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OKAY.[A. Presentation - Adult Services/Adult Protective Services]
UH, WE'LL START OUR WORK SESSION FOR TONIGHT, NOVEMBER 12TH.UH, CHAIRMAN BUTLER IS OUT OF TOWN.
SO AS VICE CHAIR, I'LL BE, UH, RUNNING THE MEETING.
AND, UH, BEFORE WE GET INTO OUR FIRST TOPIC, I JUST TOPIC, I JUST HAVE A QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT, UM, A REMINDER TO ALL OF YOU THAT WE HAVE THE JOINT MEETING WITH THE, UH, SCHOOL BOARD TOMORROW.
THAT'S A SPECIAL MEETING AT 6:00 PM IT'S AT DIVERSIFIED MINES IN THE MEETING ROOM THERE, WHICH IS AT 4 65 WEST 15TH STREET.
THE MEETING WILL BE SHOWN ON THE SCHOOL'S WEBSITE, NOT OURS.
AND, UH, A REMINDER TO ALL THE BOARD HERE TO BRING YOUR IPADS TO THAT MEETING.
UM, AND WITH THAT, THE FIRST TOPIC ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT, UH, WILL BE, UH, A PRESENTATION ON ADULT SERVICES AND ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES, UH, FROM JOHN MARS, DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL SERVICES.
THANK YOU, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.
UH, IT IS MY DISTINCT HONOR AND PLEASURE TO INTRODUCE TO YOU, UH, THE HARDEST WORK IN ADULT SERVICES UNIT IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA, AN AWARD-WINNING, UH, ADULT SERVICES UNIT HERE IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA.
OUR SUPERVISOR, BRENDA NORMAN, OUR ADULT SERVICES SPECIALIST.
UM, UM, AUDRA SELZER AND OUR TWO A PS SPECIALISTS, TASHA GRESS AND MEGAN VARDAMAN.
I'M BRENDA NORMAN, AND I LOST MY VOICE.
I'M THE SUPERVISOR FOR THESE WONDERFUL LADIES THAT ARE STANDING BEHIND ME.
UM, I'VE BEEN WITH THE AGENCY FOR ABOUT TWO AND A HALF YEARS, AND, UM, I WANTED THEM TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK ABOUT THE GREAT WORK THAT WE DO HERE FOR THE COUNTY.
SO THEY'RE GONNA BE MY VOICE TONIGHT.
UM, LIKE JOHN SAID, UM, MY NAME IS TASHA, AND IT'S ACTUALLY GARLA, SO, BUT GARLA INSTEAD OF GRESS, UH, GARLA IS A MARRIED NAME, BUT, UM, OKAY.
I MEAN, I'LL, I'LL GO AHEAD AND START.
UM, SO, UM, JOHN ALREADY INTRODUCED US.
SO, UH, WHAT, WHAT'S OUR ROLE? SO WE, WE LIVE BY THREE WORDS, STOP, PROTECT, PREVENT.
UM, SO FROM THE MOMENT A REPORT IS SCREENS IN FOR ADULT, UH, ABUSE, NEGLECT, OR EXPLOITATION, WE FIGURE OUT WHAT THE IMMEDIATE RISK IS FOR THAT CLIENT, WHETHER THAT BE LACK OF SUPERVISION, UM, LACK OF FOOD, WATER, MEDICATIONS, SO ON SO FORTH, NEED FOR A CAREGIVER DUE TO THE INABILITY TO TAKE CARE OF THEM THEMSELVES.
OR MAYBE A FAMILY MEMBER TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THEIR LOVED ONE'S FINANCES FOR THEIR OWN PERSONAL GAIN.
AFTER WE ESTABLISH THAT RISK, WE SEPARATE THE CLIENT FROM WHATEVER HARM THEY MAY BE FACING, WHETHER THAT BE PROVIDING CLIENT WITH FOOD, WATER, MEDICATIONS, UM, HELPING THEM FIND A CAREGIVER OR ASSISTING CLIENTS WITH LOOKING, LOCKING THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS OR ACCESSING THEIR INFORMATION OR SETTING UP A NEW POWER OF ATTORNEY, ADVANCED DIRECTIVE, THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, THEN ONCE WE FI, ONCE WE FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY NEED, WE COLLABORATE WITH THE CLIENT AND CREATE A SERVICE PLAN IN ORDER TO DECREASE THE CLIENT'S POSSIBILITY OF BECOMING ABUSED, NEGLECTED, OR EXPLOITED IN THE FUTURE.
BUT ANYWAY, SO WE HAD, WE HAD A TRUE OR FALSE QUESTION.
UM, SO, UH, A COMMON MISCONCEPTION IS THAT EVERY A PS INVESTIGATION IS, OR EVERY, EVERY REPORT IS AN INVESTIGATION.
SO WHAT QUALIFIES AS A VALID REPORT? THERE'S FOUR CRITERIA THAT MUST HAVE TO BE MET.
ONE, ADULTS ARE 18 TO 59 AND INCAPACITATED, OR 60 YEARS OR OLDER.
TWO, THEY HAVE TO BE LIVING AND IDENTIFIABLE.
UM, IDENTIFIABLE IS JUST, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO HAVE A NAME, DATE OF BIRTH, ADDRESS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN ORDER TO FIND THEM.
THE REPORT DESCRIBES A ABUSE, NEGLECT, EXPLOITATION AS DEFINED IN POLICY, WHICH I'LL GIVE YOU IN JUST A SECOND.
UM, AND THEN THE ADULT IS IN OUR JURISDICTION.
SOMETIMES WE GET REPORTS FROM WINCHESTER MEDICAL CENTER, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THEY, IF THE ABUSE, NEGLECT, OR EXPLOITATION HAPPENED HERE IN WARREN COUNTY, THEN THAT IS OUR JURISDICTION.
UM, SO THESE ARE THE THREE DEFINITIONS PER POLICY.
UM, ABUSE AND INTENTIONAL ACTION OR ACTIONS THAT CAUSE PHYSICAL HARM, EMOTIONAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL DISTRESS, OR UNLAWFUL RESTRICTION OF MOVEMENT.
THIS CAN INCLUDE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE STREAMING FROM ACTUAL PHYSICAL HARM BY CREATING A CREDIBLE FEAR OF SEVERE HARM OF A FAMILY MEMBER OR A HOUSEHOLD MEMBER.
UH, NEGLECT AN ADULT WHO IS CONSIDERED AT
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RISK BECAUSE OF THEIR INABILITY TO MEET THEIR OWN BASIC LIFE REQUIREMENTS, EITHER DUE TO THEIR OWN LIMITATIONS OR BECAUSE SOMEONE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CARE IS FAILING TO PROVIDE NECESSARY SUPPORT.AND THEN THE EXPLOITATION, UM, THAT'S JUST STEALING OR MISUSING THEIR OWN FUNDS OR PROPERTY FOR THEIR OWN PERSONAL GAIN.
SO IN FISCAL YEAR 24, WE HAD A TOTAL OF 431 REPORTS.
AND LIKE TASHA SAID, NOT EVERY REPORT BECOMES AN INVESTIGATION.
140 OF THOSE REPORTS DID MEET CRITERIA AND WERE SENT FOR INVESTIGATION.
OUT OF THOSE 140, 56% OF THEM ENDED UP BEING UNFOUNDED, WHICH BASICALLY MEANS WHEN WE COLLECTED ALL THE EVIDENCE, WE HAVE TO HAVE A PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE, WHICH IS 51% OR HIGHER.
AND SO IF IT DOESN'T MEET THAT THRESHOLD, THEN WE HAVE TO SAY THAT THE REPORT IS UNFOUNDED.
UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, MOST OF THOSE WERE SELF NEGLECT.
48% OF THEM, 23% WERE NEGLECT, 15% WERE EXPLOITATION.
WE'RE SEEING THAT NUMBER GO UP AS TIME GOES ON BECAUSE OF FINANCIAL SCAMS. UNFORTUNATELY, THEY'RE GETTING MORE AND MORE SMART AND GETTING NEW AND DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET TO OUR SENIORS AND, YOU KNOW, DECEIVE THEM OR TRICK THEM INTO HANDING OVER THEIR INFORMATION.
SO WE ARE SEEING EXPLOITATION CASES GO UP 8% WHERE PHYSICAL ABUSE AND 6% WERE MENTAL ABUSE.
UM, 9% OF THE INVESTIGATIONS WERE INVALID, WHICH MEANS THAT WHEN WE GOT THE REPORT, WE SCREENED IT IN THAT IT MET CRITERIA, BUT AS WE GOT INFORMATION, WE REALIZED THAT IT IN FACT DID NOT MEET CRITERIA.
SO THEN IT'S CONSIDERED INVALID AND WE STOP INVESTIGATING.
OH YEAH, REALLY QUICK FOR UNFOUNDED CASES.
JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT SOMETHING'S HAPPENING DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE JUST STOP AND WE SAY BYE.
I'M A LITTLE BIT TALLER THAN THE REST OF MY TEAM.
UM, I'M AUDRA, SO I DO ADULT SERVICES, SO MINE'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FROM THESE GUYS.
UM, SO I DO THE SCREENINGS FOR THE COUNTY, WHICH ARE FOR OUR MEDICAID WAIVERS AND ALSO FOR THE AUXILIARY GRANT.
UM, SO THE MEDICAID WAITER IS THE CCC PLUS WAIVER, WHICH IS THE, UM, COORDINATED CARE WAIVER.
SO THERE'S FOUR OPTIONS WITH THAT.
UM, THEY CAN HAVE A CONSUMER DIRECTED, WHICH IS HAVING LIKE A FRIEND OR FAMILY MEMBER BE THEIR PAID CAREGIVER.
THEY CAN HAVE A STANDARD IN-HOME HEALTH AGENCY, SOMEBODY COME IN, CHECK ON THEM DURING THE WEEK.
UM, THE FOURTH IS, UH, I MEAN THE THIRD IS A NURSING FACILITY.
UM, AND THEN THE FOURTH ONE IS NEW IN OUR AREA IS THE PACE PROGRAM, WHICH IS DONE THROUGH BLUE RIDGE INDEPENDENCE IN WINCHESTER.
UM, IT'S LIKE AN ALL INCLUSIVE ADULT DAY CENTER.
SO I WORK IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT, UM, AND WE GO AND DO SCREENINGS EVERY TUESDAYS FOR, UM, ASSISTED LIVING, THERE IS WHAT'S CALLED AN AUXILIARY GRANT.
AGAIN, IT'S KIND OF LIKE A MEDICAID FUNDED BED.
UM, BUT FOR THAT I CAN JUST DO THOSE MYSELF BECAUSE AN ASSISTED LIVING ISN'T A NURSING LEVEL OF CARE.
UM, SO I DO ALL THE SCREENINGS FOR ALL OF THAT.
FUN FACT, THERE'S ONLY ONE ASSISTED LIVING IN WARREN COUNTY THAT ACCEPTS THE AUXILIARY GRANT, WHICH IS WOODS COVE.
BESIDES THAT, YOU HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY ANYWHERE IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA.
I ACTUALLY PLACED A GUY IN VIRGINIA BEACH.
UM, SO, AND WITH THE NURSING FACILITIES, WE HAVE THE TWO NURSING FACILITIES HERE IN WARREN COUNTY.
UM, AGAIN, THEY HAVE LIMITED WAIVER BEDS AS WELL.
SO WE'RE ALWAYS LOOKING OUTSIDE OF THERE.
UM, AS FAR AS GUARDIAN CONSERVATORSHIP, SO SOMETIMES WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT NEED A PERSON AND WE BECOME THE PERSON FOR THOSE PEOPLE, UM, THAT WE BECOME THEIR GUARDIAN.
WE BECOME THEIR CONSERVATOR UNTIL WE CAN TURN IT OVER TO A PUBLIC GUARDIAN.
UM, SO WE'LL HANDLE ALL THEIR BUSINESS, BE THEIR BEST FRIENDS, HAVE THE BEST INTEREST IN MIND, UM, AND THEN WE WOULD HAND IT TO A PUBLIC GUARDIAN AS WELL AS GUARDIANSHIPS.
UM, I GET ALL OF THE ANNUAL REPORTS FOR ALL THE GUARDIANSHIPS IN WARREN COUNTY.
SO THAT'S ANYBODY WHO HAS GUARDIANSHIP OR CONSERVATORSHIP OF ANYBODY IN THEIR FAMILY AS A FRIEND, WHOEVER IT MIGHT BE.
I HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL OF THOSE REPORTS ANNUALLY, UM, APPROVE THEM, AND THEN I SEND THEM TO THE, UM, COURT THAT THEY STARTED OUT AT.
UM, AND THEN FOR, SO PREVENTION, IT'S A LOT OF KIND OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
WE GET A LOT OF CRISIS CRISIS APPLICATION.
THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE CRISISES, UM, WHICH CAN BE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE, BUT IT CAN ALSO BE OTHER THINGS LIKE, UM, CLOTHING.
IT CAN BE LIKE CHORES AND CLEANING.
UM, FOR OUR CRISIS, WE SEE A LOT OF ELECTRIC BILLS, LOTS OF NEED OF HELP WITH ELECTRIC BILLS.
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SEE A LOT OF LIKE RENTAL ASSISTANCE.UNFORTUNATELY WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, ALWAYS HAVE THE MEANS FOR RENTAL ASSISTANCE, BUT THEN FOR CHORES AND CLEANING, UM, THEY WOULD COME TO ME.
ADULT SERVICES IS COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY.
I CANNOT TELL THEM THEY HAVE TO OPEN A CASE WITH ME.
I CAN TELL THEM WHAT SERVICES I CAN OFFER IF THEY WANT TO OPEN A CASE WITH ME.
UM, SO WE DO DO SOME CLEANING SERVICES IF SOME PEOPLE ARE IN NEED OF, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE STUFF THEY GOT OVERWHELMING, WHETHER IT BE DIRTY HOARDING, WHATEVER THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE.
UM, AND WE WILL THEN USE AN AGENCY OR A COMPANY TO GO IN THERE AND TAKE CARE OF THAT, UM, FOR RESPITE CARE.
SO THAT'S ALSO LIKE AN IN-HOME CAREGIVER.
UM, THAT WOULD BE LIKE THE AGENCY PAYING TO HAVE SOMEONE IN THE HOME, YOU KNOW, IN AN EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCE, YOU KNOW, THEIR CAREGIVER PASSED AWAY AND WE CAN'T FIND SOMEBODY TO FILL THAT SPOT.
OR A PS CLIENTS THAT JUST NEEDED, I KNOW SOMEONE IMMEDIATELY WE WOULD PAY FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UM, AND I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT THE SCREENINGS ARE MEDICAID FUNDED.
SO ALL OF THOSE FOUR OPTIONS I TALKED ABOUT FOR THE WAIVER, THEY ALL ARE FUNDED THROUGH MEDICAID ONLY.
SO THE CLIENT ALSO HAS TO BE APPLYING FOR MEDICAID AND GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS AS WELL AS GETTING THE SCREENING DONE.
ALRIGHT, SO WE HAD ANOTHER TRUE OR FALSE.
UH, ANOTHER COMMON MISCONCEPTION IS THAT WORKING WITH ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES OR ADULT SERVICES IS MANDATORY AND IT'S NOT.
SO IN FISCAL YEAR 24, THOSE STATS I GAVE YOU EARLIER, 10% OF THOSE FOUNDED CASES, THE, THE ADULT REFUSED SERVICES.
SO EVEN IF WE GET TO THE END OF A CASE AND WE SAY, YES, THIS PERSON NEEDS HELP, YES, WE HAVE THE RESOURCES TO HELP THEM, THEY CAN SAY NO, THANK YOU.
ONE EXAMPLE THAT HAPPENS KIND OF FREQUENTLY IS THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO GET REPORTED TO US FOR SELF NEGLECT BECAUSE OF HOARDING.
AND MOST OF THE TIME WHEN WE GO IN THOSE HOMES, THEY'RE GOING TO TURN DOWN CLEANING SERVICES.
AND SO ALL WE CAN DO IS JUST OFFER THE SERVICES, BUT WE CAN'T FORCE THEM TO TAKE THEM.
ALSO, LIKE AUDRA SAID, IF SOMEONE COMES IN FOR A CRISIS APPLICATION, THEY HAVE TO BE WILLING TO SIGN UP FOR AN ADULT SERVICES CASE.
AND IF THEY DON'T WANT TO DO THAT, WE HAVE TO RESPECT THEIR RIGHT NOT TO.
UH, AND FOR THE CCC PLUS WAIVERS, SOMETIMES WE GET FAMILIES THAT CALL IN OR CAREGIVERS THAT CALL IN AND SAY, THIS PERSON NEEDS TO BE IN A FACILITY.
WE NEED TO GET THEM A SCREENING.
IF AUDRA GOES OUT THERE TO THEIR HOUSE AND THEY SAY, I DON'T WANT A SCREENING, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT, SHE CAN'T FORCE THEM TO TAKE THAT SCREENING.
SO ANY QUESTIONS? I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU.
UM, IT'S, IT'S A SHAME THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS, BUT WE DEFINITELY HAVE TO HAVE THIS.
UM, AND UH, MY MOM, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, SHE'S IN ASSISTED LIVING, BUT SHE'S CONTINUALLY GETTING SCAMMERS COMING AFTER HER AND SHE'S FALLEN FOR A COUPLE OF 'EM.
THERE'S MAYBE WORSE THINGS ON HERE, LIKE, LIKE ABUSE FROM A FAMILY MEMBER.
BUT IT'S, IT'S SO GOOD THAT YOU ARE THERE TO, TO HELP SORT OUT THE SITUATIONS AND PROTECT THESE PEOPLE.
I NEED TO BRAG ON THEM JUST FOR A SECOND IF I COULD.
UM, THEY HAVE BEEN RECOGNIZED BY OUR REGIONAL PARTNERS AND OUR STATE PARTNERS IS ONE OF THE, UM, MOST IMPROVED UNITS IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA.
UM, ABOUT A YEAR AGO WE HAD ONE PERSON AND, UM, THESE LADIES HAVE COME IN AND THE WHOLE ATTITUDE OF THE PROGRAM HAS CHANGED FROM, GEE WHIZ, WE CAN'T HELP YOU TO, LET'S ALL SIT DOWN AND FIGURE OUT A WAY OF WHAT WE CAN DO.
AND THEY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO STAY WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THEIR ROLES, BUT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY CITIZEN GETS THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THOSE SERVICES.
AUDRA WAS TALKING ABOUT THE GUARDIANSHIPS.
UM, AUDRA DOES ANYWHERE FROM FOUR TO EIGHT TO 10 ASSESSMENTS A WEEK, UM, FOR THE UIS.
AND MEGAN AND TASHA ARE CONSTANTLY GOING OUT WORKING WITH CLIENTS.
UM, THEY'RE CONSTANTLY COMMUNICATING WITH THEIR COWORKERS, TRYING TO HOOK PEOPLE UP WITH SERVICES IN THE COMMUNITY.
UM, THEY TAKE WHAT THEY DO SO SERIOUSLY BECAUSE IT IS, AND I'M GLAD THEY HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO BE RECOGNIZED BY YOU BECAUSE THEY ARE TRULY AMAZING AT WHAT THEY DO AND WE APPRECIATE HAVING THEM IN OUR AGENCY.
SO THANK YOU LADIES, APPRECIATE HERE'S YEAH, NO, IT'S JUST ONE THING AND IT'S, UH, SOMETHING THAT YOU MAY NOT REALIZE.
UM, UNLIKE CPS, CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES, ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES, IF WE HAVE A FINDING, UM, AND WE HAVE AN ABUSER, WE DON'T HAVE ANY SORT OF REGISTRY THAT THEY GO ON.
SO LET'S SAY THAT THERE WAS, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT A NURSING FACILITY EARLIER, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEONE WAS FOUNDED TO, YOU KNOW, UM,
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NEGLECTING CLIENTS IN THE FACILITY, WHICH WE'VE HAD, UNFORTUNATELY IN THIS COUNTY, WE DON'T HAVE ANY SORT OF WAY OF HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE.UM, ALL WE CAN DO IS JUST, YOU KNOW, OUR JOB IS STRICTLY FOR THE CLIENT.
THAT'S WHERE WE TURN IT OVER TO THE STATE AND THEY COME IN AND THEY DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.
BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY SORT OF REPRIMAND.
YOU KNOW, WE CAN OFFER THIS TO LAW ENFORCEMENT, WE CAN OFFER THIS TO THE STATE, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY WAY OF HOLDING ANYTHING ACCOUNTABLE, WHICH IS, IT'S FRUSTRATING MM-HMM
BECAUSE IF THEY WERE TO GET FIRED FROM THAT FACILITY FOR SOME REASON, YOU KNOW, IF THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE GONNA KNOW THAT SOMETHING HAPPENED.
WE CAN'T, IF THEY GET HIRED ON AT ANOTHER FACILITY, WE CAN'T TELL THEM THAT, OH, THEY WERE JUST RECENTLY FIRED AT THIS FACILITY FOR NEGLECTING THEIR CLIENTS.
SO IT'S, IT'S FRUSTRATING AND WE SEE IT WAY MORE OFTEN THAN, THAN NOT.
BUT UM, THAT'S, THAT'S ONE MAJOR DIFFERENCE THAT WE SEE A LOT WITH THAT CPS DOES THAT WE, WE DO NOT HAVE.
SO I DID WANNA POINT THAT OUT THERE, THERE USED TO BE, AND I'M, I'M STRUGGLING TO COME UP WITH THE NAME.
THERE WAS A, A, A LADY, SORT OF LIKE A GUARDIAN AD LITEM OR AN ADVOCATE THAT WOULD, UM, I KNOW SHE CAME TO THE FACILITY.
I USED TO BE DIRECTOR OF NURSING OF, UM, IS THAT, IS THAT YOU
I WAS THE LONG-TERM CARE OMBUDSMAN BEFORE I CAME.
IT WASN'T, IT WASN'T YOU, IT WAS SOMEONE ELSE.
BUT YES, I WAS, THAT'S WHERE I WAS BEFORE THIS AND THEN THEY STOLE ME.
SO
IT'S BEEN A WHILE, BUT I KNOW THERE WAS A YEAH, THEY'RE AN ADVOCATE FOR PEOPLE IN LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES AND THEY ALSO DON'T HAVE REALLY ANY RECOURSE OTHER THAN JUST THEIR WORD AND THE REGULATIONS TO GO ON.
WE DO WORK IN TANDEM WITH THEM WHEN WE HAVE FACILITY CASES.
UM, BUT WE KIND OF DO DIFFERENT WORK.
THEY CAN INVESTIGATE ANYTHING.
UM, THE OMBUDSMAN CAN INVESTIGATE LIKE BAD FOOD OR, YOU KNOW, I DON'T LIKE MY ROOMMATE WHERE WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT ABUSE, NEGLECT OR EXPLOITATION PIECE.
UM, SO WE ARE KIND OF PARTNERS, LIKE WE HAVE DIFFERENT RESPONSIBILITIES AND SOMETIMES WE OVERLAP, BUT MOSTLY WE KIND OF LIVE IN OUR OWN REALMS. I ONLY MET HER UM, ONE TIME AND IT WASN'T BECAUSE OF AN ISSUE SHE WAS JUST COMING AROUND TO, AND I COULDN'T REMEMBER WHAT THAT WAS, BUT I KNEW IT WAS SOMETHING THAT, SEE, WHEN WE SEE GOOD PEOPLE, WE STEAL THEM
SO, UH, TWO QUICK THINGS 'CAUSE I KNOW YOU NEED TO MOVE ON.
ONE, THERE WILL BE A BILL IN FRONT OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO ESTABLISH AN A PS REGISTRY.
UM, THE PROBLEM THEY'VE HAD WITH IT HISTORICALLY IS THAT YOU DON'T WANNA PUT SOMEBODY IN THEIR REGISTRY IF THEY WERE FOUNDED FOR SELF-ABUSE OR SELF NEGLECT MM-HMM
UM, AND SO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS WORKING THROUGH THAT.
SO WE MAY WANT TO TALK TO ANY DELEGATES THAT WE MAY HAVE ABOUT SUPPORTING THAT BILL.
AND SHIFTING GEARS REAL QUICK, I WAS TALKING TO MR. GOTHEL BEFORE WE STARTED.
UM, THE HOUSE REPRESENTATIVES IS SUPPOSED TO BE MEETING AT SEVEN O'CLOCK TO VOTE ON THE CONTINUING RESOLUTION TO REOPEN THE GOVERNMENT.
THIS IS A BIG DEAL BECAUSE SNAP, AS YOU KNOW, HAS BEEN UNFUNDED, UH, FOR THE ENTIRE MONTH OF NOVEMBER.
AND ONCE IT IS PASSED BY THE HOUSE, IT'S ALREADY PASSED THE SENATE AND THE PRESIDENT SIGNS IT.
UH, WE ARE EXPECTING SNAP TO BE RETURNED IN FULL, UH, HOPEFULLY WITHIN THE WEEK.
WELL THANK YOU LADIES FOR ALL YOU DO APPRECIATE IT.
[B. Discussion - Award of Contract for FY-24 Cash Reconciliation Services ]
A DISCUSSION OF THE AWARD OF CONTRACT FOR FY 24 CASH RECONCILIATION SERVICES.AND I THINK, UM, MS. KA, ARE YOU PRESENTING THAT? THANK YOU.
TONIGHT'S ITEM IS A DISCUSSION FOR THE AWARD OF CONTRACT FOR THE FY 24 CASH RECONCILIATION SERVICES.
I PROVIDED A COVER SHEET IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET FOR TONIGHT THAT PROVIDED A BRIEF HISTORY OF WHERE WE ARE TODAY WITH THE FY 24 AUDIT DELAY.
I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND SKIP AHEAD TO THE LATEST MEETING THAT WE HAD WITH THE AUDITORS.
UH, A COUPLE OF THE CPA CONTRACTED FIRMS ON OCTOBER 21ST.
UH, IT WAS R-F-C-A-V-M-L, VACO CLEARPOINT, BARRY DON, UM, AND COUNTY STAFF, WHICH WAS INCLUSIVE OF, UH, BRAD GACHO, MYSELF AND A MEMBER OF THE TREASURER'S OFFICE.
MICHELLE FREDERICK REPRESENTING THE TREASURER ON HER BEHALF.
FOLLOWING THAT CALL, VIMA VACO CONFIRMED COMPLETION OF THE RECONCILIATIONS FOR THE BANK ACCOUNT ENDING IN 8 4 4 3 BY OCTOBER 31ST.
UH, AT THIS POINT, UM, WE TURN TO BARRY DUNN AFFIRM THAT HAS PREVIOUSLY SUPPORTED THE COUNTY THROUGH OUR FINANCIAL
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SYSTEM REPLACEMENT AND GENERAL LEDGER IMPLEMENTATION TO ASSESS THEIR CAPACITY TO PERFORM RECONCILIATIONS FOR THE SECOND ACCOUNT, WHICH IS BANK ACCOUNT ENDING IN 2 9 4 1.SO BARRY DUNN HAS SUBMITTED A PROPOSAL FOR A ONE TIME ENGAGEMENT TO COMPLETE THESE CASH RECONCILIATIONS.
THEIR FAMILIARITY WITH OUR SITUATION, COUPLED WITH THEIR PROVEN RECORD OF ACCURACY AND TIMELINESS, MAKES THEM A STRONG PARTNER TO ENSURE WE PROGRESSIVELY MOVE FORWARD IN ORDER TO CLOSE OUT FY 24 AUDIT SUCCESSFULLY.
SO THIS PROJECT IS ESSENTIAL TO COMPLETING THE FY 24 AUDIT STAFF, RECOMMENDS THAT THE BOARD APPROVE THE PURCHASE ORDER TO BARRY DUNN TO COMPLETE THE RECONCILIATION WORK ON BEHALF OF THE TREASURER'S OFFICE.
AND WE HAVE REPRESENTATIVES FROM BARRY, DON, I'M SORRY.
UM, SO THEY ARE GOING TO BE ON A TEAMS CALL WITH US TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THEIR PROPOSAL, UH, A LITTLE BIT OF A BACKGROUND ON THEIR FIRM, UH, HOW WE CAME TO THIS POINT AND WHAT THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH A LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE THAT IT WILL BE DONE IN A TIMELY FASHION.
SHOULD WE START, I DUNNO IF ANYBODY CAN SEE US OR HEAR US.
UM, SHOULD WE START GOING WITH OUR PRESENTATION? WE CAN ABSOLUTELY HEAR YOU.
WE HAVE A GORGEOUS TURTLE ON THIS SCREEN.
I'M NOT SURE IF IT CAN HELP US GET THE TEAM'S, UH, VIDEO UP ONLINE, BUT THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD DO HAVE YOUR PRESENTATION.
SO IF AT ALL, WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO, WE CAN GO THROUGH THAT.
I'LL TURN IT OVER TO YOU, KATIE.
I'LL SHARE MY SCREEN JUST IN HOPES THAT EVENTUALLY IT DOES SHOW UP ON THE PLATFORM, BUT I'LL UM, POINT TO WHERE WE ARE IN THE PRESENTATION AS WE GO ALONG.
UM, OH, LEMME JUST MAKE SURE I HAVE THIS UP.
UM, I GUESS BURIED ON TEAM, AM I SHARING IT OR DID I STOP SHARING? IT STOPPED.
ARE WE SEEING THE PRESENTATION? OKAY.
SO THANK YOU FOR HAVING US TONIGHT.
SO AS WAS JUST DISCUSSED, WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE CONTRACT TO ASSIST THE COUNTY WITH THE CASH RECONCILIATIONS FOR THE PERIOD OF JANUARY 1ST, 2024 TO JUNE 30TH, 2024.
UM, WE'VE PREVIOUSLY BEEN ENGAGED TO ASSIST THE COUNTY WITH THE FISCAL YEAR 25 AUDIT PREPARATION, AS WELL AS SOME CLEANUP WORK RELATED TO THE TRIAL BALANCE FOR THE INCOMING ERP CONVERSION.
UM, BUT THIS WORK HAS NOT BEGUN YET AS WE'RE STILL REALLY IN THE STATE OF WORKING THROUGH FISCAL YEAR 24 FINANCIALS AND THE AUDIT ITSELF.
UM, SO WE PUT TOGETHER A SLIDE DECK TO REALLY INTRODUCE YOU TO THE FIRM.
SO THIS, THE NEXT SLIDE ON HERE IS REALLY OUR AGENDA.
SO WE'RE GONNA START BY INTRODUCING YOU TO THE TEAM MEMBERS THAT WE HAVE HERE, AS WELL AS A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF THE FIRM.
UM, WE'RE GONNA TALK THROUGH, THROUGH SOME SUCCESSFUL SIMILAR PROJECTS THAT WE'VE HAD, REALLY GO INTO A LITTLE MORE DETAIL IN TERMS OF OUR EXPERTISE AND OUR EXPERIENCE WITH SOME OF YOUR SPECIFIC SOFTWARE.
UM, AND THEN WE'LL TALK THROUGH REALLY THE REASONS WHY BARRY DUNN WOULD BE THE BEST PROJECT FOR THIS PROJECT GOING FORWARD.
AND THEN WE CAN LEAVE SOME TIME AT THE END FOR ANY QUESTIONS EITHER THE BOARD OR MANAGEMENT HAS.
UM, SO MOVING ON TO SLIDE THREE, THREE, STARTING WITH THE ENGAGEMENT TEAM.
SO REALLY THIS SLIDE JUST INCLUDES THE MANAGEMENT MEMBERS OF THE OVERALL TEAM.
SO I'M KATIE LUCAS, I'M A PARTNER HERE AT BARRY DUNN.
I HAVE OVER 16 YEARS WORKING, UM, EXPERIENCE WORKING WITH GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES, WHETHER THEY'RE DOING FINANCIAL STATEMENT AND UNIFORM GUIDANCE AUDITS, AS WELL AS THE VARIETY OF CONSULTING SERVICES INCLUDING AUDIT READINESS, TECHNICAL ACCOUNTING ASSISTANCE, AND ACCOUNT RECONCILIATION SERVICES.
UM, ALL THE WORK THAT I'VE DONE HAS BEEN IN THE GOVERNMENTAL OR NOT-FOR-PROFIT SPACE, AND MOST OF MY CLIENTS ARE EITHER COMPONENT UNITS OF STATES AS WELL AS LOCAL GOVERNMENTS INCLUDING CITIES, TOWNS, COUNTIES, AND IN SPECIAL, UM, PURPOSE DISTRICTS.
AND I CAN TURN IT OVER TO A, TO DO A BRIEF INTRODUCTION AS WELL.
I'M A MANAGER HERE AT MARY DUN.
UH, BEFORE BARRY DUN, I WAS A, I WAS AN AUDITOR, LIKE A FINANCIAL AUDITOR, LIKE STRICTLY FOR LIKE GOVERNMENTAL, UH, UH, ENTITIES.
DID THAT FOR OVER 10, 12 YEARS AND THEN DECIDED TO GET OUT AUDITING AND KIND OF USE MY EXPERTISE TO HELP HELP CITIES, TOWNS, UH, COUNTY MORE LIKE, LIKE, LIKE PREPARE FOR AUDIENCE RATHER THAN DO THE AUDIENCE AND JUST TAKE SOME LIKE LESS STRESS OFF OF, OFF OF LIKE THESE GOVERNMENTS OFF OF MY, UH, OFF THESE LIKE NINETIES.
UM, AND NOW I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR ABOUT THREE TO FOUR YEARS NOW.
UM, HERE
I'M KRISTEN WEST AND I WORK WITH, UH, KATIE AND NOW, AND I'M THE GOVERNMENTAL CONSULTING TEAM HERE AT BARRY DUNN.
I HAVE, UH, JUST ABOUT 15 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE PROVIDING GOVERNMENTAL ADVISORY SERVICES TO ORGANIZATIONS SUCH AS YOURSELF, UH, CITIES, COUNTY SPECIAL
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DISTRICTS, UM, DOING TECHNICAL ACCOUNTING, AUDIT READINESS, UM, AND UH, SUPPORTING ERP IMPLEMENTATION, UH, TYPE SERVICES.SO IN ADDITION TO THE THREE OF US, WE ALSO HAVE TWO SENIORS AND TWO STAFF ON OUR TEAM.
WHICH WOULD WE HAVE REALLY INVOLVED IN COMPONENTS OF THIS PROJECT? SHOULD WE BE SELECTED MOVING FORWARD? UM, SO REALLY JUST A HIGH LEVEL ABOUT BARRY DUNN.
I KNOW THAT YOU ARE CURRENTLY WORKING WITH JOHN GRACE AND ANOTHER TEAM AT BARRY DUNNE ON THE ERP CONVERSION.
SO WE REALLY WON'T SPEND TOO MUCH TIME TALKING ABOUT A HIGH LEVEL OF THE FIRM.
BUT OVERALL, WE'RE A FIRM THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOR JUST OVER 50 YEARS.
UM, FROM A FIRM MINE PERSPECTIVE, WE HAVE THE BDMP ASSURANCE, WHICH IS A SLIGHTLY NEW ENTITY WHICH REALLY HOUSES ALL OF OUR AUDIT SERVICES.
AND THEN WE HAVE BARRY DUN MCNEIL AND PARKER, LLC, WHICH IS THE, UM, PARENT COMPANY WHICH OVERSEES ALL OF OUR CONSULTING AND TAX WORK.
UM, I'M A PRINCIPAL IN BOTH OF THE ENTITIES, WHICH IS WHY I DO BOTH THE AUDIT AND THE CONSULTING WORK.
UM, FROM A FIRM LINE PERSPECTIVE, WE ARE RANKED TOP 50 BY ACCOUNTING TODAY.
UM, WE HAVE JUST OVER, I'D SAY WE HAVE JUST UNDER A THOUSAND EMPLOYEES THIS NUMBER, THE 9 35, UM, IS PROBABLY ABOUT TWO MONTHS OLD AT THIS POINT.
SO WE'RE JUST UNDER A THOUSAND EMPLOYEES AND WE ARE PART OF THE BDL ALLIANCE.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE BECAUSE WITHIN THE BDL ALLIANCE WE HAVE SOME OF THE RESOURCES, TECHNICAL RESOURCES, RESOURCES FOR OUR CLIENTS FOR TRAINING THROUGH THE BDL ALLIANCE.
WE'RE NOT AFFILIATED WITH BDO, WE'RE JUST PART OF THEIR ALLIANCE PROGRAM, WHICH JUST OFFERS A LOT MORE OPPORTUNITY FROM TRAINING SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS AS WELL AS SOME ADDITIONAL TRAININGS THAT OUR CLIENTS CAN PARTICIPATE IN.
UM, WE HAVE 10 OFFICES THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES AS WELL AS ONE IN, UM, PUERTO RICO AND OUR NEWEST ONE IN HAWAII OPENED EARLIER THIS YEAR.
UM, SO BEFORE I TURN IT OVER TO ALAN AND KRISTEN TO REALLY WALK US THROUGH SOME OF THE SUCCESSFUL PROJECTS THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST, I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT A COUPLE THINGS THAT FROM A COUNTY PERSPECTIVE, FROM A GOVERNMENTAL PERSPECTIVE, YOU'RE NOT ALONE IN SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT YOU'RE FACING BEING BEHIND IN ACCOUNT RECONCILIATIONS AND AUDITS.
UM, OVERALL FROM AN ACCOUNTING PERSPECTIVE, WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT PIPELINE ISSUE, WHICH IS CAUSING SIGNIFICANT STRAIN ON ENTITIES TRYING TO FILL VACANT ACCOUNTING ROLES.
UM, SINCE ABOUT 2020, THERE'S BEEN A 17% DECREASE IN THE AMOUNT OF INDIVIDUALS GOING INTO PUBLIC ACCOUNTING FIELD, UM, AS WELL AS THE AMOUNT OF STUDENTS THAT ARE GOING INTO THE ACCOUNTING PROFESSION.
AND THAT'S ALL COUPLED WITH ABOUT 75% OF THE ACTIVE CPAS TODAY ARE SET TO RETIRE IN THE NEXT 10 YEARS.
UM, SO THIS IS VERY MUCH A PROBLEM THAT IS NOT JUST IMPACTING YOUR ACCOUNTING, NOT JUST IMPACTING OR REACHING, BUT IT'S REALLY NATIONWIDE AND IT REALLY STEMS FROM IT JUST BEING A PIPELINE ISSUE OVERALL AND REALLY GETTING PEOPLE INTO THESE ACCOUNTING ROLES, WHICH IS LEADING TO A LACK OF SKILL SETS TO HIRE INDIVIDUALS, UM, TO REALLY MEET THE GOVERNMENTAL NEEDS OVERALL.
SO I JUST WANTED TO PAINT THAT PICTURE IN THE BACKGROUND TO JUST LET YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN SOME OF THESE CHALLENGES, UM, WHICH IS WHY UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE SOME SIMILAR PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE, UM, WORKED ON IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.
SO ALAN, DO YOU WANNA WALK US THROUGH WITH YOU? OF COURSE, KATIE.
SO THESE THREE, UH, CITIES AND TOWNS READY ARE I DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN.
AND A COUPLE OF THESE TOWNS WHERE YOU WERE AS FAR BACK, LIKE THEY, THEY HAVEN'T HAD CASH RECONCILIATIONS DONE SINCE 2020 OR 2021.
AND WE'VE GOTTEN THEM PRETTY CLOSE TO LIKE, TO LIKE UP TO DATE.
UM, AND LIKE THE BIGGEST THING TO NOTE IS THAT EACH, EACH OF THESE CLIENTS ARE DIFFERENT.
THEY HAVE DIFFERENT NUMBER BANK STATEMENTS, LIKE SOME OF THEM ONLY HAVE ONE OR TWO BANK STATEMENTS, LIKE OTHER THEM, THEY HAVE 50 60 BANK STATEMENTS.
SO EACH, EACH ONE OF THESE PROJECTS WAS KIND OF SIMILAR, BUT THEN THEY ALSO ARE LIKE UNIQUE AND LIKE WE DO UNDERSTAND HOW LIKE CASH RECONCILIATIONS CAN BE UNIQUE FOR EACH ENTITY.
AND EVEN THOUGH THAT, LIKE IT WORKS STRICTLY WITH GOVERNMENT ENTITIES, EVERYBODY DOES THINGS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY.
SO WE REALLY LIKE TO EMPHASIZE LIKE COLLABORATION WITH OUR CLIENTS, UH, MEANING THAT LIKE, WE LIKE LEVERAGE LIKE, LIKE THE KNOWLEDGE AND LIKE THE EXPERTISE THAT LIKE YOU GUYS ALREADY HAVE.
SO WE'RE NOT GONNA LIKE REINVENT THE WHEEL.
UM, WE'LL JUST LEVERAGE LIKE WHAT YOU GUYS KNOW SO THAT WE CAN GET TAUGHT UP AS AS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
UM, AND LIKE ANOTHER THING THAT I JUST WANNA, UM, EMPHASIZE IS, IS LIKE THE COMMUNICATION, UM, WE LIKE THESE CLIENTS.
IT'S NOT LIKE, LIKE WE'LL JUST WORK ON OUR OWN OR LIKE, YOU GUYS WORK ON YOUR OWN.
WELL, WE'LL SET UP LIKE WEEKLY OR BI OR LIKE BIWEEKLY MEETINGS SO THAT, SO THAT EVERYBODY LIKE STAYS ON TASK AND LIKE WE KNOW WHERE, WHERE THESE TASKS RECONCILIATION STANDS ON LIKE A WEEKLY BASIS.
IT'S NOT JUST LIKE, HEY, LIKE WE'RE GONNA GO AND DO IT.
IT'S LIKE THREE MONTHS FROM NOW, LIKE TWO MONTHS FROM NOW, LIKE WHERE THINGS STAND.
LIKE THAT'S NOT HOW, HOW HOW WE LIKE TO LIKE APPROACH THESE.
IT'S, IT'S, IT'S COMMUNICATION, UH, SO THAT YOU GUYS KNOW EXACTLY WHERE, WHERE, WHERE WE STAND AT LIKE ALL TIMES.
AND THAT'S WHAT OUR OWN STAFF AS WELL AS KATIE MENTIONED, WE HAVE OTHER STAFF MEMBERS THAT THAT, THAT
[00:30:01]
THAT, THAT WE HAVE ON OUR TEAM.AND THEN WE, WE, WE COLLABORATE.
WE COULD LIKE COLLABORATE WITH THEM AS WELL TO MAKE SURE THAT NOBODY'S GONNA SPIN THEIR WHEELS OR, OR DO TASKS THAT ARE LIKE INEFFICIENT.
UM, AND THEN ONE OF THE ASPECTS THAT, THAT OUR CLIENTS LIKE VALUE, LIKE THE MOST, I THINK IS CREATING PRACTICAL TOOLS AND TEMPLATES THAT THAT WILL GET THEM THAT LIKE ONCE THAT THEY'RE ON TRACK, THAT THESE TEMPLATES AND TOOLS AND PROCESSES THAT LIKE WE HELP DEVELOP IT, IT WON'T PUT YOU GUYS IN THE SAME SPOT AGAIN TWO OR THREE YEARS FROM NOW.
LIKE ONCE I, ONCE YOU GET CAUGHT UP, THAT GOAL IS TO KEEP YOU GUYS CAUGHT UP USING THESE TEMPLATES THAT LIKE, THAT LIKE WE'VE, UM, THAT WE'VE CREATED SO THAT YOU GUYS CAN JUST STAY ON TRACK GOING FORWARD.
SO, SO THAT'S A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, ABOUT THESE PROJECTS THAT WE'VE DONE.
THEY'RE ALL LIKE UNIQUE TAILORED, BUT WE REALLY LIKE LOOK AT THEM ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS AND, AND DO WHAT, WHAT'S BEST FOR LIKE YOU GUYS.
AND I'LL MAKE IT OVER FIRST NOW TO TALK MORE ABOUT YOUR SPECIFIC ACCOUNTING SOFTWARE AND HOW KNOWLEDGE WITHOUT, WITHOUT, WITHOUT SOFTWARE.
UH, WELL ONE THING I CAN SAY ABOUT WORKING AT MANY DIFFERENT AGENCIES IS, UH, WE LIKE TO THINK THAT WE'VE SEEN IT ALL
SO WE DRAW FROM KIND OF OUR PREVIOUS EXPERIENCES, UM, AND IN ORDER TO APPLY A DIFFERENT, UM, CREATIVE SORT OF OUT OF THE BOX APPROACH, UM, TO THE WAY THAT WE APPROACH THE CASH RECONCILIATION, MEANING THAT, LIKE ALEX SAID, WE'RE NOT GONNA CREATE THE WHEEL, UH, RECREATE THE WHEEL.
WE WERE GONNA RELY HEAVILY ON, UH, THE WORK THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE BY THE STAFF THAT'S ALREADY THERE.
THE KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE INSIDE YOUR ORGANIZATION, UM, AND THE KNOWLEDGE THAT WE HAVE OF THE ACCOUNTING SYSTEM THAT YOU'RE CURRENTLY WORKING IN.
UM, WE HAVE EXPERIENCE THAT, THAT WORKING AT OTHER AGENCIES, SPECIFICALLY THE, THE BRIGHT ACCOUNTING SYSTEM, UH, WE KNOW IT'S NUANCES, IT'S CHALLENGES AND SORT OF HOW IT BEHAVES, UH, FUNCTIONALLY AT THE MODULE LEVEL, AT THE TRANSACTION LEVEL.
AND THEY CROSS-DEPARTMENTALLY, UH, BETWEEN THE TREASURER'S DEPARTMENT AND THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT AND HOW SOME OF THOSE WORK WELL AND SOME OF 'EM DON'T.
UM, THERE ARE SOME REPORTING LIMITATIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN PERIODS ARE OPEN, YEARS ARE STILL, UM, SORT OF, UH, NOT CLOSED IN THE EVENT SYSTEM THAT CAN CREATE SOME RECONCILIATION CHALLENGES.
UH, NOT TO MENTION HOLDING UP CLOSING THE YEAR AND THEN MOVING ON TO AUDITS AND IMPLEMENTATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO, UM, WE'VE ALREADY HAD SOME DISCOVERY SESSIONS, UH, WITH THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT AND, UH, THE TREASURER'S DEPARTMENT TO ASK THOSE, THOSE KEY QUESTIONS.
UM, DRAWING FROM OUR KNOWLEDGE FROM OUR PAST EXPERIENCE, WE'VE, UH, GATHERED SOME GOOD POINTERS THAT WE FEEL THAT BASED ON OUR PRIOR EXPERIENCE AND, UH, WORKING CLOSELY AND COLLABORATIVELY ACROSS OUR FIRM AND, UH, WITH YOU ALL THAT, UH, WE'D BE PRETTY SUCCESSFUL IN BUILDING THOSE TEMPLATES, UH, RELYING ON OUR SOURCE AUGMENTATION AND BE ABLE TO, UM, GET THE BANK RECONCILIATIONS TIED OUT FOR YOU.
UM, SO REALLY AFTER ALL OF THAT, WHY BARRY DONE SO ON THIS SLIDE, WE'VE JUST INCLUDED A FEW REASONS WHY PEOPLE HAVE COME TO US.
LIKE I SAID, WE ENCOUNTERED THIS SITUATION SEVERAL TIMES IN THE LAST FEW YEARS IN TERMS OF BEING BEHIND ON BANK RECONCILIATIONS AS WELL AS BEING BEHIND ON, UM, AUDITS OVERALL.
AND SO THESE ARE REALLY JUST A FEW OF THE REASONS WHY OUR CLIENTS HAVE SAID THEY'VE COME TO US.
UM, SO THE FIRST ONE IS THEY DON'T WANT TO GET IT WRONG.
UM, HAVING AN AUDIT, HAVING BEING AUDITABLE, HAVING COMPLETE RECONCILIATIONS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU REALLY WANNA GET FISCAL YEAR 24 BEHIND.
YOU REALLY START GETTING UP TO DATE ON FISCAL YEAR 25 AND THEN BEING ABLE TO MOVE INTO A NEW SYSTEM IN A NEW YEAR, UM, AND REALLY START OFF ON THE RIGHT FOOT IN TERMS OF HAVING ALL OF YOUR RECORDS UP TO DATE.
UM, SO THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO US.
WE WANNA SEE ALL OF THOSE MILESTONES BE HIT ALONG THE WAY AND YOU WANT IT DONE ACCURATELY.
UM, THIS MIDDLE ONE IS THAT OUR CLIENTS REALLY DON'T LIKE SURPRISES.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE'VE HEARD THROUGH OTHER FIRMS THAT THERE'S BEEN SURPRISES AT LAST MINUTE OR, UM, DOCUMENTS BEING DELAYED OR LATE.
AND SO REALLY ONE THING WITH OUR FIRM IS THAT WE ARE ON TOP OF OUR COMMUNICATION.
WE ARE VERY TRANSPARENT IN TERMS OF OUR APPROACH, OUR PROGRESS, OUR FEES, AND ANY CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE ENCOUNTERING ALONG THE WAY.
UM, AS ALAN MENTIONED, WE DO SCHEDULE WEEKLY CHECK-IN MEETINGS WITH OUR CLIENTS, SO WE HAVE THAT DEDICATED TIME WITH YOUR FINANCE TEAM TO WALK THROUGH ANY, UM, ISSUES OR CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE ENCOUNTERING AT A POINT IN TIME.
UM, WE REALLY WANNA TACKLE THOSE RIGHT OFF THE BAT AND NOT HAVE THOSE DELAY OUR DELIVERABLES AND OVERALL PROGRESS.
AND THEN THE OTHER THING TOO IS WE DO WORK WITH OUR CLIENTS TO DEVELOP A CADENCE TO PROVIDE FORMAL EITHER BIWEEKLY OR MONTHLY STATUS UPDATES TO MANAGEMENT.
AND THAT CAN BE IN THE FORM OF A MEMO AND THE FORM OF ANOTHER MEETING JUST SO THAT WAY YOUR TEAM IS AWARE OF THE PROGRESS THAT'S BEING MADE AND THERE'S
[00:35:01]
NO SURPRISES AS IT RELATES TO WHEN OVERALL DOCUMENTS WILL BE COMPLETED.AND THEN THE LAST ONE IS WE HEAR THAT OUR CLIENTS WANT GREAT TEAMMATES, UM, WITH THESE ENGAGEMENTS, WHICH IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN THE AUDIT SIDE OF THINGS.
AND WHY I THINK MYSELF AND ALAN BEING PRIOR AUDITORS REALLY ENJOY THE CONSULTING WORK IS WE REALLY GET TO WORK ALONGSIDE YOUR TEAM AND BE CONSIDERED YOUR TEAMMATE.
UM, WE REALLY WANNA WORK THROUGH YOUR CHALLENGES AND GET THROUGH TO THE FINISH LINE AS A, IN TERMS OF GETTING THROUGH YOUR AUDITS.
UM, AND WE REALLY WANT YOUR TEAM MEMBERS TO SEE US AS A TEAM MEMBER, AS A TRUSTED PARTNER THAT THEY CAN WITH ANY QUESTIONS COME UP ALONG, YOU'RE THROUGH THE RECONCILIATIONS AND CLOSING OUT THE YEAR.
UM, SO THAT'S ALL THAT WE HAD PLANNED FROM A PRESENTATION STANDPOINT, SO WE CAN OPEN IT UP TO ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS THAT EITHER THE BOARD OR MANAGEMENT HAS.
UM, YOU DID ANSWER SEVERAL QUESTIONS AND I JUST WANNA REITERATE THEM.
THE REPORTING INTERVAL, UM, I THINK I HEARD BIWEEKLY, UM, IS THAT RIGHT? YES, BIWEEKLY.
SO WE'D BE ABLE TO PROVIDE A BIWEEKLY STATUS UPDATE THAT WE COULD PROVIDE TO MANAGEMENT TO, UM, THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR THAT ULTIMATELY COULD MAKE IT OVER TO THE BOARD.
UM, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH SEVERAL OF OUR CLIENTS IS THAT WE DEVELOPED THAT CADENCE TO PROVIDING A FORMAL MEMO AS TO WHERE WE'RE AT WITH THE STATUS OF EVERYTHING.
IS THERE A, I, I HAVEN'T SEEN IT, BUT IS THERE A DATE, UH, A DATE, SPECIFIC COMPLETION DATE? UH, WE DO, EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THE AUDITOR'S COMING BACK JANUARY 12TH, SO THE GOAL IS TO GET IT DONE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, BUT WE HAVE NOT CONFIRMED A SOLID DATE OF WHEN THE 24 CASH RECONCILIATIONS WOULD BE DONE.
WE HAVE NOT FORMALLY ENGAGED WITH BARRY DUNN FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT.
THEY ARE AWARE OF THE SITUATION, THEY'VE DONE IT BEFORE.
THEY'RE THE CRISIS MANAGEMENT TEAM.
THEY'VE HAD ACCESS TO SPECIFIC FILES SO THEY CAN SEE THE PROGRESS THAT HAS BEEN MADE.
SO THEY KNOW THAT GAP THEY NEED TO FILL IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE PROJECT, BUT WE STILL NEED TO FIGURE OUT A A A COMPLETION DATE.
SO YOU SAID WE HAVEN'T ENGAGED WITH HIM YET, BUT YET THE, THE WORD DISCOVERY SESSIONS WAS, WAS USED, UH, BY, BY, UH, THESE FOLKS.
SO DOES THAT MEAN THAT THEY ACTUALLY HAVE SEEN OUR ACTUAL DATA AND, AND OUT OF OUR ACTUAL SYSTEM? WE ARE ENGAGED WITH THEM FOR THE FY 25 PREP AUDIT PREP, AS WELL AS GENERAL LEDGER CLEANUP.
SO THEY HAVE SEEN OUR GENERAL LEDGER AND SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WE'RE FACING AND THEY WERE ALSO PART OF THE CALL ON OCTOBER 21ST.
SO ALL I'M SEARCHING FOR IS THAT THEY'VE ACTUALLY SEEN OUR SYSTEM AND OUR DATA AND ARE CONFIDENT THAT THEY CAN MEET THAT DATE.
UH, YES, WE HAVE SEEN, UM, RECORDS, WE'VE SEEN WHAT'S BEEN PUT TOGETHER BY JOHN AS WELL AS, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING FROM THE OTHER FIRM, BUT WE'VE SEEN WHAT JOHN'S PUT TOGETHER FROM, AS WELL AS WHAT INTERNALLY THE FINANCE TEAM HAS PUT TOGETHER FROM AN ACCOUNT RECONCILIATION STANDPOINT.
SO WE HAVE SEEN SOME OF THE DATA, WE'VE DONE SOME DISCOVERY SESSIONS, WHICH WERE IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO REALLY DETERMINE THE SCOPE AND MAGNITUDE OF THE WORK.
I THINK WITH ONE OF THESE ENGAGEMENTS, WHAT CAN BE CHALLENGING IS THE FACT THAT THERE'S A LOT OF UNKNOWNS STILL IN TERMS OF, OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S CAUSING THE RECONCILIATION ISSUES FROM OUR EXPERIENCE WITH WORKING WITH SIMILAR ORGANIZATIONS WITHIN BRIGHT, WE HAVE AREAS THAT WE'LL BE LOOKING INTO RIGHT AWAY AS THERE'S CERTAIN AREAS THAT WERE THE ISSUE FOR OTHER CLIENTS.
SO WE'VE CERTAINLY LEARNED FROM OUR CLIENTS AND WE'LL BE USING THAT INFORMATION, BUT AGAIN, IT'S, WE HAD TO DO SOME OF THAT DISCOVERY JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE CONFIDENT IN, UM, MOVING FORWARD TO SUBMIT A CONTRACT TO DO THE WORK AS WELL AS BEING ABLE TO COME UP WITH A, A REASONABLE ESTIMATE IN TERMS OF A, NOT TO EXCEED FROM A FEE PERSPECTIVE.
ONE OF 'EM IS, IS THERE, UM, ARE ANY OF THE THREE OF YOU DIRECTLY GONNA BE WORKING ON THIS PROJECT? YES, ALL THREE OF US WILL BE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THIS PROJECT OVERSEEING, UM, MANAGING ALL OF THE WORK SESSIONS AND MANAGING THE WORK THAT IS BEING COMPLETED BY STAFF.
WE DO TRY TO LEVERAGE STAFF AS THEIR TASKS THAT THEY CAN DO.
UM, BUT ULTIMATELY THERE'S A LOT OF HIGH LEVEL WORK THAT WILL BE DONE BY THIS GROUP OVERALL.
AND FINAL QUESTION IS ON A NOT TO EXCEED NUMBER, I MEAN, I THINK YOU HAVE A FAIRLY HIGH RISK, UM, SITUATION AND SO YOU'RE, YOU ARE, UM, YOU KNOW, A NOT TO EXCEED MEANS NOT TO EXCEED, BUT, UH, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU'LL WILL SPEND THAT MUCH, UM, THE, THE, CAN YOU, I, I KNOW THIS IS A DIFFICULT QUESTION, BUT CAN YOU KIND OF, CAN, YOU KNOW, WITH BIWEEKLY UM, REPORTING, WE SHOULD GET AN, HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF
[00:40:01]
THE OUTLAY OF TIME THAT'S BEEN SPENT SO FAR AND HOW, YOU KNOW, HOW WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TRACK IT.BASICALLY AT SOME POINT IN TIME, WE SHOULD SEE IF THIS IS GONNA CONVERGE TOWARD A A 40 K OR A, YOU KNOW, A, A 60, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, IT COULD BE AS BAD AS A HUNDRED, THAT'S ALL WE GOT, BUT, BUT MM-HMM.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT JUST BRIEFLY? YEAH, SO WITHIN THE, UM, BIWEEKLY OR A BIWEEKLY MEMO, WE'LL ALSO IMPROVE, INCLUDE THE HOURS TO DATE AS WELL AS THAT RUNOFF FROM THE A HUNDRED THOUSAND.
SO YOU CAN SEE WHERE YOU ARE, BUT YOU'LL ALSO SEE WHAT TASKS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED ASSOCIATED WITH THE HOURS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT INTO IT.
SO IT IS SOMETHING THAT, YES, FROM A RISK STANDPOINT, SINCE THERE'S, LIKE I SAID, STILL A LOT OF UNKNOWNS, THAT'S WHY WE HAD TO DO A FAIRLY HIGH NOT TO EXCEED.
BUT THE OTHER PIECE TOO IS FROM DOING THESE ENGAGEMENTS, WE'VE DONE ENGAGEMENTS WHERE IT'S 18 MONTHS WORTH OF ACCOUNT RECONCILIATIONS.
SO THAT'S WHERE WE'VE COME UP WITH A HUNDRED THOUSAND IN TERMS OF JUST UNDERSTANDING WHERE THOSE CLIENTS WERE AT.
BUT THE OTHER PIECE TOO IS THAT THERE IS WORK THAT THE TEAMS HAVE PREVIOUSLY DONE IN TERMS OF IDENTIFYING, UM, THE OUTSTANDING CHECKS.
THERE'S EASY TRANSACTIONS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN MATCHED AND IDENTIFIED.
SO THAT'S THE OTHER PIECE TOO IS THAT WE'RE NOT STARTING FROM SCRATCH LIKE SOME OF OUR OTHER CLIENTS, WHICH IS WHY REALLY WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH A HUNDRED THOUSAND NOT TO EXCEED, BUT AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S A NOT TO EXCEED, SO IT'S NOT, YOU COULD BE 50,000 YEAH.
TO US FROM SOME OF THE UNKNOWN.
SO IT'S A TIME MATERIALS AND IF IT'S 30 OR 50 OR 70, YOU'RE STILL GONNA BE SATISFIED BECAUSE THAT'S YOUR BUSINESS MODEL.
WILL YOU HAVE, UH, PEOPLE ON SITE HERE AT ALL FOR ANY AMOUNT OF TIME OR WILL THIS BE ENTIRELY REMOTE? UM, SO KRISTEN IS LOCATED IN NORTH CAROLINA, HAS FA FAMILY IN VIRGINIA.
SO THERE IS THE ABILITY FOR ONSITE TIME IF NEEDED, AS WELL AS WE HAVE TEAM MEMBERS THAT ARE ACCUSTOM TO TRAVELING AS WELL.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING TOO THAT WE GAUGE WITH THESE ENGAGEMENTS, WHETHER, UM, WHAT IS MOST USEFUL IN TERMS OF THAT ONSITE TIME OR NOT.
UM, WE HAVE PRIMARILY BEEN DOING THE WORK REMOTELY TO DATE, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT AS WE REALLY START TO GET INTO THE DATA, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAN BE HELPFUL SOMETIMES IF WE TRY TO BE ON SITE TO EASE THE ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN.
SO IF THERE'S A LOT OF DOCUMENTATION THAT IS PAPER THAT WE NEED TO SEE.
THAT'S THE OTHER PIECE TOO IS WE TRY TO GAUGE IS IT MORE, IS IT GOING TO MORE EFFICIENT FOR OUR TEAM MEMBERS TO BE ON SITE AS WELL AS EASING THE ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN ON YOUR TEAM MEMBERS FOR US TO BE ON SITE.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'LL BE IN COMMUNICATION WITH, WITH MANAGEMENT TO DETERMINE WHAT IS THE BEST APPROACH ON A WEEK TO WEEK BASIS.
AND, UH, FOR, FOR THAT NOT TO EXCEED COST, UM, IF THE COUNTY FOR WHATEVER REASON IS UNABLE TO PROVIDE INFORMATION ITEMS THAT YOU NEED AND, AND YOU SPEND MORE EFFORT CHASING THAT UP, HAVE YOU FACTORED THAT POSSIBILITY IN? UM, I'M JUST THINKING OF WORST CASE WAYS THINGS COULD GO FURTHER SIDEWAYS.
SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK HAVING OPEN LINES OF COMMUNICATION WITH THE BOARD CAN BE IMPORTANT IF WE'RE HAVING ANY CHALLENGES GETTING DOCUMENTATION, UM, SO FAR FROM THE EXPERIENCE THAT WE HAVE, HAVE HAD, WE HAVE NOT HAD ISSUES GETTING DOCUMENTATION MM-HMM
BUT I THINK HAVING THE OPEN LINES AND KNOWING THE BOARD MEMBERS, THAT'S WHEN IT'S HELPFUL SO THAT WAY WE CAN ALERT IF WE'RE ENCOUNTERING ANY CHALLENGES BEFORE IT BECOMES A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE.
AGAIN, WE TRY TO STAY ON TOP OF IT, SO WE WON'T, WE WON'T LET IT GO SEVERAL WEEKS WITHOUT RECEIVING DOCUMENTATION.
WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT WE STAY ON TOP OF IT.
UM, AND THE OTHER PIECE TOO IS WHEN WE PROVIDE REQUEST ITEMS IN TERMS OF WORKING THROUGH RECONCILIATIONS, HAVING A LIST OF QUESTIONS AS WELL AS HAVING ANY DOCUMENTATION REQUESTS, WE'LL BE PROVIDING DUE DATES AS WELL.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING TOO THAT WE CAN INCLUDE IN THE OVERALL STATUS UPDATES IN TERMS OF WHAT'S BEEN REQUESTED TO DATE DUE DATES AND THE ADHERENCE TO THE DUE DATES.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING TOO THAT WE CAN ALSO INCLUDE IN THERE JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY'S, UM, BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR PIECES OF THE ENGAGEMENT.
DO WE HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS? Y'ALL GOT ALL THAT APPRECIATE THE AS CAN SUBMIT.
UM, I, I HAVE A RELATED QUESTION ACTUALLY FOR OUR COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR.
IF, IF YOU COULD STAY THERE JUST IN CASE THERE'S FURTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS.
UM, SO MR. GACHO, ON THE REPORT THAT YOU SENT OUT, UH, JUST BEFORE THE MEETING, UH, ON THE LAST PAGE, I, I SAW A TIMELINE THAT HAD CRITICAL DEADLINES, BUT IT DID LAY OUT SORT OF AN END-TO-END PLAN FOR WHEN THE AUDIT MIGHT BE ISSUED.
AND I WANTED TO CHECK, UH, TWO THINGS.
ONE HAS BURIED DONE, BEEN READ INTO THAT, UH, SO THAT THEY'RE AWARE OF THAT POTENTIAL TIMELINE AND HOW DRAFT IS THAT AT THIS POINT? UH, SO THEY, THEY, UH, THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION, SIR.
[00:45:01]
BEEN PROVIDED THE, THE ACTUAL REPORT THAT YOU'RE REFERENCING, BUT, UH, THEY HAVE BEEN READ INTO OUR GENERAL TIMELINE AND AS REFERENCED BY DIRECTOR SCOTT, THEY, BARRY DUNN IS, EXCUSE ME, IS AWARE OF OUR ANTICIPATED TOTAL COMPLETION DATE.SO WE, I THINK, UH, THROUGH DIRECTOR SCOTT'S WORK WITH BARRY DUNN, UM, WE'RE KIND OF GONNA BE WORKING BACKWARDS FROM THAT, THAT TARGET COMPLETION DATE.
SO I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S THE GOAL.
AND EVERYTHING THAT WE DO THROUGH BARRY DUNN AND, UH, THROUGH INTERNAL WORK IS GOING TO BE WORKING, LIKE I SAID, KIND OF BACKWARDS FROM THAT DATE TO ENSURE THAT WE, THAT WE MEET THAT, THAT THAT TARGET DATE.
AND DO YOU HAVE THAT, UM, THAT REPORT AT YOUR FINGERTIPS RIGHT NOW? UH, YEAH, I CAN.
YES, BECAUSE I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT ONE OF THE DEADLINES ON THE LAST PAGE.
UM, THERE WAS A DEADLINE THAT SAID, UH, ON A CERTAIN DATE, BARRY DUNWOOD RECEIVE ALL, UH, 2 9 4 1, WHICH IS AN ACCOUNT.
UM, AND THAT DATE LOOKS OUT OF SEQUENCE FROM THE OTHERS, AND I'M WONDERING IF THAT DATE IS CORRECT? HMM.
UH, A YEAH, MR. SCOTT, ARE YOU YEAH, UH OH.
AND SO IS THAT, WOULD THAT BE NOVEMBER, UH, NOVEMBER OF 2025? SOMETIME THIS MONTH? YES, I WOULD, I WOULD SAY THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETIME THIS MONTH.
THERE MIGHT BE THINGS HERE AND THERE THAT THEY MIGHT NEED TO, UH, GET FROM US, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, THEY DO HAVE A LOT OF THE INFORMATION IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO OKAY, OKAY.
SO THAT HELPS ME UNDERSTAND THIS BETTER AND, AND, UH, QUEUES UP MY NEXT QUESTION, WHICH IS FOR BARRY DUNN.
SO I, I THINK THE GENERAL TIMELINE, WHICH THE COUNTY HAS IN MIND IS, IS PRETTY AGGRESSIVE, WOULD REQUIRE A LOT OF EFFORT FROM YOU OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL WEEKS.
AND I'M JUST WONDERING IF, UM, BASED ON THE HOLIDAYS AND, AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT THAT IS, UH, WITHIN YOUR CAPACITY.
AND SO I JUST WANNA CONFIRM, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IN, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE DOCUMENT THAT YOU'RE SPECIFICALLY REFERENCING, SO WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ONE, THE FIELD WORK SCHEDULED FOR THE AUDITORS TO COME BACK THE WEEK OF JANUARY 12TH.
IS THAT THE DATE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT WE'RE BACKING UP? YEAH, THE FIELD WORK ON, ON JANUARY 12TH.
AND SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS AN AGGRESSIVE TIMELINE.
UM, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE DO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS WORK TO BE COMPLETED AND WE HAVE A TEAM, LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE THE THREE OF US AS WELL AS FOR OTHER DEDICATED TEAM MEMBERS.
AND THEN WE HAVE AN OUTSOURCE ACCOUNTING GROUP THAT WE WORK REGULARLY WITH THAT HAS ACCOUNTANTS THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO HELP AS WELL TO GET THROUGH THIS.
UM, SO THAT'S SOMETHING TOO THAT AS, AS WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THE INFORMATION, WE'VE WORKED ON TIGHT DEADLINES BEFORE AS WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THE INFORMATION, LIKE I SAID, THESE FIRST COUPLE OF WEEKS WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT TO START TO IDENTIFY WHAT ARE THE TRENDS, WHAT ARE THE ISSUES, AND IF THERE'S ANY CHALLENGES THAT WE SEE AT THAT POINT IN TIME, WE'LL VOCALIZE THEM.
UM, BUT AT THIS POINT WE'RE SET TO BE WORKING TOWARDS THOSE DEADLINES.
AND THEN MY QUESTION ON THE COUNTY SIDE IS TO, WILL WE HAVE, IF PEOPLE NEED TO FEEL FIELD QUESTIONS FROM THEM, UH, IN ORDER TO TURN INFORMATION BACK AND FORTH QUICKLY ENOUGH TO HIT THAT JANUARY 12TH AND WE HAVE THE HOLIDAYS INTERVENING AS WELL.
UH, ARE WE PREPARED FOR THAT? YES, THE FINANCE OFFICE AND ALSO IN COORDINATION WITH THE TREASURER'S OFFICE, WE'RE PREPARED TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THEY MIGHT HAVE OR ANY DOCUMENTATION THAT THEY MIGHT NEED.
I MEAN, I, THIS HAS BEEN, UH, AN EXTREMELY HIGH PRIORITY AND I I THINK YOU'VE BEEN HEARING THAT FROM US, MR. AND HAVE RESPO RESPONDED, UH, IN KIND.
SO, UM, WE'RE HAPPY TO SEE SOME TRACTION HERE.
AND THIS IS THIS, I THINK THIS IS GOOD.
SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I, I DON'T KNOW IF I PLACE THIS AS A QUESTION.
UM, MY CONCERN IS MOVING FORWARD ONCE WE GET THIS ALL DONE, UM, AND THESE RECONCILIATIONS, I DON'T WANNA SEE THIS TO BE A CONTINUING PROBLEM OR A REOCCURRING PROBLEM.
SO, AND I UNDERSTAND THE TREASURER'S, UH, CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICER, WHICH WE HAVE VERY LITTLE, IF ANY, OTHER THAN FUNDING THAT DEPARTMENT DOWN THERE.
THOSE, UM, THE STAFF IS COUNTY EMPLOYEES THAT ARE NOT ELECTED.
BUT I, I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME CROSS TRAINING SO THAT NOT ONE PERSON HAS ONE RESPONSIBILITY AND NOBODY ELSE KNOWS HOW TO DO IT.
[00:50:01]
OF, YOU KNOW, WHEN STAFF TURNS OVER, THERE SHOULD ALWAYS BE SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THAT'S, YOU KNOW, IN THE REMAINS IN THE OFFICE THAT CAN SHOW HOW TO DO PROCESSES MM-HMMAND, UM, LIKE I SAID, I, I KNOW WE HAVE VERY LITTLE INFLUENCE THERE, BUT TO ME THAT JUST MAKES SENSE THAT NOT, I MEAN THAT IN ANY DEPARTMENT, YOU KNOW, YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN SOMEONE IS GONNA GET SICK AND HAVE TO GO OUT OR WHATEVER REASONS THEY LEAVE EMPLOYMENT AND MOVE ON.
AND TO THINK THAT ONLY ONE PERSON IN THAT DEPARTMENT KNEW HOW TO DO THAT JOB IS TO ME, UM, NOT A GOOD THING.
AND I JUST, I JUST WANNA PUT THAT OUT THERE THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE A PROCESS IN PLACE WHERE PEOPLE ARE CROSS TRAINED AND THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN AGAIN.
UM, AND, UH, HOPEFULLY THE, THE TREASURER WILL PUT THAT IN HER BUDGET REQUEST IF NECESSARY TO, IF THEY NEED ANOTHER HEADCOUNT, BUT OTHERWISE JUST A STRONG RECOMMENDATION FROM US, UH, TO, TO DO THAT CROSS TRAINING.
AND, UH, SAME ON THE FINANCE SIDE.
IF YOU, IF YOU NEED RESOURCES TO DO THAT, PUT THAT IN YOUR BUDGET REQUEST.
YEAH, I THINK THAT, NOT JUST THAT SPECIFIC, BUT ANY DEPARTMENT, NO ONE DEPARTMENT SHOULD RELY ON JUST ONE PERSON TO DO ONE SPECIFIC JOB IF IT'S A MULTI STAFF DEPARTMENT.
IT JUST SEEMS TO ME, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU WOULD HAVE PEOPLE THAT COULD FALL INTO PLACE.
I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT VACATIONS, YOU'VE GOT ALL KINDS OF THINGS.
AND TO THINK THAT IF I GO ON VACATION FOR A WEEK, NOTHING THAT I AM ASSIGNED TO GETS DONE UNTIL I GET BACK JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSION ON THIS? OKAY.
WELL, THANK YOU, UH, KATIE AND ALAN AND KRISTEN FOR YOUR TIME AND, UH, FOR YOUR PRESENTATION, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU.
[C. Discussion - Legal Services Transparency and Review Policy ]
ON THE AGENDA IS A DISCUSSION OF LEGAL SERVICES, TRANSPARENCY AND REVIEW POLICY.UM, LAST THURSDAY, I, UM, EMAILED EVERYBODY THIS DRAFT FOR DISCUSSION.
UH, SO HOPEFULLY YOU'VE HAD TIME TO READ IT.
UM, I DON'T WANT TO, I DEFINITELY WON'T READ THE WHOLE THING.
I JUST WANNA READ THE PREAMBLE, UM, AND THEN TALK ABOUT THREE CORE IDEAS.
THE WARREN COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS RECOGNIZES THAT EFFECTIVE GOVERNANCE REQUIRES INFORMED DECISION-MAKING BASED ON APPROPRIATE LEGAL REVIEW, TRANSPARENCY AND PUBLIC DELIBERATIONS AND ACCOUNTABILITY, AND THE EXPENDITURE OF PUBLIC FUNDS FOR LEGAL SERVICES.
THIS POLICY, UH, I'M REFERRING TO THE DRAFT, UH, THAT I'M READING.
THIS POLICY ESTABLISHES PROCEDURES TO ENSURE THE BOARD MEMBERS HAVE ACCESS TO THE LEGAL WORK PRODUCT NECESSARY TO FULFILL THEIR DUTIES.
UH, THAT CLOSED SESSIONS ARE USED APPROPRIATELY IN STRICT COMPLIANCE WITH VIRGINIA FOIA AND THAT THE BOARD MAINTAINS OVERSIGHT OF LEGAL EXPENDITURES.
THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS RECOGNIZES THAT ELECTED OFFICIALS BEAR ULTIMATE RESPONSIBILITY FOR POLICY DECISIONS AND MUST HAVE ACCESS TO THE LEGAL AND FACTUAL BASIS FOR THEIR VOTES.
LEGAL COUNSEL'S ROLE IS TO INFORM BOARD DECISION MAKING.
BOARD MEMBERS HAVE A DUTY TO UNDERSTAND THE LEGAL REASONING AND UNDERLYING, UNDERLYING THEIR POLICY CHOICES.
AND TO REFER TO THAT REASONING PUBLICLY DURING DELIBERATION AND IN COMMUNICATION WITH INQUIRING CONSTITUENTS.
THE DUTY IS HEIGHTENED WHEN LEGAL GUIDANCE IS PROVIDED IN CLOSED SESSION WHEN THE NARROW CRITERIA FOR CLOSED SESSION OR MET.
IT IS PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT FOR BOARD MEMBERS TO HAVE COMPREHENSIVE INFORMATION UPON WHICH TO BASE THEIR DELIBERATIONS RATHER THAN DEFAULTING TO DEFERENCE THE COUNCIL'S OPINION.
IN THE ABSENCE OF SUCH INFORMATION, UH, THERE ARE THREE CORE IDEAS, UH, BEHIND THE POLICY.
ONE OF 'EM IS TO HAVE MORE OPEN, UH, DELIBERATION ABOUT WHEN SESSIONS WOULD BE CLOSED.
UH, THE OTHER IS TO HAVE ACCESS TO A LIT WRITTEN LEGAL WORK PRODUCT FOR MATTERS OF SIGNIFICANT POLICY IMPORT, UH, ENABLING INFORMED DECISION MAKING AND PUBLIC UNDERSTANDING OF LEGAL CONSIDERATIONS.
PUBLIC UNDERSTANDING IS INCLUDED, UH, AND REGULAR ACCOUNTABILITY FOR LEGAL SERVICES EXPENDITURES TO ENSURE, ENSURE PRUDENT USE OF PUBLIC RESOURCES.
UM, COUNTY'S BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS OVER $400,000 A YEAR.
UM, NOW, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, PART OF THIS POLICY IS A RECOMMENDATION FOR A QUARTERLY, UH, REPORT BY THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR OF LEGAL SERVICES EXPENDITURES TO CAN BREAK THOSE DOWN, ITEMIZE THOSE.
[00:55:02]
SO, YOU KNOW, JUST BRIEFLY, UH, IN TERMS OF THE WRITTEN WORK PRODUCT, UH, THERE, THERE'S A, AND I HAVE HAD A DISCUSSION, UH, WITH OUR, WITH OUR, OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY, MR. HAM.UM, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S, IT'S CLEAR AND HOPEFULLY CLEAR, BUT, BUT IF IT'S NOT CLEAR, IT COULD BE MADE MORE CLEAR THAT, UM, THE IDEA OF A, OF A WRITTEN WORK PRODUCT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE'S A LEGALLY A LEGAL SCHOLAR, UH, LAW REVIEW ARTICLE FOR EVERYTHING THAT, THAT HE TOUCHES.
UM, IT'S CLEAR THAT THE DETAIL OF A WRITTEN WORK PRODUCT SHOULD BE PROPORTIONATE TO THE SIGNIFICANCE AND COMPLEXITY OF THE MATTER UNDER CONSIDERATION IS THE WAY IT'S DRAFTED.
UM, BRIEFER MEMORANDA, UH, CAN BE, YOU KNOW, APPROPRIATE, UH, DEPENDING ON THE SIGNIFICANCE AND COMPLEXITY.
UM, SO, UH, IT CAN AND, AND TAKE MORE TIME.
BUT WHEN THERE ARE ORDINANCES AND POLICIES AND UH, REGULATIONS, UH, THAT THIS BOARD'S LIBERATING ON, IT'S, I THINK IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL FOR THE BOARD TO HAVE THE BENEFIT OF, OF A, UH, A, A WRITTEN WORK PRODUCT FROM, FROM OUR ATTORNEY SO THAT WE CAN, UH, READ IT, UNDERSTAND IT, HAVE TIME TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT IT, UM, AND NOT RELY SIMPLY AND ONLY ON, UH, VERBAL PRESENTATIONS, WHICH IN MY TWO YEARS ON THE BOARD HAS BEEN VERY, VERY MUCH PREDOMINANTLY, UM, THE CASE.
UM, IN TERMS OF CLOSED SESSION PROCEDURES, I THINK THAT, UH, IT'S, IT CAN'T HURT, UH, FOR THE PUBLIC TO BE, UH, MORE, UH, INVOLVED OR, OR HAVE BETTER VISIBILITY INTO THE IDEA OF, OF A PUBLIC, OF A CLOSED SESSION.
UH, ALSO HAVING US AS BOARD MEMBERS MYSELF, UH, YOU KNOW, ADVANCED NOTICE OF WHEN SOMETHING IS GONNA BE RECOMMENDED FOR CLOSED SESSION AND THEN, UH, BEING ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE REASON FOR THAT, UM, BEFORE SHOWING UP IN A MEETING AND JUST, AND, UH, AND HAVING TO MAKE A SNAP DECISION.
AND THEN THE THIRD, THE THIRD MAIN CATEGORY BEING QUARTERLY SERVICES REVIEW.
I THINK THAT, UM, IT JUST, YOU KNOW, IT MAKES SENSE, UH, THAT FOR AN EXPENDITURE OF 400,000 OR SO MORE THAT IS ON A CONTRACTED BASIS, UH, THAT WE DO UNDERSTAND SORT OF THE, THE BREAKDOWN OF HOW THAT MONEY'S BEING EXPENDED OVER TIME.
UM, I DO KNOW, UM, THAT ON A PER CAPITA BASIS, IT'S A, IT'S A PRETTY HIGH NUMBER COMPARED TO OUR NEIGHBORS.
UM, SO, UH, I THINK SOME, SOME QUARTERLY, UH, LOOK, LOOKING AT THAT ON A QUARTERLY BASIS WOULD BE A REASONABLE THING TO DO.
SO IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS, I'M, I THINK THIS IS THE TIME FOR DISCUSSION.
I, I'M UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THIS WHOLE THING.
IF, IF OUR ATTORNEY HAS NOT LOOKED AT IT, UM, I NEVER HAVE FELT THAT I WAS ASKED TO GO INTO A CLOSED SESSION.
IF I, IF WE DON'T WANNA GO INTO A CLOSED SESSION, YOU VOTE NOT TO GO INTO A CLOSED SESSION.
UM, I AM NOT A VERY TRUSTING PERSON, UM, AS IN GENERAL UNTIL I GET TO KNOW PEOPLE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, OUR ATTORNEY, WE'VE HAD A LOT TO DEAL WITH JUST IN MY SHORT TIME ON THIS BOARD, AND I'VE BEEN HERE SIX YEARS, UM, THAT WITHOUT LEGAL REPRESENTATION AND CONSULTATION, WE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO, TO MANEUVER IN IT.
AND I DON'T LIKE TO GO INTO CLOSED SESSION IF WE DON'T HAVE TO, BUT THERE ARE TIMES THAT YOU HAVE TO DISCUSS THINGS AND CLOSE, BECAUSE IF YOU DISCUSS THEM, IT'S NOT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE RESIDENTS OF THE AREA IN THE BLIND, BUT YOU CAN'T NECESSARILY TIP YOUR HAND TO THE PEOPLE THAT MIGHT WORK AGAINST YOU IN LEGAL MATTERS.
UM, JUST LIKE IF YOU'RE GOING THROUGH A LEGAL SITUATION, WHETHER FIRST THING CAME OFF MY HEAD, YOU'RE GOING THROUGH A CONTENTIOUS DIVORCE, YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE YOUR WIFE'S LAWYER AND YOUR WIFE OR YOUR HUSBAND, WHOEVER'S IN THE ROOM LISTENING TO YOUR STRATEGY ON HOW TO GET THROUGH THIS DIVORCE WITHOUT LOSING EVERYTHING IN THE KITCHEN SINK.
SO, UM, THERE, THERE ARE REASONS TO GO INTO IT.
I DON'T, I DON'T FEEL LIKE I'VE EVER BEEN ASKED TO GO INTO A CLOSED SESSION THAT I DIDN'T FEEL, UM, THAT WE HAD GONE IN FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.
AND OUR LAWYER IS, AS FAR AS THE COST, UM, WE USED TO HAVE TWO LAWYERS, AND WHEN YOU FIGURE IN THEIR BENEFITS, UM, FOR TWO LAWYERS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS, UM, THE WAY WE ARE NOW DOING IT, INSTEAD OF HAVING TWO FULL-TIME LAWYERS ON STAFF AND PAYING BENEFITS IN THE WHOLE THING, IS THAT IT'S ACTUALLY MORE COST EFFECTIVE FOR US, UH, TO BE DOING THIS THE WAY
[01:00:01]
WE ARE AND HAVING THE ACCESS TO WHATEVER LAWYERS WE NEED FROM LIT AND PSYCH.LIKE WE HAVE, UM, UH, MR. BOWMAN WHO DOES OUR PLANNING COMMISSION, BECAUSE THAT'S HIS WHEELHOUSE, IS DEALING WITH LAND AND LAND USES AND SO FORTH, WHERE WE WOULDN'T HAVE THAT NECESSARILY IF WE JUST HAD, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, THE LAST FULL-TIME, UH, LAWYER WE HAD ON STAFF WAS MORE FAMILY LAW THAN SHE WAS ALL GOVERNMENT LAW.
SO THERE'S THE, THE PROS AND THE CONS OF WHETHER WE HAVE A FULL-TIME, BUT WE, WE HAVE HAD SO MUCH TO DEAL WITH BETWEEN EDA AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT WE WOULD NOT HAVE WANTED TO ACCESS OUR LAWYER THE WAY WE DID.
I, I FEEL LIKE YOU'RE GIVING US LEGAL ADVICE BY DOING THIS.
THAT MAKES ME VERY UNCOMFORTABLE.
UM, AND I REALLY FEEL LIKE THIS IS A SLAP IN THE FACE TO OUR ATTORNEY TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE HE IS NOT BEEN DOING THE BEST HE COULD.
AND I, I THINK MR. HAM HAS DONE AN AMAZING JOB OF NAVIGATING US THROUGH A LOT OF DIFFICULT SITUATIONS.
AND HE DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE TREATED THE WAY THAT YOU WERE TREATING HIM WITH THIS.
UM, I JUST WOULD POINT OUT THAT IN NO WAY EVEN CLOSE, UH, DOES THIS POLICY INDICATE THERE WOULDN'T BE CLOSED SESSIONS.
IT JUST SIMPLY, SIMPLY BRINGS INTO A MORE PUBLIC PROCESS, UH, AND A AND A HIGHER LEVEL OF EXAMINATION BEFORE THE, THE TIME THAT WE GO INTO CLOSED SESSION, UH, WHETHER IT'S APPROPRIATE OR NOT.
BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN, UH, THE BOARD IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.
UM, THE, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY MAKES THE RECOMMENDATIONS.
UH, I'M NOT GONNA ADDRESS THE EMOTIONAL COMPONENT HERE.
UM, I DID DISCUSS THIS WITH MR. HAM.
HE EXPRESSED ALSO, UH, A SIMILAR SENTIMENT.
AND I JUST, YOU KNOW, WHEN I, WHEN WE HAVE A DISAGREEMENT ABOUT SOMETHING AND SOMEBODY BRINGS AN INITIATIVE FORWARD TO ADDRESS THAT, UM, THAT'S JUST POLICY.
THAT'S JUST A RECOMMENDATION OF POLICY.
UM, NOT GIVING LEGAL ADVICE AND RECOMMENDING A POLICY, UH, THAT WOULD PROVIDE GUIDANCE.
AND, AND A HUGE PART OF THIS IS ACCESS OF PUBLIC TO LEGAL DELIBERATION.
THERE, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY A TIME FOR CLOSED SESSIONS AND THERE IS A SPECIFIC STATUTE THAT DICTATES IT.
UM, THE, AND FOR THE PUBLIC TO HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THAT.
I KNOW FROM TALKING TO PEOPLE THAT, THAT THE, THE CLOSED SESSIONS ARE VERY FRUSTRATING, UH, TO PEOPLE AND THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.
AND, AND, UH, BRINGING THAT INTO MORE UNDERSTANDING, I THINK IS IMPORTANT.
AND REGARDING REGULATIONS AND, UM, ORDINANCES, THE PEOPLE I, I BELIEVE HAVE THE RIGHT TO UNDERSTAND THE LEGAL BASIS UPON WHICH WE ARE MAKING THOSE DECISIONS.
UH, AND I, I THINK THAT THERE IS NOTHING TO LOSE FROM THE TRANSPARENCY ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.
UH, THAT'S, THAT'S MY RESPONSE.
CAN YOU REVIEW WHAT WOULD THE CRITERIA BE FOR CLOSED OR NOT CLOSED? IF, IF WE HAD A, I I KNOW IT'S IN YOUR, YOUR WRITEUP, BUT CAN YOU, CAN YOU KIND OF SUMMARIZE IT WELL, SURE.
UH, THE, THE, THE SPECIFIC CITATION OF THE FOIA EXEMPTION, UH, WOULD NEED TO BE INVOKED.
UM, IT SAID THE REQUEST SHALL BE IN WRITING.
SO THE, THE SUGGESTION IS THAT THE POLICY IS THAT BEFORE A CLOSED SESSION, THE BOARD WOULD BE GIVEN THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION, A SPECIFIC CITATION OF THE FOIA EXEMPTION BEING INVOKED.
AND BY THE WAY, THIS IS, UH, THE WAY IT'S DRAFTED, 48 HOURS IN ADVANCE, A DESCRIPTION OF THE MATTER TO BE DISCUSSED WITH SUFFICIENT SPECIFICITY TO ENABLE BOARD MEMBERS TO ASSESS WHETHER THE STATUTORY OR CRITI CRITERIA ARE MET.
UH, FOR PROBABLE LITIGATION CLAIMS, A DOCUMENTATION OF THE SPECIFIC THREAT OR REASONABLE BASIS FOR BELIEVING LITIGATION WOULD BE COMMENCED, UH, INCLUDING IDENTIFICATION OF THE POTENTIAL PARTY IN THE DISPUTE NATURE OF THE DISPUTE, UM, FOR LEGAL MATTERS, CLAIMS IDENTIFICATION OF THE PARTICULAR LEGAL QUESTION REQUIRING CONFIDENTIAL LEGAL ADVICE.
SO, UH, AND AN EXPLANATION OF WHY PUBLIC DISCUSSION WOULD COMPROMISE THE COUNTY'S LEGAL POSITION.
UM, AND THAT IS, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, BACK TO THE WHAT DOES THE PUBLIC DESERVE? UH, CAN IT, CAN WE LOSE BY HAVING MORE TRANSPARENCY AND HAVING THEM UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS WE WOULD DO THAT.
UM, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I'VE QUOTED A FOIA COUNSEL, UH, PENDING FROM 2007, WHICH SAID, LEGAL MATTERS EXEMPTION WOULD NOT ALLOW A CLOSED MEETING TO BE HELD TO DISCUSS GENERAL POLICY OR OTHER MATTERS THAT MAY EVENTUALLY HAVE LEGAL CONSEQUENCES.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT, IT IS MORE STRICT THAN SIMPLY, UH, WE MIGHT HAVE SOME RISK ON THE HORIZON.
THERE MIGHT BE, THERE MIGHT BE SOMEBODY THAT SUES US OVER SOMETHING THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT, UH, SUFFICIENT, UH, TO DO TO, TO, TO BRING, GO INTO CLOSE.
SO THE, IT'S VERY SPECIFIC, AND I'M JUST
[01:05:01]
SUGGESTING BRINGING INTO, INTO THE, INTO MORE OF A, A PUBLIC, UH, VIEW THE, THE SPECIFICS AS TO WHAT IS THE, THE BASIS FOR IT.AND THEN HAVING A CHANCE TO THINK ABOUT THAT BEFOREHAND, IF I MAY, MR. CHAIRMAN.
OH, I, I LIKE THE IDEA OF LESS CLOSE SESSIONS IF YOU DON'T NEED THEM, BUT, UH, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED A, A RESOLUTION TO DO THAT.
UH, MS. CALLERS HAD HAD MENTIONED THAT YOU, YOU CAN OBVIOUSLY JUST VOTE AND WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WE, WE CAN DO THAT.
WE'RE, IF YOU HAD TO HAVE 48 HOURS WRITTEN NOTICE THAT YOU WERE GONNA HAVE A CLOSED SESSION AND SOMETHING CAME UP IN A MEETING THAT CHANGED THE DYNAMIC OF IT, UH, OBVIOUSLY YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THE 48 HOURS NOTICE.
AND THEN AS FAR AS A, A WRITTEN, UH, DELIBERATION, YOU KNOW, FROM LEGAL, UH, I KNOW THAT WOULD ADD COSTING, UH, 'CAUSE YOU WRITE IT DOWN, IT'S GOTTA BE, ESPECIALLY IF ATTORNEY WRITES IT, IT'S GOTTA BE PAPERWORK.
SO IT WOULD ADD SOME, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T, THIS IS ANY ATTORNEY, IT'S NOT MR. HAM, UH, PER SE, BUT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY HAVE TO DO IT IN WRITING, UM, I DON'T MIND IF IF WE NEED A WRITTEN DELIBERATION, BUT I THINK YOU VOTE ON THAT AT THAT TIME.
YOU KNOW, SAY, HEY, WE, WE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HEARD YOU IN CLOSED SESSION, BUT WE, WE NEED SOMETHING IN WRITING OR SOMETHING.
AND THEN, UH, YOU WOULD'VE VOTED ON THAT COSTING.
UH, I, I, AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION THAT I HAD, OH, DOES THIS CON DO WE HAVE, UH, WOULD THIS RESOLUTION, UH, CONTRADICT ANY CURRENT POLICY THAT THE COUNTY HAS? IS THERE ANYTHING, DO WE HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THIS THAT ALREADY EXISTS THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE IN CONFLICT WITH, WELL, UH, ACTUALLY STATES AT THE END THAT THIS POLICY SU UH, SUPPLEMENTS AND DOES NOT REPLACE, UH, ANY REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY VIRGINIA OR FOIA OR COUNTY ATTORNEY'S PROFESSIONAL, UM, RESPONSIBILITY.
SO THAT CERTAINLY COULD BE LOOKED INTO, BUT IT'S NOT THE INTENTION.
UH, THERE'S A DEFINITELY PROVISION FOR EMERGENCIES THAT WOULD, WOULD OVERRIDE THAT.
UM, AND THEN IN REGARDS TO THE, TO THE COST OF WRITTEN A WRITTEN WORK PRODUCT, I THINK IN CERTAIN TIMES IT COULD BE AND WOULD BE, UM, THE QUESTION IS, IS, UM, YOU KNOW, IS IT, IS THE ABILITY FOR THE PUBLIC TO HAVE ACCESS TO, TO LEGAL RATIONALE BEHIND DECISIONS WE MAKE WORTH IT TO SOME POINT.
UM, I DID HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH HIM, AND, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, IT'S, THERE'S NO LEGAL LAW REVIEW JOURNAL, YOU KNOW, THAT HAS TO BE WRITTEN FOR EVERY TIME.
IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S VERY, VERY, IN FACT, IT'S EVEN WRITTEN IN HERE, UM, THAT THE WORK PART SHALL BE PROPORTIONATE TO THE SIGNIFICANCE AND COMPLEXITY OF THE MATTER.
SO IT'S, IT'S, THERE ARE CERTAINLY ALREADY WORK GOING ON AND, AND PROBABLY, UH, UH, A DICTATION, YOU KNOW, IN A LOT OF CASES WOULD BE SUFFICIENT AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO, UM, REALLY, THAT, THAT PART IS SOMETHING THAT IS, IT GIVES BOARD MEMBERS ACCESS TO THAT, TO THAT LEGAL WORK PRODUCT SO THAT WE HAVE, UH, KNOWLEDGE OF IT BEFOREHAND, UM, AND, AND NOT PRIMARILY IN A VERBAL SETTING.
AND THAT THE PUBLIC HAS ACCESS TO THAT REASONING.
AND THAT IS, I THINK, WHERE THE, THE, THE PUBLIC ACCESS IS REALLY WHAT TRANSPARENCY IS, IS AT THE ROOT OF THE TRANSPARENCY.
UM, WELL, I'LL SAY, I, I, I FOR ONE, WOULD WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE, UM, ABSOLUTELY STAYING WITHIN FOIA LAW, UH, STATE LAW AND NOT GOING INTO CLOSED SESSION, UH, IN ANY, UH, EVENT OR SITUATION THAT'S NOT JUSTIFIED.
UM, AND HAVING GUIDELINES FOR THAT MAKES, MAKES SENSE.
UM, I KNOW THAT THERE'S DISAGREEMENT THOUGH SOMETIMES BETWEEN, UM, A GIVEN SUPERVISOR OR TWO OR THREE IN THE, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY.
AND SO WE HAVE HAD TIMES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE VOTED AGAINST CLOSED SESSION.
UM, AND, UH, HAVING A BIT OF A, A GATEKEEPING SYSTEM THAT, THAT MAKES MORE OBJECTIVE MIGHT, MIGHT BE HELPFUL.
UM, I KNOW IN YOUR ANALYSIS, YOU'VE GOT A COUPLE EXAMPLES, UH, WHERE, UH, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE CLOSED SESSION WAS INAPPROPRIATE, AND, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR HE, HE'S NOT HERE TONIGHT, OBVIOUSLY, BUT I'D LIKE TO HEAR, UM, THOSE SPECIFIC SITUATIONS EXPLAINED FROM THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S POINT OF VIEW.
AND, UM, UM, OTHER THAN THAT, THE, AS TO THE WRITTEN WORK PRODUCT, UH, THERE'S DEFINITELY PROS AND CONS.
I, I THINK OFTEN IT, IT IS HELPFUL TO GET THAT, UM, SOME OF THE CONS HAVE BEEN BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION ARE POTENTIAL FOR LEAKS, UM, UH, AND, UH, TAKING AWAY THE BACK AND FORTH ASPECT OF A CONVERSATION.
[01:10:01]
THINGS.UH, IT, I THINK IT, IT ALMOST DEPENDS ON THE, ON THE SITUATION.
UM, UH, BUT I THINK THAT THERE'S, THERE'S DEFINITELY ROOM FOR, FOR SOME SORT OF GUIDELINE AND WHETHER IT'S A, A RESOLUTION OR IF IT'S JUST ADDED TO OUR MEETING POLICIES THAT WE DEFINE EACH CYCLE, UH, UM, TO HELP CREATE TRANSPARENCY EVEN AROUND HOW WE DECIDE.
UH, SO THE PUBLIC'S AWARE AND, UH, I, I THINK NONE OF US WANT TO BE IN, IN CLOSED SESSIONS UNNECESSARILY.
I AGREE WITH MS. CU THAT CERTAIN THINGS LIKE THE EDA TOPIC, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S BEEN LOTS OF THINGS THAT ABSOLUTELY HAD TO BE IN CLOSED SESSION.
UM, AND, UH, SO I'M HAPPY TO HEAR THAT THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, SPECIFIC LEGAL MATTERS, UH, WITH ACTUAL PROBABLE LITIGATION FROM A KNOWN PARTY ARE OBVIOUSLY GOING INTO CLOSED SESSIONS.
I MEAN, THERE'S, NOTHING TAKES AWAY THE LEGITIMATE, THE, THE, THE, THE NEED FOR CLOSED SESSIONS.
THEY'LL ABSOLUTELY TAKE PLACE.
SHE JUST BRINGS IT MORE INTO A PUBLIC VIEW AND GIVES MORE TIME TO, UH, DELIBERATE ON ON WHETHER YOU WANT TO SUPPORT THAT OR NOT.
UM, AND YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING THAT WOULD PUT US BACK TO STAFF ATTORNEYS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, HAVING IT'S TWO ATTORNEYS STAFF, IT'S NOT EVEN ADDRESSED AT ALL.
YEAH, IT'S NOT EVEN ADDRESSED AT ALL.
IT'S JUST A QUARTERLY REPORTING ON, ON WHAT THE BASIS OF THE MM-HMM
BREAKDOWN OF THE LEGAL COSTS HAVE BEEN.
WELL, I JUST WANTED TO INTERJECT WHEN, WHERE YOU'RE TALKING AND SAYING THAT'S AN EXORBITANT AMOUNT OF MONEY, UH, COMPARISON TO SURROUNDING COUNTIES, MAYBE SURROUNDING COUNTIES HAVEN'T HAD THE LEGAL ISSUES TO DEAL WITH, UM, DURING THIS TIME PERIOD THAT WE HAVE.
UM, SO YOU CAN'T COMPARE THAT, YOU KNOW, AND IT JUST DOESN'T, IT'S NOT A GOOD COMPARISON.
NOW, ALL THE COUNTIES WE'RE DEALING WITH THE SAME SITUATION AND, UM, COMPARABLE SIZE AND THAT KIND OF THING.
BUT, UM, I HOPE NOBODY HAS TO DEAL WITH WHAT WE'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH IN THE LAST SIX, EIGHT YEARS.
SO I, I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S A, UH, WAS A FAIR COMPARISON TO SAY WE'RE SPENDING X NUMBER OF LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY, UM, TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE THE LAWYERS KIND OF SUCKING US DRY HERE, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT THAT HE IS, AND YOU KNOW, I, I JUST, I LOOK AT HIS, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, BECAUSE WE'RE JUST TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE LAWYER THAT I HAVE DEALT WITH, UM, SINCE, AND THAT YOU HAVE, AND HE HAS A STELLAR BACKGROUND, UM, AND VERY PROUD OF HIS LEGAL HISTORY AND HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS AN ATTORNEY.
AND TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE HE HAS TAKEN US ILLEGAL INTO CLOSED SESSION IS JUST, IT'S NOT FAIR BECAUSE I DON'T THINK HE HAS, I THINK YOU, THIS IS AN INTERPRETATION OF THE, WHAT YOU CAN GO INTO CLOSED SESSION ON AND TO INSINUATE THAT HE HAS TAKEN US IN AND WHEN WE SHOULDN'T HAVE IS JUST NOT RIGHT.
LET ME, LET ME, HE'S TRYING TO PROTECT OUR BEST INTEREST WITH HIS EXPERTISE.
AND I DON'T KNOW, DID YOU GET HIS INVOLVEMENT IN THIS AT ALL? OR IS THIS LIKE THE WELL ORDINANCE THAT YOU DIDN'T INCLUDE THE PLANNING COMMISSION ON EITHER OR THE PLANNING STAFF? WELL, I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T ASK HIM TO DO THIS.
THIS IS A, NO, THIS IS A POLICY THAT WOULD EXERT A MORE OVERSIGHT OVER HIM.
UM, BUT IT'S ALL TO DO WITH LEGAL, AND YOU HAVE NO LEGAL BACKGROUND.
I DID NOT SAY THE COSTS WERE EXORBITANT.
AND I THINK YOU'RE USING A LOT OF PROJECTION AND MAKING INFERENCE AND SAYING THAT I'M INFERRING, UH, I JUST MENTIONED WHAT THE COST WAS AND THAT THE PER CAPITA COSTS, UH, ARE SIGNIFICANT COMPARISON.
THEY'RE TOO SIGNIFICANT TO OTHER COUNTIES.
SO I'M JUST MAKING A REFERENCE AS WHY'S THAT'S NOTHING LIKE EXORBITANT YOU, YOU PROJECT ONTO ME TERMS THAT, THAT ARE NOT PART BY THE PART OF THIS CONVERSATION.
UM, I, I, I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S MY INTERPRETATION OF WHAT YOU SAID, AND I'M, YOUR INTERPRETATIONS ARE TO, TO SAY EXORBITANT WHEN I JUST MENTIONED A NUMBER.
I MEAN, I, I WOULD SAY THAT, UH, COSTING WISE, OH, BECAUSE WE'RE A SMALL, SMALL, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COST, BY THE WAY.
NO, BUT WE WERE DISCUSSING COSTING $400,000 A LOT OF MONEY, AND PER CAPITA, PER CAPITA COST SEEMED HIGH.
AS A SMALL COUNTY AS FAR AS LAND MASS AND POPULATION, OH, WE'RE GONNA SUFFER A LITTLE BIT PER CAPITA IN COMPARISON TO THE BIGGER COUNTY.
SO SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, IF, IF WE'VE GOT 24 MEETINGS A YEAR THAT WE NEED LEGAL, AND WINCHESTER HAS 24 MEETINGS A YEAR THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE LEGAL, THAT MIGHT COST EXACTLY THE SAME, BUT, BUT A PER CAPITA COST.
[01:15:01]
'CAUSE YOU KNOW, FREDERICK COUNTY'S A BIGGER LANDMAN.WE, WE, AND, UH, IN, IN FAIRNESS, OH, WE SUFFER AS BEING A SMALL COMMUNITY THAT WAY, THAT WE DO A LOT OF THINGS.
WE, WE JUST, WE'RE GONNA INHERIT A HIGHER PER CAPITA COST.
AND IT'S NOT REALLY ANYBODY'S FAULT, IT'S JUST KIND OF THE WAY IT IS.
UH, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK JUST A, A QUARTERLY REPORT, UM, ON A DEPARTMENT LIKE THAT IS SIMPLY REASONABLE.
I DON'T THINK IT'S ANY KIND OF INSULT.
I MEAN, I, I DO THINK IT'S, IT'S WITHIN BOUNDS FOR US TO MAKE A, A POLICY ABOUT, UH, HOW WE WANT TO WORK WITH, WITH THE ATTORNEY, BECAUSE, UH, HE WORKS FOR THE PEOPLE AND, AND WE REPRESENT THE PEOPLE AND WE WORK FOR THE PEOPLE.
AND, UH, UH, IT'S, I THINK IT'S WITHIN OUR RIGHT TO PUT SOME, EXERT SOME INFLUENCE ON THE SCOPE OF, OF SERVICES.
BUT, BUT REALLY IT'S MORE ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE AT THIS DEAS IS, UH, COMFORTABLE THAT WE ARE WELL WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF VIRGINIA FOIA LAW, UH, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY WE'RE GETTING ADVICE, BUT WE'RE THE ONES THAT ARE ACCOUNTABLE, UM, FOR THE COUNTY FOLLOWING, UH, THE LAW TO THE LETTER.
UM, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THREE DIFFERENT THINGS IN HERE.
ONE, ONE BEING THE FOIA DECISION TREE, UH, ONE BEING THE WRITTEN WORK PRODUCT AND ONE BEING THE QUARTERLY REPORT.
AND MAYBE THOSE NEED TO BE BROKEN OUT BECAUSE I, I COULD SEE, I COULD SEE, UH, SUPPORT, UH, OR CONSENSUS COMING AROUND SOME OF THAT MORE EASILY THAN THE REST OF IT.
BUT, UH, UM, I THINK, I THINK EVERYBODY HERE WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE PROPER LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY, UM, WHILE MAINTAINING OUR ABILITY TO WORK, UH, EFFECTIVELY ON SENSITIVE LEGAL MATTERS AND, AND NOT TIP OUR HANDS, AS YOU MENTIONED.
SO IT'S, UH, IT, IT'S COMPLICATED, BUT THERE'S, YEAH.
AND I JUST WANNA UNDER UNDERSCORE THAT W WHAT THIS IS, THE, THE WRITTEN WORK PRODUCT THING IS PRINCIPALLY CONCERNING REGULATIONS, ORDINANCES, THINGS THAT ARE, ARE GONNA IMPACT COUNTYWIDE.
AND, YOU KNOW, IT, IT JUST SEEMS ENTIRELY REASONABLE WHEN YOU'RE PAYING FOR LEGAL SERVICES TO GET A WORK PRODUCT THAT YOU CAN BASE YOUR DECISION ON.
AND THAT MAY LEAD TO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
UH, THOSE CAN BE DONE VERBALLY.
UH, THAT MAY LEAD TO A CLOSE SESSION FOR SPECIFIC THINGS.
I MEAN, UM, BUT THE PUBLIC ACCESS TO THE LEGAL PRODUCT, THE, THE PUBLIC IS PAYING FOR IT.
WE ARE BEING ADVISED WITH LEGAL ADVICE, AND THE PUBLIC IS ENTITLED, AS LONG AS IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS IT IS NOT CONFIDENTIAL, UM, IT'S ENTITLED TO THAT INFORMATION THAT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M ADVOCATING FOR.
SO WHEN A, WHEN A REGULATION COMES UP, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THE, UH, CONSTITUENT SAYS, WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR THAT? AND MY ANSWER IS, WELL, BECAUSE OUR ATTORNEY SAID, UH, WE HAD TO DO IT, UH, AND WE HAPPENED TO BE IN CLOSE SESSION THEN, AND, AND, UH, AND HE SAYS, WELL, WHAT'S THE REGIONAL, WHAT'S THE LEGAL BASIS FOR THAT? THEN I, THEN I WOULD SAY, WELL, UM, HE DID GIVE US A STATUTE, BUT, BUT IT WAS A VERBAL PRESENTATION.
I'M, I'M JUST NOT, I DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION, NOR DO I HAVE IT TO BE ABLE TO RESEARCH PRIOR TO GOING IN THERE.
UH, AND IT GO, IT FLIPS THE OTHER WAY.
IF A, IF A CONSTITUENT SAYS, WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR THAT REGULATION? UM, I NEED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE LEGAL WORK PRODUCT THAT THE CONSTITUENT PAID FOR, THAT.
THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THIS IS COMING FROM.
ANY OTHER CONVERSATION ON THIS? OR QUESTIONS FOR ANY? OKAY.
[D. Industrial Scale Ground Water Protection Discussion ]
ITEM ON THE AGENDA, UM, IS THE, UH, INDUSTRIAL SCALE GROUNDWATER PROTECTION DISCUSSION.UM, MR. JAMESON, DO YOU WANNA LEAD OFF ON THAT? SURE.
UM, I JUST, I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF THERE'S ANY NEXT STEPS.
UM, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF INDUSTRIAL REZONINGS COMING UP AND, UM, AND I'VE BEEN FROM, FROM, FROM THE TIME I WAS RUNNING FOR OFFICE TELLING PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, I SEE THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, I SEE OUR INDUSTRIAL CORRIDOR.
UM, AND RIGHT OFF THE BAT THERE WERE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THAT HAD A LOT OF CONSTERNATION ABOUT ONE OF THE REZONINGS.
AND, UM, I JUST, I SEE IT THERE.
I SEE IT IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
I KNOW IT'S BEEN THERE A LONG TIME.
UM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE A, A GROUNDWATER ISSUE.
SO THERE ARE, ARE ARE GONNA BE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, ON ALL SIDES OF THIS.
AND, UM, I AM NOT CHANGING WHAT I THINK ABOUT THE NECESSITY OF MOVING FORWARD WITH THE REZONING OF OUR INDUSTRIAL CORRIDOR.
[01:20:01]
ABOUT PROTECTING THE GROUNDWATER.SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I I, YOU, YOU KNOW, BROUGHT UP SOME THINGS ABOUT UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE WORD PROHIBITION, AND MAYBE IT JUST, ARE WE GOING TO DO, DO, IS THERE INTEREST OF THE BOARD TO KEEP THIS GOING AND, AND FIND A NEXT STEP OR, OR, OR, OR NOT? I THINK THAT'S JUST, IT'S JUST TIME.
YOU KNOW, LET'S JUST DECIDE IF WE'RE GOING TO DO IT.
WE ARE LACKING, UH, A STATUTORY ANALYSIS.
AND AGAIN, THAT'S PART, PART OF THE, OF THE, OF THE, UH, MOTIVATION BEHIND THE, UH, LEGAL TRANSPARENCY THING IS 'CAUSE I THINK THE PUBLIC IS ENTITLED TO KNOW WHAT OUR STAT, WHAT OUR, OUR LEGAL BASIS IS FOR EITHER DOING OR NOT DOING SOMETHING.
UM, I DON'T THINK THAT WE NEED TO CLOSE, YOU KNOW, DISCUSS IT IN CLOSED SESSION THEN TO COME OUT AND SAID, OUR ATTORNEY SAID WE CAN'T DO IT.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF THE, THE SITUATION I'M TRYING TO AVOID.
UM, SO ANYWAY, OPEN DISCUSSION.
DO WE WANNA, ARE THERE NEXT STEPS? ARE WE GOING TO TRY TO ADVANCE THIS INITIATIVE OR NOT? THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO BE.
OH, THE, UH, I DO NOT SUPPORT THE IDEA OF SOMEONE GOING INTO COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL ZONE OUT ON 5 22 AND DRILLING A WELL, A SYSTEM OF WELLS TO DRILL TENS OF THOUSANDS A GALLON OF WATER TODAY.
I MEAN, THAT, THAT WOULD BE BAD FOR OUR SYSTEM.
BUT READING THROUGH THIS, AND SOME OF MY UNDERSTANDING OF SOME OF THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT RULES, I THINK YOU GO BACK, UH, WITH PLANNING AND YOU ATTACK IT MORE FROM A ZONING, IN OTHER WORDS, UH, NO PUN INTENDED, BUT I DON'T THINK THE, THE, THE WELL ORDINANCE AWAY, IT WILL HOLD WATER.
BUT I THINK YOU CAN GO BACK ALL AND SAY, HEY, ANY INDUSTRIAL IN THE CORRIDOR HAS TO USE MUNICIPALITY SERVICES, AND THEN THEY WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO DRILL A WELL DOWN.
AND THEN OH, AND IF YOU, AND FOR SOME REASON THAT YOU GOT, OH, AND, AND THEN THE OTHER THING THAT I THINK THE, OH, I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITH THE, YOU KNOW, WITH YOUR DEFINITION AN INDUSTRIAL WELL, WHICH YOU'RE WE'RE REALIZING THAT IT'S NOT RESIDENTIAL OR NOT AG, SO IT'S, IT'S FOR BUSINESS.
SO WE'RE JUST, SO WE'RE JUST CLASSIFY IT AS INDUSTRIAL, BUT OH, THAT WOULD INCLUDE THE FIRE STATIONS, THAT WOULD INCLUDE THE AIRPORT, THAT WOULD INCLUDE ALL THE LITTLE COUNTRY STORES.
AND EVEN IF THEY'RE GRANDFATHERED IN AND, AND WE DON'T INFLICT ANYTHING ON THE ORIGINAL ORDINANCE, SHOWED SOME STUFF THAT THEY NEEDED TO DO.
AND I, I'M PRETTY SURE WE WOULD GET SOME MAJOR KICKBACK FROM THAT.
OH, DEPENDING ON THE EXPENDITURE TOO.
SOME OF THE REAL SMALL BUSINESSES COULD BE VERY DAMAGING TOO.
SO I THINK YOU COULD GO BACK ALL, 'CAUSE I DID RESEARCH THE, UH, OUR INDUSTRIAL ZONES AND I, I SHOULD HAVE, I DON'T KNOW WHY I DIDN'T PRINT A COPY OF THAT OFF ME MY OWN, BUT IT, BUT IT DOES, THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, ALL PUBLIC, PRIVATE, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO GET THE WATER IS ALLOWABLE.
AND THEN THAT WAS FOR COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL.
AND THEN I WENT BACK AND CHECKED THE, UH, OVERLAY DISTRICT TO SEE IF WE HAD PROHIBITED, UH, PRIVATE WELL USE FOR COMMERCIAL OR, YOU KNOW, JUST IN THE OVERLAY.
'CAUSE THAT, THAT'D BE OBVIOUSLY THE BIGGEST IMPACT TO THERE.
'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE BIG INDUSTRIAL'S GOING.
AND WE DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE IT IN THERE EITHER.
SO, UH, I WOULD SUPPORT MAYBE, UH, AND I DISCUSSED THIS, YOU KNOW, IF OUR, IF OUR BULLET POINT IS TO BE SURE WE DON'T HAVE A WATER HOG INDUSTRY MOVE INTO OUR INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT AND ABUSE OUR GROUNDWATER, IF THAT IS THE TARGET, I'M VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF IT.
BUT I THINK FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT AND FROM GOOD ZONING PRACTICE, I THINK WE SEND IT BACK TO PLANNING.
AND I, I'D BE VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF THAT.
I'D, I'D WORK WITH PLANNING STAFF WITH A LITTLE BIT OF KNOWLEDGE THAT, THAT I COULD GIVE THEM IF IT WOULD HELP ANY.
BUT I, I THINK YOU CAN MAKE IT SAY, HEY, YOU'RE NOT GONNA, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE INDUSTRIAL.
AND THEN THE OTHER THING TOO IS IF IT, IF IT'S NOT ALLOWABLE, IF WE DID WANT TO SAY SOMEBODY, SAY SOMEBODY COME IN THE INDUSTRIAL AND WE'RE GONNA BUILD THIS BIG BUILDING AND IT'S, IT'S GONNA BE A LOW ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT AND IT'S GONNA BE A GREAT TAX RENEWAL, BUT WE'RE ONLY GONNA HAVE FOUR EMPLOYEES.
AND IT'S SO COST PROHIBITIVE BECAUSE THEY'RE 3000 FEET OFF OF 5 22 TOO.
IF IT'S NOT, IF PRIVATE WELL USE IS NOT ALLOWABLE AND THEN WE GO BACK AND DO IT BY THE CUP PROCESS, THEN YOU COULD RESTRICT THE TYPE OF WELL, AND THE AMOUNT OF WATER THEY COULD USE.
'CAUSE I'M PRETTY SURE WE'D HAVE TO DOUBLE CHECK ALL THIS WITH LEGAL AND, AND PLANNING PROFESSIONALS.
BUT I, I, I, I, I, I, WE GOT SOME TOOLS THAT WE CAN USE TO, TO GET IT DONE THAT I, THAT I THINK WILL, WILL FIT BETTER AND WE'LL GET LESS, UH, LESS NEGATIVE KICKBACK FROM THE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS IN THE COMMUNITY.
'CAUSE I DID GET A, A PRETTY GOOD, UH, COUPLE PRETTY SERIOUS PHONE CALLS.
IT'S LIKE, HEY, I DON'T THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA.
AND, UH, BUT WHEN I TOLD 'EM IF THE TARGET WAS JUST THE BIG INDUSTRIAL ZONES OUT IN THE CORRIDOR, THEY WEREN'T SO AGAINST
[01:25:01]
IT.SO, UH, I THINK THE GENERAL IDEA OF RESTRICTING HIGH WATER USAGE IN THE INDUSTRIAL IS FAIR, BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO IT.
UH, I KNOW YOU WORK VERY HARD ON THAT, AND I'M NOT KNOCKING YOU.
I MEAN, YOU'VE, YOU'VE ESTABLISHED WHAT THE GOAL IS AND I, AND THAT IS THE GOAL.
I, SO I THINK, I THINK, AND ALSO WHEN, WHEN I VERY FIRST PRESENTED IT, I SAID, YOU KNOW, HERE IT IS FOR DISCUSSION.
AND IT GOT BASICALLY RAN INTO A WALL.
WELL, BECAUSE, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST LIKE, WELL, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
IF, IF WOULD ALL THE THINGS YOU SAID AND THAT TRACK OF OF DEVELOPMENT, THAT'S FINE.
I MEAN IT, SO, UM, I GUESS ADMINISTRATIVELY WE CAN KIND OF FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO NEXT.
I, I, I THINK WE, I THINK WE WOULD DO IT FROM THAT ZONING PERSPECTIVE AND WHERE IT'S GOT THAT LINES WHERE IT CAN BE PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, AND WHERE YOU SWITCH IT TO WHERE IT'S JUST PUBLIC.
JUST, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN WATER SOURCE.
AND THEN, UH, LIKE I SAY, WE GOTTA CHECK WHAT THE LEGAL RULES ARE, MAKE SURE IT'S NOT SOME STATE THING.
WE, WE CAN START IT THERE AND, UH, AND, AND GET OUR, AND GET OUR PLANNING STAFF TO WORK ON IT.
NOT, AND THEY'LL DO US A GOOD JOB.
THEY'LL, THEY'LL, THEY'LL WORK THROUGH ALL THE, THE BUMPS IN THE ROAD AND MAYBE THEY CAN GET US A PROJECT, UH, PRODUCT THAT WE WON'T HAVE TO WORK SO HARD ON.
YOU KNOW, WE CAN, WE CAN JUST FINE TUNE IT.
I, I'LL SAY I'M BOTH AND ON THIS, I, I LIKE YOUR IDEA, MR. HENRY, OF WORKING WITH PLANNING TO SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING WE CAN DO THERE.
UM, AND, UH, THAT SAID, I ALSO THINK MR. JAMESON'S, UH, UH, PROPOSAL, UH, HAS NOT BEEN, UH, FAIRLY, UH, GIVEN A FAIR HEARING YET, AND, AND NEEDS TO BE, UH, A GONE THROUGH A, UH, A FULL LEGAL REVIEW AND, AND THEN WHATEVER DEFICIENCIES ARE THERE, UH, WE NEED TO DISCUSS THOSE AS, UH, AS WELL AS THE CONCERNS THAT, THAT SOME LIKE MR. HENRY HAVE ABOUT THE COUNTRY STORE AND SO FORTH.
UH, WE DON'T WANT TO OVERSHOOT THE MARK.
UH, WE WANT IT TO BE AT THE RIGHT THRESHOLD.
BUT IF, UM, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER WE CAN DO, I THINK TO, TO PROTECT OUR, OUR GROUNDWATER AND TO PROTECT OUR, OUR CITIZENS' WELLS FROM DRYING OUT, UM, ESPECIALLY WITH PERENNIAL DROUGHTS, I, I THINK IS, IT'S, IT'S GOOD TO WORK ON.
UM, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I I ALSO WANT TO SEE, UH, THE INDUSTRIAL CORRIDOR, UH, PROPERLY ZONED AND TO BRING IN THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THAT WE SO DESPERATELY NEED.
UM, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO PROTECT OUR WATER.
UH, AND WE CAN'T, WE CANNOT, UH, TO USE THE TERM WATER HOG, WE CAN'T HAVE A WATER HOG COME IN THERE, UH, AND, AND USE GROUNDWATER.
IT'S GOTTA BE, UH, IT'S GOTTA BE FROM THE TOWN WATER.
SO THERE'S ONE OTHER IF I'M, I'M SORRY.
I ACTUALLY ASKED FOR MRS. WICK'S PRESENTATION TO BE, UH, ON THE AGENDA.
AND, AND ONE OF THE, I THINK OF OUTCOMES OF HER PRESENTATION IS THAT, UM, UH, TO PUT IT SIMPLY, UH, THERE ISN'T WATER THERE.
UM, AND IF, IF A, AN ORGANIZATION, UH, WAS TO BANK ON, YOU KNOW, BUILDING A FACILITY AND PLANNING ON PLUNKING A A WELL IN THERE AND GETTING A 40 OR 50,000 GALLON A DAY, WELL, THEY'D BE, THEY'D BE, UH, WELL ADVISED TO ASK MS. ICK, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEIR PROSPECTS WERE.
UM, SO THAT KIND OF, I THINK WAS RELEVANT, UM, THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THESE MAPS, UH, THAT, THAT SHE PROVIDED, UH, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S REALLY, IT'S REALLY, UH, IT'S JUST NOT THERE.
THERE, THERE IS A HUGE AQUIFER IN ROCKLAND, AND IT'S BY THE COURT, A GOLF COURSE.
I, UH, OH, MR. RUN INDICATED TO ME, I, IT WAS A HUNDRED THOUSAND A DAY IN THAT GOLF COURSE, AND YOU CAN SEE IT RIGHT THERE.
AND HE ACTUALLY SOLD WATER TO, UH, CLARK COUNTY AT ONE TIME WHEN THEY NEEDED SOME WATER FOR SOMETHING.
SO IT'S NOT TOO FAR AWAY ALL IT'S OUTSIDE THE CORRIDOR, BUT YEAH, YOU CAN SEE IT RIGHT THERE.
WHICH PAGE ARE YOU ON IN THAT? UH, IT'S ON, UM, FIVE OF 15.
WELL, I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE.
WATER, UM, IS A RESOURCE THAT WE ALL TAKE FOR GRANTED UNTIL WE DON'T HAVE IT, AND WE NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT IT MUCH MORE THAN WHAT WE DO.
I, I GUESS MY PROXIMITY, YOU KNOW, TO THE, TO THE RIVER, I SEE IT, I SEE IT GO UP AND I SEE IT GO DOWN MUCH MORE THAN I SEE IT GO UP ANYMORE.
AND I THINK WE ALL FORGET TOO, WE'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES THAT PULL OUT OF THE RIVER.
SO ANY INDUSTRY WE HAVE HERE, WHEN WE PULL OUT FOR IT, IT AFFECTS CLARK COUNTY AND ON DOWN THE RIVER.
BUT WE FORGET THERE'S A LOT OF INDUSTRY UPRIVER FROM US THAT IS PULLING OUT AS
[01:30:01]
WELL.AND WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER WHAT INDUSTRIES THEY BRING IN.
SO THE CAUSE AND EFFECT, UM, IS GONNA BE THERE FOR US NO MATTER WHAT WE BRING INTO WARREN COUNTY.
AND THAT'S WHY I GO TO A LOT OF PLANNING THINGS.
AND, UM, WHEN I HEAR THEM IN PAGE COUNTY OR EVEN UP FURTHER FROM PAGE COUNTY, I PAY ATTENTION TO 'EM BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S GONNA AFFECT OUR WATER HERE.
AND, UM, I, I JUST THINK WE ALL NEED TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE COGNITIVE OF TAKING A SHOWER AND LETTING IT JUST RUN AND RUN AND RUN, WHETHER YOU'RE ON WELL, WATER, TOWN WATER.
UM, AND I'M BAD ABOUT THAT TOO.
YOU KNOW, YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH AND THE WATER'S RUNNING THE WHOLE TIME.
I'VE GOTTEN MUCH BETTER ABOUT THINKING ABOUT THAT.
I DON'T NEED TO LET THE WATER RUN WHILE I'M DOING THE ACTUAL BRUSHING, BUT WE ALL NEED TO BE COGNITIVE OF IT AND, YOU KNOW, SO I WANNA PROTECT THE WATERWAYS AS MUCH AS ANYBODY.
BUT I, I, LIKE I SAID, I, I DO APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK YOU'VE DONE WITH THIS, BUT ALL GOOD INTENTIONS.
YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES THERE, THOSE UNFORESEEN CONSEQUENCES BITE YOU, AND THAT'S THE ONLY THING I'M CONCERNED ABOUT.
SO SENDING IT BACK TO, UM, TO PLANNING AND LOOKING AT MAKING SURE THAT WE'VE GOT IT SIMILAR TO WHAT THE TOWN DID THAT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IS OUT THERE INDUSTRIAL, UM, HAS TO HOOK ONTO THE TOWN WATER, AND EVEN THAT TO, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN'S GONNA LOOK AT THAT AND SEE WHAT THEIR CAPACITY IS, AND THAT'S GONNA PLAY A PART IN WHETHER THEY APPROVE IT OR THEY DON'T APPROVE IT BECAUSE OF THEIR CAPACITY TO SUPPLY IT.
SO, UM, I THINK THERE'S BETTER WAYS OF DOING IT THAT WON'T HAVE SO MANY UNFORESEEN CONSEQUENCES THAT WE'RE NOT SURE OF AT THIS POINT.
ONE THING I WANTED TO ADD, UH, JUST IN TERMS OF THE, THE PROPOSAL, THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE, UM, THE, UH, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY HAS GIVEN ME A, A VERBAL RUNDOWN ON, ON WHAT SOME OF HIS CONCERNS ARE.
UH, BUT HE'S NOT GIVEN ALL THAT TO ALL OF US, UH, SIMULTANEOUSLY OR, OR VERBATIM THE SAME.
AND THAT'S A BIT OF A CONCERN.
UM, AND PART OF THAT, THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT WE VOTED NOT TO GO INTO CLOSED SESSION ABOUT THIS BECAUSE WE HAD DISAGREEMENT ON THIS BOARD AS TO WHETHER THIS RISE, UH, RISES TO THE CRITERIA FOR A CLOSED SESSION UNDER FOIA.
UM, BUT, UH, TH THIS GOES TO THE IDEA MAY, UH, MAYBE OF, UM, IN ONE THIS WOULD BE A CASE I THINK WHERE A, A WRITTEN WORK PRODUCT WOULD HELP.
UM, OR, UH, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT THOUGH.
I, I AM CONCERNED ENOUGH ABOUT THE WATER THAT, THAT, UH, I WOULD BE WILLING TO GO TO CLOSE SESSION TO HEAR SO WE ALL GET THE SAME, UH, INFORMATION AND, AND, UH, CAN DISCUSS THIS FURTHER.
UH, I WAS NOT WILLING BEFORE, BUT I WOULD BE WILLING TO, UM, IF THAT WOULD HELP, UH, UH, GET THIS MOVING AGAIN IF, YOU KNOW, I, I AGREE IT, IT NEEDS WORK, BUT, UH, IT WOULD BE A SHAME IF SOMETHING THAT NEEDS WORK BUT HAS POTENTIAL WOULD DIE ON THE VINE BECAUSE WE'RE SQUABBLING SO WELL, I I'M NOT OPPOSED TO GOING TO CLOSED SESSION FOR IT.
I MEAN, IF IT, WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S THE MAT, THE, THERE'S THE DETAILS, WHICH I'VE BROUGHT UP.
AND SO, UH, AND THERE'S THE CITATION OF THE FOIA COUNCIL.
I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S WHY CAN'T THE PUBLIC KNOW? NO, UNLESS YOU'RE, YOU'RE RIGHT.
WHY WOULDN'T THEY KNOW? IT'S, IT'S, THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE AFFECTED.
WELL, THERE, UNLESS YOU'RE GOING, UNLESS YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF LITIGATION STRATEGY, I DO.
I DO HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF LITIGATION STRATEGY.
WELL, THAT, THAT HAS TO BE, THAT HAS TO BE, THAT HAS TO BE THEIR REASON GIVEN.
SEE, THAT'S WHY YOU CAN DO A CLOSED SESSION AND THAT I DON'T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THAT.
SO I COULD, I COULD SUPPORT THAT AS A CLOSED SESSION ITEM.
AND, AND WHICH, WHICH IS THE, UH, IN FOREST AS WATER GOES, AS OUR COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL, I STILL PUSH THAT IDEA FROM A PLANNING SIDE THAT WE NEED TO FIND A REDUNDANT MORTAR SOURCE.
I DID HEAR A LITTLE BIRD TELL ME THAT SOMEONE FROM THE TOWN WAS OUT TO RIVERTON.
UH, IF THEY BEAT US TO IT, THAT'S FINE, AS LONG AS SOMEBODY DOES IT.
AND, AND MAYBE I DIDN'T MENTION THAT BEFORE THAT OH, I DIDN'T WANT THE COUNTY TO GO INTO WATER BUSINESS TO COMPETE WITH THE TOWN OF FRONT OIL, BUT I JUST WANTED US TO HAVE, AS A COMMUNITY, TO HAVE A REDUNDANT WATER SOURCE FOR TOWN AND COUNTY.
SO BY ALL MEANS, IF, UH, IF THE TOWN CAN USE, USE THAT IDEA, AND, AND, AND I DOUBT I WAS THE ORIGINATOR OF IT.
I'M, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE HAD THAT IDEA.
'CAUSE USING QUARRIES FOR, UH, REDUNDANT WATER SOURCES IS COMMON ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.
[01:35:01]
I'M SURE.SO, UM, BUT I DID HEAR THAT THEY, UH, SOMEONE FROM THE TOWN HAD REACHED OUT TO, UH, STAFF AT RIVERTON TO, AT AT LEAST TO GET A, YOU KNOW, SOME KIND OF DISCUSSION GOING.
SO, UM, I HOPE THAT SOMEBODY DOES IT, YOU KNOW? YEAH, I AGREE.
THIS IS ONE CASE WHERE A RISING TIDE LIFTS ALL VOTES, RIGHT? WE, WE, WE WANT THAT OPTION FOR THE OVERALL COMMUNITY.
WE'RE ALL TOGETHER IN THIS WATER ISSUE.
UH, THERE WAS, UM, MRS. OS AND I WENT TO FREDERICK COUNTY.
UM, WE HAD TO GET PERMISSION FROM THE FREDERICK COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, ACTUALLY TO TALK TO THE FREDERICK WATER AUTHORITY.
UM, FREDERICK WATER AUTHORITY HAS A PIPELINE THAT CONNECTS WITH BERKELEY, WEST VIRGINIA, UM, WHERE IT'S AN EMERGENCY.
IF SOMETHING HAPPENS, YOU CAN SWITCH THIS, UH, SWITCH.
AND IF FREDERICK COUNTY NEEDS WATER BECAUSE OF AN ISSUE, BERKELEY CAN SUPPLY IT AND VICE VERSA.
AND, UM, FREDERICK COUNTY AT THAT TIME WAS LOOKING TO BRING THE WATER LINE DOWN TO THE CLARK COUNTY LINE THERE ON, UM, 3 45 22.
SO THE DISCUSSION WAS HOW MUCH IN THE FEASIBILITY OF BRINGING IT DOWN TO, UM, TO FAMILY DOLLAR AND JUST HAVING AN EMERGENCY BACKUP THAT YOU WOULD HOPEFULLY NEVER HAVE TO USE, UM, JUST NEVER GOT OFF A CONVERSATION.
BUT, AND THAT TOO WAS NOT TO COMPETE WITH FRONT ROYALS WATER, BUT AN EMERGENCY BACKUP.
IT'S, IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE REDUNDANCY.
AND, UH, WHERE, WHERE DID THE, THE BERKELEY, UH, WATER, IS THAT FROM THE POTOMAC RIVER, OR WHERE DID THEY GET THAT? HONESTLY, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEIRS CAME FROM.
UM, I JUST KNOW THAT IT'S, THAT IT'S THERE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'VE EVEN HAD TO USE IT, BUT IT'S MM-HMM
THEY DID A COOPERATIVE THING THAT HOPEFULLY THEY DON'T HAVE TO USE IT, BUT IF THEY DO, AND HOPEFULLY IF THEY DO HAVE TO USE IT, IT YEAH.
THAT IT'S SET THERE AND IT WILL WORK.
I KNOW THEY'RE HAVING, UM, PROBLEMS, UM, WITH THEIR STEVENSON, UH, WATER PLANT THAT, UM, CARGILL, WHATEVER THE QUARRY OWNER GAVE THEM, UM, THE QUARRY THAT THEY WERE FINISHED USING FOR, UH, WATER SUPPLY.
SOMETHING'S HAPPENED WITH THE FILTER AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET WATER OUT OF IT.
UM, I TALKED TO, UM, MR. TIBS, THE, UH, DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR OVER THE WEEKEND AND ASKED HIM WHERE THEY WERE WITH THAT, AND IT'S STILL A WORK IN PROGRESS.
IT'S, UM, IT'S GONNA BE A BIG DOLLAR FIXED TO GET THAT THING GOING.
BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU GET THINGS IN PLACE, UH, A LOT OF TIMES AND THEY JUST DON'T QUITE WORK OUT THE WAY YOU THOUGHT THEY WOULD.
UH, AM I RIGHT THAT WHEN THEY HAD THE IDEA TO RUN IT TO THE CLARK WARREN COUNTY LINE, IT WAS PRETTY EXPENSIVE, EVEN BACK THEN.
I DON'T WANT TO GIVE AN EXACT NUMBER, BUT I WANNA SAY SOMEWHERE BETWEEN, AROUND $3 MILLION OKAY.
I THINK THE LAST TIME I HEARD WAS LIKE $18 MILLION.
BUT THAT WAS SIX YEARS AGO TOO, SO, OR AROUND SIX YEARS AGO.
I, I, I'M PRETTY SURE THAT'S THE NUMBER I HEARD FROM MR. DA, DR.
DALEY, BUT IT WOULD BE A BOND ISSUE IS WHAT IT WOULD BE.
TO THINK ABOUT ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS, RIGHT.
THAT OUR LAST AGENDA ITEM IS ADJOURNMENT.