNDWATER PROTECTION ORDINANCE. 
          UH, THIS HAS A, A COUPLE OF NAMES FLOATING AROUND. 
          AND THE ONE I'M, I WANT TO USE IS A WARREN COUNTY GROUNDWATER PROTECTION ORDINANCE. 
          UM, I DON'T KNOW IF, IF I JUST WANNA SAY THERE'S A, AN ARTICLE CAME OUT TUESDAY IN THE , VIRGINIA DAILY FRIENDS OF THE SHENANDOAH RIVER, THAT, THAT, UH, WAS ABOUT THIS STRESS THAT THE WATER TABLE IS UNDER IN THE SHENANDOAH VALLEY. 
          UM, SOMETIMES ON THE FRONT PAGE. 
          YEAH, ON THE TOP. 
          RIGHT. 
          I, IT WAS AN AMAZING COINCIDENCE, UH, THAT NIGHT I WAS GIVING THE PRESENTATION TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND TO, TO THE PUBLIC ABOUT THIS, UH, GROUNDWATER PROTECTION ORDINANCE. 
          AND I ALSO, I DON'T KNOW WHEN IT WAS PUBLISHED, BUT NOT TOO LONG AGO, THERE WAS A, A GROUNDWATER STUDY IN LOUDOUN COUNTY, UM, THAT HAS A, A LOT OF STATISTICS IN IT. 
          UM, AND THEN AS, AS YOU KNOW, PEOPLE IN THE COUNTY MAY KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON, UM, THE DATA CENTERS AND WHETHER THAT'S, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING WARREN COUNTY IS GOING TO INVITE OR, OR NOT. 
          UM, I'M IN THE NOT CAMP. 
          UM, BUT WHAT I THINK WHAT I WANTED TO DO WAS FOCUS ON THE ROOT SOURCE. 
          I, I DON'T WANT, I DON'T HAVEN'T MENTIONED DATA CENTERS IN THIS ORDINANCE, BECAUSE WHAT IT REALLY IS ABOUT IS WATER. 
          IF IF THERE'S A DATA CENTER THAT DOESN'T NEED WATER, THEN THAT'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT. 
          BUT, BUT, UM, SO I HAVE, I THINK THE REPORT THAT I WROTE OR IS SOMETHING, SOMETHING LIKE, UH, MAYBE 20 PAGES AND, AND HEAVILY REFERENCED FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DIG IN AND FIND OUT WHERE THIS INFORMATION COMES FROM. 
          UM, BUT YOU KNOW, THE, THERE'S VIRGINIA TECH, UM, THERE'S, UH, THERE'S A LOT OF, THERE ARE MANY SOURCES. 
          THIS ISN'T, IT'S NOT HARD TO FIND INFORMATION ABOUT GROUNDWATER. 
          UM, DEQ, UM, SO IF IT'S ON THE COUNTY WEBSITE, YOU CAN FIND THIS, UH, ON THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS PAGE UNDER RELATED DOCUMENTS. 
          AND, UH, IT'S A BACKGROUND REPORT. 
          SO, UM, IT'S IN OUR PACKET. 
          IT'S IN OUR PACKET. 
          WE DO HAVE IT. 
          AND, UM, WHAT THIS BASICALLY IS SAYING IS WE ARE ALREADY, OUR GROUNDWATER IS, THIS, IS, EVERYBODY CAN SAY THIS, IT'S THE SOURCE OF OUR LIFE. 
          IT'S THE SOURCE OF OUR ECONOMY. 
          IT'S THE SOURCE OF OUR QUALITY OF LIFE, AND IT'S ALREADY UNDER STRAIN. 
          AND THE, UH, THE GEOLOGY OF THE AREA, WHICH IS VERY INTERESTINGLY JUST APPEARED IN A STORY YESTERDAY IN THE NORTHERN VIRGINIA DAILY, UM, IS NOT A POROUS, UH, WE DON'T HAVE A POROUS GEOLOGY. 
          SO YOU KNOW WHAT, WHEN OUR GROUNDWATER 
          [02:00:01]
DROPS, IT DOESN'T GET RECHARGED AT THE RATE THAT IT DROPS. 
          AND, UH, SO THIS IS A PROACTIVE FORWARD LOOKING, UH, ORDINANCE THAT IS AIMED AT PROTECTING GROUNDWATER RESOURCES FROM INDUSTRIAL SCALE USE. 
          UM, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE NOT TO CONFLATE THE TERM INDUSTRIAL WITH INDUSTRIAL ZONING. 
          SO THERE HAVE ALREADY BEEN SOME CONVERSATIONS. 
          I'VE HEARD WHERE THIS IMPLIES THERE CAN'T BE, YOU CAN'T HAVE A WELL IN INDUSTRIAL ZONES, THAT'S CLEARLY NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. 
          THERE'S A DEFINITION. 
          AND THE DEFINITION, INDUSTRIAL BUSINESS MEANS ANY FACILITY OR OPERATION THAT USES WATER FOR A MANUFACTURING PROCESSING FABRICATION OR ASSEMBLY COOLING SYSTEMS, UM, NOT LIMITED TO SERVER COOLING EQUIPMENT, COOLING FACILITY CLIMATE CONTROL, INDUSTRIAL CLEANSING, RINSING, UM, ANY NON-DOMESTIC, NON-AGRICULTURAL. 
          UM, SO REALLY WHAT THIS IS ABOUT IS SCALE. 
          AND, AND, UH, FOR THOSE INTERESTED, I REALLY ENCOURAGED TO READ NOT ONLY THE REPORT THAT I, THAT I I PRODUCED, BUT YOUR OWN RESEARCH, UM, TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN VIRGINIA, IN THE SOUTH, IN THE, IN THE MID, IN THE MID-ATLANTIC, IN THE SOUTH IN MANY PLACES. 
          UH, IT, IT'S, WE JUST SIMPLY CANNOT AFFORD TO FIND OURSELVES IN A SITUATION WHERE WE KNOW THAT INDUSTRIAL SCALE USE HAS THESE DELETERIOUS EFFECTS AND WE LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN, AND THEN WE HAVE COMMUNITIES THAT START TO STRUGGLE WITH, WITH WELL FAILURES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          SO, UM, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S AIMED AT, AT NOT ENABLING INDUSTRIAL SCALE WATER EXTRACTION FROM, FROM MOORE COUNTY. 
          AND, UM, THE, I THINK A PARTICULAR QUESTION WAS HOW WILL IT, COULD IT IMPACT CURRENT OR FUTURE WATER USES IN THE CORRIDOR? WELL, I'VE ASKED, UH, DEQ AND THERE ARE, TO THEIR KNOWLEDGE, NO INDUSTRIAL SCALE, UH, EXTRACTION WELLS IN THE CORRIDOR. 
          SO THERE'S NOTHING, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S, IT'S NECESSARY FOR ANY ORDINANCE TO HAVE, UM, EXEMPTIONS FOR EXISTING BUSINESSES AND SO FORTH. 
          BUT, UM, THERE AREN'T ANY. 
          AND IF THERE ARE, THEY HAVE EXEMPTIONS AND, AND CONDITIONS AT WHICH, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN CONTINUE TO DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO. 
          UM, BUT IN TERMS OF, UH, FUTURE WATER USERS IN THE CORRIDOR, PRESENTLY, THE MODEL IS THAT THE SOURCE OF WATER FOR IS THE TOWN OF, FOR ROYAL. 
          AND, AND AS TIME HAS GONE ON, I THINK IT'S BEEN NECESSARY FOR THE TOWN TO BE MORE IN, IN INTROSPECTIVE AS TO WHETHER WE CAN OR WHETHER WE CAN'T. 
          RIGHT. 
          UM, AND THAT'S A CONSTRAINT THAT FRANKLY, I MEAN ON THE, AGAIN, THE TOWN IS IN THE COUNTY, SO I'M NOT, WHEN I SAY THE COUNTY, I DON'T MEAN TO EXCLUDE THE TOWN. 
          BUT THE POINT IS THAT WATER'S A VERY HIGHLY CONSTRAINED RESOURCE IN, IN THIS COUNTY. 
          AND, UM, BUT THAT IS AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CRUTCH OR, OR A LIMP THAT WE HAVE. 
          AND IF WE ARE, HAVE LIMITED ABILITY TO BRING WATER OUT FROM THE TOWN'S SYSTEM INTO THE, THE INDUSTRIAL CORRIDOR, UM, THAT'S UNFORTUNATE. 
          BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE GROUNDWATER TABLE SHOULD BE THE, THE VICTIM OF THAT. 
          IN OTHER WORDS, I DON'T THINK, WELL, WE CAN'T GET IT FROM THE TOWN, SO WE'LL JUST DRILL A WELL AND PULL OUT WHATEVER THEY CAN GET 30, 40, 50,000 GALLONS A DAY. 
          UM, AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS IS, IT'S NECESSARY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE REALITY IS AROUND THE COUNTRY AND TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT HAS HAPPENED PLACES AND TO RECOGNIZE WE SHOULD BE PROACTIVE IN DOING THAT. 
          NOW, I HAVE SPENT QUITE A BIT OF TIME DESCRIBING HOW, UM, REAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS ABOUT INCREASING THE LIFE QUALITY OF, OF CITIZENS. 
          UH, IT'S REALLY NOT ABOUT, ULTIMATELY IT'S NOT ABOUT GETTING, UM, COMPANIES TO PAY LOTS OF MONEY TO THE GOVERNMENT TO FUND SERVICES, MONEY TO THE GOVERNMENT, TO FUND SERVICES IS NECESSARY. 
          BUT, YOU KNOW, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT NEEDS TO BE IN HARMONY WITH THE PEOPLE WHO ALREADY LIVE HERE. 
          AND MOST PEOPLE, WELL, 70% I BELIEVE IS THE NUMBER RELY ON PRIVATE WELLS. 
          SO, UH, WE, WE NEED TO BE MINDFUL OF WHAT WE'RE TRADING OFF. 
          AND WE, IF WE THINK OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS, WELL, WE NEED TO GET THESE INDUSTRIAL, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S A DATA CENTER OR, OR, OR A MACHINING OPERATION THAT'S, THAT'S USING A LOT OF WATER. 
          IF IT'S CONSUMPTIVE WATER MEANS IT DOESN'T GO BACK INTO THE, THE SYSTEM WHEN WE USE WATER RESIDENTIAL AND MOST OF IT GOES BACK IN INDUSTRIAL USE IS JUST EVAPORATED. 
          IT'S JUST GONE. 
          SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S REALLY, I THINK IT'S, 
          [02:05:01]
IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO ENCAPSULATE IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME. 
          I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO WATCH THE PRESENTATION AND DOWNLOAD EVERYBODY IN, IN PUBLIC TO DOWNLOAD THE, THE, THE REPORT. 
          UH, THE PRESENTATION, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THIS IS GOING. 
          SO, SO WHAT'S THE NAME OF THE REPORT AND THE PRESENTATION? UH, THE REPORT IS CALLED PROTECTING WARREN COUNTY'S GROUNDWATER OR COMPREHENSIVE ANALYSIS SUPPORTING WARREN COUNTY. 
          NO, I MEAN THE PRESENTATION, UM, WELL THAT'S ON, I DON'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF IT, BUT IT'S ON, IT'S ON THE RELATED DOCUMENTS ON THE BOARD SUPERVISOR'S WEBSITE. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UM, SO, UM, SO I DID WATCH YOUR PRESENTATION THE OTHER NIGHT TOO, ON THE BOARD OF CENTER AND I READ THROUGH. 
          UM, SO I APPRECIATE YOU SHARING THAT HERE TONIGHT. 
          I, ONE THING I WOULD JUST SAY MANY THINGS, IT'S A COUNTY DECISION, RIGHT? IT'S, IT'S YOUR ALL'S IT'S, IT'S YOUR CALL WHETHER YOU'RE GONNA PUT IN THE ORDINANCE OR NOT. 
          SO OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN'T, THAT PART DOESN'T, UM, WE DON'T HAVE ANY SAY IN THAT FORWARD AGAINST OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. 
          IT OBVIOUSLY GIVES THE TOWN, UM, IT ACTUALLY GIVES THE TOWN, UH, MORE OF THE DECISION OF WHETHER OR NOT TO APPROVE INDUSTRIAL WATER USAGE OR NOT, BECAUSE IT WILL BASICALLY FORCE INDUSTRIAL USERS TO USE OUR WATER SOURCE OR NOT. 
          'CAUSE THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO HAVE AN INDUSTRIAL WELL, RIGHT. 
          I MEAN, I'M JUST SAYING AS IT IS NOW. 
          YEAH, NO, I'M SAYING AS, UM, UH, NO, AS IT IS NOW YOU'RE SITTING, THE ONLY OPTION IS TOWN WATER, RIGHT? YEAH. 
          UNLESS THEY WANNA PUT IN INDUSTRIAL WELL, RIGHT BEFORE THIS ORDINANCE. 
          RIGHT, RIGHT. 
          THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. 
          OKAY. 
          SO MY POINT IS, IS THAT THIS ORDINANCE ACTUALLY SETS THE TOWN IN A POSITION WHERE WE WILL BE THE SOLE PROVIDERS OF WATER AND WILL DECIDE WHO WE'RE GONNA PROVIDE, WILL ALLOW THAT AT THE, AT THE, AT A DOUBLE THE PRICE, RIGHT? SO IN SOME WAYS THIS DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, UM, AND FROM WATCHING THE, UM, PRESENTATION, I KNOW THAT YOU BROUGHT UP MCKAY SPRINGS AND SO THAT, LIKE YOU SAID, THAT DOESN'T AFFECT US IN TERMS OF WE, WE OWN A CASE SPRINGS, WE HAVE THE RIGHTS TO A CASE SPRINGS, I GUESS IS WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY. 
          AND WHEN OUR CONSULTANT CAME IN, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HE TALKED ABOUT IS THAT IF WE DIDN'T WANNA PUT IN A PACKAGING PLANT, WHICH WOULD BE VERY EXPENSIVE AND HAVE LOTS OF REGULATIONS THAT WE COULD DO WELLS, UM, BUT THAT WOULDN'T, THIS ORDINANCE WOULDN'T, WOULD NOT STOP US FROM BEING ABLE TO DO THAT. 
          THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. 
          IT WOULDN'T, IT WOULDN'T. 
          NO, IT HAS BECAUSE WE'RE A MUNICIPALITY. 
          WELL, WE CAN'T TAKE YOUR RIGHTS. 
          RIGHT. 
          RIGHT. 
          THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. 
          SO I, I'M JUST SHARING THAT ALL I AM LISTENING TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. 
          IT'S A COUNTY DECISION. 
          IT REALLY ACTUALLY IN THE END ACTUALLY BENEFITS THE TOWN TO BE THE WATER CELLAR AND IT DOESN'T IMPACT MCKAY SPRINGS IF AND WHEN, IF THAT WOULD, WE'D EVER BE IN A SITUATION WHERE WE HAD TO, UM, UH, ACCESS THE, THE WATER FROM MCKAY SPRINGS. 
          SO, AND I, YOU KNOW, I, YEAH, I, THAT'S ALL I I MEAN I DO THINK IT KIND OF IS REACTIVE, IT'S PROACTIVE, BUT IT IS REACTIVE. 
          'CAUSE I THINK AS WE HAVE CONTINUED TO GET, UM, APPLICATIONS FOR WATER, UM, IT'S MADE PEOPLE BE, BE MORE QUESTIONING OF WHAT DO THEY WANT THE WATER FOR AND HOW MUCH ARE THEY GONNA USE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          SO I DO THINK IT IS REACTIVE, BUT IT'S PROACTIVE TOO. 
          SO, WELL, THE PROACTIVE FOR IS, IS MAKING SURE THE GROUNDWATER SYSTEM ISN'T COMPROMISED FOR SHORT TERM ECONOMIC GAIN. 
          AND THE, THERE IS, I THINK HAS BEEN FOR YEARS TALK, AT LEAST I'VE HEARD IT, THAT THE COUNTY NEEDS TO GET AN OPTION FOR WATER . 
          I MEAN, BRING IT DOWN FROM FRED COUNTY OR WHATEVER. 
          I MEAN, THAT'S A DESIRABLE THING FOR THE, IT'S A DESIRABLE THING FOR THE COUNTY TO HAVE AN OPTION FOR WATER. 
          YEP. 
          IT'S NOT GOOD THAT, THAT THE TOWN IS THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN AND THERE'S AN EXPLICIT, BUT IT WAS SET UP TO BE THAT WAY. 
          YEAH. 
          YOU REALIZE, RIGHT. 
          THAT'S HOW YOU, THE BORDER AGREEMENT THAT'S, I WAS GONNA SAY, THAT'S WHY YOU PUT YOUR SYSTEM OUT THERE AND THAT'S WHY WE INVESTED A LOT OF MONEY INTO IT WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE COUNTY, THAT WE WOULD BE THE PROVIDERS OF THE WATER. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND ALSO JUST SPENT, WHAT IS IT? IS IT 18 MILLION? WHAT HAVE WE SPENT ON THE REDUNDANT WATER LINE? SO WE'VE INVEST THE, THE TOWN HAS INVESTED A LOT OF MONEY IN MAKING SURE THAT WE CAN, YOU KNOW, RIGHT. 
          THERE'S NO, UH, INTERRUPTION IN SERVICE. 
          I GUESS 
          [02:10:01]
IF YOU, IF YOU WATCH MY PRESENTATION AND, AND, AND ALSO, UH, READ WHAT I'VE WRITTEN, IT'S AN EXPLICIT ADMISSION THAT THAT ECONOMIC, A CERTAIN KIND OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MAY BE HINDERED BY NOT ALLOWING THE GROUND WATER TO BE USED AT FOR INDUSTRIAL SCALE EXTRACTION. 
          THAT'S JUST A POLICY PROPOSAL. 
          AND I'VE ADMITTED IT. 
          I'M, I'M NOT SHY ABOUT IT, BUT I'VE ALSO SAID THAT KIND OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ISN'T ACTUALLY BETTER IN THE LONG RUN FOR THE CITIZENS OF THE COUNTY. 
          THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO DO IT. 
          SO IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A TRADE OFF. 
          AND, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO HIDE IT, BUT I ALSO THINK IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT TO SAY THIS ISN'T IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT KILLER. 
          IT, IT'S JUST SAYING THIS WAY IS NOT THE WAY THAT I'M, I'M PROPOSING THAT'S BEST FOR THE LONG TERM BENEFIT OF, OF RESIDENTS IN THE COUNTY, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO RELY ON GROUNDWATER. 
          SO, AND THIS, THIS, THIS GROUP, THE LIAISON COMMITTEE, 'CAUSE THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT THEY CALL THIS, THEY CALL IT A LIAISON COMMITTEE, BUT IT'S A FLOATING COMMITTEE BECAUSE IT'S THE CHAIRS AND, AND THE MEMBERS, UM, MANY YEARS BACK THEY, THIS AGREED TO A WATER COMMITTEE AND WE WERE GONNA HAVE, WE WERE GONNA ESTABLISH A WATER COMMITTEE BETWEEN SOME WITH THE TOWN COUNCIL AND THE COUNTY. 
          AND REALLY, UM, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. 
          UM, BUT I KNOW THE COUNTY HAD LOOKED INTO WATER AND THEY'D EVEN TALKED TO FREDERICK COUNTY WATER. 
          AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, THEY WOULDN'T GO PAST DOUBLE TOLLGATE. 
          WELL, IT WAS, IT WAS GONNA BE ANOTHER LIKE WHATEVER, 50 MILLION, YOU KNOW, SOME, A HUGE NUMBER. 
          YEAH. 
          WHICH MAKES SENSE. 
          BUT ANYWAY, THAT, UNLESS, UNLESS COUNCILMAN INGRAM HAS ANYTHING ELSE TO OFFER, LIKE I SAID, THAT'S YOU ALL'S DECISION. 
          IT ACTUALLY PUTS THE TOWN IN A POSITION TO SELL MORE WATER AND, AND KIND OF PROBABLY GIVE US A MONOPOLY. 
          IF YOU REALLY WANNA KNOW THE TRUTH. 
          WE DO HAVE A MONOPOLY. 
          YEAH. 
          AND AS YOU SAID IT, THIS IS TRUE. 
          WE'VE INVESTED, WE'VE DECIDED TO INVEST IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO PUT IT UP THERE. 
          YES. 
          AND, UH, AND IT IS PROBLEMATIC FOR THE COUNTY, FOR THE CORRIDOR. 
          RIGHT. 
          UM, WHEN YOU HAVE SO LITTLE TO GIVE, I MEAN, YOU, YOU COULD SAY ALLOW US TO SELL MORE WATER, BUT YOU JUST DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH YEAH. 
          ACT, AND I'M TRYING TO THINK, WAS IT, MARK, WHICH MONTH DID WE, WHICH MONTH DID OUR CONSULTANTS COME IN? AND, AND ACTUALLY JUST LAST MONTH WE SAW OUR EXCESS, UH, WATER CAPACITY AND THEY GATHERED THAT UP AGAIN. 
          AND, AND, UM, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. 
          THERE'S ALL, THERE'S, IT'S NOT FINE. 
          RIGHT. 
          UM, I KNOW, BUT DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANTED TO ADD TO THAT PART? UH, NO, NO, MADAM MAYOR, TO YOUR POINT, I MEAN THIS, I, I TOOK THIS AS BEING A, A, A COUNTY ACTION. 
          AND LIKE YOU SAID, I MEAN, I, AS FAR AS THE WATER PROVISION WITHIN TOWN, I MEAN, I I, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, ANYBODY IN HERE, BUT THERE ARE ONLY A HANDFUL OF WELL USERS IN, IN TOWN. 
          I MEAN, MOST OF OUR PROVIDER, MOST OF OUR CITIZENS AND BUSINESS OR RESIDENTS BUSINESSES ARE IN, UH, YOU KNOW, ARE ON, UH, TOWN WATER. 
          BUT I, I I, I, I DO AGREE WITH HOW PROACTIVE IT COULD, UH, THIS PRESENTATION IS BECAUSE I THINK WE'VE SEEN MORE AND MORE, UM, NOT JUST HERE, BUT TO, TO SUPERVISOR JAMESON'S POINT IN OTHER AREAS, YOU'RE, YOU'RE CLEARLY SEEING THAT, YOU KNOW, DRILLING ONE WELL, ONE LOCATION, YOU KNOW, IT EASILY DRAW WELLS, DRAW OFF SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, SAME AQUIFERS. 
          SO DRILLING A WELL, ONE LOCATION IS GONNA PULL WATER, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY FROM ANOTHER, WELL, YOU KNOW, UH, IN A DIFFERENT AREA. 
          SO I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S BECOMING MORE AND MORE, AGAIN, IT'S BECOMING MORE NOTICEABLE. 
          SO WE HAVE A, UH, I, I MEAN, I, I, MY, MY, MY ONLY, MY MY ONLY QUESTION I GUESS YOU CAN SAY IS THAT THE COUNTY, IS THE COUNTY GOING TO MAKE THIS, YOU KNOW, JUST WRITE THIS INTO AN ORDINANCE? OR IS THERE, IS THERE ANY PLAN FOR WHAT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THE PROPOSAL IS. 
          I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, I SAW IT'S ORDINANCE, BUT IF THAT'S, I MEAN, AGAIN, I, FOR I I MEAN IF, IF MAYOR, CORPORAL, I MEAN, WE CAN GO BACK TO OUR BOARD, LET KNOW, I MEAN, LET OUR BOARDS KNOW. 
          I MEAN OBVIOUSLY IT'S, IT'S WHEN PUBLIC DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW, BUT, UM, BUT YEAH, I MEAN, I I, I APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION, UH, RICH. 
          AND LIKE I SAID, I I, I AGREE WITH IT. 
          LIKE I SAID, UH, I, I THINK THAT, UH, I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED NOW BECAUSE WE MAY NOT BE SEEING IMMEDIATE EFFECTS AT THIS VERY MOMENT, BUT ALL IT TAKES IS, WELL, IF YOU ARE SEEING THE EFFECTS, THEN IT'S TOO LATE. 
          WELL, WE, WELL, WE ARE, AND IT'S TOO LATE. 
          THAT'S THE POINT FOR, FOR THE, UH, YOU KNOW, THE DROUGHT CONDITIONS THAT WE'VE HAD, YOU KNOW, FROM THE RIVER WE, WE DRAW FROM THE RIVER, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, THAT'S ONLY THERE'S, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT. 
          YEAH. 
          THERE'S SURFACE WATER AND THE GROUND TABLE WATER. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT I UNDERSTAND, YEAH, THE COUNTY IMPACT AS FAR AS WATER PROVISION, YEAH, I MEAN IT'S DEFINITELY, UM, DEFINITELY A HUGE FACTOR FOR WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU GUYS ARE KIND OF DOING AND, UH, AND LOOKING FOR, YOU KNOW, UH, FUTURE PRESERVATION. 
          SO THAT'S ALL I'D SAY. 
          MAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY THAT YOU, THAT, THAT, THAT YOU MENTIONED 
          [02:15:01]
THIS. 
          MY, UH, UH, MY DAUGHTER AND SON-IN-LAW LIVE UP IN, IN VERMONT, AND THEY'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH THE SAME KIND OF DROUGHT CONDITIONS THAT WE HAVE. 
          AND, UH, THEY JUST BOUGHT A HOUSE ABOUT A YEAR AGO AND, AND IT'S GOT A CISTERN AND I'D SAY THE CISTERNS ABOUT 20 FEET DEEP. 
          AND SO IT WAS STARTING TO GET LOW AND MY SON-IN-LAW BOUGHT, I THINK HE SPENT $800 TO FILL IT BACK UP FOUR DAYS LATER. 
          HE WENT OUT THERE AND IT WAS BACKED DOWN TO THE SAME LEVEL. 
          AND SO HE CALLED A WATER SPECIALIST IN AND TOOK A LOOK AND, AND SAID, WELL, WHAT IT IS IS THAT THE CISTERN, IT'S, IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE SIDES ARE KIND OF POROUS AND THAT'S THE GROUNDWATER THAT HE'S PULLING OUT OF. 
          SO THE, UH, SO IT, IT WASN'T, IT WASN'T GETTING FILLED UP BY THE RAINWATER, IT'S GETTING FILLED UP BY THE GROUNDWATER. 
          SO I AUNT HAD A SISTER TOO. 
          SO THAT WAS INTEREST. 
          MR. PETTY, MR. SHAW, IS THERE ANYTHING YOU ALL WANNA ADD TO ANY OF THESE? THIS, THAT DISCUSSION OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? NO, NO. 
          MADAM MAYOR, LIKE I PROBABLY SAID ENOUGH TONIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THE, SO THE ONE ITEM THAT WE'VE GOT ON HERE IS TO, UH, IS FOR A WORKING SESSION. 
          THIS IS FOR THE, TO, TO ADD TO A WORKING SESSION ON THE, AND LET ME SEE WHERE, WELL, THAT'S OUR, THAT'S OUR NEXT MEETING IN JANUARY. 
          THAT'S THE NEXT MEETING IS OUR MEETING. 
          WELL, NO, THIS IS FOR THE, UH, TO ADD TO THE, TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. 
          OH, OKAY. 
          ABOUT, UM, THE, UH, TOURISM AND, AND TALK OH, OKAY. 
          FOR, FOR THE, FOR THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TO TALK ABOUT THIS AT THE WORKING SESSION. 
          OKAY. 
          AND WE NEED TO DO THE SAME WITH THE THREE. 
          I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA GO BACK AND REVIEW THIS MYSELF, BUT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT TOURISM, WHAT WE NEED TO DO ON OUR END TOURISM, WHETHER OR NOT WE WANNA SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH THE BATTLEFIELDS. 
          AND, UM, AND WHERES MY THIRD QUESTION? YEAH. 
          THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WHERE I DON'T WHERE YEAH. 
          YOU KNOW, DO I HAVE A, I KNOW I HAVE A QUESTION SOMEWHERE HERE. 
          UM, YEAH, THERE YOU GO. 
          OKAY. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          AND THEN IN JANUARY WE'LL COME BACK TOGETHER PERMANENTLY, BUT, BUT THE GOAL IS WE WANT COMMUNICATION PRIOR TO JANUARY 15TH. 
          IS THAT MY UNDERSTANDING? YES. 
          YES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, UH, SO I'D LIKE TO CONCLUDE OUR, OUR SESSION HERE AND, UM, SO WE, WE WILL ADJOURN. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.